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Bar Ran Dun posted:One can see the change over time in how God is thought about in the Bible and at the beginning yeah that’s not inaccurate. It’s more obvious in the original languages the word /name of God changes over time with how God was thought about, and who is writing. Where we just see the word God without any changes unless a good translation is making it obvious. you have created an appealing opening for me to ramble about a thing i enjoy and by golly im turbo-high enough to steer my posting-barque thru aforesaid opening welcome aboard, on this barque we  so. names of god in the hebrew and christian scriptures. it's a culturally convoluted knot and also the ropes are trying to bite you. they might be eels idk im not a ropeölogist. anyway looking into the names of god is like encountering a tangled gordian knotwork of eels, each bound to the others like an aquatic rat king: youre probably drowning but at least it's interesting textually, god has an individual, personal name which in modern latin alphabet renderings is yhvh, yhwh, yahweh, jehovah, etc. but the name of god is powerful. there have been varying degrees of taboo over uttering or writing it. writing it as “lord” or “the lord” is the most common in english, but it's not a new strategy—the septuagint (e.g.) does basically the same thing. it's an established convention!! different contributors have added/subtracted/altered all sorts of things in layers over the years. the use of “el shaddai” in genesis 17 and early in exodus (as the name that abraham etc knew god as)?? probably added comparatively late, to emphasize the power of god revealing his personal name to moses. the name of god is powerful. el and elohim are the real trips, tho. both are usually translated as god but...complexly. yhvh, as mentioned, is the personal name of the god of the israelites. the phrase god of the israelites is used in christianity as a synecdoche for god, the singular divine being, but it also works as a straightforward, plain-language description of yhvh in the oldest layers of the text. yhvh was the name of the national god of the israelites, treated henotheïstically or monolatrously by the text but not necessarily by the israelites the text is describing. the israelites are canaanites/phoenicians, they know and respect other gods to the degree that the text repeatedly and emphatically demands that they stop worshiping them. sometimes it's telling them that the national gods of other ethnic groups are bozos and only jerks would worship a bozo, sometimes it's night vandalism. anyway, enough about that for the moment; now i need to complain about this piece of poo poo paper. do not read this paper. it is exceedingly bad. the author seems completely unaware that ugaritic exists. he treats el as strictly a personal name but treats its ostensible plural as a common word. sorry bucko, that isnt how words roll!! el is a word that can variously refer to a god (generally) or to a specific god. like this is decently attested in both directions: we got poo poo talking about el the specific guy (not not baal); and we got the entire corpus of the language and several related languages dating all the way back to akkadians swiping the sumerian 𒀭 to write il/ilu, a word meaning god so loving hard that prepending it to a name (or even a fairly bland word, like namtar [fate, or specifically an ill fate; unrelated to the character from the early farscape ep dna mad scientist, whose name was merely ratman backward, as the character was a very large, manlike space rat]) is how you indicate a divine entity in text. i told you that el was a trip!! the upshot of this is that you need to deploy context clues really hard to figuring out if an el is referring to el the divinity, or el a divinity. thankfully, you dont have to check if it means el the idea of divinity broadly, because that's one of the ways elohim is here to vex us. elohim datasheet:
and that's enough about elohim imo. twistier than el but good gravy, check out this el action: it's uncontroversial to say that el the ugaritic top god and yhwh the natl god of the israelites became conflated, and baal the [gestures expansively] general canaanite god shares a great deal w both. all three end up marrying asherah, which just makes me think that it was generally assumed that a male pantheon head would be matched w the queen of heaven. that yahweh/asherah link is so well known that this is literally a picture from wikipedia's yahweh article (see below)  fig. 1 literally a picture from wikipedia anyway im getting sidetracked. baal famously smacks yam, the sea, around. this is loosely like babylonian natl god marduk walloping tiamat but i will argue that there is a critical distinction in how we should understand yam and tiamat that lines up along a yam/tehom line, and i will argue it so forcefully that you will quite simply lose interest in engaging my points sincerely. but check out how neatly that subdual of the sea jazz lines up w the actions concerning the sea that the god of the israelites undertakes: gates it up, sets its boundaries, etc. gives job respite from the sea (which job thought a fine medium to escape god), and really only is said to create leviathan (so far as i recall) in psalm 104, which does not and cannot count because it is a lightly-massaged egyptian prayer altered to refer to yhvh. worth noting that god moves over the face of the deep: tehom. the tiamat word!! speaking of tiamat, yhvh absorbing traits of other gods as he rose in prominence isnt some specifically predatory thing or even particular to the israelites. apropos tiamat, check out the enûma elish and watch marduk, the babylonian natl god, take any divine traits that arent nailed down or enki's long story short, it's difficult to say what el shaddai means because no one has a convincing idea of what shaddai means. the name of god still has some unrevealed power, i guess. i hope you have enjoyed my boat, and these eels
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Jul 4, 2023 04:51
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Nessus posted:I gotta admit that at a certain point when reading that I began to read it as being about the House of El, aka Superman's family on Krypton; that said, you could do worse than imagining Superman in these contexts. i mean close enough to be merely mistaken instead of wrongheaded an entirely accurate img of my posting station sinnesloeschen posted:1) hi squizzle adonai is one of my favs. while attested before, it significantly rises in prominence as a title for the god of the israelites, during the hellenized af second temple period.......when adonis-centric mystery religions would have been significant cultural presences, and would have been one popular and two eerily familiar to anyone familiar w canaanite tammuz veneration. i dont think it was an intentional “well this word is ours now so we can pretend everyone loves our god” but i do think adonis/persephone was strong influence from being a major cultural presence
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Jul 4, 2023 18:35
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another thing that baal and el have in common is their “the dude” naming strategy
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Jul 4, 2023 18:36
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Earwicker posted:with a good blender, anything can be a liquid this is my fav verse from proverbs (nrsv translation)
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Jul 5, 2023 18:11
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Keromaru5 posted:Well, if you wanted to do it Orthodox style, you could just go vegan for the day. absolutely killing my plan to fast by quaffing a tankard of wet morning beef
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Jul 5, 2023 18:50
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i put off responding to aliens so that i could grab sources to cite, and instead i had a lovely evening, went to sleep, and just woke up. suffice it to say there is prior art on this; from what i recall, there is catholic (almost certainly jesuit) writing to the effect that nothing indicates that earth is the exclusive home of life w souls and intellect; and that god may have sent an incarnate messiah to any other worlds because it's not like they would have gotten a news bulletin from the levant a couple millennia ago. the other relevant thing i recall is that there is a lot of islamic scholarship relating to space travel and aliens—the doors of ijtihad dont need to be open for folks to go out and be space opera heroes and faithful muslims. relevantly, djinn already represent a fully sapient intellect that is capable of making moral decisions and being a faithful muslim; there is little reason that similar free will and universal standards there-regarded wouldnt apply to recognizably sapient people who come from another planet, as well. as to the broad general reäction—first contact would be the most significant event in the lifetime of anyone who lived thru it. it would be the most singularly transformative cultural moment in human history. trying to figure out what the on-the-ground general response would be, religious or otherwise, is not imo particularly useful. we do not have the perspective to know what the world would be like in any first contact circumstance.
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Jul 6, 2023 15:19
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would an alien obligate carnivore have to devour the incarnate man christ, or could they simply take communion using a meaty host??
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Jul 7, 2023 16:26
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Killingyouguy! posted:fundamentally we are lonely and want there to be more guys having username/post juxtapositional concerns re: this post
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Jul 8, 2023 17:00
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as an at-times extremely high being, i
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Jul 11, 2023 12:51
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while they would be ostensibly catechistically aligned, the catholic church is massive and has complex internal poliitics. i always keep the div school's religious literacy project close to mind, and this is one of their big points:
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Jul 11, 2023 16:40
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what sorta orbs you using on these charts restrict yr orbs more, you are using orbs too broad
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Jul 21, 2023 01:40
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i pity yorbs (second person possessive orbs)
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Jul 21, 2023 01:46
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Nessus posted:I'm a Pisces with Gemini Rising, so I can't stop posting, ever. absolutely not. you cant coherently discuss religion as a broad topic w/o astrology. mul.apin on the one end, and the ongoing present on the other end, w some highlights like i think it is bardaisan who asserts that yes of fuckin course astrology is real but also free will is and must absolutely be real ergo all of the astrologically relevant bodies will be judged on judgment day for the influence they rendered on the world
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Jul 21, 2023 02:07
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catechistically speaking you do not need to first escape a wolf
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Jul 22, 2023 01:34
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“hell is one person but that person is full of wolves” dante, no exit
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Jul 22, 2023 02:27
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Prurient Squid posted:Job got me. it has one of my favorite bits of the entire tanakh is the monologue from god to job. it expresses the scope and magnitude and experiential complexity of an absolute divinity super poetically, but pointedly. and then god just straight confronts job w the reality that the answers to job's questions of god's motives—job couldnt begin to frame an understanding of god's full, complete answers in any coherent way, even if god tried to express them. job just doesnt have the capacity to comprehend the will and motive of something infinitely greater than himself. which, i mean, by definition!! but i love that “you literally cannot comprehend god” is a part of the written hebrew canon, and is one of the oldest parts of it.
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Jul 30, 2023 02:15
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NoiseAnnoys posted:translation is more art than science. when i was learning old church slavonic, we spent a lot of time translating bible verses, because those are oldest extant texts we have. and i always found it amazing how the translators had to work around various different linguistic, cultural, and material blindspots in their various translations. [pointing a firearm at you, playfully] you should talk about the slavonic enoch
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Jul 31, 2023 11:55
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NoiseAnnoys posted:2 enoch? hell yeah, that is the fun insane apocryphal book. that said, it's pretty clear it's an old church slavonic translation of a no-longer extant text from a non-slavic language (i don't remember if greek or hebrew was the most likely original language at the source, but it's all speculation unless someone has found something new since i left slavic studies). iirc, it's quite probable it was a text from a greek-speaking jewish group (perhaps in alexandria) since there was a mix of neo-platonic (the structure of the heavens, the orders of angels) with temple-era judaic philosophy and theology. middle platonism imo but i would listen to arguments that it reflects a distinct neopythagoreän influence if someone wanted to make those arguments for instance, if there exists a manuscript that starts “you have come to a neopythaworld called neopythagor [whip sound]”, you would have my attention even if not my joy
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Jul 31, 2023 17:30
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Gaius Marius posted:With Jesus there are no L's. keep reading, he takes a big one late in the story
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Aug 1, 2023 12:23
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mainstream christianity should never have gotten away from apokatastasis imo. conditionalism is incoherent garbage. and not unrelatedly, i think that book o revelation shouldve been left out of the biblical canon but shepherd of hermas should have been included
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Aug 1, 2023 22:40
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get a piece of paper, and a dark-colored pen. draw a line, horizontal. label the left side 0, and draw a lemniscate to label the other. under the zero, write “verbally expressing thanks or praise to a spiritual or supernatural entity (understood broadly), in speech or song”. this line is to chart how many hoops you need to jump thru to explain a Religion Thing. mark the approximate midpoint, as a reference. put a dot on the line at what you think is the appropriate location for “a model of christian salvation that accounts for both god’s love and the existence of hell, and which is more coherent than origen’s” now get out a red marker. if you placed yr dot anywhere to the left of the midpoint of that line, use the marker to inscribe a large F near the top of the paper. if yr dot is past the midpoint but is not at least two-thirds of the way toward the rightmost end of the line, use the marker to draw a large C instead. now write “see me after class” at the bottom of the paper, using the red marker
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Aug 1, 2023 22:56
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Existing is a simpler hoop than expressing praise or thanks. easier to do, way more difficult to explain
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Aug 1, 2023 23:04
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i bet he always spoke in a soft falsetto in conversation
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Aug 3, 2023 16:11
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squealing sharply at the fig tree
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Aug 3, 2023 16:13
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making a character sheet for jesus, flipping back and forth between the pages for gnome and aasimar. sweaty panic building, i write kenku and begin weeping in relief
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Aug 3, 2023 16:36
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Pellisworth posted:I was raised in a mainstream Protestant tradition so we didn't read the Genesis creation story as literal historical fact. stories there are two, juxtaposed one after the other, and they are mutually contradictory
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Sep 1, 2023 16:05
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dependent coörigination is cool, and good, and strong, and my friend
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Sep 2, 2023 03:16
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ive heard it described more or less as, in antiquity, religion is what we do, and sorcery is what they do
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Sep 2, 2023 23:37
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if only one of the something awful dot com (sub)forums could be canonized as saints, what one would you suggest and why
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Sep 9, 2023 20:33
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this is the kobayashi maru test of saint-chooser academy
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Sep 9, 2023 23:25
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ArmZ posted:pet island because francis of assisi by way of indirectly reminding me about st clare of assisi, you have brought to fore an undiscussed dimension of consideration: which forum name ends up sounding most euphonious when prefaced “saint”, accounting for both saint clare/saint john style readings and sinclair/sinjin style?? sinbyob in unwieldy, but sinfiz is charming. for instance
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Sep 11, 2023 22:10
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Worthleast posted:All of them were written by Paula though. they werent even all written by paul!!!!
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Oct 29, 2023 15:03
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“remember to like and subscribe. members get access to exclusive weekly content like newsletters and communion”
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Nov 10, 2023 22:09
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it's where voyager encountered species 8472. the entire domain is filled w a mysterious gender fluid
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Nov 12, 2023 16:54
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praise “bob”
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Nov 20, 2023 01:27
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the epistle to the hebrews is, for my money, the most coherently-composed, well-argued epistle in the nt, and it lays out what can be treated as a comprehensive model of sacrifice and faith in a christian context surrounding and moving forward from the crucifixion. great writing, highly quotable, retains poetic flourish even in the dryest translation. if it didnt hook into complicated cultural contexts, it should be taught in essay writing classesLITERALLY A BIRD posted:Is Sophia Luciferian? I thought she was just like... a Gnostic/Christian Mysticism thing (are they Luciferian? Maybe I don't know what you mean by that). calling gnosticism “luciferian” in a christian sense is like calling yazidism/kurdish ethnoreligion “devil worship” because of the peacock angel by which i mean it is dishonest and wrong
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Nov 21, 2023 13:47
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Pellisworth posted:hmm, talk of offering food to idols has me thinking of spirit plates which is not really the same thing but I guess I haven't thought about it much in a Christian context there are tons of familiar echoes or instances of this sorta observance, from the sublime (fifth cup at a seder) to the folksy (plate of cookies for santa)
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Nov 30, 2023 20:32
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the universal human drive to check if any nearby wondrous entities would like a snack
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Dec 1, 2023 21:08
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isekai about a lusty young man who is hit by a truck and finds himself having to live the life of the virgin mary
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Dec 9, 2023 15:10
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Dec 9, 2023 18:17
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