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I don't mind pogoing in Ducktales because you just hold down the button but having to press it at the right time to bounce around like that is a solid nope from me.
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Mar 18, 2021 23:17
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I can't deal with a game that doesn't give you a map that shows where you are on it by default, or requires you to give up precious badge slots to see where you are on it. So this only further confirms I would hate playing this game, and I'm glad to experience it via someone else playing it so I don't have to.  Because so much about this game is really neat, and I enjoy watching it.
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Mar 25, 2021 04:46
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I also assumed the electrified jellyfish would cause you to take damage if you tried to attack them, mostly because I too thought the weapon was metal. But on top of that, the big ones don't crackle with electricity, so a visual difference between the big and small ones (besides, you know, the size) to me indicates "These ones will hurt you, these ones won't." I'm going to go ahead and assume that one passage with the thorns implies that there's going to be a Super Metroid style wall jump ability later, considering how they were laid out in the perfect arrangement to for that kind of wall jump. I figure there's also a double jump ability at some point too, which I guess also could clear those thorns, but again it's the arrangement of the thorns that says "wall jump" to me since a double jump only area would just be a platform too high to jump to. Which we've seen plenty of those as well. On top of that if the wall jump allows for multiple jumps in a row, it would still be distinct from a double jump and allow you to reach even higher places (as long as the passage is narrow enough to keep bouncing without losing height).
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Mar 27, 2021 10:31
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Wait there's a story? I mean I know there is but I didn't know we were even supposed to know what the story was yet. All I can tell is there's this old kingdom that got destroyed and apparently it has some sort of attraction (magical?) that drew the citizens of that first town to go down into the ruins in search of treasure or something. And then a disembodied voice said something about seals and the Magus Sisters from FFX exploded the universe. As far as the character's motivation all I've got is "he also wanted to explore the ruins." When Tea asked "Why did you go there?" my response would have been "Because the map said there was a path there." I wasn't aware there's supposed to be any goal for the main character.
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Mar 30, 2021 01:47
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Aside from the example of releasing works in some dead language that was given (and is pretty rare), it is kind of problematic to an extent that video games are the only entertainment you can buy that you are prevented from fully enjoying unless you're "good enough," books and movies don't do that. Not every game needs to be Kirby's Epic Yarn by default (and I'm not bashing that game because it's one of my favorite games), but I feel like every game should be allowed to be that easy if that's what the player wants. There's plenty of people who want this, little kids who enjoy games but aren't that good at them, people who enjoy the story and atmosphere but don't have enough time to "git gud," or people with handicaps or other limitations.pointlessone posted:"THAT'S NOT OUR VISION." And I hate that as an excuse too. If your vision is just to make a really difficult game then don't put effort into the story. I know that sounds kind of dumb, but seriously. If you want to make your game world cool and interesting and have all sorts of secret lore in it, that means people who aren't good at difficult platforming but enjoy interesting stories and atmosphere will want to experience it, and by making the game difficult you're essentially telling them "Sorry you don't get to enjoy this, we have deemed you not worthy." Like look at Super Meat Boy. It's insanely hard, and it has no story. "Rescue your girlfriend from the evil guy." Boom that's it, who cares about the story, it's about the gameplay and challenge. That's fine, because people who don't enjoy playing the game for the challenge itself aren't missing out on anything. The people who made it just wanted to make a challenging game and that's what they did. Even JRPGs kind of do this, like I'm replaying FFX right now and there's tons of superbosses in the monster arena but defeating them doesn't unlock any new story scenes or give you new information about the game world, it's just "Hey here's a challenge, if you want to do it, do it, if you don't, who cares." Some people might feel like it isn't "fair" that someone who isn't good at games gets to play the full game on a super easy difficulty while they played on a super hard one (whatever "fair" is supposed to even mean in this situation, or how someone else plays a game affects them) but that's what trophies should be for right? Trophies don't actually add anything to the game itself but there's trophies for "Beat this game on the hardest difficulty" and hey that's what you can point to and say see, I did the thing. I got recognition for wanting to be challenged and overcoming it. And if you don't care about that, you don't have to get the trophy, you can just enjoy the game how you want to play it. Challenge isn't bad, but a player should be allowed to choose how much challenge they want, especially if a person might play the game for reasons like "I want to see the story" or "I just want to explore this cool world."
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Mar 31, 2021 08:53
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I can still read Joyce's Ulysses just fine. I may not be able to understand it, but I'm capable of reading the words on the page. I can still reach the end of it even if I'm completely ignorant of the themes behind it. That still makes it much more accessible than video games. e: I understand your point that some works can be difficult to understand, even incomprehensible if you're not paying attention, but again my point was that in a video game if you cannot fly up to the keyhole in Star World 5, you are prohibited from going to the Special World, it is completely inaccessible to you. Content in the game is totally blocked off. If I'm reading Joyce's Ulysses, the omniscient book doesn't ask me questions about the plot and then say "Whoa there, you totally didn't understand it, so you don't get to keep reading it" and lock the book and prevent me from continuing to read it. I can still read it, the content is still there for me to access, whether I understand it or not, which is completely different from a game. e2: quote:Hollow Knight has full mod support. Why not just install a godmode mod? Why do the developers themselves have to be the ones to accommodate you? Because it's the developers' job to make a game accessible for people, it shouldn't be left to the whims of chance that someone on the internet might do that, because they might not. In a world where Hollow Knight somehow became an unpopular game very few people cared about, there's a good chance nobody would have made a godmode mod for it because nobody with the skills would have cared to do so. But even if a game is hugely unpopular there will always be some people who want to play it or will enjoy it, but wouldn't be able to because the mod didn't exist. Not to mention some people aren't good with computer. Yes, I'm an adult capable of installing a mod myself, but a seven year old might not be capable of that, and their parents or guardians may not have that skillset either. If my mom was taking care of a kid who asked her to install a mod on Hollow Knight my mom would be completely lost, she doesn't have that kind of computer knowledge, she wouldn't even know what the kid was talking about. Not everyone is capable of doing things that you might consider super basic, that's kind of the point of this discussion in the first place. Besides "why do the developers have to be the ones to accommodate you" can also be extended to things like making sure the game is playable for deaf people, or colorblind people, and it should be obvious why it's kind of hosed up to ask that question when it comes to those sorts of limitations. Twelve by Pies fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Mar 31, 2021 |
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Mar 31, 2021 11:12
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Reveilled posted:A game is a blending of that form of entertainment with skill-based recreation, and there's lots of skill-based recreations where you need to be "good enough" to enjoy them fully. You can't ski down a double black slope unless you're good enough at skiing, you can't make tempered chocolate unless you're good enough at cooking, you can't put a ship in a bottle unless you're good enough at model building. Why is the appropriate comparison for video games to film and books, and not to hobbies? That's a pretty good point and actually I did think about sports when I was writing that post, like you probably aren't going to play baseball if you're not good at baseball. Then again some people are terrible at sports but enjoy playing them anyway, and we do make some sports easier for kids (tee ball is just an easier version of baseball), so something like model building is probably a better comparison. I guess the difference is that with something like that, there isn't much you can do to make the experience easier. There's definitely lower skill levels of models out there that have snap together parts and are pre-painted, but there's a limit to what you can do before you're just selling a pre-assembled figure. Video games are different in that you can't sell a "finished" video game. Not a joke about how games are buggy, but you can sell a finished model, I can build a model and then sell it to someone who can't build models. But you can't just sell a copy of Mario Odyssey that's at the ending, if that makes sense (or a save file that's at the ending). Giving someone a save file with all fifty billion moons collected means they don't get to see or experience the story stuff in earlier levels because it was already done. I guess the reason I'm mostly comparing video games to books and movies is in the sense that games often have characters, story and endings, the same way movies and books (usually) do. There are exceptions of course, I mentioned Super Meat Boy in my post which doesn't really have a story and is there just for the pure challenge of playing a difficult platforming game. You don't have to be "smart enough" to finish a movie or book, nobody's going to come into the theater and tap you on the shoulder and say "I'm sorry, you lack the understanding needed to finish this movie, so you're going to have to leave," whereas a game with a cutscene or lore hidden behind a superboss or kaizo-level platforming challenge is perfectly content to say "I'm sorry, you lack the skill needed to finish this game." You could look up the cutscene on Youtube I guess, again, assuming enough people play the game that someone cares enough to upload it, but if someone doesn't, you're kinda screwed. There's content in your game you paid for you can't access, which makes it fundamentally different from a movie or book where every word or every scene on film can be read and watched. A puzzle, or model building, or playing baseball, none of those have that issue, which is why books and movies are a better comparison I feel. Essentially building a model or playing a sport, the activity itself is the fun, whereas with a game the fun could be from the story or lore even if the game isn't as fun as a game. One of the things I've heard about the Skyward Sword release is "I can't wait to play it again, even though that does mean playing it again." They enjoy the world and exploration but think the swordfighting and the "Dark World" challenges (I don't remember what they're actually called) really suck. Still, they're willing to play parts of the game they think aren't fun because it allows them to get to more fun things later. The activity itself isn't the fun for them, it's something else they find fun that the activity gets them to. There isn't really a direct comparison for that in sports (except maybe "being rich and famous from getting good at sports") or model building (since you could just buy a finished model, if the model is all you care about). Dareon posted:To this end, I feel explicitly allowing modding is the best compromise. If you don't like a given feature, you or someone like you is welcome to change it, you/they just have to put in a significant fraction of the work we did to make that feature in the first place. Despite my earlier post I do think that's a pretty great compromise even if I think it still has problems (lack of interest from a modding community, lack of knowledge of how to apply a mod), but it at least allows for the possibility of changing a game to be more comfortable to someone. Like there's an old NES game I like called Arkista's Ring. loving nobody else has heard of it, and as such there's no mods for it, or at least no dedicated modding community. So if I wanted a mod to make the game more playable, I'd be poo poo out of luck because nobody's made a mod for it, and I sure as hell don't have the programming skills to mod a game. So this is why I kind of feel like "Just leave it up to modders!" is a bit lacking as a solution. Though, again, I do think it's a good idea to explicitly allow modding in games and it definitely helps.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:54
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Out of curiosity since Nat bought three colors, do you get multiple pins if you just buy one color or are you limited to one of each color (and thus four in total)?
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Apr 1, 2021 04:20
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You can double tap the d pad to dash in the MMX games, and if you map shoot to Y and jump to B (that might be the default but just in case it isn't) you can easily shoot/hold a charge shot, dash and jump all at the same time without doing a claw grip.
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Apr 3, 2021 03:41
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What's that shiny white thing in Queen's Station that Nat has been avoiding like the plague? It doesn't look like one of the statues that just gives you soul meter. Also I'm extremely dumb and can't figure out things that don't just tell you the story. Hell, Nat's theory about the world being a memory is better than anything I can come up with in regards to the plot. I'm not saying I necessarily need a story to tell me everything up front, I like when there's hints of things to come, but I don't like just "Here, figure it out yourself, we can't be assed to explain it."
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Apr 6, 2021 08:48
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Reveilled posted:This might not be easily visible depending on the video's resolution, but there's a closed gate in front of the shiny white thing, so he can't get it currently, and will need to find another way round. You're right that it's not a soul statue. Nah not the video resolution, just my inability to see things. I had no idea a gate was blocking it.I saw a video the other day that Youtube recommended that would have spoiled a pretty major thing and I would be angry about it if I cared about spoilers (or if I thought Nat would do the same thing, which I'm sure he wouldn't). It's kind of irritating that that happens to people who do care about spoilers though.
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Apr 6, 2021 18:19
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Everyone's been really impressed Nat hasn't died yet in this LP and I feel like part of the reason is he's making use of the tools the game's given him, trying to get him to not use the hadouken would probably make him more likely to die. Plus, as has been said, if the soul meter is full, you might as well use it, since it's effectively being "wasted" when you attack enemies with a full meter.
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Apr 8, 2021 09:53
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Getting flashbacks to Gate's Laboratory from X6 with all that air dashing through spikes in that last section.
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Apr 10, 2021 05:07
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That openness is actually why I really like Super Metroid but don't really like how Hollow Knight looks. I like it when a game gives me clear goals, even if I don't have to do it immediately. Breath of the Wild is a good example. I know where the game wants me to go, I have a destination. I'll probably get distracted on the way to that destination and explore the surrounding areas but I know where I'm supposed to go. I don't like having absolutely no direction whatsoever. I know some people love that but it's not for me, it's the same reason why I don't care about Minecraft but love Dragon Quest Builders. Just going "Do whatever you want!" leaves me going "I don't know what I want to do" and just not doing anything.
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Apr 19, 2021 14:53
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Dung Defender seems like a cool dude, I want him at my party.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:43
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The talk about laser using characters in fighting games reminds me of possibly the most broken character in fighting games, Ivan Ooze from MMPR: The Fighting Edition. He can fly around the screen, shoots homing projectiles, and can give himself a shield (though he can't block)
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Apr 27, 2021 02:32
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I think the Magus Sisters said the word "plague" at that one monument. So yeah that sounds like probably what happened is that the area got infected by some disease turning the bugs into zombie bugs and so they sealed it away so the plague wouldn't spread to the rest of the world. This makes sense for why Hornet is piseed at us and trying to stop us, because we're trying to break the seals I guess for...reasons? Maybe we're the bad guy and we want the plague to infect the world.
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Apr 28, 2021 22:36
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Talking about platforming bosses in Mega Man just made me remember Gate from X6 which is a loving awful fight, especially after X5's change to no longer let X's buster shots go through walls.
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May 6, 2021 02:28
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Black Robe posted:I'm rewatching Nat's LP of Symphony of the Night and he and Tea get into a long conversation about signposts and being pointed towards upgrades, and how being able to annotate a map is important to Nat, and Tea mentions that he just bought Hollow Knight and you can do that in that game. I think that has to do partially with the fact that the game won't give you the map until you reach a bench, and often when he's reached a bench he's usually trying to figure out where to go next, so what he's already seen isn't foremost on his mind (that and he might not be 100% sure where it is on the map). Being able to annotate a map is important, but it also relies on the game giving you the map.
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May 12, 2021 05:05
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Shitenshi posted:And I think the upgraded Hadouken isn't so much the Zero Buster as Tea said, but more the arm upgrade capsule for the X Buster. I assumed Tea meant it in the sense that in X1 and X3 you can get X Buster upgrades from Zero and I can imagine people calling them the "Zero Buster."
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May 25, 2021 02:24
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Fantastic Foreskin posted:Isn't it shot-shot-sword in X3? Also, being Zero's gun Zero Buster is correct. Unlike when Tea called the X Buster the Mega Buster a few episodes back Yeah, in X1 Zero's buster is functionally the same as the arm capsule parts, except in Maverick Hunter where it's more powerful (and I think you have to skip the arm parts to get it), in X3 it just adds the sword attack as a third level of X powering up. Also at least in X5 and X6, it's called the Z Buster in the description of Parts that affect it. Anyway, getting back to the game this LP is about, I now retroactively agree with Nat's decision to avoid Deepnest as long as possible.
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May 25, 2021 09:51
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