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My face watching the last episode:  Koito plot ending up being "bitches be crazy" is really beyond gross. And I feel like Neiru being an AI clone should've been better foreshadowed or something because the crew going "nah gently caress that she wasn't human" is so flippant when they were all so close, shouldn't there have been more meditation on well she had feelings like us, she had egg dreams, etc? Did Ai not tell Momo and Rika about the Accas and what they did to Frill? The dumb sci-fi stuff at the end really ruined the tempo of the earlier episodes, which I still really love and enjoy. And creepo Sawaki getting off scot free by the narrative is awful and gross and nauseating.
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Jun 30, 2021 18:43
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Sana-kan posted:And I feel like Neiru being an AI clone should've been better foreshadowed or something
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Jun 30, 2021 19:02
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Sana-kan posted:And creepo Sawaki getting off scot free by the narrative is awful and gross and nauseating.
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Jun 30, 2021 19:27
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The thing that keeps killing me about Sawaki in particular is that he would still be a massively inappropriate and creepy weirdo even if Ai and Koito and all had all been completely normal people with no trauma or background issues at all. Don't draw your students and then put them on display! Don't date your student's mom!! I don't care how hot the mom is, you can put your dick away for two loving years!!! This shouldn't be hard!!!!
Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 19:38
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Spiritus Nox posted:The thing that keeps killing me about Sawaki in particular is that he would still be a massively inappropriate and creepy weirdo even if Ai and Koito and all had all been completely normal people with no trauma or background issues at all. Don't draw your students and then put them on display! Don't date your student's mom!! I don't care how hot the mom is, you can put your dick away for two loving years!!! This shouldn't be hard!!!! Latent Heat
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Jun 30, 2021 23:18
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Toalpaz posted:Latent Heat God I'd *forgotten* about that
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Jul 1, 2021 00:26
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https://twitter.com/Yuyucow/status/1410300090720337922 So that means this was the ending planned and whelp that makes me even more mad given how the first episodes portrayed Koito
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Jul 1, 2021 02:08
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funny ep better luck next time guys
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Jul 1, 2021 02:33
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https://files.catbox.moe/bafozi.mp4
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Jul 1, 2021 05:00
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Freshly waxed floors can be a real pain
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Jul 1, 2021 07:33
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SatoshiMiwa posted:https://twitter.com/Yuyucow/status/1410300090720337922 I think there's a *way* to make the twist with Koito in ep 13 work. Ai was not at all required for Koito to get close to Sawaki. I think Sawaki and Ai were talking a bit even before Koito came along, but you'd think Ai having an actual friend would make her need to talk to a teacher less, not more, so it doesn't make much sense as a route to get to Sawaki. Furthermore, Koito is still, like, 14. Falsely accusing someone of sexual assault and trying to blackmail them is awful, but it's not like she's a mature adult with full consciousness of what she's doing. These are the actions of a deeply, deeply troubled kid. So you could dig into how she still had good parts to her personality and what could have possibly caused a kid to start acting like that. Like, she had to learn it from somewhere. The issue is 1) You'd need way more focus on Koito than we got. 2) You'd need a way defter hand than this show has. 3) You'd need to present it pretty early on and not as a shocking twist in the last episode. Endorph fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Jul 1, 2021 |
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Jul 1, 2021 07:46
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So, I heard the soundtrack for this show on Youtube and it's amazing. I was thinking of watching it, but I hear the last episode isn't groovy. Should I just... watch the first few episodes and then just stop? I'm totally fine with picking an arbitrary ending point!
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Jul 1, 2021 13:13
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Dog Kisser posted:So, I heard the soundtrack for this show on Youtube and it's amazing. I was thinking of watching it, but I hear the last episode isn't groovy. Should I just... watch the first few episodes and then just stop? I'm totally fine with picking an arbitrary ending point! I mean, I guess you could watch about the first half of it as long as you accept that none of the big questions that the show raises are ever going to be answered in a satisfying way. The characters are pretty fun and it doesn't really go too far off the rails before the first recap episode.
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Jul 1, 2021 13:20
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it's kind of incredible to watch an anime ruin literally everything good it had going for it over 40 (20) minutes. how many dozens of writers were involved in this mess? this couldn't possibly have been written by a single person, feels like there were multiple writers and they all wanted to tell their own story and just when you thought they had made everything a mess, guess what, gently caress you, robots
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Jul 1, 2021 13:24
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https://twitter.com/Yuyucow/status/1410396850025340932
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Jul 1, 2021 13:25
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Dog Kisser posted:So, I heard the soundtrack for this show on Youtube and it's amazing. I was thinking of watching it, but I hear the last episode isn't groovy. Should I just... watch the first few episodes and then just stop? I'm totally fine with picking an arbitrary ending point! If there were two chefs in the kitchen, I wonder whether they were like Abrams and Johnson over the course of a cour instead of a trilogy. It's a moot point if the show's message was always supposed to be "girls be crazy". I desperately wanted this anime to be something other than what it turned out to be, and that's on me. Bell_ fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Jul 1, 2021 |
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Jul 1, 2021 13:30
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marumaru posted:it's kind of incredible to watch an anime ruin literally everything good it had going for it over 40 (20) minutes. how many dozens of writers were involved in this mess? this couldn't possibly have been written by a single person, feels like there were multiple writers and they all wanted to tell their own story the implication is that the director and writer both had hands in the show's writing but if you asked me i'd say it's obvious the writer ended up having more control over the story. if anything the first few episodes are very uncharacteristic of him in terms of how they approach their overall storytelling, and that's why they're the best in the entire show. all of the weird left-field twists and shock stuff as the show goes on are, as far as i can tell from reading one of his manga at least, 100% things nojima would do, and some of the more thematically weird parts echo views he's shared in interviews, and the entire reason nojima was brought on is cause he has prestige as a noteworthy live action drama writer like if you want an understanding of how nojima writes stories, his trans manga introduces a flirty bi woman in chapter 1, and then midway through the manga she gets aids and leaves the country, and then at the end of the manga the main character visits her as she's dying of aids and says "by the way, i found out you had an identical twin, and you swapped places sometimes. i don't think i hosed her though." and then he leaves. none of this is relevant to anything. The Colonel fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jul 1, 2021 |
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Jul 1, 2021 14:25
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Dog Kisser posted:So, I heard the soundtrack for this show on Youtube and it's amazing. I was thinking of watching it, but I hear the last episode isn't groovy. Should I just... watch the first few episodes and then just stop? I'm totally fine with picking an arbitrary ending point!
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Jul 1, 2021 15:19
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The Colonel posted:like if you want an understanding of how nojima writes stories, his trans manga introduces a flirty bi woman in chapter 1, and then midway through the manga she gets aids and leaves the country, and then at the end of the manga the main character visits her as she's dying of aids and says "by the way, i found out you had an identical twin, and you swapped places sometimes. i don't think i hosed her though." and then he leaves. none of this is relevant to anything. on one hand holy poo poo lmao, on the other hand this could have been in the wegg finale and i don't think it would have been any more insane than what we got
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Jul 1, 2021 16:29
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I kinda can't process how insanely bad this last episode was. Looked like poo poo, written incomprehensibly, addresses nothing.
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Jul 1, 2021 17:00
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I'm in the crowd of the last episode just making the entire series bad so I wouldn't recommend watching anything but if you do want to watch stopping at 6 is probably a good stopping point
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Jul 1, 2021 17:23
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Same. My opinion of the show had already sunk from "extremely promising, a new classic in the making" to "well, at least the first half was good", but episode 13 went out of its way to completely torpedo any readings of it that aren't disgusting.
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Jul 1, 2021 17:37
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Yeah personally I'm the sort of person who, when I see a story go "oh this suicide victim was actually a hysterical harlot out to ruin good men's reputation", consider the well thoroughly poisoned overall. To the extent that there are still good things about the show, they're not anything I can't get elsewhere from a story that doesn't also pull that poo poo.
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Jul 1, 2021 18:12
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I'm trying to think of a story that fucks it up worse than this, like going over all the greatest hits of stuff that started great and went completely to pot, and I think this is both the highest high and lowest low. Truly a legend.
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Jul 1, 2021 18:27
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I've seen some people suggesting that there might have been some last-minute rewrites or story changes that resulted in why this episode was the way that it is, but if anything I kinda get the opposite impression - that the rest of the staff might have initially had a much heavier hand in shaping the show during the earlier episodes, but as time went on and the schedule got tighter they just had less and less time to actually make any changes while adapting Nojima's script. Like, the finale's problems clearly go far beyond just the overt plot happenings - the entire episode felt like they were just running down a checklist of story beats in the most rote and lifeless way possible, and the end result was strange and disjointed and entirely devoid of any sort of emotional impact whatsoever. It mostly just kinda drove in just how much the rest of the show's staff actually elevated Nojima's scripts, because honestly I wouldn't even say the stuff that happens in this episode is really any "worse" than any of the stupid poo poo that happened in the show's earlier episodes, beyond the inherent stupidity of the fact that the show was still introducing stupid plot twists right to its last minute (well, that and the genuinely horrible note that Koito's story ended on, there really was no salvaging that) - it just didn't have the show's usual aesthetic grace to pull it out of the mud. And this isn't really meant to be me just one-sidedly lumping all of the show's problems onto Nojima or anything - if anything, the episode's closest thing to a saving grace was that even to the end the characters really did have some compelling chemistry, and there were at least some scenes in there that I felt at least could have worked if they hadn't had the spectre of the entire rest of the episode hanging over them. It's more just an acknowledgement that a work like this pretty much requires being able to actually adapt the scripts they're based on rather than just robotically transcribing the words that are written there onto the screen, and when the staff aren't given the time to do that you get... well, this episode. Granted, I guess I also wouldn't really be surprised if it turns out there really were some last minute rewrites that also resulted in this episode being the way that it is. BlitznBurst fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jul 1, 2021 |
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Jul 1, 2021 18:53
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an actual dog posted:I'm trying to think of a story that fucks it up worse than this, like going over all the greatest hits of stuff that started great and went completely to pot, and I think this is both the highest high and lowest low. Truly a legend. Death Note after L dies, but it's hard to compare a long running series screwing up to a 13 episode series. Closest in a 13 episode series for me is Erased where I loved the first half but hated what the final arc turned into but even that was more me being disappointed in the direction and not outright just hating everything
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Jul 1, 2021 19:02
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Endorph posted:Koito is still, like, 14. Falsely accusing someone of sexual assault and trying to blackmail them is awful, but it's not like she's a mature adult with full consciousness of what she's doing. These are the actions of a deeply, deeply troubled kid. One of the things I liked about WEP at the start is that it took characters that could have come off as dull or victims of fate a lot of agency, it made it feel really fresh. I believe blaming a child for a grown man's suicide is too much agency
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Jul 1, 2021 19:16
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an actual dog posted:I'm trying to think of a story that fucks it up worse than this, like going over all the greatest hits of stuff that started great and went completely to pot, and I think this is both the highest high and lowest low. Truly a legend. Usagi Drop would be another big one.
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Jul 1, 2021 20:01
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i don't think i'll recommend the show to anyone, but i don't think a bad ending is as bad as something like Usagi Drop where half of the whole work is vile and just completely ruins everything before it. i'm going to pretend WEP ends at episode 11 with a really great and polarizing horror/sci fi cliffhanger that will never get expanded on or explained. pretending it ended with episode 12 would leave too much hope and bum me out to think about.
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Jul 1, 2021 20:27
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Yeah, I think that literally the bare minimum this show would have needed to do to make the conclusion to Koito's story in this episode not be inherently gross is to at least, you know, approach her position with empathy and tact and an attempt to understand why she is the way that she is rather than just going "wow, look at this crazy bitch, ruining the lives of these upstanding men!" For a show that purports to be looking at why these young girls commit suicide to really just conclude her story by going "bitches be crazy, yo" and looking no further into it at all is just... I mean, heck, even if they'd literally just inserted that conversation into the scene where it originally took place in the timeline, and not really changed much else, that... actually would still have been a bit better? Like, having Sawaki tell Ai his version of the story during episode 10 or 11, then having Ai mull it over throughout episode 12 before ultimately concluding that she can't know what the truth about Koito actually is but that doesn't change the fact that Koito saved her... it certainly wouldn't fix the inherent grossness of the story itself or the fact that Sawaki himself is still unambiguously presented as a completely trustworthy, stand-up guy who was really just the victim of Koito's hysterics or whatever, but it at least would have somewhat preserved the subplot's ambiguous but somewhat hopeful ending note rather than completely undermining it with this pointlessly nasty swerve right at the start of the next episode? Like, I genuinely don't understand what the gently caress the point even was of hiding what Sawaki said until the very last minute except for the sake of throwing in one more mean-spirited twist right at the very end. Either that or I'm giving Nojima too much credit by assuming that this was a planned twist and not something that he literally just threw in there while writing the last episode just for the sake of it, which frankly wouldn't really surprise me.
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Jul 1, 2021 20:43
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I finished episode 12 a couple hours ago after hearing some rumblings about the show ending badly. I was like “well, they left some hanging plot threads but it wasn’t so bad, though they definitely introduced a villain at the 11th hour and didn’t really conclude that arc. But I guess Ai achieved her goal so that’s alright.” Then I see there’s a special. “Oh cool this will clear up what’s going on with the butterfly weirdos.” 45 minutes later: Ohhhhh nooooooo
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Jul 2, 2021 00:16
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Sana-kan posted:My face watching the last episode: The show was “bitches be crazy” and toxic messaging from the very early episodes, nerds just wanted to see things that weren’t there lol
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Jul 2, 2021 07:28
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Captain Oblivious posted:The show was “bitches be crazy” and toxic messaging from the very early episodes, nerds just wanted to see things that weren’t there lol since the show didn't say anything more about rika's issues, it has confirmed its messaging around it that self harm is healthy and good for you and you should feel proud of having a reason to do it.
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Jul 2, 2021 07:45
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Captain Oblivious posted:The show was “bitches be crazy” and toxic messaging from the very early episodes, nerds just wanted to see things that weren’t there lol
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Jul 2, 2021 08:52
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Endorph posted:nah not really i mean there were a couple weird things like the rika thing i mentioned that i personally believed oh they're setting up this bad resolution for something in the latter half, right? and then,...
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Jul 2, 2021 08:59
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So after speeding through the special, there are a few things that are pretty bizarre that we're probably never going to get an explanation for now since no one seems happy at the ending. Neiru is an AI? This doesn't add up since we've seen her bleed, eat, drink and go to hospital in the past and also she has a massive scar on her back. So how exactly is she a machine? Ok, maybe she's some sort of biological machine? How is that different from a human? IIRC previously we established that Neiru was a test tube baby, which makes a lot more sense. I'm kind of leaning towards this reveal being a lie and part of some sort of conspiracy by her assistant. The Koito reveal is all through Sawaki and that makes it's pretty sus. If Sawaki knew about her past with the other teacher then why would he be alone with her for so long and hug her in private etc? Also she threatened to jump if he didn't go to the roof and since he says she 'apparently' shouted that he raped her he didn't go. The details about no one looking when she 'slipped' even though you can see people standing right behind her is also too convenient and doesn't make sense. How would he know she slipped if he wasn't there and no one was looking? Sawaki also never shows a trace of emotion about the whole incident which you'd expect if a girl threatened to kill herself if he didn't do something, he didn't and then she fell off a roof after claiming he'd raped her. So I'm calling this also a lie. Ai going to see the Acca's to see Neiru means she probably killed herself, right? She got infected by Frill and ran off to go die in a field somewhere. That sucks. The whole special sucks but I'm pretty pissed at this in particular. What a shitshow. Even if it was intended that all the bad stuff would be revealed to be lies next season it's really lovely writing to hang all this out like this in the last ep of this one. I was hoping I could enjoy it at least even if everyone else didn't but no, it really was that bad.
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Jul 2, 2021 09:34
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Futaba Anzu posted:i mean there were a couple weird things like the rika thing i mentioned that i personally believed oh they're setting up this bad resolution for something in the latter half, right? and then,...
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Jul 2, 2021 10:22
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Endorph posted:i mean i thought the rika resolution was fine as they left it. its not saying that self-harm is good its saying that rika isnt some kind of broken human being for doing it. maybe thats too generous a read given everything else in the show but like, she stopped self-harming and found better ways of managing her stress. they completely undermine that by going for the ptsd shock value thing with her lizard pet that they then never really address but i didnt at all read that episode's ending as 'self-harm is good' just that there's no need for dramatic come to jesus moments, it can just be a stupid thing you did for understandable reasons. I could be wrong but I thought there was specifically a line in her declarations where she said she'd continue doing it because it was who she was, I need to double check that
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Jul 2, 2021 11:37
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Nah I don't think she ever says she's gonna continue doing it, I think she just says that she needed a way to work out her frustrations. She has friends and a pet lizard so she has a better way of venting it out than the cutting.
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Jul 2, 2021 12:09
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Captain Oblivious posted:The show was “bitches be crazy” and toxic messaging from the very early episodes, nerds just wanted to see things that weren’t there lol It really wasn't. Also, if your only contribution to this thread is to gloat over others and call them wishful morons, please don't bother posting in here.
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Jul 2, 2021 13:34
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