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Konichiwa Bitches https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2bPR307fHU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn_HAvA33q8 Built between ’99 and 2007, the Toyota MR2 Spyder, also known as the ZZW30 or MR-S, are fun cars. In a world of mean grills, 4,000lbs, and furrowed headlights it's hard to argue with the pleasant early 2000s styling and pleasant driving experience. In 2011 I got a fixer upper. 2001, Yellow, 200k, hardtop. Weighing in at 2200 pounds, this mid engined tadpol came equipped with Toyota’s 1ZZ-FE inline four and 5 speed manual. I had plans, life had others. The engine didn’t last that long. I was not in a situation to fix it. It sat in the garage. It sat for years. During the summer of 2020 I found myself wishing that my little yellow car was running. It was time to do something cool. Over the last 20 years the zzw30 has been home to a few cool engine swaps. 3S-GTE  http://www.superstreetonline.com/features/toyota-mr2-spyder-arta-apexi-mrs-autobacs-racing 2GR-FE  http://www.speedhunters.com/2019/07/forget-new-supra-toyota-looking/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugWBhMiV7-k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6p2MVynY4o 2zz-ge  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op7S0Pv1UTs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skwXopUquhs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbjSVa242hc EJ20T  http://www.speedhunters.com/2020/11/subaru-powered-mr-s-built-attack-time/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNlmqi0Fuag K swap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ROT_GCKIs0 All things considered, I went and did what Toyota should have done in the first place. I got myself a 2ZZ-GE with c60 6 speed transmission. Where the 1zz was of economical design, the 2zz was performance designed by Yamaha. Squaring up the stroke, bumping the compression to 11.5:1 and putting a dual over-head 16 valve VVTL-i head on top gave the zz family some zest. All this together really lets the 1.8 liters breath high into the revs, putting out a naturally aspirated 100 hp per liter at the top. Toyota did not put the 2zz in the MR-S. Along with the Lotus Elise/Exige, Celica GTS, Corolla XRS and Matrix XRS, the Pontiac Vibe GT came equipped with the Yamaha. Swapping in the 2zz/c60 combo is straight forward thanks to being in the same engine & transmission families. Only a couple linkages, a single engine mount, and a handful of repinned wires leading into a Celica GTS ECU stand in the way of a pretty close to factory swap. Let’s go. Donor 2003 Pontiac Vibe Gt    The engine checked out great. Spark plugs golden. Cams smooth. Valve clearance in tolerance. Lift bolts intact. Strong compression. I was getting hyped. With a bunch of work done time came to fire her up. https://vimeo.com/536075848  Time to take it for a spin! wait.... no?!..... it can't be..... is that the Iron Duke's music??!?!?!?!?  https://vimeo.com/536076025 Ouch, right in the ego! After all of that, I didn’t torque down the oil plug. Not 2 miles down the road, the oil light came on and by the time I could pullover only a few drops of oil, catastrophic damage and persistence remained.........
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Apr 12, 2021 23:38
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Ground floor! ... oh. Oh my. I'm sorry.
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Apr 12, 2021 23:53
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ohhhh nooo
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Apr 12, 2021 23:59
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Came for Fiero. Saw MR2. Expected switcheroo. Still surprised. Then. NOOOOOOOOOOO
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Apr 13, 2021 03:00
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Hmm I already have a 2003 vibe gt.
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Apr 13, 2021 03:20
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In on the ground floor! Oh.. its on the ground floor.
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Apr 13, 2021 03:22
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Oh crap. I look forward to seeing this come back to life.
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Apr 13, 2021 11:41
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That user name / post content combo is amazing
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Apr 13, 2021 12:10
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Oof, right in the babymaker. I'm surprised to learn these came with the 1ZZ-FE. It's a solid engine for reliability, but not really anything to write home about in power. How hard is it to find the 2ZZ these days? I see very few Vibes/Matrixes in general in the yards, same for Celicas, but I'm only hitting the self service yards.
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Apr 13, 2021 16:40
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It's always a Fiero.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:59
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EVERYWHERE 
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This is a promising start. The pain in your stomach is completely normal when life kicks you in the nuts. It'll subside. Rise, phoenix, rise. CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:That user name / post content combo is amazing Amen
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Apr 13, 2021 20:15
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Poor 2zz. I'm excited for the rebuild/reswap.
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Apr 14, 2021 02:38
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STR posted:Oof, right in the babymaker. True it's not much for power, but it's still a better power-weight ratio than a NA or NB Miata, and all of that with 30+MPG on 87 octane and corolla levels of parts compatibility. Apparently some people have made the supercharger for the 1zz fit but it's not easy given the midengine thing. If I wasn't somewhere that had snow most of the year and near-constant fatal drops off the side of the road I'd want one of these so bad, but stability and bad weather handling mean it's a bad idea. Like, I couldn't drive it at night in June for fear of getting snow. Does this one have the kickass sequential gearbox? Edit: EJ20T swap sounds terrifying in a 2200lb car, but then again I guess the Factory Five 818 is something that exists.
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Apr 14, 2021 03:38
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Ugh that sucks hope you had a pillow to scream into handy
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Apr 14, 2021 04:31
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gently caress I was was wondering why this was a project thread if the swap is already completed. This blows, and especially the realization that you caused the issue yourself through a moment of inattention or carelessness. Had this feeling when I was rebuilding the gearbox on the shitbox and heard a suspicious crunching sound when tightening the car bolts.
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Apr 14, 2021 07:21
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curses, foiled again
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Apr 14, 2021 11:07
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Day after day, day after day, We stuck, nor breath nor motion;  As idle as a painted ship  Upon a painted ocean.  Engines, engines, every where,  Vrooms silenced to sleep;  Engines, engines, every where,  And not a rev to bleep.  [Staring into void. the void whispers back] “Wisdom’s never free” It sure was a kick to the nuts, but whatevs I am not mad. This is my first rodeo. Stupid was always on the menu. Please do not print that I am mad. The salt in the wound is that a friend has been helping me with the swap and has been the brain & brawn on a lot of very important and challenging aspects of it. At least the stuff that felt insurmountable to me on my own. When thinking about the whole situation I feel like I let him down and besmirched his good work. One of the weird design aspects of the 1zz vs 2zz is in the oil pan. The 1zz came with a windage tray. The 2zz is a soup bowl. One common mods is taking the 1zz pan, cutting a notch to accommodate the different pick up location and fitting it on the 2zz. I did that. I even remember my friend asking if the plug was torqued. I rightfully feel like an idiot about the whole thing. There were many times disaster could have been avoided. OMGVBFLOL posted:curses, foiled again With regards to finding used 2zz. I found it to be a pain after serendipitously finding that Vibe. I’ve been hawking the local self serve junk yards and have came across 5 2zz that looked worth checking out (and fooled by Corolla s on another occasion). They all had obvious issues. This lead me down the jdm route. How stupid. The local place didn’t have any 2zz. Then I ordered one off eBay. Junk. I got my money back. (They still haven’t arranged pick up and it’s sitting in the yard). After that I checked the local place again and grabbed an engine that looked ok. When I got it home and turned it over, a big lob on the intake cam was deeply worn. So I took it back and traded it for another one that looked good. However when I started checking it out, the VVT gear was broke. I called them back and their response was lame. I was at a decision point. I decided gently caress it. Why go part way stupid when you can go hella stupid and fix it. This ordeal also got me second guessing my 2zz decision. Before I did anything I was a thinking about what to swap in for quite a bit. In the end, there were 4 serious considerations. The 2zz was what i had intended all that time ago when i first got the car. It was the engine used by Spirit Pro Techno Pro Spirit to tougue better than the drift king in his ae86 and beat a stock NSX on the track. Problem now is they haven’t been in production for a while. Next was turboing a 1zz. in Europe they offered a dealer turbo for the 1zz. ( pdf of Toyota turbo mr2 installation manual http://dieamond.free.fr/Catalogs/TTE_Turbo.pdf ) Ultimately I didn’t really want to deal with a turbo. The hot new swap is the 2.5l AR-FE. The engines are plentiful, but the e62 transmissions are like hens teeth. Really only came on the Scion Tc and a few Corolla. K swaps seem to be the bee knees if you want fast. Expensive, but fast. In cost, it would have gone 2zz<turbo 1zz<AR<K20. In revs it goes AR<turbo1zz<k20<2zz. When I came across the Vibe GT (last good car built at Fremont facility) and got the engine/transmission for under $500, it seemed obvious what to do. I would make that same decision all day long. But where I sit right now, I find myself second guessing. Oh, the agony of defeat. The current end goal is to complete the 2zz swap, refresh the suspension and have a sporty weekend car I can Autocross every once in a while. The suspension’s current set up is h&r springs on 185F 205R yoko s drives and stock everything else. I have some koni yellow inserts and white line anti sway bars on the shelf. I am trying to decide if I want to go diy coil-over route with some linear springs or stick with koni/h&r springs. Maybe refresh the bushings while I’m there? who the gently caress knows. With regards to superchargers. traditional ones usually mean you need to cut the fire wall. (same with ITB, such as Techno Pro Spirit). European corolla hatchback (matrix) had a supercharger from the factory option. same with the lotus. Some people have gone rotrex style mounted on the exhaust side.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:06
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With a heavy thump, a lifeless 2zz lump
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Apr 14, 2021 18:32
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drat dude, sounds like you went through it. Glad to hear you're still in it to win it. I had my own defeat snatched from the jaws of victory a couple years ago when I pulled the ez30 in my wife's Outback to do the head gaskets. First time I ever pulled an engine. Did it all 'right' to the best of my ability and then when I installed it fired right up... I bled the cooling system got everything back together and took it for a test drive. Then I noticed a little puddle of coolant under the car. I tracked it to some drips coming off the drivers-side head gasket. I pretty much disassociated at that point because I thought I hosed up the HG. I tried to ignore it, but my wife kept asking when she could have her car back so I bought a $900 pluck off ebay and slapped it in. And had the same leak. Turns out I had the coolant return line tweaked a little and it dripped along the timing cover and down to the HG when the system pressurized. Sold the car shortly after and let the rebuilt ez30 go for pennies. I'm a Toyota MR fanboy so I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing where you go from here.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:38
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Boys who love boys
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Snatched from the jaws of victory, ye not guilty. I spent two weeks hammering out the smashed trunk and swapping panels from a parts car to fix up my wrecked 1996 Saturn SC1 which had a twin cam swap, disc rears, tuning, and urethane everything, only for half the piston rings to shatter the first time I revved it after sitting a while waiting to be fixed up. I still regret giving up on that car (but did steal all my goodies back and put some on the 01, like the rear discs). There will be no regret when you get it running. Take your time and do it right. I also thought this was a Fiero project when I first came in. I've always wanted to do one of those.
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Apr 14, 2021 19:07
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how much bad luck with finding a complete 2zz are you willing to tolerate before you do a teardown and rebuild? i imagine rings should be easy to find, bearings, cams and gaskets not so much
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Apr 14, 2021 19:41
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The 2zz's aluminum block has some fancy coating on the cylinders. from what I have gathered, it is sprayed on onto the investment mold before being filled with molten aluminum. ITs only a few thousands thick. This makes it so that machining the cylinders are bad unless you sleeve it. It also makes it a fools errand for the time being.
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Apr 14, 2021 20:40
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no lube so what posted:The 2zz's aluminum block has some fancy coating on the cylinders. from what I have gathered, it is sprayed on onto the investment mold before being filled with molten aluminum. ITs only a few thousands thick. This makes it so that machining the cylinders are bad unless you sleeve it. It also makes it a fools errand for the time being. are the bores the problem? i would think that the top end and maybe the crank/rod bearings would poo poo the bed first from low oil pressure before the rings got shitcanned. whats the compression like?
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Apr 15, 2021 02:27
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OMGVBFLOL posted:are the bores the problem? i would think that the top end and maybe the crank/rod bearings would poo poo the bed first from low oil pressure before the rings got shitcanned. whats the compression like? I don't know and haven't done a leak down/compression on the vibe engine. I suspect you are correct. The two parts that broke from low oil were a bearing and vvt gear. the third common break on light starvation is the oil pump gear. The rings aren't usually an issue. I drove maybe ~1/2-1 mile downhill with no throttle to get be able to pull off when I noticed the light. My reasoning is that I wanted as small of a time delay as possible. I have an arbitrary date that is important to me that I was hoping to cruise around on that day. I also know I am not very skilled and don't have much experience. So, I decided reswap pretty close to when I broke the first 2zz with the goal of a quicker swap. Long term, I am going to keep the vibe 2zz, tear it apart. maybe making something stupid if I have the resources. A gasket seal kit is ~350. The JDM was 1200. so, for $850 I can hopefully get a functioning car and then have a core to rebuild. That logic kinda went out the window when interacting with the world. the saga has been a trial in humility
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Apr 15, 2021 15:11
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no lube so what posted:the saga has been a trial in humility Great attitude, that one event would have made a lot of people rage quit the whole project.
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Apr 15, 2021 18:04
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no lube so what posted:My reasoning is that I wanted as small of a time delay as possible. I have an arbitrary date that is important to me that I was hoping to cruise around on that day. I also know I am not very skilled and don't have much experience. Sendin good vibes man, sorry if it sounded like I was grilling you. This looks like a cool as hell project and i'll be  ing it
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Apr 15, 2021 18:58
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It’s all good, i’ve been feeling nothing but positive energy Mood: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TyH8t34GoRk     The latest 2zz engine went back together with a new vvt gear, accessories mounted, filters cleaned, flywheel & clutch transferred (where the gently caress did I leave the clutch alignment tool?), tranny back on, wiring harness clipped, crammed all of it up the caboose, wheels on, on the ground, and fluids filled. At the end of the day after a few long days in a row, it was time to fire her up. [very angry noises] My stomach sank. Time to walk away for the night. The next day my buddy came back over and we got to it. We both figured the awful noise was the starter not retracting. We fired her up again to rough idle. Rough idle but an idle. Started throwing codes indicating misfires in cylinder 1 & 2. We can live with that for now. In all, a little relieved that the vvt gear replacement seems to have been successful. We then moved on to trouble shooting the codes. We swapped coil overs and spark plugs around. Same cylinders threw the same codes. Then we pulled the injectors, swapped them around and the codes changed. A definable problem?!! We swapped a set from another one of the 2zz. Misfire codes on 2 different cylinders. Wait, doesn’t that mean I have 4 good injectors!? https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/538796764 [For note, those last revs were ~5k.] Yay!! It’s starting to sound like a running vehicle again! But the idle is still kinda high, and wobbles between 1200-1500. We were also getting misfires warnings on cyl 1. We took some temps coming off the headers. Cyl 2-4 were constant. ~380F at idle, ~480 at 2.5k. Cyl 1? 290F at idle and -360F at 2.5k. We’re thinking it might be running rich on cyl 1. (By we, I mean my buddy because that’s way beyond my standing knowledge.) On the initial 2zz, I got the injectors cleaned the day before it’s first fire up by a dr. Injectors dude. The first video in the OP was the very first time that the engine got turned over. Sigh. Those injectors have since sat in a dusty garage. The second set of injectors came out of the jdm that sat for who knows how long. Mood: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UGeQvHzNsnY
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Apr 19, 2021 19:05
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Good progress, but I really just wanted to say that I love that car with the hardtop.
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Apr 19, 2021 20:25
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That first link should be https://vimeo.com/538796764 It sounds like cylinder 1 is the one that's consistently misfiring? What do fuel trims look like? I know the 1ZZ is notorious for intake manifold gasket leaks, I assume the 2ZZ probably is too. It's dead loving easy to replace the I/M gasket on the 1ZZ, I think it was 5 bolts for the manifold, plus 3 or 4 bolts to remove the throttle body (didn't want to deal with removing the coolant hoses going to it). Maybe it's the same on the 2ZZ? The 1ZZ was throwing lean and misfire codes when it got bad enough, but it won't throw a lean/rich code until it's been driven a bit. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 14:44
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The hard top is what convinced me to get the shitbox. When I got the car, the going rate for the hard top meant I got a running car for $2k. Without the hard top the car looks fine. I think it finishes the character to the point I took out the soft top. It had some holes, and I never used it. My buddy was joking that by making it into a barchetta I gave the engines Italian. STR, yeah we were getting misfires on 1. I don't know the fuel trims. Sounds like that would be a good thing to figure out sooner than later. The I/M was switched between the 2zz. the vibe/matrix throttle body has a slight bend while the celica has no bend. I don't know about the corolla. The gasket is metal. We cleaned and lightly sanded before swapping.all the surfaces looked, felt flat. That's a good idea to check. Swithing the I/M while the motor was out of the car was simple. Packaging in the 2 makes it a little bigger pita with a firewall that might not let the I/m get off the studs. it's tight.
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Apr 20, 2021 19:27
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that shot from the back with no bodywork screams deathkart; has anyone made one from an MR2 yet?
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Apr 20, 2021 19:34
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Did the IM have a rubber or metal gasket? When you mentioned gasket, I wasn't sure if you're talking about the throttle body or intake manifold, but it sounds like IM. If that's metal, gently caress it, give each bolt/nut a quarter to half a turn to snug it up, then do the propane test? Then the swap-o-injector-rama game. The 1ZZ uses basically a rubber o-ring gasket on the IM, no idea on the throttle body. It dries out and cracks over the years, particularly on desert cars (like my Matrix). Any OBD2 adapter and Torque can watch short and long term fuel trims (Torque normally can't count misfires though); my fuel trims were WILDLY off at idle on short term once it started throwing a lean code (same time it started with a P0300). It never narrowed down to a particular cylinder, but it was enough to cause some pretty nasty cold idle issues + the random misfire code + "system lean" code, and it was starting to cause some stumbling under light throttle at that point. The cold idle issues (high + rough idle) had been around for a couple of years, but only when it was ~50F or less outside - ran fine once it warmed up... usually. It took ~30 minutes to swap the IM gasket, but that was in the typical FWD application. 
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 20:05
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The 2zz IM has a metal gasket. I might be having similar issues. I was just out there messing around and keep getting p300, p301, p302.The idle has naturally been sitting ~2k. after 15 minutes of idle I revved it a few times. the idle would steady at 1.5k and creep back up to 2k. I pick up some freshly clean injectors tomorrow.The exhaust temps were still a little low on 1. For whatever reason I couldn't figure out how to identify trim on the ODB I've got, oriely special. I need to read the manual. Note on the car. gently caress I love induction noises. With the short intake and big filter sitting around a foot behind my head and no more soft top it sounds great in the drivers seat. I am looking forward to hearing it under load in lift. edit: death kart I have seen some mk 1 death karts but not any spyders. They made so few that its not a commercial thing. My death kart fantasy is a lotus 59 or lotus 23 with a 2zz, ITB and close gears. no lube so what fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Apr 21, 2021 |
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Apr 21, 2021 02:13
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Think we figured out the rough idle. after dinking around for a while, my buddy unplugged the IACV and the revs stayed the same. So we took off IACV and sure enough it was stuck. After a bunch of solvent, the thing un seized and started to work. So, I've got a constant sub 1k idle! Took the car for a maiden voyage and got gas. When I got back, I was getting a p171. lean bank 1 I am pretty sure my cheapo OBDII doesn't have fuel trim. I can't find it anywhere. anyway, looks like the next three likely culprits are; dirty MAF, downstream of MAF vacuum leak or a bad o2 sensor. I put some propane around all of the vacuum line and couldn't hear any differences. when my friend tried, neither could he. Perculiar thing to me is that the IACV came off the first vibe engine that ran so nice, same with the MAF. crazy what a little bit of sitting can do. my new contender for 2zz death trap, pretty close to death kart in spirit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLCyKvhjec4
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Apr 22, 2021 03:15
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no lube so what posted:my new contender for 2zz death trap, pretty close to death kart in spirit Here from the Craigslist thread and  that thing is quick
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May 7, 2021 16:52
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Man that looks and sounds like a riot. Great work!
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May 7, 2021 17:00
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I would love to put a 2ZZ in my Yaris (aka Vitz like in that video) , I can't find the TRD/Blitz supercharger anywhere, but I wonder how hard a 2ZZ swap would be.
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May 7, 2021 18:49
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Voltage posted:I would love to put a 2ZZ in my Yaris (aka Vitz like in that video) , I can't find the TRD/Blitz supercharger anywhere, but I wonder how hard a 2ZZ swap would be. tight squeeze, and requires some frame cutting and welding. Heres a time lapse of some Canucks doing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeXIh_IrOfg&t=316s this guy claims he did his without cutting the frame, just changing the mounting points. https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/t/my-2zz-ge-vitz-sleeper/249136 There is a tuner group out of purto rico who are getting NA 2zz echos into the 12s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVjpjZxpqWMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRkxTpJXzEI https://www.facebook.com/2zzgeswap/ Depending how finishing up the MR2 goes, and with the two extra 2zz engine, and c56 transmission, I am very tempted to find a echo. The echo and MR2 spyder where equally missed opportunities for Toyota to show off the 2zz.
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May 7, 2021 20:42
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Thread owns. Love mister twos.
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May 17, 2021 12:16
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My wife's got an 03 2zz matrix and I gotta say, you're doin the lord's work. God that engine sings!
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May 17, 2021 13:27
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