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Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice

indigi posted:

um ever heard of the Working Families Party???

That party is not for workers, only their families. It's right there in the name.

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Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice

euphronius posted:

These are some of the reasons the Washington DC baseball team being called the “Nationals” really bothers me still.

Especially since they are the Expos.

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice
Mr. Lenin

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice

MSDOS KAPITAL posted:

I sure am glad I live in a society where the ruling class doesn't impose its will on society, thereby logicking itself completely out of existence.

You should be, otherwise your society would have been affected by the crisis of 1931-3 and 1979-80!

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

La! La! La! Laaaa!



College Slice

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Pretty safe to assume any man born before 1970 was a sex pest.

*Checks birth certificate*

drat. Missed not being a sex pest by 4 months.

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice

AnimeIsTrash posted:

Everything people said before me is very good. Chris Hedges also said it far more eloquently than I could.

https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/1430201459442921474

Guess I better start watching Tucker Carlson more to catch this Greenwald fellow he likes so much.

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice
Has anyone else read / have opinions on "A Reader's Guide to Marx's Capital" by Joseph Choonara?

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice

MLSM posted:

I ordered this months ago I just haven’t gotten around to reading it yet

I read it and really liked it. He specifically points out places where he thinks Harvey got it wrong, but having not read Harvey, I can't say if these points are valid or not. The fact that it's not as long as Capital itself seems to be at least one point in its favor.

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice

mila kunis posted:

my primary objection other than the difficulty of reading it is that its been one hundred and fifty fuckin years. a lot of things have happened in that time, marxism isn't a dogma where you have to read the original sacred text and defend marx's carbuncled butthole at all costs, there should absolutely be a standard modern (post ~1985 at the very least cutoff) text updated with all the things people have learned since marx's time that you can refer people to.

That sounds like a lot of work though.

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice

Raskolnikov38 posted:

how often are you people getting into arguments about stalin that aren't also on this forum?

Every time I leave the house.


Well, I imagine I would if I ever left the house.

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice

The Voice of Labor posted:

bring back capital chat!

how can the salient feature of a token of value be that it itself is not a commodity, (ie., one does not exactly sell dollars, one sells things for dollars) square with the brute fact that the primary exchange value for the world is the petrodollar. something that is simultaneously a commodity and the exchange value of that commodity. answer that, marx smarties!

Also, at the time, currencies were backed by a commodity, so they were effectively coupons for some weight of precious metals in most cases. That said, people do buy and sell currency today when they are no longer backed by anything. If this means they are commodities in and of themselves I don't know.

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice

Communist Thoughts posted:

This part of the labour value theory I don't really get at the moment, because plenty of things that take less labour are sold for more than things that took more or the same labour to produce.
Or are we talking some idealised value thats seperate from their actual value at sale?

One way to look at is this: If you, me, and three other random people from the thread were put in an operating room with all the right equipment and a "how to brain surgery" book, how long would it take us to perform a successful brain surgery on a patient? How long would it take five people trained over many, many years in the roles to perform the operation? So in essence, the labor of those trained people for the task they are trained in is worth (time us idiots would take / trained labor time) times our labor for that job. The "socially necessary" labor is the time the trained people take to do it: you and I don't have jobs as brain surgeons because we would take far longer than that: too long to do the job for the procedure to be profitable.

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

La! La! La! Laaaa!



College Slice

Epic High Five posted:

I wish I was a little bit taller

I wish you were a little taller as well.

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice
[Marxism] - too dreamy to be dangerous

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice

Ranter posted:

Anyone got a really succinct article or copy pasta on why trotskyists are off base?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Usually a runner will take a lead while the pitcher is in their stance, so this could be one reason.

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

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College Slice
Three letter agency infiltrators needed to work from home during the pandemic, so....

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

La! La! La! Laaaa!



College Slice

Rodney The Yam II posted:

So in that sense, some machines could be conceptualized as value-reservoirs? Value-as-labour is concentrated and sedimented in "mechanical" forms, and can be transferred to other material things through productive use?

The machines embody the labor that was put into them like all commodities: their use-value is transferring small bits of that labor / value mechanically into a new commodity.

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Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

La! La! La! Laaaa!



College Slice

BillsPhoenix posted:

Chapter 8 builds up one half of what will become a contradiction.

People here aren't really following Marx so I'll say it as simply as I can, you can decry "lol stfu" and move on.


Machine is analogous with technology in a broad sense. Marx is careful to make sure we account for the labor that goes into creating the machine is accounted for when that machine is put to use to make a commodity.

The contradiction is when he says this transfer of value is not proportional. If it's not proportional, there must be another source of value loss that isn't accounted for.

That's the contradiction. He sets up a perfect argument about the transformation problem. He then combines that with machinery and depreciation. But then he breaks his own definition and claims it's not proportional.

This is why western economists reject a lot of good theories beyond LTV. Falling profits, trpf, the inevitable communism all rely on some loss of value. Which Marx had proven couldn't happen.

A few solutions from the western academic world that support Marxs claims next.

If you can't explain to me the prisoner's dilemma, I can't possibly tell you why you're wrong.

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