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World War Mammories posted:"you are obligated to continue supporting the studio after it was couped by human personifications of greed because otherwise the workers they're holding hostage might not get a few of the crumbs" always seemed rather short-sighted to me RIGHT! TO! WORK!
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Feb 16, 2024 02:52
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Tungsten posted:literally murder all human beings regardless of their political beliefs This doesn’t seem communist, fascist, ultraliberal OR moralist???
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Feb 16, 2024 02:59
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General Battuta posted:This doesn’t seem communist, fascist, ultraliberal OR moralist??? The old man stares at the reeds. His face shows no emotion -- only a faint tremor passes over his features, like a leaf in the wind.
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Feb 16, 2024 03:03
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Quote one of those fascist or communist things or gently caress off.
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Feb 16, 2024 05:12
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I was waiting until I learned whether I liked playing the sequel to decide whether it was a crude clone by IP thieves or a genius continuation of a beloved idea by a team troubled under capitalism. Now that I'll never play it, it definitely would've been s crude clone by IP thieves.
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Feb 16, 2024 05:32
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Did they even say what the expansion pack (that apparently ballooned into something that cost more than the original) was even going to be about?
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Feb 16, 2024 05:38
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The cocaine skull, obviously.
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Feb 16, 2024 07:16
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oh im not saying you had to play it just like, getting mad at the random guy who textures brick walls is weird. he didnt texture the brick walls in the original out of an artistic vision he was doing a job. he will continue texturing the brick walls until they tell him there are no more brick walls to texture. get mad at the actual bosses who wanted to rent out the IP to amazon or whatever, sure
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Feb 16, 2024 07:26
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It is extremely weird for anyone to got online to cape for their bosses for any reason, even a good boss. Not worth pillorying someone over. I just cannot understand why you would do that.
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Feb 16, 2024 07:52
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I'm sort of glad that Disco is dead. It was *so* good that even the original team would probably have struggled to hit that high again. And the isolated fragility of one beautiful moment is in itself very disco. I'll be thinking about this game my whole life, and that's enough.
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Feb 16, 2024 08:58
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Even without ZA/UM clusterfuck no sequel would ever meet enormous expectations set by DE.
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Feb 16, 2024 12:51
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I don't think you need to deify the game that much. It's an incredible, singular game but plenty of people have written more than one good novel
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Feb 16, 2024 12:58
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I suspect whatever Red Info (or whatever they call themselves eventually) makes will be pretty solid, actually. Hopefully the people in charge have learned from this clusterfuck. Also, more tea: https://videogames.si.com/news/disco-elysium-dev-zaum-layoffs-last-writer-speaks-out quote:We asked how the studio culture changed at ZA/UM after the departure of most of the original writing team and the airing of the People Make Games documentary looking into the legal battle that ensued afterward. “It’s like transitioning from the Soviet Union to the fascist Russian Federation,” Tuulik said. “Wearing the dead cultural movement like a skin costume, roleplaying communism, lying for dollars and yen. PMG doc changed lots of things in the studio. Personal dynamics. None for the better.” quote:Concluding our conversation, Tuulik stated that “the fish starts rotting from the head, not the tail or the midsection. Don't get angry at the junior producer, mid-level lead, senior artist, community manager etc. They didn't know, were kept in the dark. It's not their fault. It was their love for Disco, not dystopian totalitarianism, that brought them here. It's their worst nightmare too. I get the vibe Tuulik wants back in with the unprofessional enfants terribles.
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Feb 16, 2024 13:07
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What's red info? I only found out about the recent cancellations and layoff, haven't been paying attention to zaum
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Feb 16, 2024 13:11
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sebzilla posted:I'm sort of glad that Disco is dead. This is what happens when we get the first game that's as well written as a good novel and not just well written by video game standards. Don't get it twisted: I really enjoyed DE and had a good long think at several points throughout the game. It's probably the only game I've played that made me react as much as a good book does. It's quite a work of art, but if anything it proves that video games can do something besides adolescent power fantasies, escapism, misogyny, and reaction in their writing. I'm skeptical about just about everyone in the industry, though, so it may be a while. But we already have evidence that the writers can do more that is just as good if not better. We have Sacred and Terrible Air. There's no reason to think they couldn't do more. Whether or not it is a video game is another question.
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Feb 16, 2024 13:12
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The Saddest Rhino posted:What's red info? I only found out about the recent cancellations and layoff, haven't been paying attention to zaum Kurvitz and co registered a new company with some Chinese capital (allegedly) last year, apparently. Kurvitz, Rostov, someone from China and someone who seems to be a financial advisor/business coach from UK are the directors currently: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14189378 That's all we know atm.
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Feb 16, 2024 13:18
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sebzilla posted:I'm sort of glad that Disco is dead. Un jour je serai de retour près de toi.
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Feb 16, 2024 13:24
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I'm mostly annoyed about the circumstances even it is poetic in a disgusting manner. I don't think they would've pulled a second rabbit out of their hat; I just wish they could've kept their IP.
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Feb 16, 2024 13:37
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Endorph posted:oh im not saying you had to play it just like, getting mad at the random guy who textures brick walls is weird. he didnt texture the brick walls in the original out of an artistic vision he was doing a job. he will continue texturing the brick walls until they tell him there are no more brick walls to texture. get mad at the actual bosses who wanted to rent out the IP to amazon or whatever, sure in my estimation, you're making up a guy. two guys, actually. one who's mad at random texture artists rather than the bosses and the company they control, and one who's simply saying "just blame the bosses" when what's actually being said, to which the response was, is: panko posted:the one new employee who went hard on making GBS threads on kurvitz on twitter in defense of kompus-helmed za/um seems to have completely deleted their web presence though I did find this "...this rhetoric and framing of 'time to move on from this studio' because part of the core team left? is dismissive to all of us, and harmful for the industry" and "...I see no good will or benefit of someone with your reach framing the situation like this and urge people to 'not follow studios', other than clout chasing." how else is someone supposed to react to this farce, if even something so basic as encouraging others to "not follow [ZA/UM]" has no point other than "clout chasing"? I can't show up in an estonian court and testify about how much I want to kiss robert kurvitz and helen hindpere on the lips because I like the game about having gently caress. what else am I supposed to do to cause kompus and haavel to suffer the smallest iota of consequences, or at least not materially benefit from their misdeeds quite as much as they otherwise would, other than not purchase their company's output and encourage others to do the same? given that tuulik was apparently "the last remaining writer at ZA/UM to have worked on the company's greatest hit," and the rest of his angry rhetoric in that article, I feel pretty confident in my choice some months ago to "move on from this studio" and suggesting others do as well, regardless of what this binauralfusion person says
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Feb 16, 2024 15:52
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not really talking about this thread but i 100% saw people on twitter and reddit et. all who were yelling at the random employees which is the headspace that resetera post probably came from
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Feb 16, 2024 16:36
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The solution is obviously yelling at them more.
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Feb 16, 2024 17:00
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“Gamers should seethe and rage and call devs gay” - Dylan Thomas I think
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Feb 16, 2024 17:03
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I feel sad for the people working there who have lost their jobs. Some of them are in the PMG documentary, and while one comes across as a bit self-righteous there is a dude there who was convinced to move to the UK (surely the worst part) with his wife and has a kid now, among many others. I feel sad for Kurvitz, Rostov and Hindpere having their creative entity taken from them through a series of [possibly] legal but nevertheless lovely maneuvers. Without them, no matter how arsey they were to work for, a DE sequel or DLC would not have been the same. I do not feel sad for the investors who hosed both groups, and I understand a boycott of the studio's further efforts as any future funds going into the DE pot will benefit mostly those arseholes. I doubt this will be the last round of layoffs, nor do I doubt that once they poison the name completely and the investment dries up, they will happily sell everything off and walk away; still millionaires, still not feeling a second of guilt. It is possible to think all of these things at once! The situation is complex, horrible, multifaceted, angering and sad, all at once. Capitalism's victories are never without a body count. In summary, I make you feel sad now with music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dhSWZTpwyE A beautiful eulogy, that ends too abruptly. 
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Feb 16, 2024 17:03
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Only in the Next World. It is too late for us.
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Feb 16, 2024 17:16
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Endorph posted:not really talking about this thread but i 100% saw people on twitter and reddit et. all who were yelling at the random employees which is the headspace that resetera post probably came from mk. still not going to let some dingus tell me I shouldn't encourage people to avoid za/um's hollowed-out corpse
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Feb 16, 2024 17:23
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I don't care at all about the ZA/UM name or even the IP itself necessarily, I'm entirely interested in whatever the people who made Disco make next. If none of them are at ZA/UM then ZA/UM is just another dev studio that will make something good or maybe they won't, the world isn't wanting for studios where all the original talent is long gone. I think history has borne out that the documentary of what happened didn't do a very good job at its stated goal, and the people saying so at the time were ultimately proven to be correct. I'm just hoping this is their Kojima arc and now they can really go wild and do something even more incredible.
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Feb 16, 2024 17:42
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now that they've cancelled a few games and fired a bunch of people za/um can focus on their real vache à lait: selling 489€ jackets to computer touchers
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Feb 16, 2024 17:45
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Feb 16, 2024 18:56
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Reddit: So there really was a toxic and sexist environment inside ZA/UM but you'll never guess who the actual culprit was. Pretty good post about how things were falling apart even without Kurvitz to blame.
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Feb 16, 2024 23:58
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panko posted:now that they've cancelled a few games and fired a bunch of people za/um can focus on their real vache à lait: selling 489€ jackets to computer touchers an honest way to profit, imo
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Feb 17, 2024 03:03
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I remember when that documentary first came out, and people were being suspicious of it. Turns out it was for good reason.
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Feb 17, 2024 06:36
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Double post, I know, but I figured we could use something droll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PqLEgCtU84
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Feb 18, 2024 10:54
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Reddit: So there really was a toxic and sexist environment inside ZA/UM but you'll never guess who the actual culprit was. projection: always a classic
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Feb 18, 2024 18:52
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Does za/um own the DE ip or also the fantasy world ip too?
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Feb 18, 2024 23:59
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Complicated. I believe after the legal wrangling described in the PMG doc, a legal entity registed in the UK and owned by Tōnis Havel's wife owns the rights? It's hard to remember with all the bullshit that's transpired.
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Feb 19, 2024 01:57
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The art book sure does read like a tragedy now. Looking forward to another bit of game/art/media made by the games initial leads, but it will just always suck that they lost the rights to their decades-old homegrown dnd world that was truly something unique and new. Disco was clearly just a small slice of a world that may never be known now. Labeling the doc propaganda seems misguided. It didn't seem that hard to walk away from it going "well ok some of the major players were pissing off their colleagues in a few ways" but mostly thinking "huh that guy sure did commit fraud to steal this IP dang". Can get why Arlo did the doc, if for no other reason than to air that there were other writers on the game, which seems to get lost in a lot of the individual worship. One would hope a swift death for the studio given how much they're just pissing on their golden goose and torching what little optimism there is for more in that world. Fuckin' worthless money men.
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Feb 19, 2024 12:27
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To me, a lot of the bits of the doc that fans rip into for both-sidesing or defending the corporate theft are simply documentary makers recognising that they're on libel / slander territory and have to stick to the absolute, objectively verifiable facts. It would be lovely to be able release a YouTube video straight up accusing them of theft and fraud, but as is the case in so many of these situations, without a legal court case where they can say 'It was proven in court that they stole the IP,' they're going to hedge their bets. Even Kurvitz is very careful about the way he words his accusations, though it is funny how he constantly refers to Havel as a financial criminal, because that is something that is is true.
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Feb 19, 2024 15:34
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I think the problem people have with that People Make Games piece is that it puts the credible allegations of Actual Crimes by management and the accusations of unprofessional conduct and vague allegations of toxicity by the founders on equal footing, when really the only pertinent thing in the story should be 'they had their work stole' and they're basically carrying water for management by running 'Kurvitz was burnt out and didn't manage his team well after DE released' so prominently
No Dignity fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Feb 19, 2024 |
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Feb 19, 2024 16:05
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sebzilla posted:I'm sort of glad that Disco is dead. It died in the most disco possible way: murdered by capitalism They couldn't have written it better
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Feb 19, 2024 16:25
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I think that's a rather defeatist way of viewing it, like the idealism itself was always an ephemeral naive dream that was doomed to be crushed by the cold hard inevitable logic of capitalism. Personally I hope they get the band back together and go into make another sick game
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Feb 19, 2024 16:43
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