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Let's start with the basics: I don't know them. I'm not a car person and know almost nothing about them besides press pedal makes car go vroom. Recently I had a car get totaled, the other driver was an old woman who admitted fault to the insurance company so I got the claim processed right away. That being said the totaled car was a piece of poo poo so I didn't really get much and I am also, due to the pandemic, under-employed at a low-wage job I don't even work full time. It looked like I was going to have to bike to work in the middle of winter. But wait! I ran into an old friend who is a car guy and he was going to sell me an economy car from the 90s at a friend price. The claim settlement would pay for the car completely. It's in good condition. Only problem? It's a stick shift. Well, he says he'll teach me and I buy the car from him. After two whole lessons today was my first day driving the car by myself. I had a hill-start that took me 30 minutes and furious googling to pull off and after successfully driving the car around a fairly hilly part of town and doing several starts I somehow forgot everything less than a block away from my house and stalled repeatedly at a stop sign on a hill. I did not successfully remember my training and instead made it across the intersection in 4 sputters then stalls before putting the car in neutral and riding down hill towards the parking spot. When I google manual transmission youtube videos they all seem designed for people with high-performance sports cars not under-powered economy cars who are trying to figure out how to commute to work without such bourgeois luxuries as a "tachometer" (I do not have a tachometer. I am supposed to figure out the cars revs by ear.) Question one: roughly how long will it be until I don't feel like I defied death after every drive?
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Jan 15, 2021 08:09
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| # ? May 3, 2024 05:52 |
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Disclaimer: where I'm from, manuals are the norm and what you are taught on during driver's ed. Also, some nomenclature: clutch engaged = engine and wheels connected. Clutch disengaged = engine and wheels not connected. Some rules: Always engage clutch smoothly and slowly. Disengage clutch rapidly. It's fine to brake with the clutch engaged, but be prepared to disengage before stopping completely, otherwise the engine will also be forced to go to 0 RPM, thus stalling it. When engaging the clutch, give a little throttle. Make that a little more if starting uphill. Don't ride the clutch. Also, try, on a quiet street or in a parking lot, to get going in, let's say 1st, and try to go as fast and as slow as you can, in that gear, get a feel for things.
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Jan 15, 2021 10:40
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Question one: roughly how long will it be until I don't feel like I defied death after every drive? ime, one week to get to this point, then a couple months for everything to become muscle memory and you dont even consciously think about shifting
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Jan 15, 2021 10:42
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I learned to drive in autos. First car I bought was a manual. Had a friend drop me 50 miles from home to pick it up, so I had to learn fast. A few weeks and it’ll feel natural. A while longer and autos will feel frustrating to drive. I’ve just switched back from a manual (that I had 13 years) to an auto and I miss the extra control.
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Jan 15, 2021 10:55
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Find an empty flat parking lot and practice getting going with zero throttle input. Just feather the clutch until you can get rolling at idle. Once you get the hang of the clutch engagement point, start adding a little throttle until you can take off normally. Keep RPMs low.
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Jan 15, 2021 14:51
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Honestly the only thing that is gonna make you better is practice. Starting and stopping is the hardest, so I agree with the idea of starting and stopping in a parking lot or in a relatively quiet neighborhood. Do exactly what you would do at a light, get going, shift in to 2nd, then stop. Rinse and repeat. As you get more comfortable, find some areas with slope and up the difficulty level. A couple hundred reps will have you in good shape. The rest is pretty easy and you'll basically pick it up through osmosis. To help yourself, here were certain intersections around town that I would avoid, eg the ones with steep hills up to a stoplight. Just figure out how to go around. This may be harder if you live in say, Pittsburgh or San Francisco.
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Jan 15, 2021 15:20
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angryrobots posted:Find an empty flat parking lot and practice getting going with zero throttle input. Just feather the clutch until you can get rolling at idle. Do this, you will learn the exact point at which your clutch starts to engage. Then you can bring the clutch pedal to exactly the engagement point and quickly add a bit of throttle as the pedal passes this point. Practice this for a day or two and you'll internalize the muscle movements. Also since you provided no reference I will assume you are driving a 1996 geo prizm, a great economy car if I've ever seen one.
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Jan 15, 2021 15:34
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:Do this, you will learn the exact point at which your clutch starts to engage. Then you can bring the clutch pedal to exactly the engagement point and quickly add a bit of throttle as the pedal passes this point. Practice this for a day or two and you'll internalize the muscle movements. 1998 honda civic hatchback BIG FLUFFY DOG fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jan 15, 2021 |
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Jan 15, 2021 15:43
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drat that woulda been my second guess! Nice commuter car though, treat that thing right and it should last forever (make sure you keep oil in it).
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Jan 15, 2021 15:59
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If you're not already doing so, using your handbrake is an essential tool for learning how to set off. Handbrake on, car in 1st, ease your foot off the clutch slowly and at the bite point where the clutch itself starts to engage with the flywheel you'll feel the car want to set off. From here you can disengage the handbrake and the car will start to very slowly move forwards. Let off the clutch more, add a little gas and you're away. Understanding that the engine is constantly spinning and you're physically engaging the gearbox with the clutch might help. The engine always wants to sit about 1000rpm (obviously not every engine) spinning freely out of gear and with no gas pedal added. When you put the car in gear and let off the clutch it engages the spinning engine which loads it and unless you have a buff engine or you're on flat ground it'll cause the revs to drop and possibly stall it. The accelerator just controls how fast over that ~1000rpm baseline the engine spins, the clutch is how you apply that rpm to the drivetrain to move the car. Obviously if you're on a hill you'll need more gas to stop you stalling when you engage the clutch. It takes time to get used to your car so just practice with it. The handbrake is 100% your friend though, I use mine all the time in traffic because gently caress sitting balancing the car on a partially engaged clutch.
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Jan 15, 2021 15:59
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bolind posted:Disclaimer: where I'm from, manuals are the norm and what you are taught on during driver's ed. I assume this is Britain since half the manual videos I've watched are by Cockney driving instructors who talk with their hands
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Jan 15, 2021 16:55
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Let's start with the basics: I don't know them. Where do you live? If you're anywhere near central new york, you're welcome to come and take my accord for a spin. Edit: I grew up around here and learned to drive on a manual car. What helped me early on was to get the clutches bite point seared into my muscle memory by sitting on a slight incline (my parents' driveway worked for this), nose uphill, car idling, and feather the clutch to get the car to roll forward. From there, I started to add a little gas to the process to get moving quicker. That, and knowing that I needed to be in second gear for any right angle turn at an intersection were a great start for me. I didn't have a tach either, and I didn't have a handbrake (manual dodge caravan), so hill starts were a bit dicey. You'll get it. Go for drives at night. glyph fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Jan 15, 2021 |
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Jan 15, 2021 16:58
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While the guy is somewhat polarizing in AI circles, his video series on how to drive stick is really good and I have used it a few times in the past with family members and friends. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waeOibnmuJk
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Jan 15, 2021 17:00
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McTinkerson posted:While the guy is somewhat polarizing in AI circles, his video series on how to drive stick is really good and I have used it a few times in the past with family members and friends. Thanks this was very helpful. I'll see if I can fit driving shoes into my budget.
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Jan 15, 2021 17:11
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Thanks this was very helpful. I'll see if I can fit driving shoes into my budget. For true Jinba ittai, you really want to be driving bare foot.
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Jan 15, 2021 17:13
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GUESS WHO JUST MOVED THE CAR USING. ONLY THE CLUTCH? THIS GUY!
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Jan 16, 2021 02:37
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:GUESS WHO JUST MOVED THE CAR USING. ONLY THE CLUTCH? THIS GUY! WHO'S A GOOD DOG? (Seriously, fuckyea welcome to the club)
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Jan 16, 2021 02:39
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hell yeah And the great thing is once you learn the trick you can drive just about anything with a clutch after a couple of minutes to feel it out.
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Jan 16, 2021 02:50
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glyph posted:Where do you live? If you're anywhere near central new york, you're welcome to come and take my accord for a spin. Louisville. It's a bit of a drive. The downtown area is Kansas flat but the east side of the city where I live is like Cincinnatti, or Pittsburgh in that theres no truly flat ground anywhere. Probably not as bad as San Francisco though.
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Jan 16, 2021 04:24
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So good news is that if it's in good condition Hondas from that era are about the best to learn on. I'd recommend driving barefoot while you learn if you can. You'll pick up the pedal feel of the clutch much better that way. It's way easier to feel the grab/engagement point without a shoe in the way.
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Jan 16, 2021 05:01
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Thanks this was very helpful. I'll see if I can fit driving shoes into my budget. I know this is probably in jest. But all of my vehicles are manuals. The 67' is a 4 speed and the 49' is a 3 speed and my scion is a 5 speed. They are all pretty different but honestly the 67' and 49' are probably the easiest as far as driving goes. The scion makes much less torque then either of the other vehicles. I taught my sister how to drive a stick by just bringing her to a parking lot and having her find the clutch bite. Thats really how you are going to learn, once you figure out where the clutch bites its really not that big of a deal. My dad taught me when I was like 17 on a saturn which was about as anemic of a car as they get. If you can drive a honda you can drive anything really. **edit** I should note I was REAL nervous when dad taught me to drive in the saturn. I had already been used to driving our lawn tractor around which had a clutch of sorts. So being nervous is certainly normal, but if you just go to a parking lot and practice you will be fine.
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Jan 16, 2021 07:14
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Getting moving with just the clutch also did it for me. Then you can just get used to releasing it quicker and giving gas at the same time. Actually shifting is then easy if you have some intuition from how an automatic drives. I don't think driving barefoot is necessary (I found it pretty uncomfortable) but shoes can make a big difference, just make sure you aren't wearing huge winter boots or something. Valt posted:I know this is probably in jest. But all of my vehicles are manuals. The 67' is a 4 speed and the 49' is a 3 speed and my scion is a 5 speed. They are all pretty different but honestly the 67' and 49' are probably the easiest as far as driving goes. The scion makes much less torque then either of the other vehicles. I taught my sister how to drive a stick by just bringing her to a parking lot and having her find the clutch bite. Thats really how you are going to learn, once you figure out where the clutch bites its really not that big of a deal. My dad taught me when I was like 17 on a saturn which was about as anemic of a car as they get. If you can drive a honda you can drive anything really. My parents' latest cars were automatic so I drove those for the first year or so. Picking up a manual was a matter of a few hours of practice before I could drive around normally. Not perfectly revmatched downshifts or anything, but not stalling either. In a few weeks it's pretty much on autopilot. The reason my parents' cars have been automatic is that mom never learned to drive manual, and I think it's because she was just too nervous from the driving instructors or even my dad freaking her out. It can be tricky enough on lovely  cars with no tachs, let alone when you're not used to the actual "driving on the street" part. Watch your mirrors! Who has right of way here? Your'e stalling the car! More throttle! No not like that! What was the sign we passed 50m ago? Yeah... so what I meant to say is that it should be easier since you're already comfortable driving daily and don't have to be nervous about it.
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Jan 16, 2021 10:27
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I remember the first time I changed shoes after learning to drive manual, it felt like I had to re-learn everything. Definitely don't wear gigantic winter boots, it makes it a lot harder to feel the subtle change in resistance from the clutch pedal when it's near engaging.
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Jan 16, 2021 10:41
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Keep practising! don't be surprised if you hit the wrong gear or forget to change down when pulling off every so often for the coming 6 months either. I found when i was learning (and also when i drive new cars for the first time) that if i am not feeling comfortable with something about the gearchange/driving experience that if i stop the car and get out and walk around for 10 mins and then get back in it feels better. I think it just resets your seating position and your brain position. I have to do this every time i try and drive my dads Morris as the clutch pedal is different to a conventional modern car (it comes up out of the floor rather than hanging). Its like the first time I get in my brain cant co-ordinate the different leg movements required but after a short crunchy experience and a short break it is fine.
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Jan 16, 2021 14:36
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When I teach people to drive stick, I tell them to use left foot braking for at least a week beforehand. You've been developing fine motor skills in your right leg since you've learned to drive, and now that you're left leg is back in driver's ed you need a way to jump start it to the same level. While it sounds like you don't have the luxury of practicing beforehand, you can still practice left foot braking whenever you are slowing down and not coming to a stop.
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Jan 16, 2021 17:26
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Tomarse posted:Keep practising! don't be surprised if you hit the wrong gear or forget to change down when pulling off every so often for the coming 6 months either. i just messed up a 2-3 shift in my daily driver golf yesterday, and i've been only driving and owning manual cars for 15 years with some seriously nasty urban commutes (DC/NoVA, Boston). poo poo happens for sure.
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Jan 16, 2021 18:01
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Getting the car moving with no throttle is a good thing to experience, the next step, and what you should actually be doing while driving is holding revs at, say, 1500 and then not moving that foot while you engage the clutch. No additional throttle until your foot is off the clutch. Work on this and you will be surprised at how little throttle you can use, and how quickly you can let the clutch out, to get going.
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Jan 16, 2021 19:38
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Nth-ing the suggestions ITT to learn to get the car rolling using only the clutch. Once you master that, you'll have no problems starting from a stop. Even when uphill. Try to wean yourself off of using the hand brake for hill starts. It's slower and a pain in the rear end. Then again, I'm biased because I didn't have the option of a handbrake. (Learned on a Chevy S-10 with a foot brake instead of a hand brake) Driving shoe suggestion: Old school Chuck Taylors. Thin, flat soled shoes, and can run narrow in size. Perfect for shuffling your feet around the pedal box.
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Jan 17, 2021 15:30
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I can't believe the barefoot suggestion was serious. Cars are crazy.
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Jan 17, 2021 16:32
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About six months ago, I traded in my 10 year old mazda 3 and bought a manual Miata that I couldn't drive, so I am extremely sympathetic to your position. I spent like three weeks feeling like I had made an awful mistake and I was trapped with a car that I couldn't even take down the street to the grocery store. The thing that really did it for me in terms of getting comfortable was just going out for short, five minute drives around the block. Not to go anywhere, just getting used to getting the car moving, shifting out of first and into second, out of second into third, going up a hill, going down a hill, and parking. It took a week of going out for short drives two or three times a day before I felt like I could reliably get from point A to point B with arbitrary A and B. After that, it took another couple of weeks before it all started to feel natural, and about a month before it really started to be fun.
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Jan 17, 2021 17:57
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:I can't believe the barefoot suggestion was serious. Cars are crazy. One of my favorite parts of driving in the summer.
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Jan 17, 2021 18:48
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The floor mats in my wrangler (RIP) were made of high end fake grass. Driving barefoot is excellent.
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Jan 17, 2021 19:32
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:One of my favorite parts of driving in the summer. Truth. Barefoot driving in a lovely pickup with hot metal floorboards is my teenage summers.
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Jan 17, 2021 20:57
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Rode around the neighborhood with only one stall and one slight rollback on a hill stop sign! Progress.
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Jan 18, 2021 01:51
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:I can't believe the barefoot suggestion was serious. Cars are crazy. Fair dinkum mate, I drive barefoot pretty much all year round so when I do one of the few trips per year where I have to wear shoes it feels weird as all buggery. Give it a red hot go.
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Jan 18, 2021 09:48
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Rode around the neighborhood with only one stall and one slight rollback on a hill stop sign! Progress. Awesome! Now do a tight parallel park uphill between two luxury cars in the rain, at night, while an impatient semi is honking at you! 
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Jan 18, 2021 10:47
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Olympic Mathlete posted:If you're not already doing so, using your handbrake is an essential tool for learning how to set off. This. So much this. Even after 20 years of driving stick, I still sometimes use this cheat on a steep hill. Wrar posted:So good news is that if it's in good condition Hondas from that era are about the best to learn on. Agreed, Hondas of that era are hard to kill (so long as you keep up on maintenance, like the timing belt). Barefoot driving does give you a lot better feel for the clutch too.... and anytime I get new shoes, it's like I have to re-learn the clutch. 
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Jan 18, 2021 16:38
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STR posted:This. So much this. Even after 20 years of driving stick, I still sometimes use this cheat on a steep hill. I'm not trying to make poo poo harder for myself or terrify whoever is inevitably sat far too close behind me.
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Jan 18, 2021 16:40
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Oh if someone is right on my bumper I'll make sure to maximize rollback. 
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Jan 18, 2021 16:40
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As I recall, rolling back on a hill is an auto-fail of driving test in some countries. Using the handbrake is both expected and taught.
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Jan 18, 2021 16:59
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