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I mean, it's a bit biotruthy in how it's framed but in real life there are real differences between how men and women tend to commit suicide, suicide attempts, etc. Women tend to make multiple attempts and tend to choose methods that are less immediately deadly, like overdose or drowning, or have a higher risk of failure. There's a lot of thinking into why this is and obviously it isn't a hard and fast rule, and what he says in the episode doesn't quite line up with that, but I don't think exploring the fact that there are differences is that off.
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Feb 2, 2021 19:46
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Wonder Egg Priority: This Content Warning Goes To Eleven Show continues to be very good.
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Feb 2, 2021 19:47
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I'm wondering now if whatever dreamscape the people go to is based on where their important person died. Ai goes to a school and we know Koito jumped off the roof, Momoe goes to a train station and her statue looks like it jumped onto the tracks. It leads me to think that Chiemi starved to death out in the field where her dreamscape is set.
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Feb 2, 2021 19:51
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cant cook creole bream posted:That episode suddenly went a bit I wouldn't put much stock into anything Acca says, guy gives off massive Kyubey vibes. Was practically screaming at Ai to open the egg in the first episode.
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Feb 2, 2021 19:52
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when it explained how girls commit suicide as a spur of the moment, irrational and emotional act while boys act with a plan and get things done. Honestly, that felt uncomfortable.
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Omnicrom posted:I'm wondering now if whatever dreamscape the people go to is based on where their important person died. Ai goes to a school and we know Koito jumped off the roof, Momoe goes to a train station and her statue looks like it jumped onto the tracks. It leads me to think that Chiemi starved to death out in the field where her dreamscape is set.
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Feb 2, 2021 20:13
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https://formeinfullbloom.wordpress.com/2021/02/02/the-system-of-wonder-egg-priority/
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Feb 2, 2021 20:18
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I kinda disagree with their focus on gacha games:quote:In looking at the influences of Wonder Egg Priority, it’s apparent from the first episode that the not-so-coincidentally-framed-as-a-gacha-game system is rigged. The question isn’t whether it’s a scam, but what type of scam is it? Aca and Ura-aca reiterate that the first egg is free, but the rest of the eggs will cost you. In that same first episode Kurumi Saijo tells protagonist Ai Ohto that nothing costs more than a free gift.
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Feb 2, 2021 20:37
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The fact that it's a gachapon is relevant - they're buying eggs in the hope that one of them will help, with no guaranteed end goal. That said I think that's intended as a metaphor for an emotional journey rather than a critique of gacha games.
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Feb 2, 2021 20:59
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The fact that it's a gachapon is relevant - they're buying eggs in the hope that one of them will help, with no guaranteed end goal. That said I think that's intended as a metaphor for an emotional journey rather than a critique of gacha games.
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Feb 2, 2021 21:07
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yeah i dont think the series is really making a commentary on gacha video games. especially since a japanese audience wouldnt associate the visual of a gachapon machine with gacha video games at all - gacha video games are called that because they're similar to gachapon, gachapon isn't called that because its similar to mobage. gachapon have been around forever and are a cute, ubiquitous part of being a kid in japan, that's the visual the series is playing on. 'the first one's free' is more a drug thing than anything. i think if the series were going for a gacha game thing the eggs would be digital and the people they're saving would be popping out of their phones or something.
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Feb 2, 2021 21:26
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Elephant Parade posted:Agreed. I'm not saying the gachapon machine is irrelevant, just that the focus on gacha video games is weird. That particular writer does some writing about F2P videogames as a separate thing so I think that's likely why it resonated with her. I don't think the show is specifically referencing gacha games, but I think there's lots of reasons to think the WEP system is exploitative, even if the social aspect around the "game" is something positive, which is a similarity to certain gacha type games.
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Feb 2, 2021 21:36
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Acca just wants those sweet 500￥ coins.
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Feb 2, 2021 21:45
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Even the setup of the convo is a little weird to me; Neiru is confused by Momoe seemingly because they believe they are male, and this prompts the mannequins' spiel but like, why would Momoe showing up be indicative of the gender of those who committed suicide whom the kids are trying to save? Did I miss a conversation in the early eps that they had to be one in the same?
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Feb 2, 2021 21:55
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but hot drat when she was dualwielding those penlight blades that was my poo poo!! I love this show.
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Feb 2, 2021 22:08
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Elephant Parade posted:I kinda disagree with their focus on gacha games: And I disagree with pretty much everything they wrote. The article completely ignores the way Ura/Aca encouraged the girls to befriend one another, which conveniently undermines a lot of the articles argument. The article feels like it's trying to read into something that isn't there.
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Feb 2, 2021 22:16
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Nate RFB posted:Even the setup of the convo is a little weird to me; Neiru is confused by Momoe seemingly because they believe they are male, and this prompts the mannequins' spiel but like, why would Momoe showing up be indicative of the gender of those who committed suicide whom the kids are trying to save? Did I miss a conversation in the early eps that they had to be one in the same? No, you didn't miss anything, and I think it's supposed to be a weird thing out of left field. Neiru is definitely holding something back... An off-the-cuff hypothesis from just now, someone previously asked whether Neiru had a medical condition and that she might look much younger than she actually is, I'm now wondering if this is true and the reason she appears as she does is related to the eggs. There's something slightly off about how the show depicts their injuries from the dreamworld. We know that injuries in the dream carryover into the waking world, but it's not yet clear to what extent this happens or if there is any long-term effect. In the first episode Ai was bleeding pretty badly, but she was released a day later. Rika also seems to have had no ill effects from being totally petrified. Meanwhile, Neiru is stretchered into the hospital (how badly did her solo attempt go?) and recovers much faster than the doctors expected. Like, within what seems like two days she is literally doing gymnastic flips in the physical therapy room leading them to release her. What's actually going on here? Ai mentions that after her dreamworld escapades she think she's in way better shape than she was previously as a shut-in, and it's been what? A week? Is there some kind of knock on effect or physical benefit from their adventures? People have been making Madoka comparisons, but is there something going on like with the Soul Gems? Like, maybe Neiru has actually been protecting eggs for a REALLY long time and has been doing it as a way to maintain her youth? Maybe the Neiru that we and Ai see isn't actually her true appearance somehow? Maybe some people see her as an adult or as a child depending on context. The arcade that the egg machine is in looks really old, maybe Neiru was one of the original egg watchers and all of her peers got some kind of closure (or died…) but she never stopped for purely selfish reasons? Maybe that's why she needs so many eggs as well, the effect is wearing off... If nothing else the show has asked at least once whether or not the girls are doing this more for their own sake then for the sake of their dead friends, and if Neiru is taking stupid risks because she's developed a tolerance for egg magic then that carries forward the uncomfortable drug metaphor: the first hit is free…
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Feb 2, 2021 22:42
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Is there another translation of the Acca scene out there somewhere? Feels like it was a worse translation generally than the previous episodes.
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Feb 3, 2021 02:04
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an actual dog posted:Is there another translation of the Acca scene out there somewhere? Feels like it was a worse translation generally than the previous episodes. fwiw, a professional translator I'm acquainted with claims the TL is on point there and that the convo is just strange that way.
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Feb 3, 2021 02:53
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Spiritus Nox posted:fwiw, a professional translator I'm acquainted with claims the TL is on point there and that the convo is just strange that way. cool, thank you!
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Feb 3, 2021 02:58
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my guess is that acca is just a malevolent piece of poo poo and not terribly honest
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Feb 3, 2021 03:22
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I was super confused by that conversation as well as first, especially Rika's weird "no discrimination" line that felt like it came completely out of left field, but I think what the conversation was actually getting is that while all the statues are girls (because only girls who regret their suicide get the chance to come back), the egg hunters themselves don't actually need to be female. Hence "you don't need to get hung up on gender" (of the actual egg hunters) and the "no discrimination" line is just Rika being a poo poo and parroting Acca to annoy Neiru. The "women emotional men logical" poo poo is still weird but I'm willing to just chalk it up to the awful mannequins being awful for now.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:51
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The mannequins actually suggesting the girls befriend each other actually throws me off a lot. I don't know what to think about them now.
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Feb 3, 2021 04:45
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It's interesting isn't it? I guess it can go both ways - if they are exploitative and nefarious I think it can still make sense, since the girls' friendship will help tie them to the project and keep them doing the thing when individually they might quit. Good old peer pressure.
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Feb 3, 2021 04:51
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Also, minor note, but I think the fangirls' wonder killer is actually tied to them. She has a line about 'don't you want to die colorfully!?' and the topic of social pressure into suicide comes up later in the ep. It reads to me like she was one of the people spreading around the suggestion of imitating the idol they were into, which'd make her responsible for the fangirls dying, which'd explain why she's their wonder killer. rather than taking away their joy, she used that joy to manipulate them into doing something awful.
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Feb 3, 2021 05:08
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Just because Acca and Ura-Acca are running a (likely) exploitative system doesn't mean every action they take is automatically nefarious. After all, people who do something bad don't only do bad things thereafter. Acca and Ura-Acca (presumably) believe in the necessity of whatever system they're participating in, even if that system is harmful to the egg hunters... but that doesn't mean they harbor negative intentions toward them. Maybe they, valuing friendship as 99% of people and people-analogues do, just think that the egg hunters would be good friends for each other and want to facilitate that. That doesn't absolve them of their (as of yet uncertain) misdeeds—but it does mean that them doing something nice is neither a character contradiction nor automatically part of some evil plot, any more than it is for an abusive boss to give five bucks to a homeless person. Like, we don't really know enough about them to say for sure—we don't even know if they're distinct individuals or just two dummies the voice talks through, as it did the bug—but my reading is that they're just really lukewarm authority figures. They're complicit in what may or may not be a toxic system, they're really iffy on some topics, and they aren't willing to render concrete aid to the people they ought to be responsible for... but they don't actually bear any ill will, and they're willing to do incredibly basic things like suggest that the egg hunters become friends or tell someone "maybe breaking 50 eggs at once isn't a great idea". Elephant Parade fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 05:13
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honestly, i feel like trying to manipulate them into friendship would be just as likely to backfire by giving them a support system that allows them to move on from the game entirely.
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Feb 3, 2021 05:19
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I'm a little leery of assigning traditional ideas of agency or morality directly to Acca/UraAcca at all tbh - so far I wouldn't be at all surprised if they wind up being something closer to a force of nature or an avatar of an inhuman system moreso than people with concrete goals and motivations of their own.
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Feb 3, 2021 05:30
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I'm still really unclear on whether those guys even exist in the real, physical world. It kinda seems like you have to dream your way into that place where they hang out. We've seen how Ai drops down into a pit to get there, but we've never seen how anyone leaves. But then, the whole point is that you pay for the eggs, so I guess it's in the real world so you can actually bring the cash?
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Feb 3, 2021 05:44
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I guess whether or not you have five bucks to spend on something important holds a lot of psychological weight for teenagers. It's another token of adolescence, and it reflects their vulnerability and reliance upon adults to navigate the world. I think Momoe is forcing herself to be boyish because the girl who loved her found that attractive. She clearly takes it seriously (close-ups of her high quality, well-polished shoes, using boku, going by the folk boy-hero moniker Momotaro), but she's also forcing it on herself. TBH I had a gay phase where I cut my hair short and wore menswear because I wanted girls to like me, so I feel her struggle. It's pretty funny that her friend's name was Haruka (Sailor Uranus).
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Feb 3, 2021 06:20
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Spiritus Nox posted:I'm a little leery of assigning traditional ideas of agency or morality directly to Acca/UraAcca at all tbh - so far I wouldn't be at all surprised if they wind up being something closer to a force of nature or an avatar of an inhuman system moreso than people with concrete goals and motivations of their own. So far the consistent theme with them is yin-yang dualism. Hipster and business man, but both being formless mannequins beneath. Go pieces with one black and the other white. It's not the sort of thing that lends itself to malevolence.
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Feb 3, 2021 06:41
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LostRook posted:So far the consistent theme with them is yin-yang dualism. Yeah - and, to be clear, not the sort of thing that lends itself to kindness, ether. A tornado isn't really out to get you when it flattens your house any more than the rain is trying to do you a favor when it helps your farm grow.
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Feb 3, 2021 07:34
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Cephas posted:I guess whether or not you have five bucks to spend on something important holds a lot of psychological weight for teenagers. It's another token of adolescence, and it reflects their vulnerability and reliance upon adults to navigate the world. I think it's the opposite - she's forcing herself to be boyish because everyone else thinks that's how she should be. Maybe her parents wanted a boy? Her special person is clearly special to her because she saw her as a girl, and valued her for that. Note that they're both wearing girl's uniforms during their scene together - that seems super important.
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Feb 3, 2021 13:01
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Darth Walrus posted:I think it's the opposite - she's forcing herself to be boyish because everyone else thinks that's how she should be. Maybe her parents wanted a boy? Her special person is clearly special to her because she saw her as a girl, and valued her for that. Note that they're both wearing girl's uniforms during their scene together - that seems super important. Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry. She seems like she's not doing it for her own sake, but for other people, and it's a burden on her.
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Feb 3, 2021 15:57
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The episode ended with a reveal that she shares a family name with the bad vibes teacher, so there's several very dark possible reasons for her dressing like a boy.
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Feb 3, 2021 16:04
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I don't see why everyone thinks Teacher is going to be the big bad. The theory that he's dating Ai's mom is far more plausible to me. I feel like the show is setting up the girls to be their own final boss, that they all feel they are the reason the person they are trying to save died, not some other outside actor.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:19
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Momoe might be a trans girl! At least wrt, like, "you have such broad shoulders," "you don't deserve to ride on the women's car," these feel very... targeted. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but I feel like that's a possible read of her situation?
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Feb 3, 2021 18:19
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Yawgmoft posted:I don't see why everyone thinks Teacher is going to be the big bad. The theory that he's dating Ai's mom is far more plausible to me. I feel like the show is setting up the girls to be their own final boss, that they all feel they are the reason the person they are trying to save died, not some other outside actor.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:20
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Poltergrift posted:Momoe might be a trans girl! At least wrt, like, "you have such broad shoulders," "you don't deserve to ride on the women's car," these feel very... targeted. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but I feel like that's a possible read of her situation? They specifically mentioned that she's got no Adam's apple, and her flashback showed her in a girl's school uniform. Pretty sure she's just a masculine cis girl who likes being appreciated by other girls, but would prefer that they did it because they found her pretty rather than because they found her handsome.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:23
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Nate RFB posted:That'd be a kind of lovely direction to take and would be kind of victim blaming IMO. Echoing this and also dating a kid’s mom when you’re counseling their child seems pretty hosed to begin with
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Feb 3, 2021 18:28
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Nate RFB posted:That'd be a kind of lovely direction to take and would be kind of victim blaming IMO.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:35
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