(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
|
mycomancy posted:I've not read either (but I will now!), so is there a concise reason for why the subjection of women was the opening shot? Like, is it simply that masculine-skewed humans tend to be stronger on average than feminine-skewed humans? Forgive the weird terminology, trying to be inclusive. my recollection is that as “humanity” separated from “nature,” society developed in complex ways to ensure healthy gene pools. so, eliminating incest, norms for how tribes intermingled, etc. lineage wasn’t well defined, no one really knew who fathered who, and so it wasn’t really possible to accumulate private property and pass it down along family lines. property was held communally (or matrilineally). patriarchy was the innovation in social relations needed to really jumpstart private accumulation and the class societies we know and love today.
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2024 20:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 22:23 |
|
|
DeimosRising posted:how did complex/class society emerge is basically the core question of the entire field of anthropological archaeology yeah david graeber’s books are basically all about how vast, varied, complex, and differentiated early human societies were. historically there have been all kinds of social arrangements. it’s not as simple as “and then agriculture happened.” but where graeber falls short is that the end of the day it doesn’t really matter exactly how class society took root, it’s what we have to deal with, and only marxism has an answer for what is to be done
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2024 20:23
|
|
|
There's this faint idea for me that, if one agrees that labor has psychosocial effects (similar to the idea of language as constructor force of thought), once that human labor was able to produce a certain level of additional value, basically set in motion "ok value is good so more is better" and changing along as social survival became increasingly distant from basic, animal survival So by the peculiar quirk of unknowable ancient customs and traditions, preservation of value obtained meant greater possibility of expansion of value in the future, and this quirk seems to be the point where it explodes into many differing social modes and relations around the globe. Neither the matriarchal household nor communalism were necessarily "condemned" against patriarchalism (the Inca, for example, are a very interesting case of communalist characteristics being carried into more advanced modes of production, which also carried gender equality), but some particularly militant patriarchal tribes around some corners like the Fertile Crescent would emerge and, well, basically would culminate into being Rome and welp e: this is 100% pure uncut speculative imaginings of my brain just to be clear
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2024 21:23
|
|
|
dead gay comedy forums posted:There's this faint idea for me that, if one agrees that labor has psychosocial effects (similar to the idea of language as constructor force of thought), once that human labor was able to produce a certain level of additional value, basically set in motion "ok value is good so more is better" and changing along as social survival became increasingly distant from basic, animal survival What you're describing is evolution as a broad process, just in this case the selection of a capitalistic society after years of society adapting to physical conditions. I don't think it's speculation but rather informed hypothesizing, and yes there's a difference.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2024 21:35
|
|
|
stumblebum posted:im under the sourceless impression that it was forager-cultivator vs pillager-rancher, but im not sure if im just projecting the agrarian-pastoralist conflict back in time inappropriately. i'm curious as to where the impression came from if sourceless, partly because I've had a similar thought — predating any engagement with Marxism — to the effect that the story of Cain and Abel seems to represent the conflict between nomadic pastoralism and settled agrarianism. there's a tendency in today's world to think of farming as a "rural" enterprise, but at that point in history it arguably would have been the more "urban" end, and Cain's general aspect is that of city building. and supposedly one of the readings of the name "cain" itself, to say nothing of descendent Tubal-Cain, is a smith (but then again, if we're looking at Genesis & all its adam/eve blame-casting, i think that'd end up being another point for those arguing that the sexual division of labor constituted an even older theater of struggle)
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2024 21:45
|
|
|
Aeolius posted:to the effect that the story of Cain and Abel seems to represent the conflict between nomadic pastoralism and settled agrarianism did you play VtM: bloodlines
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2024 22:40
|
|
|
Tsitsikovas posted:The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State is such a pro read. I've always enjoyed this little bit of sarcasm in it I took so long to read it because every page got me to rant about how cool it was to a friend. I recommend it to everyone, it really surprised me. Again, thank you to people online for having takes so awful that it gets people to recommend good books.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2024 23:40
|
|
|
Engels is definitely a great writer on his own right and is a great contrasting/complementary read to Marx
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2024 23:53
|
|
|
Is there a more contemporary Marxist analysis/book along the lines of Engel's work but with much more modern data? I was chatting to a feminist once and she dismissed it saying a lot of the data in Engel's book was inaccurate
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2024 00:44
|
|
|
Bald Stalin posted:Is there a more contemporary Marxist analysis/book along the lines of Engel's work but with much more modern data? I was chatting to a feminist once and she dismissed it saying a lot of the data in Engel's book was inaccurate My first exposure to it was from Verso books. The edition I grabbed was published in 2021, and the two intro essays really helped contextualize a LOT of what was said. Pardon the appeal to authority as well, but those intros were written by two contemporary (our time) queer studies professors. They did focus way more on Engels' analysis of the family unit and monogamy, but was was fascinating was that they were quite approving of the whole work by and large, saying that Morgan (the anthropologist Engels was largely citing) was pretty legit. Again, within context. At the very least, to directly answer your question, Id recommend grabbing that edition of libgen so you can check the forward and intro essay for further sources, they name drop a lot of books and authors, could be helpful. The book itself has some great footnotes that clarify Engel's various dated references, especially in the first chapter when he breaks down the stages of human development. The editors go out of their way to say "yeah when hes talking about barbaric, today's equivalent would be this era" and so on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2024 04:35
|
|
|
dead gay comedy forums posted:did you play VtM: bloodlines of course, i just left out the bit where cain founded vampirism and now passes his time as an LA cabbie for brevity
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2024 05:50
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Aldanmarki/status/1770569033219297662 https://twitter.com/Aldanmarki/status/1770573133604434349 tons of soviet factory logos in the linked pdf
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 19:44
|
|
|
Danann posted:https://twitter.com/Aldanmarki/status/1770569033219297662
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 19:47
|
|
|
ngl the marching hedgehog is 10/10
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 19:56
|
|
|
Danann posted:https://twitter.com/Aldanmarki/status/1770569033219297662 bookmarked thx
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 20:04
|
|
|
dead gay comedy forums posted:ngl the marching hedgehog is 10/10 Yup. Primo av opportunity for all you moneybags out there
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2024 20:39
|
|
|
dead gay comedy forums posted:ngl the marching hedgehog is 10/10
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2024 16:33
|
|
|
what's that hedgehog the emblem for anyway? mechanised forestry?
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2024 16:45
|
|
|
I think he's just a little guy with a shovel
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2024 16:50
|
|
|
double nine posted:what's that hedgehog the emblem for anyway? mechanised forestry? Comrade Hedgehog needs no justification
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2024 16:55
|
|
|
фермер the hedgehog
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2024 17:03
|
|
|
double nine posted:what's that hedgehog the emblem for anyway? mechanised forestry? Anyone with better Russian than mine, please correct, but: Arzamas Light Machinery Fittings Works machinery, presses, power saws, and hardware
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2024 17:39
|
|
|
It makes sense, his back looks like a stylised saw blade
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2024 18:54
|
|
|
Danann posted:https://twitter.com/Aldanmarki/status/1770573133604434349 redwall army faction
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 23:59
|
|
|
BillsPhoenix posted:Anyhow, this has run its course, those comments aren't trolls. Sraffa has a whole book about it, Keen has a shorter paper, I obviously can't prove it out in a couple posts. Tell me more about Douglas Adams
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 00:21
|
|
|
drat I'd buy those stickers
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 00:36
|
|
|
I did want to reread Sraffa at some point. Don't think I got much out of it all those years ago.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 01:22
|
|
|
crossposting from asia threaddead gay comedy forums posted:btw, our main Marxist over there has been posting some interesting poo poo over theoretician chat
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 06:44
|
|
|
finished chapter 2 which felt very short and breezy, not a lot of concepts I struggled with thanks to all the discussions on value itt. Just starting chap 3 and I paged through to see how long it was and got intimidated. What are some of the major concepts that will be discussed in chapter 3 that are particularly important and that I should focus energy into grasping fully?
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 22:35
|
|
|
was recommended this by gramsci regarding the dynamics of party politics. was a pretty quick read and touches on how political movements get directed and touches on some reasons socialist movements lose steam, at least in the case of interest Italy https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/1921/09/parties-masses.htm
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2024 01:21
|
|
|
 reposting this from the ur thread to show to the thread what the greatest giants of economy and war understanders can come up with
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2024 02:25
|
|
|
Danann posted:
If learning a bit of Marxism makes people understand that they don't eat GDP, I consider it a huge win
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2024 18:02
|
|
|
hubris.height posted:
Just to be clear, you mean chapter 3 of part 1? If so, the major point of interest is that money enters the universe of commodities, which allows to talk about their circulation. If you have seen C-M-C around in Marxist discussion, it's in reference to that. What is important to realize here is how money is the consequence (and not the premise) of labor-value relations first, in which allows all other commodities to have their labor value in a common social measure through it, which is price. Marx then establishes why gold becomes money and describes why it characterizes a special relation, then it talks about how money works in the circulation of commodities.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2024 18:12
|
|
|
Trash Ops posted:redwall army faction lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2024 04:46
|
|
|
dead gay comedy forums posted:Just to be clear, you mean chapter 3 of part 1? If so, the major point of interest is that money enters the universe of commodities, which allows to talk about their circulation. If you have seen C-M-C around in Marxist discussion, it's in reference to that. yes, and thank you
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2024 18:18
|
|
|
oh yeah that was a real aha and 🤯 section for me
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2024 18:21
|
|
|
hubris.height posted:yes, and thank you Np! Whenever feeling intimidated, again, do not hesitate to ask around  Mandel Brotset posted:oh yeah that was a real aha and 🤯 section for me I think the very methodical form of unpacking that Marx did definitely makes for a tougher study, but man it works. Like, almost everybody take many of the things around them as given and derive assumptions about them from culture, like that money must have always existed or so. Then suddenly, for any reason, somebody is learning about that discovers that "lol definitely not" and then goes "wait wtf is money". With some luck, they are working through something written by the 19th century German dude that, depending on where they come from, is mostly taken as an equivalent to an evil prophet, or the work of somebody else that uses that German dude as reference. That person then realizes how much they do not know about their social reality in detail, and finally it clicks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2024 19:14
|
|
|
michael heinrich characterizes marxism as the first monetary theory of the economy, which is to say that marx shows why money necessarily comes about as a result of capitalism, whereas all liberal economists are still pushing pre-monetary theories in which money is just there for convenience's sake and in principle could be replaced completely by barter. capital volume 2 goes really in depth about how and why money is a non-optional part of capitalism and inevitably grows in quantity due to its relation to production
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2024 20:47
|
|
|
hubris.height posted:this thread is probably one of the best threads I've read over the past 2 decades and it's a crime it isn't rated 5, for whatever that's worth. lots of work being done itt
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2024 22:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 22:23 |
|
|
Is there a version of Capital rewritten into modern English style prose for dummies like me who have to re-read every sentence five times to parse what he’s saying?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2024 22:25
|
|