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Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Communist Thoughts posted:

full english is great, i'd get rid of the tomatoes too

swap the hash brown for a tattie scone though
That would be a partial Scottish tho

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Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


They must have installed it backwards, don't tell them, you're in for a tasty windfall when you get everyone else's electricity bux

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
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I AM THERESA MAY


bessantj posted:

It's not as if you can't have people that have vast wealth and eliminate poverty. It's just the people with power (and usually by extension the wealth) don't want to. But people defend the ultra wealthy "oh they work so hard for their money". I know people that work 72 hours a week building and maintaining the UKs rail network or buulding buildings and are set to make around £30k. Are we to believe that the ultra rich work so much harder than these people? (I know I'm shouting into the void.)
The problem is that the middle class identify more with the capital class than the working class. I know a bunch of people who've "made it", insofar as going from being poor to having a very comfortable income, getting the nice house & fancy car & clothes, all the good food, &c. Most of them have worked really loving hard to get there, and because they have loads of the same stuff & interests as the actual rich & move in some of the same circles, that's who they identify with, and it provokes a strong emotional reaction when people say the rich don't work hard. They work hard, and they see themselves at the low end of "the rich" rather than the high end of "the workers" so obviously it's a personal insult.

Of course, they never get to be the rich. If you work hard enough to make money for the rich, you can have lots of the same stuff, but you still have to loving work. Living stress-free off the labour of others is almost entirely for hereditary wealth (a few tech billionaires/very lucky entrepreneurs excepted). The minute they stop working their arses off to make money for the actual rich, they're done, back on the scrapheap. It's solely a one-way identification, and their bosses are laughing at them.

I think the fact that you've got to do so much loving work to play at pretend wealth means that only people who are prepared to blind themselves to the fact that they're nothing but lapdogs are prepared to actually do it. And once they start down that path, there's a big old sunk cost fallacy preventing themselves from acknowledging that they're being exploited. So, they carry on defending the people who laugh at them, because what, am I wrong or something? I deserve nice things. This was the right choice. Anyone who says the system that gives me them is unfair must just be jealous. No time to think on it, anyway, I've only got a few hours to sleep after this second bottle of wine before I'm back to work. Hard work is a good thing.

(yes obviously the middle class are not exploited to the same degree as the 72-hour £30k labourer, but it's still exploitation of the same type, this is my thesis on why middle class proletarians identify with their oppressors & get really loving angry when you point out that the rich don't do any loving work)

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


e: ^^^^yeah serious answer, I don't think it's helpful to define the high-earning worker as a different class to the low-earning worker, they have the same relationship to capital. There's also an argument to be made that, with the rise in bogus self employment & private pensions, "owns some capital" is also not a useful distinction. You either have to work for a living (or live off table scraps), or you don't, imo.

Failed Imagineer posted:

You can just say petite bourgeoisie

Borrovan posted:

The problem is petite bourgeoisie
Yeah that works just the same

Doesn't quite scratch the void-screaming itch though

Borrovan fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Mar 2, 2021

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


My old neighbour put a leaflet through my door saying that I shouldn't get one because all the wifis and microwaves cause cancer and something about Bill Gates. It even had a study on it, by somebody with a PhD and everything

Personally I'd probably have taken more issue with the 30 or so wifi networks in that building than maybe one or 2 smart devices in a locked room behind the laundry, if I were a crazy person

I guess I just don't have what it takes

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Josef bugman posted:

I think most of the people who enjoy the idea of other people having things like that happen to them would baulk at the idea that they need to wake up early.
"National service didn't do me any harm [because I was born in 1952]"

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Ed: why is only said of lefties: "s/he is a card-carrying member of the Communist/Labour/SWP/whatever party" and I never hear anyone except me say "s/he is a card-carrying member of the Tory/UKIP/Brexit/BNP/other proto-fascist party". Same with religions: you only ever here of devout roman catholics / muslims / jews / hindus. You never hear of 'devout anglicans' even though there are many.
Anglicans are catholic :colbert:

Serious answer though, the reason you don't hear that about tories because most prominent journalists (including literally all of the big names at the BBC) are or were card carrying members of the Tory party (in fact, most of them have actually held office in Tory-affiliated organisations). It'd be nice to see the BBC preface every article with "Prominent Tory activist Laura Kuenssberg/Nick Robinson/whomever claims that..." but, uh, I don't think they're gonna choose to do that.

Their viewpoint is just the default, obviously. It's all those other weirdos you've got to watch out for.

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Anglicans aren't ROMAN catholics though!
Some are :eng101:

(that'll teach me for posting whilst half-heartedly explaining to a very small group of students feigning technical issues that if they're not going to prepare for seminars I'm not going to teach them and they'll just have to come back tomorrow)

((I had also not prepared))

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Private Speech posted:

How does the tracking of people who have or have not filled it work? Do you have to put in your name and stuff.

I'm just curious really, in part because I may have to travel for family reasons.
It's by address, if you're not in on the day you just fill in the basic info and say "nobody was here".

I worked as a census collector last time round, they basically give you a list of addresses that haven't returned and you go door-to-door finding out what the deal was.

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Jose posted:

They're going all out
What a massive coincidence that they've got not 1 but 2 completely unrelated stories about how awful she is, just after she (again, completely unrelatedly) pointed out that they are in fact awful

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


OwlFancier posted:

parliament lost the majority of its high profile eggs

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
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I AM THERESA MAY


MikeCrotch posted:

which is even closer to Osborne style austerity than Sunak
The most brutal peacetime cuts in UK history possibly have since been retrofitted as sensible centrism, it's what people want, not like those awful populists like Johnson and Corbyn which are definitely the same thing

We can probably expect more of this imo

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
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I AM THERESA MAY


MikeCrotch posted:

Just maddening how the current leadership has managed to pin themselves to economic policy that is both morally wrong and unpopular at the same time
Hey now, be fair, you're not really presenting the full picture here

It's also ineffective and counterproductive (e:^:argh:)

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
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I AM THERESA MAY


a pipe smoking dog posted:

you might be right, I've been a bit vague on what actually happened other than that he isn't legally speaking a sex pest
He was "not proven" in respect of one of the charges, which if I understand the Scottish justice system correctly means that the jury totally think that he's literally a sex offender but there's just not quite enough evidence

"Not guilty" (the other 11 verdicts) also doesn't mean he's not a sex offender, there's no "definitely innocent" verdict

The presumption of innocence is very important in law, but we don't have to use it in, like, everyday judgement. In my personal authority I find the defendant double-dog-guilty of Being A Wrong 'Un

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


I know poo poo-all about Scots law or the criminal law in general, but "not guilty" isn't the same as "innocent", it's still a presumption. My understanding is that both kinds of acquittal basically mean "not proven", expressly finding "not proven" just carries an unspoken "but c'mon, look at him"

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


e: ^ you stole my example, from the past :(

Angepain posted:

oh, is that what the cardassian legal system in deep space nine was based on

anyway, I think it's possible to recognise the difficulty in convicting sexual assault charges without completely switching to that system. Like, if we say that not being found guilty means that Salmond is definitely innocent then we start opening up the possibility of saying his accusers are definitely lying, which is a bad road to go down (which of course a bunch of the unholy alliance of Wings-reading online chuds have already leant heavily into). like yeah, it's not feasible to actually do anything against a person who's been found not guilty, but like... it doesn't mean he definitely didn't do the specific bad things
Yeah the presumption of innocence is very important in criminal justice but absolutely should not be treated as meaning "they definitely didn't do it", because that means treating a bunch of people who are very probably a danger to women/children/whomever as not being that, because "very probably" is not enough for a criminal conviction.

To take a legalistic example, it sometimes happens that someone will be found not guilty in criminal proceedings ("beyond reasonable doubt") but then successfully sued in the civil courts ("balance of probability", i.e., more likely than not). There's not enough evidence to justify the complete denial of liberty, but enough to say "they probably did it so they've got to pay damages".

To take a less legalistic example, if someone was found not guilty of a dozen independent child sex offences, I'm not going to hire them as a babysitter. If someone gets accused of abusing their partners, it's absolutely right to believe the victims, and exclude probable abusers from settings where they can cause harm. It doesn't translate into criminal justice, because the complete denial of liberty is a big loving deal and should not be done unless it's all but certain (if then :anarchists:), but the fact of the matter is that domestic abuse and sexual offences are incredibly hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt because they happen behind closed doors, and that does not mean that we should tell victims to just deal with it.

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Remember when Jiminy Croblyn wanted to end the public sector pay freeze?

Just think how many underpaid workers that would have pushed into the tax system.

Monster.

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


namesake posted:

Except thats a pay increase policy meaning the policy itself is increasing incomes directly with a secondary impact on tax payments. Talking about how a change in tax codes will affect taxation and who pays it is different.
Yeah that was just a naff joke aping Daily Mail logic, I'm aware that freezing the allowance is a real-terms reduction

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


peanut- posted:

quote:

Corbyn didn't have to deal with the govt being boosted by a rally around the flag effect, a vaccine effect, an ease of restrictions effect AND a budget bump effect. Like it or not, Corbyn would be 20 points behind at this point.
Just imagine what would have happened to Corbyn's approval if there was a rally around the flag effect, say from a major terrorist attack or analogous disaster, or even both in the space of a few weeks

Seriously if he were PM right now he'd be being bodied for Stalinism, but if he hadn't gotten so bodied on Brexit & was still LOTO we'd be well in the lead right now

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


ngl it took me a fair while to work out what sorcery you'd invoked here

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


big scary monsters posted:

The optical effect is real and can be recorded on camera, but your brain's interpretation that the ship is above the water is in error.
It's the same basic illusion as the one that makes ships look like they're disappearing beyond the horizon when in fact the earth is flat :eng101:

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Wait why doesn't the light coming off the water do the same thing :tinfoil:

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

nothing else he needs a long-rear end timeout.
What the hell are you talking about, this isn't even a sentence

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


EvilHawk posted:

I do wonder if there's been conversations about skipping over Charles and going straight to William. He's younger so likely to be in the position for 40+ years, has a nice young (white) family, and doesn't have the baggage that Charles does. If you're concerned about rising republican sentiment following the death of the Queen who has all sorts of emotional connections to people, what you don't want to do is follow that with 20 years of someone people don't particularly like.
I did some polite enquiring about this when a few people were enthusiastically talking about royal gossip in an office I used to work at. They told me that it's not going to be an issue because Charles is going to die before Brenda

They were absolutely certain about this, and these are people who love the royals & support the monarchy. idgi

e: I get the implication that Brenda is going to murder her firstborn son, it's the "& that's cool & normal" that stumps me

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Lungboy posted:

This seems great, now kick out the TERFs and the woowoo mystic healing dickheads and the Greens might be worth a vote
Also literally everyone involved in teaming up with the LDs to split the Remain vote on a platform of lies & hand swing seats to the Tories

It's only been like 15 months, I'm still gonna judge them by their actual tangible actions when they actually had the power to affect something

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Aramoro posted:

There's mandatory reading material which is all just screenshots of other peoples instagram posts, if an admin replies to your comment you must reply to them or they prob you. Half the posts are just calls to brigade some American's social media posts for being racist (this is a 100% UK based group). The other half are links to news stories where 'wheat' people are expected to reply with how bad it is, or risk being banned.

And obviously links to all the admins cashapps so you can pay them for it.
jfc it's no wonder we're losing

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


MikeCrotch posted:

DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE POSTBOXES SAID ER ON THEM?!?! BRING THEM BACK!!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad:
That's actually so that when you put a stamped letter in them it creates a contract with hospital Emergency Rooms (as A&E departments are called in that one American TV show), meaning that they're allowed to charge you tax for it

I am 100% sure this is an actual thing that a sovcit has said in earnest at some point and no I will not bother checking to find out

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


e: ^^^ yeah that's bullshit, everyone knows you ban them first & then demand :10bux: if they want to be unbanned

Vagabong posted:

Didn't he try and orchestrate a fascist coup?
Basically, yeah

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
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I AM THERESA MAY


Jedit posted:

Now think about the contexts in which you might get into trouble for saying "White".
, these days

e: DAMMIT

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
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I AM THERESA MAY


feedmegin posted:

Didn't we have a poster who was mad keen on this before he was threadbanned
nope he was perma'd, something to do with a car park

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


OwlFancier posted:

People who complain about others being too sensitive are often extremely sensitive about their own ideas and I don't think that hypocrisy is really a problem for them, because the people who like them are much the same way, the point is merely the dominance of their ideas, and if throwing a big flounce is a useful tactic they will do it. For all that they might claim to be above that, in reality the thing that really matters is dominating the situation, the pretense of seriousness and factuality is only as a method of dominating, and refusing to participate when they find it unpleasant is just another form of it.
I think the same basically applies to most hypocrisy. I was thinking a while back about Galaxy O'Brain's sudden switch to how everyone should fall behind Starmer to keep the Tories out after years of frothing at the mouth about Corbyn. imo, it's not actually hypocrisy from their perspective. If you assume their views to be axiomatic truth, of course the same logic doesn't apply when the tables are turned. The left should rally behind Starmer, but the centre shouldn't rally behind Corbyn because the left are wrong. It's not hypocrisy to complain about snowflakes melting down about ~objective truth~ whilst yourself melting down about things that are objectively wrong. "If you assume I'm right, it turns out I'm right" is a depressively common form of argument in modern discourse (typically with a bunch of completely otiose other steps of reasoning to paper over the core assumption).

CW for transphobia: the terf "1+1=2" slogan is the most infuriating example of this, because they're basically flat-out admitting that they're just axiomatically assuming that they're right (e: & also because its monstrous). All of the other terf arguments are derived from a false assumption, and you can't argue with the fuckers because it's a loving axiom to them. There's just no point in engaging with these types of argument, people always try to challenge the extra steps papering over the core assumption and it's just a waste of time. "[x assumption] is bullshit, gently caress off" is about all you can say.

Borrovan fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Mar 9, 2021

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Completely off-topic, I seem to remember a while back some Tory arguing that Mr. Potter was the hero in It's A Wonderful Life. I'm using him in a lecture as an example of why subjectively believing yourself to be acting properly shouldn't be relevant in law (discussing a particular doctrine in which it is relevant), and don't want to pass up an opportunity to bash the Tories in front of 250 students. Can anyone remember who it was?

e: apparently Javid said it was his favourite film whilst also being a Randroid, it could be that I just assumed he thought that

Borrovan fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Mar 9, 2021

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


That reminds me:

I currently have a load of renal cat food, a large bag of litter & an outdoor "cat house" in the back of my car as the woman who I'm a carer for's cat died over the weekend so I took it all away to make it a bit easier for her. Guessing a sanctuary wouldn't have any need for the house, & it'd probably cost more in postage for everything else than it would to just buy fresh stuff - but, the house itself probably cost a bit, so if anyone wants it I could probably stuff the food inside (not sure the litter would fit), wrap it up & post it? I don't mind covering the postage if anyone's in need, or if you feel like paying it forward just chuck some money to whatever charity you want (or Jaeluni's thing)

e: actually now I look at it the renal cat food costs a bomb so I'll probably just send that to the shelter, as I guess they'll have some cats with kidney trouble. Jaeluni, could you PM me an address for them if you think they'll want it?

Still happy to sent the cat house to whomever

Borrovan fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Mar 9, 2021

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


I thought it was snowflakes

Or possibly human rights laws

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


An academic engineer I know put in a module proposal on the importance of diversity in engineering. It had some really interesting stuff in it, not just on representation &c but on specific problems resulting from (e.g.) nobody noticing that people other than cishet white men exist.

It was not accepted. The higher-ups in the school of engineering didn't think it was important.

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


big scary monsters posted:

I agree that more overlap in education would be good, but that then gets into lots of other big questions about higher education. UK degrees are probably too short even for the core content they are meant to cover, introducing mandatory modules in unrelated fields would make that worse. If your education system is intended to give you the bare minimum skills employers want and/or a piece of paper to prove that you could afford to go to university then this is all working as intended. If it's meant to be for the pursuit of knowledge, self-betterment, producing well-rounded people, a better society and all that then it's failing in a lot more ways that I can't work up the will to type about because it's too much and too disheartening.
I actually really like the idea of 4-year degrees with an American-style thingy where you spend a year loving around studying poo poo for fun & decide what you really want to do after that.

It's not gonna happen given the commodification of education, it'd just be great for society if people had a more rounded worldview, & great for the individuals too: I see so many students who are obvious on the wrong course and making themselves miserable, but there's so many pressures that by the time they've badly hosed up completed a year they feel like they're in too deep to change their mind

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


Necrothatcher posted:

I'm fully expecting the total number of patients seen to be criminally low - and gently caress them if they lean on COVID as justification for that.
tbf the literal reading of that FOI (~0.4% of patients seen within a year) is criminally low, I don't think anyone who isn't being transparently disingenuous would argue otherwise. Like the only argument to be made would be "it's not quite as criminally low as people said :smug:", which is why it's important to get the facts straight imo

TACD posted:

I’m assuming it’ll reveal an absolutely massive increase in people identifying as trans over the last census that will show how woefully inadequate the current system is.
Showing demand for services is literally the point of the census (as described to census collectors for the purpose of persuading people to fill it in, anyway), so it'll be good news if this happens

which I guess is why the transphobe lobby is kicking off that people are allowed to record their gender identity :(

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
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I AM THERESA MAY


Rumda posted:

If should be filled out as if it was done on the 21st by the 21st
bit of a moot points with lockdown restrictions

"please tell us what guests you were illegally entertaining so we can make a note of it, & I guess you can confess to whatever other crimes you're doing as well if you feel like it"

Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
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I AM THERESA MAY


NotJustANumber99 posted:

I think the argument is that actually its too high, because everyone else is waiting years for an appointment so how did those 2 people jump the queue? Like in general its low and bad gut given the actual situation that number should be zero.
My assumption would be because of triage, people don't get seen in a linear order for most things. idk though.

(& the actual number should be 100% with a much smaller queue, obviously, waiting a year sounds like torture)

Rumda posted:

I have mine this afternoon...
Really hope it goes well for you comrade

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Borrovan
Aug 15, 2013

IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY


A comrade of mine from Netpol asked me to sign this petition about the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, you should all sign it too:

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/protect-the-freedom-to-protest

(yes I know petitions are massive wastes of energy, but Netpol is a great organisation & can be trusted to actually keep pushing once it gets ignored)

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