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Preamble: This is a sort of a project thread but please shitpost about poo poo (or not) trucks ITT. A few years ago I got the dumb idea in my head that I wanted a sailboat-mainly because it is slightly problematic to drink beer with my buddies on a motorcycle. What does this have to do with trucks? Well, don't live close to the water and my toy-budget is limited, so my boat was going need to be trailerable. No problem, I thought... my V6 Camry can tow 3,500lbs. However, after my brother helped me tow a Catalina 22 down from the mountains with his chonky Pathfinder I realized this would be a terrible idea.  The boat and trailer dwarfed his 3'rd gen Nissan so I knew the Camry was a terrible idea. I needed a truck.... But I didn't want to spend a lot of money. This lead me to consider a bunch of things, midsize trucks would work, and an SUV would be okay but I focused on 1/2-ton RWD pickups. Pickings were slim, and just about everything on the market was at or above my $5k budget. Spent a month souring the local ads. I missed out on a couple of F150 grandpa specials, but eventually I scored a 246,000mi 2001 Silverado 1500 form a curbstoner in a Walmart parking lot for $2,700. It drove fine and the AC worked and it left some cash in my pocket in case I needed, say a transmission, so I bought it and crossed my fingers that the DMV would let me register it. They did and I was off to the  I spent that summer towing the boat to local lakes, and learning to sail. Towards the end of the summer, my friends and I planned a big camping trip up at a high-elevation lake. My buddy and I were going to take off early Thursday to claim a spot and setup camp. The highway we normally took was being re-graded and had a 10 mile dirt detour, so we went the long way around. This was fine, but we underestimated the grade that route put us on. Half way up, the little LCD panel on the left side started displaying a message about trans temp, so I shifted down to 2nd and slowed down a bit... then right as we got to the summit, the message turned red and flashed, "OH gently caress STOP NOW!" We did, and idled for 15 minutes, and the proceeded down to the campground. Launched the boat, made camp and had a great weekend. Come Sunday morning we packed up camp and brought the boat around to the ramp. As soon as I went to bring the boat out of the water, the friend who was spotting waves his arms and says, "I see smoke!" I got out, looked under the truck and saw the slightest wiff of smoke. Since I didn't see flames, I popped the hood to look for a leak. Nope, no leaks. Restart the engine, every thing seems fine and we pull the boat out without issue. Spent the next hour prepping the boat to do 55 to windward, and we headed back down the road to the highway. It was all downhill, and the last few bends before the highway it started making a noise so I pulled over. I quickly determined that I could not put the truck in reverse, and all gears were a very unhappy sounding forward. Luckily, I was right by a rest-stop, so I pulled in and my friends drove me to the lakeside lodge down the highway to call AAA. AAA said they'd be there in two hours, and my brother could be up in three to tow the boat home. I got to work finishing the leftover beer in the cooler while my friends headed back home.  If you're going to break down, break down <100 miles from home. Eventually, I took the truck to an ATRA member shop and the rebuilt the 4l60e. Ran great at that point, but I didn't want to get into that situation ever again so I invested in a transmission cooler and spliced that in. Truck ran great for three more summers and I never saw the trans temp break 210-degrees. There was one problem with that setup. These trucks use quick-connect fittings for the cooler lines so I couldn't just connect a hose to a barb. I ended up cutting a hardline, and jamming a 3/8" trans hose over it and cinching it with a hose clamp. This worked until my buddy borrowed the truck to go pick a Christmas tree back in December....  To be continued...
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Feb 20, 2021 01:08
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Boys who love boys
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Truck status: Friend was driving the truck, with his partner giving chase in her car. She called him because she noticed a little bit of smoke coming from the truck and then the truck started to lose power. Eventually came to a stop and he had to be towed to the shoulder by a good Samaritan. It was a quick diagnosis...   Yeah, that ain't good. I reconnected the line, dumped in 12qts of juice and took it for a test drive. Drove and shifted fine, so I though I had dodged a bullet. I haven't been driving it much, but last month I ran a longer set of errands than normal. On my way back through my neighborhood, I noticed that my revs would climb if I dipped into the gas... First and second seem fine, but 3 & 4 slip when warm. drat. The good news is my boat lives in a slip now so I don't do too much towing. The bad news is I've just learned it's not 2001 anymore and I can't buy a car that is interesting and not beat to poo poo for under five grand. So I guess I might as well fix this thing. Good things about the truck:
Where I am right now: Well, first course of action will be to fix the transmission. I've been watching a lot of Precision Transmission on youtube so I'm really tempted to buy a 3-4 burnup kit for $80 bucks and try my hand at fixing my own 4l60e. Local shop quoted a hair $2,500 for a ATRA backed rebuild and that's definitely an option... but If I can fix it myself and spend $2k on LEDs to Dekotora this poo poo to hell and back that sounds like a better time. I know I'm standing next to the metaphorical well right now and thinking about climbing down with a shovel. If you've got any advice or just want to talk about trucks please post away.
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Feb 20, 2021 02:28
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At this point, if you think you can wrestle the trans out and have all the long pliers and snap ring poo poo - the $80 kit sounds good. I myself failed at rebuilding a 700R4 way back in the day, which is the predecessor to the 4L60. But the value of the truck is probably low enough and used 4L60s cheap enough that it’s worth a shot. Its too bad its not 4x4 because a clean, rust free truck of that era is getting hard to find in the north and midwest. Another 20 years and it might be a classic, lol. Also, those are decent, probably the best long term choice of the era. Lots of small issues, but generally stout. 250k out of an automatic transmission is fair, and the second failure is kinda not a design issue. That particular truck just wasn’t optioned for towing.
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Feb 20, 2021 03:11
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The 4l60 still shits the bed when towing, even with the factory tow package options. Ask me about roasting the one in my avalanche twice, then dumping two bottles of lucas trans fix into it before trading it in on the wagon. 
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Feb 20, 2021 03:46
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Ehhh, you can just about put a 48RE on a 100k mile checklist. Same with whatever turd of an automatic came behind the 7.3 PSD. The 4L60 gets a bad reputation for a reason, but you can do much worse.
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Feb 20, 2021 03:53
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Rebuild it yourself. Take lots of photos. Post up here. They're not hard to do. Get some good circlip pliers and a couple of those dentist pics from the surplus store. rdb posted:Ehhh, you can just about put a 48RE on a 100k mile checklist. Same with whatever turd of an automatic came behind the 7.3 PSD. The 4L60 gets a bad reputation for a reason, but you can do much worse. 4R100. not comparable to a 48RE or a 4L60. They're more like a 4L80 but not as good.
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Feb 20, 2021 03:55
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cursedshitbox posted:Rebuild it yourself. Take lots of photos. Post up here. They're not hard to do. Get some good circlip pliers and a couple of those dentist pics from the surplus store. Mine lasted 78k in a 98 E450. Whatever it was. The engine was ok, but slow with noticeable turbo lag. I personally don’t care for the 7.3, I think it only gets a good reputation because every ford diesel that came after it broke all the time in the most expensive ways possible. Lots of people will only buy ford trucks so that was the only option for a long time. Supposedly the 2015+ 6.7 PSD is reliable but time will tell, when I bought the LBZ in 2011 the 6.4 was hot poo poo with a delete and an alligator tune and “so much better than the 6.0”. 11 years on we all know that engine was a dud, good for about 150k stock, far less tuned and a total write off when it does poo poo the bed. Even the early 6.7 psd likes to drop valves, lunch turbos and do all the expensive cp4 tricks. I really liked my LBZ duramax and the 6.7 cummins I have now is ok just a little loud. And to the OP if a $2500 transmission seems expensive for the love of god don’t buy a modern diesel.
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Feb 20, 2021 04:14
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I will be watching this thread with interest. Last year I bought a GMT400 for camping purposes...a K2500 Suburban. Yes, it's TBI. No, I don't care. Now that I've replaced the fuel pump (the old one was pushing about 1/3 of spec) TBI will push enough fuel to support any stupid idea I have for the 454. I'm super glad I've got a 4L80E though...the internet is not kind to the 4L60E and I had my fill of transmission issues with Ford AXODEs. I've always liked the looks of the early GMT800s...the Silverado got real ugly in 2003.
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Feb 20, 2021 04:19
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rdb posted:Its too bad its not 4x4 because a clean, rust free truck of that era is getting hard to find in the north and midwest. Another 20 years and it might be a classic, lol. Also, those are decent, probably the best long term choice of the era. Lots of small issues, but generally stout. 250k out of an automatic transmission is fair, and the second failure is kinda not a design issue. That particular truck just wasn’t optioned for towing. Yeah, that's kind of my feeling on it on GMT800s. Maybe not the best truck on the market at any specific criteria, but it had the fewest cons and they're relatively cheap. They also hit the goldilocks spot on technology (it got good EFI, but not AFM,) size and styling... or maybe that last bit is just Stockholm syndrome talking because there's a billion copies of this front end on the road today. Figured this truck will still be pretty useful to me as a beater/tow pig* for a long time, it's easy and cheap to maintain, so I might as well fix it even if the transmission equals the value of the truck. *I only tow a 4,000lb trailer, plus a bed full of camping gear so a 1/2-ton gasser is plenty to take me to my IT job in the city. Y'all right about diesels... When I was shopping CSB was at work on his truck... I was inspired. Pulled over to look at a couple bricknoses, but I figured I already had a enough cash-vaporizing displacement to worry about with a boat. Godholio posted:
Hell yeah! If I could go back in time to talk to my teenage self I'd say buy one of those and go snowboarding. gently caress career or love advice. Yeah, so back to the 4l60e. When it was rebuilt 3 years / 12,000 miles ago the shop offered some basic upgrades. They came well regarded by another 4x4 shop in town and the build sheet makes sense, shift kit, big band, hardened sunshell- all the poo poo Precision Transmission talk about installing while they talk poo poo about some other shop's work- so I'm optimistic that there's a good trans to be salvaged from my mistake. I've never swapped a trans before (done a couple engines, bunch of heads) but I think I've got a lead on a jack and I'm game. Only thought I had before ordering that 3/4 kit was maybe getting a line pressure gauge to confirm that looks normal because if it's more than just glassed clutches I'm inclined to leave it to the pros. I'm down to use every DIY repair as justification for more tools... I'll order some better snap ring pliers and I can always use more picks.
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Feb 20, 2021 04:58
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Can you just put a 4L80 in with a different driveshaft?
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Feb 21, 2021 21:11
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Yeah, that's an option and god knows I've been looking at 6.0L+4L80e dropouts. It would take at a minimum a shorter driveshaft and a new crossmember. I've been watching local FBM/CL but most of the 4l80s are for 4x4s (necessitating output swap?) and priced as cores. It would be nice to have something bulletproof, but I'm not sure it's worth the expense. My trailer is under 4,000lbs, and I don't see myself pulling more than 6,000lbs (car on uhaul trailer) and that would probably be a one-off deal. I think my 'built' 4l60e should have been plenty for that if I had kept the fluid inside the circuit and not rustproofed the passenger side of the truck. Just to muddy the waters on this project, my budget is basically the equivalent to a down payment on a newer ride ($4k). Sensible thing would be to give it to the shop and be back on the road Friday, but that's kind of boring. I'd rather sweat and swear bunch, buy some tools and have enough cash left after fixing the transmission to start building up a new Gen III for the truck. That last part is pretty much the subtext of this project. I've always wanted to build an American V8 and this sounds like a good opportunity. (I'm in CA and need to smog this truck so it'll probably be pretty stock but deffo painted red.)
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Feb 21, 2021 22:47
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I would risk the $80 and your labor on the kit. Then go look for something else if it can’t be fixed. Preferably 3/4 ton, gas, 4x4. Sounds like overkill but if all you do is tow with it then as you have already found out, 1/2 ton is not the best choice. They are more “daily driver/weekend warrior”. Not sit sit sit then tow in the mountains and sit some more.
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Feb 21, 2021 23:46
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I for one never had a single issue with the 4L60 in my 1500, despite frequent towing. This is because the body rusted away before the transmission had the chance to give out.
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Feb 22, 2021 06:17
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Thank you for making a truck thread so I can post about my offroading minivan (2000 Toyota Sienna FWD). It's currently undergoing a suspension and engine mount replacement in my apartment complex parking lot because I couldn't find a suitable used vehicle (i.e. one that's cheap enough). I almost talked myself into paying $12-15k for a 15 year old 200k mile 4runner. Which is insane, but that's what they're going for around here. And I liked the idea of tackling more rugged trails than I can in my fwd minivan. The minivan actually does surprisingly well offroad, possibly better than an unladen rwd pickup. But I have a list of GPS coords of places I tried to go, but failed. Steep + gravel/sand is the usual obstacle. But those 4runner plans went to poo poo when I went to a Toyota dealer and tried lying down in the back. I am 6', and the 4runner is just a little too small. I could lie down diagonally or something, but that sucks. If I'm paying that kind of money for a camping/hunting vehicle, I need to be able to sleep in the back and enjoy it. My 1st gen Sienna has 7.5 ft of cargo space with the seats out, and it is amazing. It's a camping palace. There's no way in hell I'm going to spend $12k on a vehicle when I know I'll be lying in the back at night wishing I still had my Sienna. I think a Toyota Sequoia might work, or something similar like a Suburban? They are all quite a bit bigger than the Sienna, though. I've definitely taken the minivan on trails where I had branches scraping both sides and the roof. On the other hand, 4WD would be amazing to have. In the end I decided to try fixing my minivan myself, and I'm about $2000 into that project between parts and some new tools. Whether I'll succeed is still an open question, though.
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Feb 22, 2021 09:30
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Another GMT800 checking in here -- '05 Escalade. I had a 4L65E scare 2 years ago, saw flaring during shifting of 2-3 and my transmission guy thought the 3-4 clutch pack was gone. Car had about 105k miles at the time. Transmission guy tried changing solenoids and that worked great. 2 years later it's still going. I've got a number of things to do to it, just haven't had time. Most recent one is an electrical burning smell when the blower is on full... haven't looked to see if that's indicative of the blower motor or the resistor, but I figure I'll find out soon enough. 
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Feb 22, 2021 18:40
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EVERYWHERE 
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meatpimp posted:Another GMT800 checking in here -- '05 Escalade. I had a 4L65E scare 2 years ago, saw flaring during shifting of 2-3 and my transmission guy thought the 3-4 clutch pack was gone. Car had about 105k miles at the time. Transmission guy tried changing solenoids and that worked great. 2 years later it's still going. i dont know the GMT800 in particular, but in most cars the high speed bypasses the resistor entirely and just connects 12V to the motor
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Feb 23, 2021 09:21
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Heck yeah cockroach trucks Here I'm using my towing mirrors.  It's an 01 2WD with the 8.1L and Allison 1000. I've had it for 6 years and hauled all over the place with it. The only breakdowns I had were the fuel pump, and a couple weeks ago the (original as far as I can tell) alternator died after it got home from a 4hr road trip. A rebuilt alt shipped directly from AC Delco was under $100.
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Feb 23, 2021 19:16
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angryrobots posted:Here I'm using my towing mirrors. Aww yea!  My truck on the left, your truck on the right. meatpimp posted:I've got a number of things to do to it, just haven't had time. Most recent one is an electrical burning smell when the blower is on full... haven't looked to see if that's indicative of the blower motor or the resistor, but I figure I'll find out soon enough. I'd bet a Bud Light or three on you finding a spicy connector behind the dash, because what Raluek said.
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Feb 23, 2021 20:32
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Sorry about the trans, I've killed a few 60's with a combination of miles and enthusiastic driving but its always a this poo poo is going to get expensive feeling. You might as well try unfucking it yourself if you're feeling brave. If you give up on that drivetrain make it a 1500HD, a friend has over 200k on his farm truck with the 6.0/4l80 and he is only looking to replace it because of the rust. Godholio posted:Last year I bought a GMT400 for camping purposes...a K2500 Suburban. Yes, it's TBI. No, I don't care. Now that I've replaced the fuel pump (the old one was pushing about 1/3 of spec) TBI will push enough fuel to support any stupid idea I have for the 454. I'm super glad I've got a 4L80E though...the internet is not kind to the 4L60E and I had my fill of transmission issues with Ford AXODEs. I'm looking at moving to one of those next but I want the MPFI 454, fuel pumps and alternators are all that seem to go on those things if you can keep the rust off. Chevys have been getting uglier every year since then, I think its a conspiracy to sell more GMCs. Having towed with other trucks before the 5.3/4l60 with a 3.73 sucks, I think the 5.7 was a better towing motor but that truck had a 5spd so its not a fair comparison.
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Feb 24, 2021 04:15
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monsterzero posted:Aww yea! Given the tiny little dent my SO got it stuck in, right in the yard by my shop over last weekend, I'm not sure that's an apt comparison. Granted the gooseneck horse trailer (and months of monsoons) helped, but still extremely  .I had plans of converting to 4wd, and even bought a rolled 4wd single cab 8.1/Allison 2500 with a manual xfer case, but  and eventually my buddy bought out my half of the wreck, put a new cab and flatbed on it and got it back on the road.
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Feb 24, 2021 05:26
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Raluek posted:i dont know the GMT800 in particular, but in most cars the high speed bypasses the resistor entirely and just connects 12V to the motor monsterzero posted:I'd bet a Bud Light or three on you finding a spicy connector behind the dash, because what Raluek said. This makes sense. As I think about it, I get the smell not when it's on high speed, but after it's been on high speed for at least 10 minutes or so... just enough time for a spicy connector to get hot. I had the same thing with the tailgate electrics going out with a melted ground in a connector.  Can I pull the HVAC controls without pulling the radio?
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Feb 25, 2021 17:38
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Not sure. Somehow I've made it 4 years without taking off any part of the dash/trim. I'd start by looking at the connectors on the resistor since you can get to that by sticking your head in the pass footwell (on a Silverado at least).
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Feb 25, 2021 18:55
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The 3-4 burn-up kit is in transit so I decided to check the trans line pressure so I'll to have a baseline to compare to after I take this poo poo apart. Pressures were all normal 80psi idle, 180psi in D and ~320psi in R. Easy test but a pain in the rear end to get the gauge on the port. And then on the removal I managed to get Dex VI in 40% of my faceholes and brushed my forearm against a hot downpipe eleventy times. Would not recommend.
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Mar 3, 2021 03:03
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ATF makes great (hair) conditioner though!
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Mar 3, 2021 16:56
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STR posted:ATF makes great (hair) conditioner though!
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Mar 3, 2021 17:03
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There are two types of people in the world: those who have been doused by a neverending downpour of automatic transmission fluid and those who have never done anything with an automatic transmission.
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Mar 3, 2021 20:58
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Lol, yup. ATF isn't so bad... doesn't burn like gas and they don't put a bitterant in it like antifreeze.
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Mar 3, 2021 21:04
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RIP Paul Walker posted:There are two types of people in the world: those who have been doused by a neverending downpour of automatic transmission fluid and those who have never done anything with an automatic transmission. Oh, that full pan isn't going to be that heavy... oh wait, it's off balance... splash.
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Mar 3, 2021 21:05
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meatpimp posted:Oh, that full pan isn't going to be that heavy... oh wait, it's off balance... splash. Ok I’ve drained all the fluid, it’s been sitting on the lift for a couple hours while I’ve eaten lunch, probably won’t be much dripping once the pan is off.... Yeah.
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Mar 3, 2021 22:44
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RIP Paul Walker posted:There are two types of people in the world: those who have been doused by a neverending downpour of automatic transmission fluid and those who have never done anything with an automatic transmission. You ain lived till you've done this after a 10hr shift at a different job in a shop flooded 3" in water and the powers out. btw the pump has shat itself so goodluck have fun, btw customer is coming to pick it up at 8am tomorrow. This is a rust belt rover too so everything is gonna fight you. There's some rite of passages to wrenching. Taking an involuntary ATF bath is one. E: also these fuckers on the side of the road. 
cursedshitbox fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 06:31
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Thank you CSB for the perspective. Happy to be doing this poo poo in the driveway with the luxury to give up for a while when I run into trouble. Speaking of which, parts have arrived, it's a sunny day and the truck is up on stands and I'm ready to go... unfortunately the first impact socket I'm going to need (15mm deep) is AWOL so it's off to Napa (and the deli for a Reuben).
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Mar 6, 2021 21:14
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First NAPA was out of 15mm deeps, deli was slow and I had to drive across town for the socket. DIY Experience is on pace.   Not so bad, a Rueben in the sun The exhaust manifolds are the rustiest part of this beater, so I was expecting a fight but the exhaust came off smoothly. Diff yoke bolts were kind of a bitch because I couldn't get a ratchet on them, but by far the hardest part of day one has been that I cannot select the correct tool for a given faster in fewer than three tries. A lifetime of wrenching on Japanese cars and bikes has me pretty good at eyeballing fasteners but what the gently caress- 11mm, 13mm 15mm? Who asked the monkey paw to have GM switch to metric hardware? Also found the first PO poo poo of the job...  Looks like somebody broke the clips and fixed it with RTV. Luckily I could get a wrench behind the switch and left it dangling. If I had half a brain I would have ordered a 15mm ratcheting wrench, would have made the flexplate bolts a lot easier. I'm glad I watched a bunch of preparatory youtube... I would probably still be in the driveway right if I didn't see a video a mobile mechanic made where he used like 4' of 1/2-drive extensions to pull the bellhousing bolts. I used like 4 extensions to get at them, but it worked.  Took four and a half hours to get the 4l60e on the table.  Probably enough for today.
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Mar 7, 2021 03:03
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RIP Paul Walker posted:There are two types of people in the world: those who have been doused by a neverending downpour of automatic transmission fluid and those who have never done anything with an automatic transmission. Surely this torque converter is empty by now. 
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Mar 7, 2021 04:24
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What is the blue donut part?
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Mar 8, 2021 19:54
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taqueso posted:What is the blue donut part?
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Mar 8, 2021 19:55
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Torque Converter, Bud Light edition. Tinal was right too, fucker kept burping more atf out while sitting as pictured.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:45
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Bookmarked. Idk poo poo about trucks and will need a tow vehicle someday, hopefully sooner but probably later. Might as well start learning now.
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Mar 10, 2021 23:54
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Been lazy the last few... Didn't think to order a Torx Plus bit so I'm waiting on those. In the meantime I started cleaning some of the parts I have pulled off the truck. The engine seems to leak oil form everywhere so things are well protected from rust. I scraped off a 1/8" of crud from the starter and dealt with the grime that was built up on the transmission. Next thing to look at was the driveshaft:  The good news is the center u-joint is okay. The aft u-joint is hella stiff, as is the carrier bearing. And the slip yoke should consult it's doctor since it's been like this for more than 3 hours.  Pretty heavy scoring here so it probably seeps ATF, but given how much oil the engine drops IDGAF. Three u-joints and a carrier are on order. Hopefully the torx bit will show up tomorrow and I can dig into the transmission this weekend.
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Mar 12, 2021 00:40
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If its not on your list of things to do already, now is a good time to change the rear main seal.
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Mar 12, 2021 01:01
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Wasn't planning to change the rear main- every seal and gasket on this motor is shot. If I can get this POS back on the road cheaply, the plan will be to find a new LM7 and refresh/rebuild that.
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Mar 12, 2021 01:32
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