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The difference between the party's reactions to Cuomo and Biden are illustrative of a few things: 1. You are going to get more defenders if you are viewed as important to peoples' other goals. People who think Biden being President wasn't much better than Trump being President form the core of people who believed Reade's story and called for Biden's removal from the ticket because of it. People who vastly preferred Biden's platform and demeanor to Trump's were incentivized to look the other way on it (and given huge amounts of permission by the media to do so). As opposed to being the very conservative governor of a state that's like +15-20 D who does more to block the policy preferences of the state's majority than advance them, whose replacement is very likely to be a Democrat who is better than him (hard to be worse), and not Donald Trump. 2. You are going to get less defenders if you aren't personally popular. It's not like sex pest stories weren't out there about Cuomo in 2020, but when he was "the guy who isn't downplaying the crisis like Trump or senile like Biden and goes on TV and pretends to be competent", this stuff wasn't snowballing on itself like it was when his personal favorability absolutely tanked with the nursing home scandal. 3. Multiple accusers matter, especially when there is little or no actual physical evidence outside of personal statements. Nobody else ever accused Biden - which, of course, doesn't mean that he didn't abuse other women and they didn't come forward out of fear of getting the same chilly reception Reade got. But without a pattern people are more willing to look past an allegation. (And yes, Joe Biden's behavior towards women in public has been atrocious over the decades - and I bet a much larger percentage of people would agree that she was probably treated very lovely in his office by him and other staff than agree that her assault accusation is credible - but nobody has come forward with other accounts of sexual assault.) And I think the roof coming down on Cuomo suggests that the permanent damage to #MeToo caused by people disbelieving/ignoring Reade, because of those three factors, may be overstated.
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Mar 5, 2021 22:22
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sexpig by night posted:how is it wrong? Voting for Biden objectively meant taking these credible issues and going 'eh, gently caress it though' including during the primary. sexpig by night posted:Voting for Biden objectively meant taking these credible issues and going 'eh, gently caress it though' But did you read the post that HSBN was actually responding to? It alleges that anybody who voted for Biden is "disgusting". Disgust is a reflexive verb, so to say something is "disgusting" can't ever be "objectively" true. Furthermore, voter turnout was 67%, and 98% of those who voted voted for somebody credibly accused of rape. If you want to start your political arguments from the perspective that at a minimum two thirds of Americans are "disgusting", that's your right, but it's going to make a lot of people hate and ignore you. Additionally, there are a gently caress ton of people who voted for Biden (and probably even people who voted for Trump) who you would not call disgusting to their face and would be embarrassed if somebody told them that you thought they were "disgusting". Like some kindly grandmother of 20 who marched for Civil Rights, or somebody who works three minimum wage jobs to take care of a disabled partner, or somebody who spent weeks on the street last summer protesting police. All flattened out to "disgusting", in this telling. I'm comfortable saying that the fact we had two people credibly accused of rape on our major party tickets is "disgusting" but affixing that label to, you know, a large majority of people, isn't a way to maintain what has been a reasonably good discussion about a difficult topic. "People vote for rapists" is a societal problem, and if you turn it into an individual one, all you're going to do is push people away.
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Mar 12, 2021 14:31
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Willa Rogers posted:Reade's contention is that Biden literally grabbed her by the pussy. (To be clear, this doesn't make Biden's alleged behavior ok)
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Apr 13, 2021 18:57
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silicone thrills posted:I guarantee you someone like one of the Cuomos is going to run for president in our life time and the fact that he was "investigated but it went nowhere" will absolutely be used as points towards why he will be a good candidate because he can survive a scandal! So much of the posting in this thread is "if you don't agree with me, you're definitely going to do [x] in the future" and if you don't understand why that kind of posting pisses people off I don't know what to tell you.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:43
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silicone thrills posted:Im glad that's all you took out of my entire post. Really proves my point. Thanks.  e: Since you deserve a less flip response to this and you have been very honest and forthright in this thread: People do not want to feel personally culpable for the rape culture of this country. Frankly, I don't know if Biden is guilty of what he's been accused of, I will never know. But I got put in this position: Vote for this guy, who disagrees with you politically on 100% of issues, who is credibly accused rapist, or vote for this guy, who disagrees with you politically on maybe 75% of issues, who is a credibly accused rapist. I didn't loving ask to be put in that situation, and what I decided to do with it doesn't reflect on me the way you are insisting that it does. We're all just trying to do our best. There are a lot of people who have been helped because of Joe Biden winning the 2020 election, and presumably more who will be helped in the future. How does the value of that help weigh against the value of me voting for Hawkins or La Riva or staying home and becoming a minute, imperceptible datapoint of public dissatisfaction with political candidates accused of sexual violence? Everybody has to come to their own conclusion on this, and if people want to take the route of sitting out, especially if they are dealing with related trauma, that's fine and that's good and I encourage it. I decided to handle it differently. I don't deserve to be treated like I'm a monster and browbeaten for doing so, any more than you deserve to be accused of "supporting Trump". Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jun 9, 2021 |
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Jun 9, 2021 20:59
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World War Mammories posted:...or someone shrugging at a rape victim sharing their story.
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Jun 9, 2021 21:11
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Literally nobody is defending Castor’s handling of the case. (Even by the ridiculous standard of straw manning that goes on here “libs” should hate Castor because of our alleged sole principle in life, “orange man bad”.) The judge’s decision was defensible BECAUSE Castor’s actions were not. Who the gently caress has said anything positive about Castor’s handling of the case? Even at the time of the criminal trial it was widely known he had hosed with the case almost beyond repair. (And it ultimately turned out there was no “almost” about it.)
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Jul 8, 2021 01:39
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Timeless Appeal posted:For the vast majority of people, the times they are initiating sex with a new sexual partner are very, very low over the course of your life. Not that rape can't happen in relationships of course, but more the idea that some hot blooded man on the prowl is going to get screwed over by some random lady on one of their nightly conquests is pretty divorced from how most people live. VitalSigns posted:Also, Castor's credibility is important because the only evidence we have for this alleged secret oral agreement that contradicted his public statements made at the time and for years afterward, is Castor's word a decade later that it existed, because the only other person who was purportedly present when the deal was made is dead now. So if he's a huge liar, has a record of protecting and defending rapists from consequences both before and after this case, and was clearly hostile to the victim when this supposed deal to help her was allegedly made, we might not want to take his word that this secret unrecorded deal ever existed! Incidentally, that's exactly what the trial court found: that Castor's claims that a secret deal existed weren't credible.
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Jul 9, 2021 16:54
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After having such a deep, long lasting and rewarding professional connection with someone, it's somewhat understandable that Rashad would come to his defense, if partly just to avoid the cognitive dissonance of realizing that she trusted and respected someone for so long who didn't deserve it. But being understandable doesn't mean it's defensible. I don't see how her academic career could survive this. It shows poor judgement in some areas that are really crucial to a dean's role. Like, would she also feel that a student who was widely respected and/or important to student life at Howard deserved the same deference? Because that would be really bad. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 05:09
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E: ah you know what, forget it. Wrong tone for the thread. Carry on.
Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Aug 6, 2021 |
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Aug 6, 2021 00:16
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CYBEReris posted:According to Letitia James' report cofounders of Time's Up, one of the first organizations Reade went to, helped draft a letter discrediting one of Cuomo's accusers too. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's very conspiratorial, but is rather just a reflection of (deeply hosed up) group dynamics, power relations and rape culture in general. Like, Cuomo seems to be having the hammer brought down on him, but how much of that is because he'd be going down for his handling of COVID anyway, and maybe a lot of Democrats consider tossing him out over his personal sexual harassment to be preferable to tossing him over the nursing home scandal, which serves as a more general indictment of neoliberal policy. I mean it's good that his career is over, it's just very easy to imagine that if he wasn't already on a downward trajectory that more people would've been willing to defend him. Like, Bill Clinton has way more detractors in the party than he did 20 years ago, but the half of the party who still think he was a good president with good policy are much more likely to still defend him. The treatment of women always comes second, if at all.
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Aug 6, 2021 16:05
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silicone thrills posted:It's cool, lets just pigeon hole the whole conversation to a thread with less than 30 regular readers because the idea of talking about this in a popular and active thread is uncouth. USNews probably has what, 40 regular readers? We're not talking orders of magnitude, here. If you want to address a large group of people about this stuff I'm sure there are plenty of newspaper comment sections and subreddits where you can get your point across to thousands of people. I'm not even being facetious here - if you think this is a reality people have to face, then tell them about it, instead of telling all of us 100 times. (Maybe you're already doing this, and if so, good!)
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Aug 7, 2021 19:37
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I looked into it and it seems like Maria Piacesi did not consent to have this allegation shared with the public, and it came to light due to a leaked DM. As far as I know she hasn't publicly commented on it, except in a tweet reply (e: tiktok reply?) that she deleted almost immediately. That doesn't have anything to do with Biden's culpability; after all, it's on video, but it does leave me with an uneasy feeling. I can't help but feel she's being victimized again, and in a way that builds atop the trauma she had to face when she was younger. What a lovely situation. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 19:55
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Willa Rogers posted:It's not a derail; I've brought up several times itt how deplatforming right-wing media will get rid of the last scintilla of Dem malfeasance being publicized and/or acknowledged, & will successfully memory-hole any Biden-style perving out as never having happened, as was the case in the uspol threads of yore. Call me crazy but there's probably a better way of "publicizing Dem malfeasance" that doesn't involve the constant brain poisoning of 30-40% of the population to believe lies in the service of capital and fascism.  The right wing is not and will never be your friend.
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Aug 7, 2021 20:16
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VitalSigns posted:please stop trying to hold the man assaulting all these women and girls accountable, that's like victimizing them all over again That’s not what I said.
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Aug 7, 2021 20:19
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VitalSigns posted:Sounded like it to me dude, she had to delete her accounts because she was getting harassed and bullied by her assaulter's political allies. It's pretty messed up to imply that the people bringing up that Biden did that are somehow victimizing her, not the people who bully every woman and girl who accuses him into silence.
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Aug 8, 2021 00:54
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Timeless Appeal posted:I am sympathetic to what you are saying, and generally speaking you should not out survivors. But if a child tells you that they were sexually assaulted, you should absolutely not keep it yourself and immediately try to get help for them. I agree with your broader point but those reporting responsibilities do NOT fall to random dudes on social media who don’t even know the victim. He could’ve just called attention to the video, without revealing privileged communications, and counseled her to speak to someone about it. “Who to talk to” is an unfortunately complicated question, of course. Sadly, because of our hosed up society, I don’t know how this could have possibly turned out well for Maria. Like, yes, if children tell you they were abused, you should take an action: that action should not be to breathlessly leak unredacted DMs to media organizations! Ever!
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Aug 8, 2021 01:05
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VitalSigns posted:Hm maybe it would help girls like Maria if we held the man who groped her accountable instead of basically giving a pass to bullying victims into silence with this stuff about how if they're successful enough at bullying a girl into not wanting to talk then we need to "respect her wishes"
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Aug 8, 2021 01:25
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I don't see why anyone would have to defend the Idea that either is icky, or that one detracts from the other.
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Aug 8, 2021 03:06
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some plague rats posted:"Did I do anything wrong? No, it's the women who have changed!" I am 100% sure the answer is that he/his aides spoke to members of the state legislature and concluded that his impeachment was inevitable. I don't think he would've resigned for any other reason. People like Schumer/Gillibrand/Pelosi/Biden putting on the heat probably helped move some holdouts on the issue.
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Aug 10, 2021 19:58
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bobjr posted:Are there any legal advantages to resigning instead of getting impeached? I saw someone said if he resigned he could run again, but I really doubt that would go over well. e: I wonder if the legislature could strip him of his pension? I imagine they could. Do it!
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Aug 10, 2021 20:16
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It's possible, and I hope, that Stelter is just wishfully talking out of his rear end about a friend, but the Toobin precedent (and the fact that Stelter probably has insider knowledge of the situation) suggests otherwise. If they do a real investigation and actually care about what it concludes then he's done, it's just that neither of those things is a foregone conclusion.
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Dec 3, 2021 15:31
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