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9/11 was a while ago And on the global scale it set up America to enter a war of aggression in the middle east (been at war for almost as long as I've been alive -  america)So, I know it's a big deal in the sense that it provided coverage for a lot of elites to do terrible poo poo But in the general life of an American, was it momentous at all? It seems things like the war on drugs, covid, lack of universal healthcare, all that stuff has killed (or enabled more people to die) than 9/11.
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Feb 2, 2021 08:10
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To get specific, 9/11 feels like this (to me): Oh yeah, I remember when that happened, man that was crazy, anyways I wonder how many people died of COVID today Back around 9/11 I remember people putting up posters at my school with likely targets of terrorist attacks and I was encouraged to feel better because my county wasn't near anything people wanted to allegedly destroy.
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Feb 2, 2021 08:12
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9/11 was a bigger deal than anything else bad that happened because some buildings got knocked down. imagine the horror of property destruction on that scale and you will know why we sunk our nation's future into the graveyard of empires.
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Feb 2, 2021 08:13
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BeefThief posted:9/11 was a bigger deal than anything else bad that happened because some buildings got knocked down. imagine the horror of property destruction on that scale and you will know why we sunk our nation's future into the graveyard of empires. torching the Target in minneapolis was the worst thing that happened to this country since 9/11
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Feb 2, 2021 08:14
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Xaris posted:torching the Target in minneapolis was the worst thing that happened to this country since 9/11 yeah, when people die of...let's say, covid, it's actually good for the economy because number feeds on blood. it doesn't matter who is doing the bleeding
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Feb 2, 2021 08:16
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i was pretty stunned when hillary fainted and ted cruz liked porn on twitter, op. was the 9/11 either of those?
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Feb 2, 2021 09:23
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OP I'm guessing you're fairly young and probably don't have a fully developed personal sense of daily-life pre 9/11 as compared to post. That's not a knock on you or me being patronizing, in many ways pre-9/11 life is basically incomprehensible in retrospect. The short answer is "absolutely, yes, it was probably the single most history-shaping moment of the new millenium for the entire world." Not in and of itself just knocking down a couple buildings and killing 3k, but setting the groundwork for everything that came after. You know about the wars, the 2 million dead & counting, ISIS, the color revolutions, Libya, Syria, Yemen, the proliferation of polio, Uighurs, cocaine, PTSD, ICE, Occupy, Obama, Trump, Biden, Ferguson, George Floyd, the list goes on and on, but you're probably not consciously aware that all of these things are inextricably linked to 9/11 and the project to massively expand the reach and power of the carceral state in reaction to it. Even popular media post-9/11 became extremely jingoistic and fascistic, refocusing from the 90s zeitgeist of rebelling against authority to fighting off invasion/subversion from the other. That doesn't mean that other historical things haven't been happening since that are also shaping the world, they influence each other, because nothing happens in a vacuum. The important takeaway here is that osama clearly and inarguably won.
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Feb 2, 2021 09:24
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let’s be real here: Bush knocked down the towers cause he hated Helen Keller
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Feb 2, 2021 10:21
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911? gently caress off i dont believe in that stupid conspiracy poo poo. epstein didn't commit suicide? TELL ME MORE!
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Feb 2, 2021 10:29
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Quetzadilla posted:OP I'm guessing you're fairly young and probably don't have a fully developed personal sense of daily-life pre 9/11 as compared to post. That's not a knock on you or me being patronizing, in many ways pre-9/11 life is basically incomprehensible in retrospect. The short answer is "absolutely, yes, it was probably the single most history-shaping moment of the new millenium for the entire world." Not in and of itself just knocking down a couple buildings and killing 3k, but setting the groundwork for everything that came after. You know about the wars, the 2 million dead & counting, ISIS, the color revolutions, Libya, Syria, Yemen, the proliferation of polio, Uighurs, cocaine, PTSD, ICE, Occupy, Obama, Trump, Biden, Ferguson, George Floyd, the list goes on and on, but you're probably not consciously aware that all of these things are inextricably linked to 9/11 and the project to massively expand the reach and power of the carceral state in reaction to it. Even popular media post-9/11 became extremely jingoistic and fascistic, refocusing from the 90s zeitgeist of rebelling against authority to fighting off invasion/subversion from the other. Nothing to add, but 
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Feb 2, 2021 10:55
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some people did some things and then we tortured some folks
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Feb 2, 2021 11:06
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yes, op, it was
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Feb 2, 2021 11:07
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Seriously, though: Quetzadilla hit it on the head as the end of the honeymoon of the 90s, the brief interlude between Cold War and GWOT.
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Feb 2, 2021 11:09
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some would say it is the true art of the deal  bigly deal
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Feb 2, 2021 11:09
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Quetzadilla posted:OP I'm guessing you're fairly young and probably don't have a fully developed personal sense of daily-life pre 9/11 as compared to post. That's not a knock on you or me being patronizing, in many ways pre-9/11 life is basically incomprehensible in retrospect. The short answer is "absolutely, yes, it was probably the single most history-shaping moment of the new millenium for the entire world." Not in and of itself just knocking down a couple buildings and killing 3k, but setting the groundwork for everything that came after. You know about the wars, the 2 million dead & counting, ISIS, the color revolutions, Libya, Syria, Yemen, the proliferation of polio, Uighurs, cocaine, PTSD, ICE, Occupy, Obama, Trump, Biden, Ferguson, George Floyd, the list goes on and on, but you're probably not consciously aware that all of these things are inextricably linked to 9/11 and the project to massively expand the reach and power of the carceral state in reaction to it. Even popular media post-9/11 became extremely jingoistic and fascistic, refocusing from the 90s zeitgeist of rebelling against authority to fighting off invasion/subversion from the other. this is a good post. Eric Hobsbawm wrote of the long 19th century ending in 1914. The long 20th century ended on 9/11.
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Feb 2, 2021 13:14
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Quetzadilla posted:OP I'm guessing you're fairly young and probably don't have a fully developed personal sense of daily-life pre 9/11 as compared to post. That's not a knock on you or me being patronizing, in many ways pre-9/11 life is basically incomprehensible in retrospect. The short answer is "absolutely, yes, it was probably the single most history-shaping moment of the new millenium for the entire world." Not in and of itself just knocking down a couple buildings and killing 3k, but setting the groundwork for everything that came after. You know about the wars, the 2 million dead & counting, ISIS, the color revolutions, Libya, Syria, Yemen, the proliferation of polio, Uighurs, cocaine, PTSD, ICE, Occupy, Obama, Trump, Biden, Ferguson, George Floyd, the list goes on and on, but you're probably not consciously aware that all of these things are inextricably linked to 9/11 and the project to massively expand the reach and power of the carceral state in reaction to it. Even popular media post-9/11 became extremely jingoistic and fascistic, refocusing from the 90s zeitgeist of rebelling against authority to fighting off invasion/subversion from the other. yeah this is it right here I feel like "the 90s" ended September 10, 2001, loving everything before then seems so loving quaint now
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Feb 2, 2021 15:03
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Well, if not for 9/11 Fox News wouldn't have destroyed an entire generation and sent us QAnon and Trump. So, yea, pretty impactful.
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Feb 2, 2021 16:43
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Yes
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Feb 2, 2021 16:49
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never heard of 9/11 op, but 311 rules
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Feb 2, 2021 17:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn-2T_LKiso
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Feb 2, 2021 17:12
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If bush would have been truthful about engineering the 9/11 attacks in order to get into more wars, absolutely nothibg would have been different
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Feb 2, 2021 17:18
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I'm pretty sure US was taking part in aggressive wars in middle east decades before 9/11, possibly precipitating the event itself
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Feb 2, 2021 17:47
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Quetzadilla posted:OP I'm guessing you're fairly young and probably don't have a fully developed personal sense of daily-life pre 9/11 as compared to post. That's not a knock on you or me being patronizing, in many ways pre-9/11 life is basically incomprehensible in retrospect. The short answer is "absolutely, yes, it was probably the single most history-shaping moment of the new millenium for the entire world." Not in and of itself just knocking down a couple buildings and killing 3k, but setting the groundwork for everything that came after. You know about the wars, the 2 million dead & counting, ISIS, the color revolutions, Libya, Syria, Yemen, the proliferation of polio, Uighurs, cocaine, PTSD, ICE, Occupy, Obama, Trump, Biden, Ferguson, George Floyd, the list goes on and on, but you're probably not consciously aware that all of these things are inextricably linked to 9/11 and the project to massively expand the reach and power of the carceral state in reaction to it. Even popular media post-9/11 became extremely jingoistic and fascistic, refocusing from the 90s zeitgeist of rebelling against authority to fighting off invasion/subversion from the other. Good post tbh.
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Feb 2, 2021 18:21
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9/11 was an intelligence flub but boy howdy did Bush and the ruling class know how to take advantage of it
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Feb 2, 2021 18:34
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Yes, it plunged Chile into fascism for decades.
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Feb 2, 2021 18:37
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX1SojKfgNI
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Feb 2, 2021 18:49
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Quetzadilla posted:OP I'm guessing you're fairly young and probably don't have a fully developed personal sense of daily-life pre 9/11 as compared to post. That's not a knock on you or me being patronizing, in many ways pre-9/11 life is basically incomprehensible in retrospect. The short answer is "absolutely, yes, it was probably the single most history-shaping moment of the new millenium for the entire world." Not in and of itself just knocking down a couple buildings and killing 3k, but setting the groundwork for everything that came after. You know about the wars, the 2 million dead & counting, ISIS, the color revolutions, Libya, Syria, Yemen, the proliferation of polio, Uighurs, cocaine, PTSD, ICE, Occupy, Obama, Trump, Biden, Ferguson, George Floyd, the list goes on and on, but you're probably not consciously aware that all of these things are inextricably linked to 9/11 and the project to massively expand the reach and power of the carceral state in reaction to it. Even popular media post-9/11 became extremely jingoistic and fascistic, refocusing from the 90s zeitgeist of rebelling against authority to fighting off invasion/subversion from the other. what do you think osama bin laden's goals were and why do you think they overlapped with endless american occupation of the middle east
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Feb 2, 2021 18:50
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a few DRUNK BONERS posted:what do you think osama bin laden's goals were and why do you think they overlapped with endless american occupation of the middle east https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/attrition.asp#:~:text=Attrition%20is%20a%20process%20in,and%20reduce%20payroll%20than%20layoffs.
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Feb 2, 2021 19:12
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Quetzadilla posted:OP I'm guessing you're fairly young and probably don't have a fully developed personal sense of daily-life pre 9/11 as compared to post. That's not a knock on you or me being patronizing, in many ways pre-9/11 life is basically incomprehensible in retrospect. The short answer is "absolutely, yes, it was probably the single most history-shaping moment of the new millenium for the entire world." Not in and of itself just knocking down a couple buildings and killing 3k, but setting the groundwork for everything that came after. You know about the wars, the 2 million dead & counting, ISIS, the color revolutions, Libya, Syria, Yemen, the proliferation of polio, Uighurs, cocaine, PTSD, ICE, Occupy, Obama, Trump, Biden, Ferguson, George Floyd, the list goes on and on, but you're probably not consciously aware that all of these things are inextricably linked to 9/11 and the project to massively expand the reach and power of the carceral state in reaction to it. Even popular media post-9/11 became extremely jingoistic and fascistic, refocusing from the 90s zeitgeist of rebelling against authority to fighting off invasion/subversion from the other. 
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Feb 2, 2021 19:21
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what happened on november 9?
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Feb 2, 2021 19:29
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a few DRUNK BONERS posted:what do you think osama bin laden's goals were and why do you think they overlapped with endless american occupation of the middle east luring the world empire into the graveyard of empires pretty suss imo
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Feb 2, 2021 19:31
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Feb 2, 2021 19:32
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a few DRUNK BONERS posted:what do you think osama bin laden's goals were and why do you think they overlapped with endless american occupation of the middle east I don't really remember the videos he put out but he basically flailed at the heart of american empire and (I think accidentally) struck an artery because what followed allowed total realignment into lockstep with the MIC and subsequent grift/graft/mckinseyification of it all along with bringing the imperial periphery into the imperial core in a major way which has hyperaccelerated America's decline as world hegemon. To be clear all of this was already set up as the cold war wound down and the war on drugs/crime was being pitched to replace it but the war on terror was a godsend to the ghouls at the top. I mean they could've pivoted to that with the first WTC bombing, or kaczynski (unabomber), or mcveigh (OKC bombing), or the ATL olympic bombing, or the multiple murders/bombings of abortion doctors/clinics perpetrated by the Army of God and affiliated orgs, etc etc that all happened in the 90s. The problem with those incidents is that with the exception of WTC 1, these were all homegrown mostly white supremacists' actions, and we all know how much the powers that be loathe to police their own. Even if the ghouls were motivated, it lacked any justification to expand militarily which was the real vacuum left behind after the soviet collapse. I suspect WTC 1 would've been 9/11 but 8 years earlier had the pieces already been in place to execute on prosecuting the War on Terror at that time, and maybe if it had actually succeeded in destroying the tower it would have anyway. But I think that event truly caught the ghouls flat-footed and set them on the path of really capitalizing next time it happened. Like maybe 9/11 wouldn't have been what it was without the dry run of WTC 1 to have them get their affairs in order. And get their affairs in order they did, as evidenced by us immediately storming into Iraq who had gently caress-all to do with 9/11. The '98 US embassy bombings by the exact same people couldn't have been the inflection-point because they happened abroad in a place americans don't give a poo poo about (Africa), and as such could not drum up the necessary public support/outrage to put the WoT in motion. I think the only real preview of what was to come from the consent manufactory on 9/11 was the reaction to the ELF actions of the late 90s. Admittedly this is going deep in my memory where things get real hazy, but I don't think anyone in America had even died due ELF actions at that point (has anyone even died in America to-date from them?) but the consensus reaction was disciplined and damning. They were both unhinged loonies to be looked down on and made fun of, and serious threats to your personal safety. Not the royal you, specifically you the person consuming this media. Okay I've gotten pretty far afield of your question, but I don't pretend to know what was in osama's heart aside from a deep love of hentai. As a wealthy saudi heir I don't think he gave one single poo poo about what would happen to afghanistan. His family were rich and safely tucked away in saudi arabia/america and also close personal friends of the Bushes and whisked to safety after 9/11.
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Feb 2, 2021 19:40
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Feb 2, 2021 19:44
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Hi thanks for the question: my answer is that 9/11 seems like a pretty big deal
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Feb 2, 2021 19:46
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those towers are still there. bush never even existed
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Feb 2, 2021 19:48
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Oh I just want to add that pre-9/11 the three letter agencies were an absolutely tiny fraction of what they are now. It's impossible to overstate how much the formation of the DHS and reorganization of the agencies grew the surveillance and prosecution apparatus. The CIA was tiny, the FBI were the big dick-swingers, and no one had even heard of the NSA. ICE was still INS and mostly tasked with bureaucratic paperwork and hassling migrant farmworkers. DEA/ATF were kind of on the rise because of the war on drugs/crime, but still nothing compared to post-9/11. Every one of these agencies absolutely exploded since 9/11 provided a reason for all of them to do so and gave their respective jurisdictions a slice of anti-terrorism pie. Now even the loving NYPD has their own international intelligence agency no loving joke.
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Feb 2, 2021 19:50
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My favorite 9/11 consequence is a rambling YouTube comment from years ago where this jaded British raver is talking about how UK garage music was really upbeat and everything was great until 9/11, and then the whole national attitude changed and garage became darker and spawned grime and dubstep. So from this persons point of view 9/11 led to dubstep.
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Feb 2, 2021 19:51
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titty_baby_ posted:My favorite 9/11 consequence is a rambling YouTube comment from years ago where this jaded British raver is talking about how UK garage music was really upbeat and everything was great until 9/11, and then the whole national attitude changed and garage became darker and spawned grime and dubstep. So from this persons point of view 9/11 led to dubstep. drat now i love 9/11
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Feb 2, 2021 19:53
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Yeah from this i could say 9/11 led to me collecting records and djing so thats cool
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Feb 2, 2021 20:00
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