#metoo and the impact of rape culture

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > #metoo and the impact of rape culture

Yinlock: Oct 22, 2008

The idea that Epstein wasn't collecting a big ol blackmail folder from visitations to Pedo Island is patently absurd.

It's the most basic rule of ruling-class horrific sex crime rings: make sure enough powerful people are "initiated" so that everyone goes down if someone starts having morals all of a sudden. A lot of powerful people have a very, very vested interest in this issue stopping immediately at Epstein himself and going no further.

# ? Aug 11, 2021 04:54

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 17:49

the_steve: Nov 9, 2005; We're always hiring!

Yinlock posted:

The idea that Epstein wasn't collecting a big ol blackmail folder from visitations to Pedo Island is patently absurd.

It's the most basic rule of ruling-class horrific sex crime rings: make sure enough powerful people are "initiated" so that everyone goes down if someone starts having morals all of a sudden. A lot of powerful people have a very, very vested interest in this issue stopping immediately at Epstein himself and going no further.

I doubt he'd have been murdered if he didn't have a Big Book of Blackmail that the "right" people didn't want seeing the light of day

# ? Aug 11, 2021 05:10

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

The Time's-Up adjacency to and apologism for Cuomo's actions have led to some good followup pieces looking at the issue of liberal power structures, and how that affects their advocacy on behalf of victims--and, more importantly, the lack thereof.

The NYT piece posted Sunday laid out the case:

quote:

Time�s Up was built on a bold premise: Ultra-connected women would pool their access and influence to push for gender equity. But even before the allegations against Mr. Cuomo, confusion and controversy had been building inside the group over its leadership�s ties � and help � to those in power, according to interviews with dozens of current and former board members, employees and other advocates, as well as a review of internal documents.

***

Where to draw the line has come up again and again. In spring 2020, Ms. Tchen, an Obama administration veteran, helped hold back a letter from women�s groups prodding Joseph R. Biden Jr. to respond more quickly to a sexual misconduct allegation � even as she raised funds for his campaign as a private citizen.

About the same time, after Ms. Tchen discussed a new for-profit consulting arm that could allow her and others to advise corporations, including those facing abuse accusations, board and staff members grew concerned, according to meeting notes. The plan never moved forward.

***

When it came to doing political work outside the organization, �we didn�t have formal conflict policies,� said Hilary Rosen, a Washington strategist and co-founder. �We had a level of trust among each other.�

***

Then Tara Reade, a former Biden aide, accused him of inappropriately touching her decades ago; she later claimed that he had sexually assaulted her. While Mr. Biden�s campaign denied the allegations, he stayed publicly silent. So did Time�s Up.

In April last year, several women�s rights groups began crafting a public letter calling on him to address Ms. Reade�s account. �Vice President Biden has the opportunity, right now, to model how to take serious allegations seriously,� one draft of the letter said.

Ms. Tchen conveyed that she wanted the groups to hold off, according to people inside and outside. She was in contact with the Biden campaign; he would soon respond, and they should not get in the way, she said. (A spokeswoman said Ms. Tchen opposed the letter because the call to action wasn�t clear enough.)

Mr. Biden finally spoke about the allegations in a MSNBC interview on May 1, denying them. That day, Ms. Tchen appeared on the same network, commending him for his transparency, and Time�s Up released a complimentary statement. That evening, she joined a Biden fund-raising event online with other Obama administration alumni.

While some board members and allies defended her political activities, others were asking whose interests the Time�s Up leaders were putting first: Ms. Reade�s, or Mr. Biden�s?

The NYT piece links to a letter that assault & harassment victims addressed to the organization as well as to the National Women's Law Center. From that letter:

quote:

TIME�S UP has prioritized its proximity to power over mission. And now that TIME�S UP�s board members� and staff�s actions have come to light, you cannot rewrite history by signing open letters to the New York State Senate and Assembly calling on them to remove Governor Cuomo from office when you actively worked to further his defense behind closed doors.

Instead of helping survivors remain at the center of our own stories, we find out in the press that you were consulted by abusers to aid them in victim-blaming and undermining our ability to come forward. This behavior harms all survivors. This behavior discourages survivors from seeking support and speaking out and causes ripples of distrust felt throughout our movement. This behavior has us questioning who we can truly trust. Whether or not you agreed to help, perpetrators of harm felt comfortable reaching out to you for crisis management. That is a problem.

Today the Chicago Trib published a great opinion piece by a columnist summing things up:

quote:

Is Time�s Up re-creating the very systems it�s pledged to fight?

I have a theory about the limitations that exist when we rely on power brokers to hold one another accountable. You can�t rise to these exalted positions without buying into the system itself. Which means, regardless of gender or race or disability or religion or socioeconomic background, individuals at the top are rarely radically-minded people. They operate in exclusive spaces and speak a shared language and are attuned to protecting all that they�ve accumulated, be it wealth or influence or all of the above.

***

It�s never easy to step forward and speak truth to power. There are always consequences. Financial consequences. Which is maybe why we have yet to hear from the many boldface names who initially signed on to the Time�s Up initiative. But does it seem like there�s a conspicuous lack of public anger � or even concern � from the very people who put their weight behind this effort in 2018? Rhimes has a deal at Netflix that makes her one of the highest paid TV producers in Hollywood. Witherspoon sold her company Hello Sunshine this month for $900 million. Is it naive to think that wealth and clout on that scale is enough to empower people to ask uncomfortable questions?

***

In her 2018 Golden Globes speech, Winfrey talked about her TV and film output, describing her work as an effort �to say something about how men and women really behave. To say how we experience shame, how we love and how we rage, how we fail, how we retreat, persevere and how we overcome.�

Missing from that list were any words about confronting and radically reimagining power structures. Perhaps because doing so is thornier and more complicated. Especially for members of the power class themselves.

# ? Aug 24, 2021 20:13

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Pretty much anything with a catchy, non-disputed name and official structure that claims to be attacking unjust power structures should be side-eyed at best. These organisations are often ops, or quickly turn indistinguishable from them.

# ? Aug 25, 2021 06:03

pandy fackler: Jun 2, 2020

the_steve posted:

https://twitter.com/TheAVClub/status/1424902207472734208?s=19

In news that will surprise literally nobody...

Though I am...not sure of the right word, amused feels wrong...about them using the "We can't be pedos because we always joked about and marketed ourselves as pedos!" defense.

Holy poo poo.
I might regret sharing this but my "brush with celebrity story" as a teenager is that i made out with jimmy urine when i was 13 or 14 after a warped tour festival set (I did not look older than I was). I told plenty of people and hell plenty of people saw it. We weren't in a private space. He asked me to come hang out later but my mom was picking me and my friend up and I knew she definitely would not allow it.

I haven't thought about this in years.

Edit I don't usually post here and sorry if I broke rules this was a very spontaneous freak out post

# ? Aug 25, 2021 21:17

Space Cadet Omoly: Jan 15, 2014; ~Groovy~

pandy fackler posted:

Holy poo poo.
I might regret sharing this but my "brush with celebrity story" as a teenager is that i made out with jimmy urine when i was 13 or 14 after a warped tour festival set (I did not look older than I was). I told plenty of people and hell plenty of people saw it. We weren't in a private space. He asked me to come hang out later but my mom was picking me and my friend up and I knew she definitely would not allow it.

I haven't thought about this in years.

Edit I don't usually post here and sorry if I broke rules this was a very spontaneous freak out post

It's fine, and in fact very normal to freak out when you suddenly realize "oh, wait, that thing that happened to me in the past was actually super hosed up and a crime."

# ? Aug 25, 2021 21:46

pandy fackler: Jun 2, 2020

Thank you. Doing the math he must have been around 36. I wasn't a superfan or anything and assumed he was in his late twenties, he looked and behaved like it. I would probably not have kissed him if I'd known he was almost as old as my father. What a freak.

# ? Aug 25, 2021 22:11

Space Cadet Omoly: Jan 15, 2014; ~Groovy~

pandy fackler posted:

Thank you. Doing the math he must have been around 36. I wasn't a superfan or anything and assumed he was in his late twenties, he looked and behaved like it. I would probably not have kissed him if I'd known he was almost as old as my father. What a freak.

Yeah, that guy is a gross creep. Hopefully he'll go to jail where he can't prey on anyone else, or at the very least people will realize they can NOT let kids be near him ever again.

# ? Aug 25, 2021 22:22

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

pandy fackler posted:

Holy poo poo.
I might regret sharing this but my "brush with celebrity story" as a teenager is that i made out with jimmy urine when i was 13 or 14 after a warped tour festival set (I did not look older than I was). I told plenty of people and hell plenty of people saw it. We weren't in a private space. He asked me to come hang out later but my mom was picking me and my friend up and I knew she definitely would not allow it.

I haven't thought about this in years.

Edit I don't usually post here and sorry if I broke rules this was a very spontaneous freak out post

I feel you. I shared recently for the first time in almost 20 years that the Blizzard dick heads buddy raped me and he was in the house. I was 14. I had basically shoved the whole thing into a wad in the back of my brain. The news around it hosed me up so hard for a few weeks. Still loving me up.

I support you. I think it's pretty normal to have a "holy poo poo" moment.

Seeing people who did hosed up poo poo to us in the news is like picking at a scab for me.

Anyway. I uniquely get you. I hope you have someone you feel safe talking to irl too. Even if it was "just making out" a gross rear end adult man took advantage of you and that poo poo can really be weird on the brain when you look back on it.

silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Aug 27, 2021

# ? Aug 27, 2021 09:30

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

It's been a while thread.

Some news to discuss?

https://twitter.com/HuffPostPol/status/1453143312538521602?t=WHITZCwrH982E88vtgTVFw&s=19

I get why she didn't say who. She probably likes working in politics and if she names the name she probably will have a harder time getting work but it still sucks so bad.

# ? Oct 27, 2021 09:46

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

If I got raped at work and it was the nature of my profession that I would be expected not to name the rapist to avoid being blacklisted, I would not want to be a part of that profession any more and would probably want to use the truth to destroy anyone telling me to stay quiet it if I could.

However I guess the actual reason is that she knows nothing will happen anyway and she�d be blowing up her own life for nothing, like in any situation where a person is sexually assaulted. It sucks.

# ? Oct 27, 2021 15:31

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

The last person to accuse a US senator by name had everything she ever did wrong down to late rent checks dug up and sprayed all over the pages of the Washington Post, her professional career attacked with baseless allegations of perjury, etc while her abuser was gladhanded all the way to the most powerful office on the planet, so yeah why on earth would Abedin name the guy after that even if he isn't the president right now, if he is being groomed for it and she names him she's toast.

# ? Oct 27, 2021 17:08

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

VitalSigns posted:

The last person to accuse a US senator by name had everything she ever did wrong down to late rent checks dug up and sprayed all over the pages of the Washington Post, her professional career attacked with baseless allegations of perjury, etc while her abuser was gladhanded all the way to the most powerful office on the planet, so yeah why on earth would Abedin name the guy after that even if he isn't the president right now, if he is being groomed for it and she names him she's toast.

It's this. Every time someone comes forward with their story and it involves anyone "important" the victim/survivor ends up hurt. The US has clearly set the precident.

# ? Oct 27, 2021 17:15

Second Hand Meat Mouth: Sep 12, 2001

Do we know whether the book will definitely keep them anonymous? The Guardian is reporting this off of a small passage from the book, they may have not seen the whole picture.

# ? Oct 27, 2021 17:17

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

silicone thrills posted:

It's this. Every time someone comes forward with their story and it involves anyone "important" the victim/survivor ends up hurt. The US has clearly set the precident.

Yeah, it shouldn't be surprising to anyone at this point that people victimized by powerful people are often subjected to a faustian bargain of "go public and starve or bury it and survive" and it's a little gross to see this sort of macho bravado of "if i were the victim, i would simply..." nonsense just flippantly thrown out there.

# ? Oct 27, 2021 17:22

selec: Sep 6, 2003

Lib and let die posted:

Yeah, it shouldn't be surprising to anyone at this point that people victimized by powerful people are often subjected to a faustian bargain of "go public and starve or bury it and survive" and it's a little gross to see this sort of macho bravado of "if i were the victim, i would simply..." nonsense just flippantly thrown out there.

I mean, she works for the Clintons. She has likely seen the process up close, if anyone has.

# ? Oct 27, 2021 17:23

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

silicone thrills posted:

It's this. Every time someone comes forward with their story and it involves anyone "important" the victim/survivor ends up hurt. The US has clearly set the precident.

The only exception I can think of was Leanne Tweeden who didn't seem to suffer any longterm consequences.

But they still tried with her (publishing pictures of her in skimpy outfits, bringing up all the times she consensually touched or kissed someone to imply she's a slut who wanted it or made it up later or something etc)

Of course

She didn't have a political career so was more protected from retaliation
She had the photo of him harassing her that he'd previously used to humiliate her for laughs
Very telling that none of the women in Democratic party politics that he'd harassed felt safe accusing him until actual proof of him doing it to someone else came out

# ? Oct 27, 2021 17:32

Harvey Mantaco: Mar 6, 2007; Someone please help me find my keys =(

VitalSigns posted:

The only exception I can think of was Leanne Tweeden who didn't seem to suffer any longterm consequences.

But they still tried with her (publishing pictures of her in skimpy outfits, bringing up all the times she consensually touched or kissed someone to imply she's a slut who wanted it or made it up later or something etc)

Of course

She didn't have a political career so was more protected from retaliation

She had the photo of him harassing her that he'd previously used to humiliate her for laughs

Very telling that none of the women in Democratic party politics that he'd harassed felt safe accusing him until actual proof of him doing it to someone else came out

The way people are polarized against parties at all costs, combined with the undermining of rape culture... I feel like you could release a literal video of you being raped with the senator smiling dead-straight at the camera and still get death threats and Tucker Carlson interviewing your grade 2 teacher about how you cheated on a mad minutes or whatever.

# ? Oct 27, 2021 19:42

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

Harvey Mantaco posted:

The way people are polarized against parties at all costs, combined with the undermining of rape culture... I feel like you could release a literal video of you being raped with the senator smiling dead-straight at the camera and still get death threats and Tucker Carlson interviewing your grade 2 teacher about how you cheated on a mad minutes or whatever.

I would make the argument that you're more likely to see your own interview segment on Tucker, while Rachel airs the grade 2 teacher interview, mostly as a way for Trustworth Media to point to you and say "well of course you're lying/have an agenda, you went on Tucker to talk about it!"

# ? Oct 27, 2021 20:21

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

The repulsive aspect is Abedin dropping the story as part of her effort to sell her "memoir," but not naming the person who assaulted her. Oooh, it'll sell more copies this way, get us more interviews, and we won't have to piss off any politicians, dead or alive!

This from a woman who was used as a prop for her husband's own creepiness.

One of the most horrific things I remember is her cringing as Weiner trotted her out at a presser when he was running for NY mayor. This was after he resigned his House seat because of his prior creepiness.

Here's the video, and here's a screencap of Huma as her husband says he is "pleased & blessed" that she was sticking by him.

# ? Oct 27, 2021 20:31

Probably Magic: Oct 9, 2012; Looking cute, feeling cute.

My experience was that if you don't go to trial with something it leaves you open to getting sued for slander, or at least that was what I was told as a kid in that situation. There was also the recent situation with Lena Dunham alleging assault with someone using just context clues and it still left her open for lawsuit, so to a point, it feels like Abedin just didn't want to deal with a lawsuit while still saying, "Hey, I've had the #metoo experience too," etc. I don't entirely view it as cowardice and more just not wanting to deal with the legal ramifications and not thinking it worthwhile to allege anything.

# ? Oct 27, 2021 20:46

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

Yeah, the legal aspect makes sense, as does hesitancy to name names given what other victims have endured when they did.

But I'm still annoyed with her using it as a hook to sell her book.

# ? Oct 27, 2021 20:55

Name Change: Oct 9, 2005

500 good dogs posted:

Do we know whether the book will definitely keep them anonymous? The Guardian is reporting this off of a small passage from the book, they may have not seen the whole picture.

Looking forward to snagging my copy of I Was Raped by Hillary Clinton.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Oct 27, 2021 23:17

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

Oh, look: It's the "too handsy" dude making jokes about rape.

# ? Oct 28, 2021 00:18

Mooseontheloose: May 13, 2003

Lib and let die posted:

I would make the argument that you're more likely to see your own interview segment on Tucker, while Rachel airs the grade 2 teacher interview, mostly as a way for Trustworth Media to point to you and say "well of course you're lying/have an agenda, you went on Tucker to talk about it!"

edit. not worth tit for tatting this.

# ? Oct 28, 2021 00:24

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

Well poo poo.

I get to admit im wrong for the first time ever regarding sexual assault if Cuomo actually experiences any sort of real legal ramifications.

https://twitter.com/ZachReports/status/1453813710158450691?s=20

doubt it though. strongly doubt

# ? Oct 28, 2021 23:08

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Not political in nature, but a reminder that gross sexual predators are everywhere and prey on men as well as women -- anyone they have power over.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/chicago-sexual-assault-kyle-beach-1.6228126

Apparently the Chicago Blackhawks ignored a sex predator because it was inconvenient to their Cup chances.

# ? Oct 28, 2021 23:13

Harvey Mantaco: Mar 6, 2007; Someone please help me find my keys =(

I'd be very pleased to have a small nugget of my cynicism skewered.

# ? Oct 28, 2021 23:14

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

PT6A posted:

Not political in nature, but a reminder that gross sexual predators are everywhere and prey on men as well as women -- anyone they have power over.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/chicago-sexual-assault-kyle-beach-1.6228126

Apparently the Chicago Blackhawks ignored a sex predator because it was inconvenient to their Cup chances.

Yep. Sports poo poo is rife with this. Wasnt that also what happened with like... ohio state and jim jordan never reporting that the coach was inappropriately touching wrestlers during exams and wrestlers said they directly told jim what was happening and he ignored them?

edit: holy gently caress I can't believe I remembered that so accurately.

https://usports.org/rep-jim-jordan-accused-again-of-covering-up-sexual-abuse-allegations/

# ? Oct 28, 2021 23:16

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

silicone thrills posted:

Yep. Sports poo poo is rife with this. Wasnt that also what happened with like... ohio state and jim jordan never reporting that the coach was inappropriately touching wrestlers during exams and wrestlers said they directly told jim what was happening and he ignored them?

edit: holy gently caress I can't believe I remembered that so accurately.

https://usports.org/rep-jim-jordan-accused-again-of-covering-up-sexual-abuse-allegations/

And USA gymnastics. And Penn State. And the other pederast hockey coach who molested a whole bunch of Canadian youth players. Holy gently caress there's a lot of really disgusting people around sports, and an absurdly toxic culture that protects them.

# ? Oct 28, 2021 23:22

Probably Magic: Oct 9, 2012; Looking cute, feeling cute.

And then there's everything going on with the Washington Football Team and Deshaun Watson. The sports world is full of this awfulness, and it doesn't help seeing sports institutions covering it up or underreacting to it.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 04:19

ScootsMcSkirt: Oct 29, 2013

I really hope there are consequences for Cuomo, but my hope has been completely destroyed time and time again so its difficult to feel any catharsis over the recent news

# ? Oct 30, 2021 00:20

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

try the new taco place posted:

I cannot understand why folks keep referring to her allegations as credible, I am excited to read about the valid proof that I have missed in the last 2 years.

I still can't believe this is the 2nd post in this thread. Someone else pointed it out and now my brain can't let it go.

what the gently caress

# ? Oct 30, 2021 00:52

How are u: May 19, 2005; by Azathoth

silicone thrills posted:

I still can't believe this is the 2nd post in this thread. Someone else pointed it out and now my brain can't let it go.

what the gently caress

Why would you go back to quote the 2nd post in the thread?

# ? Oct 30, 2021 02:00

Second Hand Meat Mouth: Sep 12, 2001

How are u posted:

Why would you go back to quote the 2nd post in the thread?

Do you believe Tara Reade's allegations are credible?

# ? Oct 30, 2021 02:08

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

How are u posted:

Why would you go back to quote the 2nd post in the thread?

Why do you care?

# ? Oct 30, 2021 05:00

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

Nevermind.

Not worth it.

silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Oct 30, 2021

# ? Oct 30, 2021 05:17

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

silicone thrills posted:

I still can't believe this is the 2nd post in this thread. Someone else pointed it out and now my brain can't let it go.

what the gently caress

It's incredible how obvious it was from step one the way this thread was going to go but it was still such a depressing surprise when it happened :smith:

# ? Nov 1, 2021 01:56

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Anyway what the hell is going on with Cuomo? It seems like he might actually... face... consequences...? That can't be right, can it?

# ? Nov 1, 2021 01:57

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 17:49

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

I'll believe it when it happens.

# ? Nov 1, 2021 02:33

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