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THS posted:lol ok. keep the thread going for now though. the thread has only been up a couple hours, not a lot of people have had a chance to offer their opinions, and I have been one of the top posters. I’m also one of the worst posters, so get some more feedback yeah, this is my thinking. it doesn't matter what we say because sa isn't a democracy
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Mar 24, 2021 21:30
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Gringostar posted:in fairness i didn't argue otherwise. but at least if you have an issue with the government you can go protest and get arrested or something. here you can either complain endlessly or just stop posting, neither of which has any real effect
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Mar 24, 2021 21:43
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Gringostar posted:i don’t know, you could make the analogy that being probated/banned is being put in jail and being permabanned is being murdered by the state that analogy exists, but being probed/banned/permad has no effect on the site whatsoever. being jailed or murdered by the state means money is going to have to exchange hands and paperwork is gonna have to be filed. there's a tangible effect
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Mar 24, 2021 21:54
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Gringostar posted:this can only be assumed if mods didn’t have reports to read or a mod forum to post in well the experience here is that mods just see the words "genocide denial" and hit the probe/ban button, so we can't say they're doing much work. and they're volunteers so its not like they have any real stake in it also why would you pay money to re-reg
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Mar 24, 2021 21:59
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Is anti-China rhetoric really any worse than it was in 2008, outside of covid-related racism? until relatively recently i never heard anyone talk about china as anything other than "that communist country where they make all our stuff" and only in the past few years have i begun to see and hear people talking about china as a threat to the united states
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Mar 25, 2021 00:16
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Nix Panicus posted:As a corollary, start ramping up probes for any apologists for the US penal or immigration systems. this will never never happen because d&d runs things, but people aren't going to apologize for american crimes. they're going to hem and haw about how this is the way things are and there's no alternatives at the moment and we just have to keep voting blue and eventually something good will happen
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Mar 25, 2021 00:23
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Gringostar posted:again though, luckily humanity will be going extinct soon so this debate is entirely academic over who is going to lord over our final demise it seems like you have bigger issues to deal with than the moderation of a subset of these dying gay comedy forums
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Mar 25, 2021 00:51
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Relevant Tangent posted:Put quite simply if what the Chinese are doing to their own citizens was being done to Americans by Americans other Americans would rightfully call it a genocide. 
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Mar 25, 2021 14:37
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ah, but gradenko, those aren't americans, those are just refugees fleeing conditions created by american imperialism. gotcha'd
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Mar 25, 2021 15:08
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Relevant Tangent posted:Would you put your family into the camps in China? this isn't an answer to the question
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Mar 25, 2021 15:23
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Relevant Tangent posted:there's no sources i believe that you believe, we don't interact with the same reality maybe you should post some of those sources that you believe. or not, this is an entertaining meltdown either way
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Mar 25, 2021 15:26
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OK baizuo posted:Stop being so obviously disingenuous by equating re-education to extermination. for me it was realizing that authoritarianism is fake
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Mar 25, 2021 15:31
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Dolphin posted:No one in Cspam defends this. It's also extremely stupid to equate the two. There's a much better example under FDR. why would we reference the concentration camps of 70 years ago when we have concentration camps right now?
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Mar 25, 2021 16:02
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Dolphin posted:the concentration camps are an evil unto themselves, but the ones south could not be reasonable construed as a genocide. neither are the ones in xinjiang
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Mar 25, 2021 16:07
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Dolphin posted:yes they are. okay, what's the proof?
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Mar 25, 2021 16:12
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Dolphin posted:is this the part where I cite 60 different sources and you find out that the author has a second cousin who works for the state department? this hyperbole isn't helping your argument. post the sources
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Mar 25, 2021 16:17
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Dolphin posted:it isn't hyperbole, it's literally a conspiracy theory roughly on par with "but russia" well then post the sources so we can see that it isn't a conspiracy theory
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Mar 25, 2021 16:20
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Dolphin posted:For one, there are no reports of that on the southern border or we'd be talking about it in a megathread perhaps the oppressive united states corporate media apparatus isn't interested in disseminating any such reports
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Mar 25, 2021 16:25
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Dolphin posted:perhaps. we also have no evidence of that. just like you've provided no evidence of genocide taking place in china. weird
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Mar 25, 2021 16:28
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Dolphin posted:there's also this weird notion that propaganda is necessarily incorrect. propaganda is most effective when it's accurate. the state department isn't broadcasting conditions at the southern border because it isn't beneficial to the state department but that doesn't mean what they're saying about conditions abroad is wrong. they could just as easily be lying tho. where's your proof that what they're saying is correct? your argument is getting flimsier and flimsier by the post
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Mar 25, 2021 16:35
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Dolphin posted:no actually the thing you just made up does not have the same value as something based on decades of precedent and thousands of reports what did i make up? where are the decades of precedent and thousands of reports? surely this exists, so why not provide it? it seems like you're not particularly sure of your sources, and are afraid of scrutiny
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Mar 25, 2021 16:37
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Dolphin posted:sure they could be lying. where's your evidence of that? where's your evidence that they aren't?
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Mar 25, 2021 16:39
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Dolphin posted:yeah that's not how burden of proof works. i mean it seems like its on you to prove that china is committing genocide
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Mar 25, 2021 16:40
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the united states government has been lying about drat near everything for my entire life, why should i start believing them now?
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Mar 25, 2021 16:43
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Dolphin posted:no, that's also not how burden of proof works. there appears to be widespread consensus that this is a thing that is occurring so it's incumbent on you to prove that it isn't. kinda like how everyone says gravity is a thing and if i say it's been wrong all along i have to provide the evidence. widespread consensus? among who? it doesn't seem like that consensus exists here, or anywhere else i've looked for information on the topic. so i think you should start posting the sources that you most assuredly have. (you do have them right?)
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Mar 25, 2021 16:44
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:So is no one else going to acknowledge this post, or...? sounds bad. i could tell you a dozen stories just like it of refugees being put into ins (now ice) vans and disappearing forever
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Mar 25, 2021 16:45
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Dolphin posted:buT wHaT aBoUt tHE US "and you are lynching negroes" the more things change, the more they stay the same
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Mar 25, 2021 16:48
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Yeah and that's Extremely Bad, and my assertion is that's what's going on in China is Probably Bad, maybe even Extremely Bad. But I think it's been conclusively demonstrated here itt that the stories of organ harvesting or whatever are all bullshit. what proof do you or i have that those refugees weren't taken into the woods and shot? barring that, who's to say that upon return to their home countries (ravaged by american imperialism) they weren't shot, or contracted a fatal disease, or starved to death, etc. etc. etc.? all i'm saying is that there's no proof of anything, i can make up all sorts of horrible ends for these people just like zenz and the state department if it serves my interests can you expand on the probably bad/extremely bad threat level assessment? i think it has promise
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Mar 25, 2021 16:51
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fanfic insert posted:also that bit where federal agents are picking up people from the streets of portland. i mean they reappear(?) later but it still the state kidnapping citizens from the streets in the good ol' US of KKK let's not forget that reinhol dude who got merced in the street by federal agents. or the blm protesters who mysteriously committed suicide. or the assassination of fred hampton. or, or, or
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Mar 25, 2021 16:53
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:loving look at the definitions of genocide used to establish consensus on the United States committing genocide at the southern border and tell me that rounding up entire ethnic groups and putting them in an internment camp doesn't meet it. the united states is not committing genocide on the southern border. give it a couple of years for the climate refugee waves to start hitting, then we'll most certainly be gunning people down in the open
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Mar 25, 2021 17:11
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this book seems to be about the cultural revolution, with a surrounding push to say that what is happening in xinjiang today is the same thing. not sure this one holds up SpiderHyphenMan posted:Okay time out I thought c-spam consensus was pretty clear on this one. i mean i could be the odd man out here but i've only seen concentration camp rhetoric, not death camp.
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Mar 25, 2021 17:15
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THS posted:wait is there evidence that biden is systemically exterminating refugees on the border? that is hosed up, and i’m against it not so much "systematically exterminating" as "detaining in horrific conditions and then chaotically exiling back to an uncertain fate in places turned to poo poo by american intervention" its all very neoliberal, very hands-off. the most enterprising refugees will make it back, the others will not. the free market at work
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Mar 25, 2021 17:19
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Dolphin posted:This is pathetic dude refute it THS posted:yeah sorry i was flippant, i just want to be careful on terms - if only because this entire thread is essentially about what terms should be used to describe what and if people should be banned for using the wrong terms not that our opinions matter, but people should not be probed or banned for using the wrong terms or expressing skepticism, and terms should not themselves be banned (lol d&d). probes and bans should be reserved for active cheerleading of these efforts imo
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Mar 25, 2021 17:25
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Dolphin posted:https://www.utjd.org/ what makes it not a slam dunk to point out that his methodology is bad and his motivations aren't what he claims? also his ties to adrian zenz are pretty lolworthy
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Mar 25, 2021 17:27
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ram dass in hell posted:A thing that I'm interested in is using this entire conversation as a data point in the consideration of things like propaganda, overton windows, the scope of allowable possibilities, the default conceptual framework of ideology that biases us all to be receptive to certain ideas and dismissive of others. I think many of us if not most of us itt have had our beliefs on this issue changed at least a tiny bit. It's interesting to think about why we started where we started. it hasn't changed my opinion on china at all (don't care for 'em) but looking into xinjiang has really broadened my horizons on actual genocides in the past and present
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Mar 25, 2021 17:37
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works for the australian strategic policy institute, lol. funded by the department of defence
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Mar 25, 2021 17:55
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Dolphin posted:Cool. Wanna debunk it rather than do the ad hominem thing again? how is it an ad hominem to point out where someone works and who they get their funding from? one can easily derive all sorts of motives from this information that discredits their work
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Mar 25, 2021 17:57
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Dolphin posted:It's an ad hominem because you're attacking the source of the information rather than addressing the argument itself. The points in his argument do not specifically rely on his credentials as an authority, if he said "I work for the Australian such and such and therefore I can say that yes it's a genocide" then you could call it a conflict of interest. the fact that he doesn't straight up identify himself as an agent of a think tank funded by the austrailian government is even more sus imo. of course none of these ghoulish motherfuckers do that, which is why it took me a minute of following links to find out how full of poo poo he is
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Mar 25, 2021 18:03
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ram dass in hell posted:My dude you need to destroy the part of your thinking that has completely internalized the framing used by the CIA, you are doing pro bono propaganda work for the united states government because you refuse to consider that there are bad actors involved in the manufacture of narrative its incredible that people who supposedly lived through 9/11 and the manufacturing of consent for war with afghanistan and iraq are so trusting of the government and people funded by it
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Mar 25, 2021 18:06
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Unlike the CCP, who has never lied to their own people or to the world about anything. its amazing that you still reflexively see that post as a defense of the ccp (who i emphatically do not like or agree with)
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Mar 25, 2021 18:10
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