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Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

I was originally going to buy the land because of the cinderblock. There is actually a whole 1000 square foot building there. Most of it has cinderblock crawlspace and strip footings though in the collapsed area. There are roughly 500 cinder blocks in total. The blocks in the non collapsed area stand on a slab foundation on top of saprolite (partially weathered rock) which are in decent shape. In contrast, I can push the crawlspace cinderblock with my feet. I was going to have a structural engineer verify if the slab was okay enough for me to just close the cinderblock wall up. But the engineer suggested I look at what was supporting the low side of the slab. Which turned out to be a cinderblock retaining wall. So nope cant use it. So now I'm going to demo it. I am going to crush some of it into parking space gravel. My friend whom i help out on the hemp farm wants the rest of it. Probably for his driveway as well.

Plus I got bit by the timber frame bug.

This is actually super sound reasoning, block houses loving suck in every way imaginable, from essentially having to timberframe a house inside them to insulate properly, to falling on and crushing you in the slightest of earthquakes.you can make a small, cheap timber frames house pretty easily, and make it comfortable and nice.

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Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Compared to a running Ford V6 though?

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

I believe I answered something similar to this before. So my box truck breaks down reliably. When it breaks down I know where it has broken and can easily fix it ive managed to create fail points that are meant to fail before catastrophic damage occurs elsewhere these points are easily accessible and easily repaired. I am worried that if I adjust any part of the exhaust or intake that that would shift the dynamic. I may make changes once I rebuild the engine, but an exhaust heated floor would only work for a few hours after running the vehicle. So I dont know how useful that would be.

I think people are confused because that's not even close to how engines work.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

Yeah earthships are pretty cool. One issue with them that people don't realize is that in an earthship or any building that has a major geothermal component, is that geothermal unless you're near a volcano or particularly radioactive land usually only maintains a temperature of 55 degrees which some people are unaccustomed to living at that temperature in their leisure. Living in GroverTruk for a while, anything above 50 degrees actually feel acceptable to me now that I've adapted to it.

State code however mandates that interiors of living spaces are to be heatable to 68 degrees under winter conditions when measured a foot from a wall and 3 feet up from the floor. So geothermal isn't really allowed as a stand alone in my state.

When you say radioactive, what do you mean?

Earthships are a really cool idea, are they practical in temperate climates? I usually only see them in high desserts.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Tulip posted:

There's pretty significant variations in how radioactive soil is, mostly on the basis of its potassium, radium, uranium, and thorium concentrations. Pitchblende is an example of a pretty famously radioactive ore, since it's the one that Curie used to isolate radium.


I'm fuckin losing it

Yeah, but how would that correlate with geothermal heating?

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Well, if you have enough radioactivity in the soil, it could locally raise the temperature.

Not so much that it would differ by more than a degree or so vs the rest of the continental shield temperature, but hey, your muderhaus is now at fifty SIX degrees.

No way.

Specific heat capacity of dry soil is 800 joules/kg

1 Joule=6.242x10^12 MeV

The most energetic decay of Radium is about 14 MeV

1 decay/sec= 1 Bq of activity

So we need about 5x10^15 total decays to heat 1 kg of soil 1 degree C

Spread that over the course of a day, or 86,400 seconds and that's 5.8x10^10 Bq/kg of activity, for reference the average concentration of radionuclides earth wide is about 500 Bq from all sources, the worst contaminated areas of the Nevada test sites are about 3.7x10^6 Bq/kg of Plutonium.

370 Bq/kg yields about 1mSv of radiation 1 Meter above the ground, so 5.8x10^10 Bq/kg would yield about 1.6x10^6 Sv of radiation exposure 1M above ground, so this level of radioactivity would yield about 100,000 times the lethal dose in an hour.

I'm sure my math's incomplete, not taking into account all radionuclides and whatnot, but I'm pretty sure it's not 6 orders of magnitude off, and there's almost nowhere on earth that is radioactive enough to be substantially warmer than nearby areas simply from alpha decay, I know deeper in the earth's crust and in the core is a different story, and I'd love for someone to prove me wrong, but as someone that deals with heat produced from radioactive decay professionally, activity levels high enough to produce enough sensible heat to be useful for geothermal heating doesn't pass the sniff test. The only articles I can find about geothermal heating are in the same vein as this IAEA article talking about radionuclide residues from deep geothermal wells.



Safety Dance posted:

If you happened to live in Gabon 1.7 billion years ago, you'd get some natural radioactive heating.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor

Rytheric, fold out your murphey time machine and get some radiothermal heating.

Weird poo poo like the Gabon Reactor/Arc of the Covenant not withstanding

E: looks like 2g/Kg of Pu238 typically used in RTGs could do it, with reasonable radiation exposure, but that's a man-made isotope.

Elviscat fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Feb 5, 2021

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

builds character posted:

what if you put a lead firepit over the radioactive ground?

Well, I don't know the breakdown of that 370Bq/M/mSv thumbrule the IAEA uses, but most of the radiation exposure from naturally occurring radioisotopes should be in the form of inhalation of alpha-emitting gasses, so a properly designed firepit could conceivably be used to draw that gas in, and expel it upward, with a properly designed chimney/vent, thereby reducing exposure, much like a Radon mitigation system in a home.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

My understanding is that most of geothermal heat is the result of radioactive decay. Why would the ground that has never been heated up by the sun be warmer than the surface above if there isnt a heat input.

The heat in the core of the earth is supposedly about 50/50 left over from when the earth was formed, and from radioactive decay, in fact we can measure the amount of radioactivity in the core, and what kind of reactions are producing it, using antineutrino detectors, it's pretty neat.

But the concentrations of radioisotopes in the core are way, way, way higher than up here, because the center of the earth is mostly metal, and that's where the ultra dense radioactive metal ended up, it's even theorized that there's a decent amount of fission happening down there, but that's beyond the reach of ultra-deep boreholes, much less geothermal wells that are just tapping into a little bit of that radiated heat.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Redmark posted:

Man, as a useless city person it's impossible to tell which posts in this thread are loving around and which are talking about real things. Even "engineered lumber" is something I had no idea existed, let alone refurbished ambulances and radioactive land and epistemic crises about :skeltal:

With every Ry comment I think "this time he must be taking the piss" :shepface:

It's really crazy because OP is super passionate, and that passion carries over from things they seem very knowledgeable about (environmental remediation, efficient means of human waste disposal in various types of soil) to things they are absofuckinglutely clueless about (automobile engine cooling, smoke and heat dissipation in enclosed areas, heat generated by the decay of radionuclides in soil) seamlessly. The only thing OP seems self-aware about is that they know enough about electricity to know GroverTruk's electrical system is a fire hazard.

It's all loving insane, but I really do think that Ry has enough drive for knowledge to achieve their (possibly deranged) goals, if they're willing to listen and learn going forward.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

That is cool. Unfortunately, I'm afraid his pursuits will be in vain. No piano-like contraption can top the harpsichord unless he turns a piano into a hurdygurdy.

:hmmwrong:

The Calliope.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

You mean Asprin (acetylsalicylic acid), not Tylenol (acetaminophen) right?

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

drgitlin posted:

America allows people to use flexible plastic plumbing lines now.

You can even put insulation on them.

If you're so inclined.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

DarkEuphoria posted:

Hydronic heating/cooling is excellent, look into solar thermal evacuated tubes or plate collectors. You can run the lines with pex, which is cool and good for house construction.

As for floor insulation, it doesn’t have to be too ridiculous, but yeah you’re gonna wanna throw down some foam insulation sheets under the subfloor. I have zero advice on actually doing this to code tho.

Works well for heating the floor of a truck too, no fire barrels needed. I guess you could run a line to stick a heat collector inside a fire barrel to heat the fluid in the system. Don’t, though. Keep all fire outside of the vehicle, or in a pellet stove with chimney or whatever. A few stray sparks and your poo poo will burn to the ground.

Yeah, you can even buy subflooring with aluminum channels pre molded in for the PEX lines, it's pretty cool.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

taqueso posted:

You can build something patented for personal use (not a lawyer)

You can't necessarily buy the components or access detailed instructions for building it though.

Ry, when you say "modern techniques" I assume that means a pressurized septic system? Those things are expensive as gently caress to build, and a headache to maintain compared to the 'ol solids tank and leech field approach.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Oh yeah, Ry, this is responding to a much earlier post, but for the love of god don't plant crops, or anything over your septic drain field, best case scenario it doesn't work, worst case scenario it does, and it fills your drain field with roots, and then your liquids start coming out of the solids tank, with bonus poo.

You may get some benefit planting downhill from the septic, that's where my fruit Orchard is.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Tip posted:

My uncle bought some property and poured a foundation for a house. Then he bought a boxcar and added plumbing and electricity and french doors, just something for him and his wife to live in temporarily while they build the house.

20 years later and he never built the house, just added a second boxcar instead.

OP have you ever considered living in a boxcar? My uncle loves it. I think it cost $10,000 altogether to buy it and have it brought out to his property and placed level (this was 20 years though).

Buy your uncle an account.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Ry, don't end up like this.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

I actually read the article to this. Who has a back door going below the outhouse? I question that decision.

Probably so it can be pumped out, rather than having to relocate the shitter every few years.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Hey Ry, what's your plan for getting a timber framed building designed and produced?

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

I'm really interested to find out how economically viable that idea turns out to be.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

Define economically viable.

% price difference over a comparable stick-framed structure of the same size.

I'm building my next house, and I'm interested in timber framing, but not for sat 50% more than a nice stick built in material.

E: that's another thing I'm interested in, do you plan to do the joints? Because that's either CNC or master craftsman poo poo.

Elviscat fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Feb 21, 2021

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

Do I need paint over the poly? I want to still see the wood.

No, the poly is the protective layer.

These are my French doors that are unstained and just have clear poly over them.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

Unfortunately I don't have many useful friends like that even if I pay them. Just maybe one. I tried to recruit people for the sledgehammer demo and was met with crickets.

You are going to find lifting and setting your timbers to be difficult and dangerous then, without some sort of mechanical assistance.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

I know a few tricks from sailing on how to hoist things. Give me some rope and pulleys and some wrenches and I will get it up there if necessary or I will cut my torso in half trying. Actually I think the heaviest timber is like 500lbs or so, so I won't get hurt too bad.

What are you going to hoist it from?

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

. They quoted $3300 excluding permitting fees to survey, lay down a Plat map, and submit it to the county for record for me which is about twice my highest estimation.

Be ready for a LOT of this.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

um excuse me posted:

If well built, Murderhaus could be a 500 year structure. The oldest wood based structures are pretty much all timber framed.

So could a well built stick framed house, it's just not a building style that existed 500 years ago.

Rytheric posted:

My constraint with sips is that its expensive in my opinion, all the electric and stuff has to be preplanned and integrated into the sips at a shop, and I thought they were heavier than 100lbs.

I thought economics wasn't a concern? And hhow is a 100lb panel a problem when a 500 lb timber is not?

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Tunicate posted:

Why not compressed air tools

I don't have a bizarre aversion to noise or power tools, and I still wince when I have to fire up the compressor.

E: they did make compressors based off old Ford V8's, so maybe that'd be up Ry's alley, he can modify the cooling system to be broken, it'll be great.

Elviscat fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Feb 25, 2021

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

That is what I do when I use my power drill. I have multiple batteries charging for continuous use.

The point I was making is yes my inverter may be able to handle the corded 10 amps watt wise. But I only be able to run it for an hour because my battery capacity is 1380 watts. But more importantly thay would be expecting my battery to supply the inverter with 100 amps which is not safe nor good for my deep cycle battery. I wouldn't want to subject my battery to more than 50 amps. My inverter recommends a 60 amp fuse between it and the battery. To make effective use of a 10 amp corded one, I would need to get a second 12 volt battery and run them in series to up the voltage to a 24 volt system and to drop the current down to 50 amps.

You don't run saws continuously.

You need this though, look how perfectly it would fit in Grovertruk https://youtu.be/RXbb0so8OK0

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

I actually spoke to the neighbor today she was a lovely old lady. Apparently there is a deep grudge and dispute over the property boundary so when I do the survey. I'm going to have them stake and survey a couple of points and either give her 5 feet of the property extending past the house after I buy it if she accepts it to resolve the issue or give her an easement. Unfortunately, just giving it too her will increase her tax burden so im going to see what she wants to do.

I want to go ahead and own it, but people keep cautioning me to wait for the permits.

Awww, that's really nice of you. Easing may be easier for both of you, and allow you to reclaim the land when the house is demolished.

It is very, very smart to do a thorough job on your due diligence, it is incredibly easy to end up with a plot of worthless, unbuildable land.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

His Divine Shadow posted:

I have a friend who builds and repairs log houses. He uses a lot of hand tools and axes (some of them he forges himself), but to get things done in an economical way there are two powered tools he uses, a chain saw and an electric hand planer. The chain saw in particular is the most important power tool.

Just saying, if you feel like not going all manual on this, then a chain saw is the next step, and then would be a very durable power drill to drill holes for dowels, for aligning and holding the logs in place.

Now here is a finnish log house built entirely with hand tools
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3J5wkJFJzE

Cordless electric chainsaws, particularly the Milwaukee 18V one, are getting REALLY good, they're also very quiet, good bars, and they have more torque than a two stroke model.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

This may or may not come to a surprise, but I am actually terrified of chainsaws. One time drill lead was hand clearing in front of our drill rig and after the drilling we noticed where all his guards got nicked and he almost kicked it back to my stomach at one point. This is why I'm not even suggesting felling the Timbers myself. I've only ever chopped down something as large as my arm and not with a chainsaw. Anything bigger than that im weary of where it may fall. I'm having a company fell and shape the Timbers for me.

Ah, well I'm sure you know they can be used safely, they're a good tool to be afraid of.

If you change your mind you can always drive the murdertruk out to the West Coast and help me fell a few Alder, I should have enough for all the timbers you need, and it's supposed to be pretty good for timber framing, fairly hard, somewhat resistant to rot, and not hard enough that it's particularly hard to work with hand tools.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

I'm okay with that. Basically the cost of things is what is setting the pace and myself setting my pace. Once I get the septic permit, I have 5 years to build the septic. Hopefully I can come up with a second excavator rental within that 5 years time. (Two weeks will cover it).

What makes things hard in my opinion is people being in a rush to do things because they have to meet deadlines. My professional job would be 1000 times less stressful without all the deadlines.

Have you done a cost analysis on a used tractor with a bucket and blade vs all the excavator rentals you'll need over the course of this project? You might find buying is cheaper, and it opens up the door to things like using the bucket to lift SIPS into place.



ChickenOfTomorrow posted:

:words:

Motronic and D-LINK aren't pissing on your dreams just because they love pissing on peoples' dreams, they're pointing out pitfalls and poo poo that in their experience will make this an unpleasant and/or unsuccessful project for you. they're doing it in Irascible Dad style because i'm like 70% sure they actually are Irascible Dads.

Yeah, I wonder why all the people commenting on the thread who have construction experience are cautioning Ry that this project is going to be 2x as hard, 2x as expensive, and 4x as long as he thinks (with various levels of abrasiveness.

Must all be killjoy assholes trying to bring Ry down!

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

What about grading and digging footers?

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

No doubt. The sellers agent turns out was taking us both for a ride since he was trying to pocket 10k instead of 6%. Some of that was expected expenses though. Like the $3,000 part of his deposit going to the survey.

So you're walking the gently caress away and starting your search fresh with a Real Estate agent, right?

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

serious gaylord posted:

Poster with vast knowledge on the subject: Here is an itemised list of why this is a bad idea and how you are incorrect in your opinion. Please let me explain in detail how you will get yourself out of this mess and avoid it in future.

OP: Nuh uh.

A licensed expert in the same loving State even.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

I just cut (well, cleaned up circular saw cuts) in a couple pieces of plywood with a chisel, no one tell Rytheric.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

OH gently caress WRONG THREAD HOW DO I DELETE

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

I don't necessarily think it's a pure scam, having a lawyer look it over is a good first step.

But at the very least the owner's an rear end in a top hat, Ry, stop talking to that dickbag and start doing it through an agent, they won't be able to dick around an agent like they're dicking you around.

Absolutely do not spend another dime on this property unless a professional tells you to.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Rytheric posted:

Just spoke with a realtor. There appears to be one more complication. The owner of the land has a lien on it for the manuhome he put on it in 2014. Sounds like he would have to refinance it to exclude the part I want to buy. Then I'd have to combine two parcels when I buy it. The good news is that him having a loan means the bank didn't have issue with the border dispute. So I can probably piggyback off that.

Yo, refinancing a home is not a quick process, and there's no guarantee he can even successfully do it.

Walk.

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Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

stealie72 posted:

Perhaps some music will help
https://youtu.be/AkFqg5wAuFk

I was thinking way more goth https://youtu.be/dxucr5TSxDg

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