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Hi Religion Thread. Long time agnostic here who has recently had a kind of religious awakening on a very personal level. I expressed interest in my local Episcopal church and have a meeting with the Reverend there tomorrow, as he wanted to meet me. I am going to attend my first regular service on Sunday. I come from a mish mashy background of southern Pentacostals (no snakes) some of which became Baptists but none of whom were really super church-going. Never baptized, but I believe I do want this. Anyone who can give me some guidance or ideas of what to expect? I chose this church not only because of proximity but because the Episcopals seem to have the same sense of justice that I do and are supportive of LGBTQ people as well as the fact that I think liturgical ceremony is nice.
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Nov 1, 2023 22:55
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Thank you for the responses, I am aware of the communion rules and to this point in my life I have avoided doing it in services I have attended anyway, knowing that I am unbaptized. As said in the thread, I don't feel it right to do so. I have read that in the Episcopal church that becoming baptized, though, requires finding a sponsor, and in his brief email to me asking if I would be interested in having a further conversation in person or over the phone, the priest did mention to me that deciding if baptism is right for me is something done best in the community, much as anything else, since no one is Christian alone. A sentiment I appreciate.Azathoth posted:That's awesome! I hope you have a good conversation with the priest, Episcopalians are super cool, especially if you like "high church" liturgy. I appreciate this as well, and something I intend to let him know if I can is that while my initial message may have sounded kind of jumpy, that I am generally a person who approaches everything with dedication and an open mind to what I don't know. I know that if it is my wish to be a Christian that I must learn to be one. I am excited though. I haven't talked about this with anyone in my family because faith to me is something I feel is kind of private, and I also wanted to follow my own path on this rather than get a lot of "Well you should try MY church out."
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Nov 2, 2023 01:15
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All of those things are cool, I am down with lace and smoke and I have always loved funny hats. My own journey so far really isn't that crazy. I was brought up basically without any real Bible study aside from Sunday school and my grandma telling me lots as a kid that "God will snatch the breath out of you." to make me behave. He didn't, so I guess I was good? In my teenage and early twenties years I raged against religion but still found solace in a kind of...vague spirituality? This year I started meditating, and that was an interesting thing to start doing that actually helped me center myself a lot. I started reconnecting with people and getting out in the world once again, and found that I liked having love in my life from others. Meditation taught me that there's a central me inside that is separate from a lot of the other drama and stuff I get myself caught up in worrying about. But my experiences recently involved a lot of personal loss in my life after a period of a kind of malaise, and recently while meditating during some grief I felt a very odd sensation of comfort, serenity, and boundless love. It wasn't the serenity I'd felt with that "central me" I usually felt with meditation, it was very obviously something else. I feel like this story gets told a lot by people, but it's what brought me back to thinking about the Holy Spirit. It might sound silly, but I feel oddly clear headed about it without feeling like I'm desperately trying to believe in something, which is how I think I felt a lot of religious people might feel when I was younger and rebelling against everything and everyone regardless.
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Nov 2, 2023 02:58
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You ain't kidding. Same for me.
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Nov 2, 2023 03:07
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HenryJLittlefinger posted:Just curious here, are yall talking about baptism in an Episcopal church specifically? I did have lunch with the reverend today and it was a good conversation, but as far as communion you are right, his take was that I could do it, or choose not to and it was totally based on what I am comfortable with. I have, up to now, never really taken it knowing that I am not baptized, and I believe I will continue to do as such until I am. He is very welcoming and explained to me what I will need to do if my choice is to get baptized eventually, and that it will require a little bit of sideline bible study with him since parents are asked to do the same before baptizing their baby. He also said community is a big deal and that all of these decisions are best made in the community among the people who show up, and I agree with that. I let him know that this is not just a religious experience for me but an educational one and that I am aware and interested in that. Overall I feel pretty good about it, and am still pretty stoked to meet people and learn.
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Nov 3, 2023 04:57
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I'd be happy to try and document mine, as much as I can, as it happens. I am sure it will be a months long process as there are only certain major holy days he said that they are even done on, and I believe the next one is far too soon (this Sunday, which is All Saint's Day). The next one after that, I believe, is the first Sunday after Epiphany.
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Nov 3, 2023 05:25
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Well today was my first Churchin' at my local Episcopal church, and it was a really interesting day to be a first. Not only is it the All Saint's Sunday, but also there was a brunch gathering in the adjacent room for the whole congregation afterward celebrating the Reverend's 10 year anniversary at this particular church. The liturgy is something I really like, and when communion came I crossed my arms to receive a blessing rather than taking it, and was glad to do that. I found myself just kind of reading the hymns rather than singing because I don't really know any of them, so that's another thing for me to learn. Meeting the rest of the community was a lot of fun, and whoever earlier said I would be doted upon by old church ladies was right on the money. I also got to sit with this cool older guy named Bob who has been going to this church for over 20 years and he gave me like a historical rundown of the building and all the additions throughout the years, and the programs they have run, and how they coped with the pandemic. He and his friend Dennis were really cool and fun to talk to. There were so many people today since it was a big event day that I didn't get a chance to meet everyone but even those I only had a few words with were really hopeful to see me around again so we could chat more. I'm looking forward to that. I even got one lady who wants me in choir because of my "radio voice." I was pretty nervous going into this but I have to say after all is said and done I'm really happy with my choice, and with the community I've chosen.
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Nov 5, 2023 20:32
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Bob owns, and I can't wait to see him again. He unfortunately won't be around next week because he's traveling to Cleveland to see his granddaughter. The homily had a guest speaker actually, a woman from another church. It was pretty good, she quoted Obama and talked about Voodoo and connected it to using God as an icon to follow, and also talked about motorcycle riding in New Hampshire. I kind of had to grit my teeth because my extremely conservative, sorta racist, crazy aunt decided to come to this too because I put my cousin (her daughter's) name into the list of names to read off for the All Saint's prayer. I think she might come back, interestingly enough. She's always been more of a fire/brimstone angry southern type, but she seemed to like this place. She didn't even make a comment at the realization that the Reverend is a trans man, which happened during his wife's speech for his anniversary lunch.
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Nov 5, 2023 22:25
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Me too. It was nice to see her get out and talk to people, she's usually pretty reclusive. It's funny and kind of weird how it panned out, because I started reaching out to this church last week after I had my experience. And I put my cousin's name in on Tuesday, and had already had a lunch scheduled with the Reverend. Then during lunch I told him about my cousin dying, and described the circumstances, and he was like "Wait is your aunt this person?" And I said yeah, and he said "It's so weird, she came in yesterday and asked to use the sanctuary to pray, so I let her in, then I talked to her for an hour or two because she looked like she needed it. She asked me to put your cousin's name in the prayer and I went to my records after and it was already in." So, weirdly enough, my aunt who had no idea I had already contacted this church with an interest to figure out how to get involved and join, just ended up there randomly. I figured I'd get away with this whole thing without uttering a word about it to my family but after that I couldn't just not say anything.
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Nov 5, 2023 22:32
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There were a handful, maybe. I would say there was probably only 3-5 that were anywhere in the 5 year either above or below me (36). And also, most people told me that today was a high attendance day and that on a typical Sunday it's fewer. There were likely around 50-60 people there today, but it was a big Christian holiday and the Reverend's anniversary. One child, seemingly there with his grandparents. Most everyone else was 55+ and had been attending this or other churches for greater than 20 years.
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Nov 6, 2023 02:38
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I'm not sure, but she was pretty into the idea.
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Nov 6, 2023 02:41
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If y'all think you're gonna make me a priest you got another thing comin Also congrats! I am lookin' forward to gettin' dipped.
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Nov 7, 2023 13:42
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sinnesloeschen posted:WELCOME FRIEND Thank you, I'm glad that you're making progress on your path in the church.
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Nov 7, 2023 17:49
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"And they lived happily ever after, except the apostles."
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Nov 11, 2023 00:16
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My aunt ended up not able to make it to Churchin' 2 today. So I went alone and it was a much small crowd since it wasn't All Saints etc, but it was cool. One of the church ladies insisted I come sit over with her crew. Neat aside, today was our church Saint day, St. Martin. Got to learn about him and his incredibly awesome story. Ended up sitting and chatting with people for a really long time after, and everyone is super nice and want me to bring my guitar in (????). I find myself looking forward to this every week. Everyone is so absurdly kind.
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Nov 13, 2023 03:44
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I have come to tell more of the saga of Bob. Last week at church I was talking to Bob and his wife, who survived cancer and has a bald spot on her head still so she wears a cap all the time. I mentioned that she'd look good in a flat cap, and she said she thought maybe so. I mentioned I used to have one from Ireland and I loved it but I lost it. This week Bob and his wife show up both wearing their own flat caps from Ireland and he had an extra one in his pocket that was too big for him and he gave it to me. It's an awesome hat. Then he asked me to sit with him in the back so he could teach me how to record the service on the iPad for Facebook in case he ever wasn't there to be able to do it, and where to plug it in in the service room at the side of the church after so it could be uploaded by the rector. Bob is the poo poo. Church owns.
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Nov 20, 2023 00:07
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So I've been approaching reading scripture in a particular kind of way and I just want to bounce it off what others think here. I am starting with the gospels, and have gotten through Matthew now. My intention is to treat this a lot like I would anything as a student, which is to do a clean read of the text and then bounce it off reference material and conversations with the rector at my church. So having read Matthew, formed my own ideas about it, the next step is to cruise over to the Oxford study bible and read their introductory lessons and notes about it, as well as some of their introductory essays as well. Something that really strikes me so far is that while there is this popular idea of Christ as a kind of listless hippy, he comes off very often as a pretty intense dude, who is kind and charitable with individuals but utterly ruthless with institutions. I really enjoyed particularly two things: his refusal to give a demonstration of power to the priests. He hasn't had problems previously with displaying his power at all, when asked by those who are suffering and sick. But when asked by someone who just wants it because without a vulgar display of power they would be unwilling to let go of any of their own authority he just outright refuses. The other thing that stuck out to me is how he chastises Peter when he complains after he reveals that he will die and be resurrected for the first time. There's this constant feeling in the text that while he is trying to teach people, he's operating on a different wavelength and has a second strand of thought he's dealing with, and this is the first time I feel like he really reveals that he's not just thinking in human terms, as Peter was. But that he's focused on the divine as well. It was an interesting tidbit in the text because it clarifies a little bit as to why he has such trouble getting his point across even to his own disciples sometimes, since the divine element is beyond human (and their) comprehension. I'm excited to read the others. I have also been reading the daily offices because it seems like an interesting way to get tidbits of scripture that sometimes actually illuminates what I have already been reading, but sometimes just leaves me going "Hm, I have no context for this  "
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Nov 20, 2023 18:25
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Azathoth posted:That episode from Star Trek: Lower Decks with the Pakled and their increasingly larger authority hats was a coded reference to schismatic churches. I'll keep an eye out for that. Once I finished Matthew I went over the chapter notes in the Oxford bible (the study bible I own is digital, the actual bible I've been reading is a giftshop NRSV faux leather blue bible because I just like chilling on the couch and reading my book). They did have some interesting notes about the Temple incident, specifically that it seems like the table he flipped over when he went there was basically the currency exchange table since they only allowed the local currency to be traded within the Temple, and not Roman money. Something definitely didn't sit right with him seeing money and goods being traded there.
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Nov 20, 2023 23:24
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I get the feeling that if you misgendered Jesus, he'd forgive you for it. I think this week I am going to talk to the reverend at my church about committing to getting baptized eventually, and asking if he'd recommend a sponsor or if I should just ask one of the people I've gotten close with at church. Kinda nervous to ask though, since I've only been coming for a month.
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Nov 25, 2023 02:38
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Well someone's gotta do it (I hope it's Bob).
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Nov 25, 2023 02:47
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My aunt will likely attend, she has been coming to the same church on and off. My mom would probably want to be there. My brother, maybe? But he's not religious. None of my friends are, either. I was thinking that even if it's just me and the community during the baptism, I would have a little thing at my apartment after with family and close friends. I have a lot of friends who are actively hostile to religion in general, and I haven't really talked about this with any of them just because I don't have the energy for "that talk." It's not really their business, in my opinion, as it's something I'm doing for me and for God. But I cannot express how different I feel compared to just over a month ago. For a long time I'd felt like I was running on fumes. It wasn't depression, I've felt that before. It was just a general emptiness like I was going through the motions of life. I don't feel that way anymore, and haven't for a while now. If you had told me two months ago even that I would in short order become a person who, when bored hanging out on discord with my friends when everyone is silent and doing their own thing, that I'd be just as content to walk away and go sit and read scripture I'd have told you that you were nuts.
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Nov 25, 2023 03:47
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sinnesloeschen posted:yeah ime its p cool to meet and subsequently hang out with actual followers of jesus My rear end has been thoroughly gotten. I get hyped for hymns. Old me would have said that's cringe, and he'd be right, but I accept the cringe. The cringe is become me.
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Nov 25, 2023 20:31
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So far all I have been called to is the holy ipad to record the service for the holy facebook page.
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Nov 25, 2023 20:52
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I did get me one of them books of common prayer, which is a fantastic possession. Part of why I chose an Episcopal church is the participation in community, but the choice personally as to how much stuff you want to actually do outside of church. I've found reading at least one daily devotion a day with the daily office scripture readings has been a nice little meditation, and yesterday I chose to do my first Friday fast (which has a double purpose, in that I want to actually change my life in accordance with my choice to pursue God and religion, but also I am still losing weight, sixty pounds last year. So it's a twofer). What should I expect for advent? It seems like my church does a thing every Thursday night plus the Christmas Eve/Day services. So far all I know is there are special, different hymns. They tried to "train" us in them last Sunday which went over well except for the one where two groups have to sing at two different times.
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Nov 25, 2023 21:04
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Ohtori Akio posted:it is cringe to take up our cross and follow Christ and that is the true martyrdom "Beware of men, for they will say you're cringe and post about it."
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Nov 25, 2023 21:05
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I'm not versed enough yet to have developed problems with the BCP but I do think it does a pretty okay job at outlining what an ordered Christian life could look like, depending on how you want to go about it. I'm a stickler for organization and habit, though.
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Nov 25, 2023 21:20
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I appreciate the shitposting, I don't have many folks to talk to about this stuff outside of church so it is nice to have someone to bounce questions off of. Thank you!
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Nov 25, 2023 21:34
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Today was a fantastic hymn day, I think Crown him with Many Crowns is my favorite hymn I've encountered yet. Also in other good news; Bob has agreed to be my sponsor for holy baptism. Gotta meet with the reverend and iron out the other details. I'm gettin' dipped folks.
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Nov 26, 2023 21:26
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sinnesloeschen posted:yessssssssssssssssssssss git dat flea dip I have no idea. It entirely depends on the conversation I have with my reverend. He had to practice with our choir today so had no time to meet after service, so I had to email him. I know I have to go through a process with him that involves 4-5 classes of some kind. I don't know the details, but I am sure it depends on his schedule. I think the earliest it could possibly be would be the Sunday after Epiphany, which is one of the holy days that is when they do baptisms. But perhaps not until after Easter. I am hoping to figure that out soon.
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Nov 26, 2023 23:49
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Yeah I am not sure the nature of it. I guess "class" isn't a word that was actually used, but I kind of assumed that's what it might be?
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Nov 27, 2023 00:13
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The website says about it that you might be expected to sit down for a few council session with a priest to talk about the commitment you are making and that you understand it.
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Nov 27, 2023 01:07
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Lutha Mahtin posted:how long until christians truly grapple with all of the many groaner dad-jokes that are found in the red letters I was reading Acts last night (which was fantastic), and there was this line where Paul makes a very "Yeah, get a load of those guys  " joke when giving a sermon about some or another city.Also there's a straight up Seinfeld joke in John where Philip tells Nathanael that the Messiah has come out of Nazareth and he's like "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" NomChompsky fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 14:38
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I read Romans yesterday and while I very much enjoyed reading the Gospels and Acts, I don't think yet that I've read anything that struck me right in the heart and soul as much as Romans did. Paul is, first off, a hilarious communicator of ideas and paradoxes (BY NO MEANS!) But the articulation of the difference between the law and trespasses against it and the way of faith was just incredible. The historical context is interesting, but setting even the divides he was trying to close aside, the book is a fantastic treatise on living through faith and love rather than through only fear and trying to do everything right because those are the rules. It was absolutely beautiful. I am wondering what others think about the passages about doing anything to make your brothers and sisters "stumble." The way I read this was that everyone is likely to be offended or worried for you and your behavior depending on their own perspective, and regardless of whether we agree with them about a particular thing, we should do what we can to go along and get along. It seemed like what Paul was saying is that even within the Christian faith all of us are going to do things differently, and that only becomes a problem when we either pressure one another to conform, or when we persist in doing something ourselves which is actively harmful to ourselves or others. I could be wrong. But it seemed like a very universalist doctrine.
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Nov 29, 2023 17:40
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Azathoth posted:Paul talks a lot about reconciliation and interpersonal relationships and I'd venture that one could cite proof texts for a wide range of interpretations. My read of it in totality is that Paul places a high value on communal harmony, so in some places Paul takes a very "live and let live" attitude but in other places makes it clear that we're all supposed to check each other and call out bad behavior. Yeah, and the historical context I mentioned is exactly this. Specifically this letter was written because shortly before this all Jews had been kicked out of Rome, but were eventually let back in. This included Jewish Christians, who when intermingled once again with the gentile Christians had all kinds of arguments with them about what was okay and what wasn't. It's why he talked about food so much. In reality, what was going on what a rift that could be damaging to the Church at large, and he had to patch that up. But in the process you end up with a more encompassing message, which I think you're right about. Something I have noticed too is that it seems that, in any age, Christianity and the assumed behavior of Christians is very much defined by the actions and behavior of power. And I could see how, in the ancient world, where a lot of religion was quite legalistic (especially in Rome), that the importance of faith instead of law would be incredibly important to Christians at the time. Liquid Communism posted:Earnest discussion of the Inquisition touting it as just and merciful for its day, with a side of 'of course it's moral to burn heretics, and the state should be doing it'. Ew. NomChompsky fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Nov 29, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 20:32
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I definitely think that's at least half of what he's saying. I think also it's why he spends a lot of time talking about why we should not pass judgment, because God is the one who judges, not us. As such, that means that like you're saying, we have the capacity to pressure others into casting judgment. It's kind of a bear-poking thing, since people are given to being judgmental anyway.
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Nov 29, 2023 22:59
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Let me be clear here: regardless of my personal feelings on Goddess cults, it's beyond reasonable for Paul to be saying, "Hey, fellow Christians, do not do these things emblematic of Goddess cults." And when the other way to read it is the homophobic way then hell yeah Paul, you go fellow ace, you keep speaking your religious truth. Thrillingly for everyone, while it's not the exact copy as the paper I read a quick Google found a very similar version on the author's personal website. So I am not going to stitch together a giant quote-block post about it but here is a link for people whose attentions prick at titles like that the way mine does Paul specifically mentions pagan orgies in Corinthians which I just read too, and within the broader context of the letter, he talks about eating sacrificial food or food left for idols, and he has an interesting take on the acceptability of it. He basically says that you shouldn't eat the sacrificial meat in situations in which it might give other people, non-Christians, the idea that Christians are down with worshipping other deities. But if you are invited for dinner and nobody would misunderstand your eating it for being an idolator, then whatever. It seems to be in keeping with his general idea that being Christian is far more about your relationships with other people, and how you affect their lives, than how pious and obedient you are. He even mentions that eating with idolators itself isn't bad because as Christians, we don't believe in the idols anyway. They're just pieces of wood. Where it gets weird for Paul is if you are misrepresenting yourself and your faith, and giving other people the wrong idea about you or misleading them. I don't know, this is my first time through, so I am just beginning to get an understanding of what is going on.
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Nov 30, 2023 19:14
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So my church every Thursday night is doing an advent series which is just people gathering to sing through the Holden Evening Prayer and boy that is an incredible series of hymns, and the atmosphere of the church at night really brings the entire atmosphere home. Very much enjoyed that and I am gonna do it every week for the next couple.
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Dec 1, 2023 23:47
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I haven't gotten through the wisdom books but the gist I got of them from my reverend was Proverbs: Here's how to live with wisdom. Ecclesiastes: But life is random and not everything goes the way you expect. Job: Here's an example.
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Dec 2, 2023 19:24
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killer crane posted:My spouse comes from a very fundamentalist family. They'd rather I be an atheist, or any other religion, than being a liberal Christian. They look at other beliefs as of the world, and just regular old sinful and confused, and simply in need of saving... but to them someone who's Christian and doesn't believe like them is spreading false teaching, and leading children away from the true Christ. My beliefs are abhorrent to them. The funny thing is there's a funny horseshoe pattern to religious belief in much the same way as there is in politics. Hardcore militant atheists and religious fundamentalists both agree quite sternly on one thing: that the only way to actually be religious is to be a fundamentalist who believes quite literally in every religious idea or holy text to the letter, regardless of how anachronistic, immoral, or destructive such a belief and the actions it would drive could be. What they don't seem to understand is that in any religion, spiritual teaching and philosophy is more often better communicated through allegory, parable, poetry, and song than almost anything else.
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Dec 3, 2023 22:35
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Liquid Communism posted:The secret of course is that the religious right is not remotely religious. They are interested in power and control, full stop, and happy to lean on christofascist rhetoric while indulging in absolutely bacchanal levels of vice behind closed doors. A good example being their repeated rhetoric about transgender people and drag performers grooming minors by existing while rarely does a week go by without a GOP politician or donor being arrested for CSAM or sexual abuse of a child. I am an extremely lay reader since my first scripture read-thru has been over the last month, but this is something that I keep thinking and have written down several times in my notes: Jesus' biggest problem with the Sadducees and Pharisees was an obsession with maintaining personal power in the case of the former, and obsession with the letter of the law to the exclusion of faith in the case of the latter. Something that strikes me about these two problems is that it smacks of those who use dogma as a bludgeon today. Fundamentalists in power are cynical, and interested in maintaining power. Fundamentalists outside of power are so obsessed with following the letter of the law that they have forgotten how to love their fellow man, and by extension how to love God.
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Dec 7, 2023 23:55
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