|
To be fair, given the time period we're talking about most of the moral and ideological justifications were also fig leaves for self-serving motivations.
|
#
¿
Aug 3, 2021 20:41
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 15, 2024 15:55 |
|
|
Takanago posted:https://twitter.com/PDXVictoria/status/1430923239950323722 So, apparently all my years of playing Paradox games have led to this - the ultimate Paradox game. I can safely say that I will definitely throw money at this game the moment it comes out. Victoria 2 was before my time, but now I see why the game had its dedicated following. Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Aug 27, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Aug 27, 2021 21:21
|
|
|
I like to think it represents that if you try to build a huge gold stockpile then people in your government will spend that stockpile on stupid garbage so there's diminishing returns on how much cash you can pile up before it gets lost as waste.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 27, 2021 22:18
|
|
|
Grizzwold posted:I was already going to spend it on stupid garbage though Well then don't leave it laying around so your inbred family and corrupt bureaucrats can steal it or appropriate it to spend on their country houses and mistresses. edit: honestly surprised we didn't see "monarch lifestyle" as part of expenses listed in the state budget tab.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 28, 2021 00:50
|
|
|
This was basically the system back in early EU4 where if you war decced someone the AI deemed too small it would make their biggest ally the warleader who then got to call in all of their allies. And then if that ally was too small their biggest ally would be the warleader and call in all of their allies. It had some issues and made war decs past a certain date put out insane results sometimes.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 28, 2021 23:05
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:If you're responding to my suggestion, I would counter that a Great War shouldn't see the war leader change much, since it presupposes great powers on both sides. There's not much escalation to be had, in terms of participants, if you've already drawn say 5/7 great powers into your war when it starts. The fact that the game is effectively capped, with the late game being a truly global affair, should prevent these sorts of ballooning of wars. Like, maybe the US/China gets dragged into the war, but that's not blowing a war up into involving an order of magnitude larger forces than before as could happen in EU4. I was responding more to The Chesire Cat's 'local conflict that spirals out of control' because we've seen that before and players hated it. Yes, if you let players know ahead of time that this is going to be a Great War then that's different, but back in old EU4 you had to check allies' allies' allies before taking on small powers just to make sure no one up the chain would trigger a world war unexpectedly.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 29, 2021 20:00
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:in hindsight i kind of miss the ramping foreverwars because it's terribly easy to simply not pick fights you can't win in modern eu4 EU4 definitely has issues, but I'm not sure sieging down thirty different countries to fix my border gore is going to be an improvement. Anyway, as for V3, the diplomatic stuff sounds cool, I like the whole "war is a continuation of diplomacy" angle, and I look forward to seeing it in action.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 29, 2021 21:57
|
|
|
This sounds like another improvement that I've been wanting to see in pdox games. I hate the micromanaging of units and managing fronts or states is much more what I am interested in. I also look forward to seeing how this impacts asymmetrical wars, rebellions, and frontier conflicts which the current systems are terrible at modeling.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 4, 2021 19:42
|
|
|
The generals stuff all sounds excellent and the fronts are interesting, but I'm getting a definite wait-and-see vibe from it. All in all, still better than having to manually command armies so even if it's not ideal at release I'll buy this in a heartbeat.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 11, 2021 22:02
|
|
|
If anything I'd be more concerned that wars aren't costly enough because that's the case with just about every other Paradox game where you can maintain full standing armies at all times and stay out of debt. The only thing I found a little odd in the dev diary is that you need to tech up to get the better conscription - which seems odd, but I assume France and some other countries starts with this? It's too early to make assumptions though and I look forward to seeing the war/diplo system in action because everything sounds good so far.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 25, 2021 23:56
|
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:There's a difference between the financial cost of the war and the economic cost; I like Victoria being the game where not producing enough bullets affects your armies and I agree in general armies should be more expensive than they are; but that's a different consideration from the economic/political costs where presumably, Paradox wants players to go to war with each other and to make use of their mechanics, especially since they went and completely revamped war mechanics for Vicky 3, it'd be a shame if people shy away from them even from the perception that doing so is "bad" for your nation. As long as other countries have oil, coal, and bananas I assume the economic cost of war will be worth it for those reasons alone. At some point you need to have a war focused economy just so you can stay alive unless you can pull off some sort of Switzerland situation.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 26, 2021 01:53
|
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:
I feel like the international goods market should solve this problem because there are few nations that actually have access to all the resources they will need for industrialization and multiple players relying on imports will drive up prices and slow each other down. Plus, all the other downsides to relying on markets that are vulnerable to interference. At some point it probably just becomes cheaper to steal the land and extract what you want using the internal market instead. Obviously, we'll have to wait a while to figure this one out, but Wiz and the team seem pretty good at their job. One other point, the ai is notoriously bad at managing economies and at some point I might decide to just invade anyway to optimize the territory for resource extraction as quickly as possible. I also want to echo Lady Radia's point that the EU4 mp testing was less than ideal. Although I think it did make the EU4 team realize that naval combat width was too small for late game navies.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 26, 2021 06:04
|
|
|
I can remember another example of the dev clash balancing. When the devastation mechanic was put into the game it was tuned to build up much more quickly, but the dev clash that preceded the mechanic was an India thunderdome and it rapidly turned into twenty Swedes all trying to repeat the Thirty Years War on each other. Northern India was completely poo poo housed by the time the wars ended because, obviously, no one is going to surrender in a dev clash. Afterwards, India was so trashed the devs decided that devastation wasn't fun when the territory is ruined for decades just because twenty different players went full scorched earth on each other. Then the mechanic was implemented in such a way that it's essentially toothless no matter how much you allow your country to be ruined by the enemy.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 27, 2021 04:59
|
|
|
ThatBasqueGuy posted:nice rear end
|
|
#
¿
Nov 30, 2021 20:15
|
|
|
So, how long was the whole playthrough? Like 15 years? That moved pretty fast, but like Wiz said he was mortgaging his future for short-term gain and got a bug that gave him a boost.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2022 13:33
|
|
|
I assumed there was a lot of time spent on the AAR itself. That's pretty impressive, I'm not used to pdx games moving that quickly. Can't wait for more and thanks for the quick response Wiz!
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2022 14:56
|
|
|
Cease to Hope posted:i think adding scenery-chewing saturday morning cartoon villains was a good fit for xcom 2 but i don't think it would be good for victoria 3, the game this thread is about I don't know, considering the time period it actually makes way more sense in Vicky3. Receiving death threats from Socialist Revolutionaries that are trying to overthrow my enlightened monarchy or having Lenin call me up to tell me that my defeat is inevitable feels pretty on point. Or like, literally anything with Baron Von Ungern-Sternberg.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2022 21:51
|
|
|
Game looks amazing, definitely going to preorder this soon. October seems like it's both too far away and unbelievably close.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2022 19:05
|
|
|
The game's economy focus over war is such a boon for me. I'm playing an eu4 campaign for the first time in about nine months and right now and my wars against the Ottomans are just ... awful, really awful. I don't want to have to deal with this and would rather just tend my gardens in Paris.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2022 19:48
|
|
|
My greatest hope for combat in v3 is that the system is simple enough that we don't have these types of situations because there just isn't enough there for the player to really have to work with, while also allowing technology to change how wars are fought over the time period in a way that allows for wars longer than a month. And also that we don't have things like Belgium doing weird poo poo like teleporting their soldiers into an invasion of St. Petersburg on day one of the war instead of defending, say, Belgium. The best case scenario is that you give a general an army, give them a directive, and then the general tries their best to fulfill that directive based on character traits and the composition of their army.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2022 23:03
|
|
|
I'd rather an obligation was literally you have to do it because long-term diplomatic penalties on the people you plan to murder and conquer aren't an actual cost. edit: it has to be something more than an external penalty, like it should absolutely piss off interest groups in your country and screw with your economy at the very least.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 5, 2022 16:32
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:Some internal penalty for abandoning a long-term ally would make sense, yes. That said, I think it'd be an issue if abandoning a major ally was something the player felt comfortable just doing because they're pretty sure they don't really need them. Getting frozen out diplomatically should present a serious threat even to the UK, where instead of having an ally at negotiations or during a crisis, it is instead potentially faced with multiple opposing factions all on its own. Allies in any strategic game are ultimately expendable. There's no such thing as friends, just national interests and as we saw in the dev game last week obligations let you call in heavy weights into wars that they may not be interested in as a way to bootstrap your way to relevance. Then you just discard the alliance when the country you owe the obligation to is your next target or in a position where they cannot affect you. It's basically free resources at the start of the game for the player only. I mean, I know I'm basing this next example off of eu4 a bit, but whenever I played in India my strategy was always to just leap frog my way up a chain of alliances with whoever I ally being "the person I am going to kill in my 3rd war from now".
|
|
#
¿
Sep 6, 2022 01:03
|
|
|
Cease to Hope posted:It may be a good idea to not be notorious and unpopular in a game where any country can gently caress with any action you take just because they feel like it, though. Fair point.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 6, 2022 04:20
|
|
|
New stream looked great. Japan might be my first playthrough based on this just because it's a nice little island (or four or five or six) that I can play around and learn all the little bits of the game. Also, agreed with the other posters about the fun ways that V3 is different from other games and I'm looking forward to spending hours micromanaging my economy to best exploit my peasants.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2022 11:52
|
|
|
Lady Radia posted:i am going to play as the two sicilies on launch and build a massive empire based on wineries and sugar This post reminded me of something and I know you can't answer, but maybe someone can. So, is cocaine a luxury good at some point? Do I have to unlock a bunch of techs first? I just want to make real honest Coca-Cola, not the awful carbonated sugar water slop, but the real thing. And then someday I'll find a way to form a trade company and make the Coca-Cola company a force to reckon with.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2022 23:50
|
|
|
Fray posted:
Yeah, this is basically my position as well. I'd rather micromanage an economy than a war and the war stuff can be added in later because it's not the main point of the game.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 28, 2022 22:09
|
|
|
How impactful are newer production methods on war? Because if I'm turning out twice as many artillery shells as the opponent due to my technological advantage I should probably be burying them in whatever war we're fighting. We saw Britain mop the floor with Qing in the Japan game (I think it was Japan) so there's definitely something to be said for military sophistication giving you more war power, but that was against Qing who aren't a great example of military efficiency. edit: War is the one place where market mechanics work very differently than consumer goods, at least I'm assuming that's the case. Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Oct 12, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Oct 12, 2022 23:25
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:I think how much you can translate a production advantage into a military one will depend on whether your military is actually large enough to make use of all those supplies. I'm assuming the way it works is like in Vicky 2 where the military has a certain amount of goods upkeep required to remain at full strength, and then consumes additional goods when reinforcing after losses in battle, all of which is purchased from the market using the nation's funds. If you're already producing enough to keep your military fully supplied, the advantage of producing more would be making that upkeep cheaper due to the increased supply, but wouldn't actually make your army fight any better (although a cheaper army means you can re-invest the savings into making a larger army, barring non-financial factors that might prevent it like a manpower shortage). Military production following the law of supply and demand seems weird to me, but I'm not really informed about this period of time so okay sure.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 13, 2022 01:29
|
|
|
Dayton Sports Bar posted:Well there’s a much more straightforward way production translates to combat power - higher tech military “production methods” just give your army flat stat increases while consuming more of the same goods. So switching to higher tier guns for, say, +10 attack/defense means your military needs to consume more units of small arms per day. That's makes way more sense to me. The combat system's nuts and bolts are a bit opaque to me, but it's a Paradox game so I'm not going to understand poo poo until I actually play it in about two weeks.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 13, 2022 11:37
|
|
|
I'm thinking of trying Japan for my first game because I'm new-ish to the Victoria series and it sounds like a good opportunity to tend my little garden and cultivate my society in peace. Then go insane and form the Greater Japan Co=Prosperity Sphere in a tidal wave of blood and death.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 15, 2022 13:58
|
|
|
THE BAR posted:Watching OPB's Bavaria stream.. can you really build any kind of mine anywhere? Or do you actually need coal deposits in the province, before you can put mines there? Looks like he's just slamming them wherever he wants, which is, uh, not quite what I'd hope for. Also it's Germany so it's not like there's a shortage of coal. Although I just did a 10 minute google search and it seems that Bavaria is only rich in coal in the Southern mountain region, but there was significant investment in the time period of V3.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 24, 2022 23:26
|
|
|
KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Rubber, oil, and to a lesser extent coal, iron, sulphur, tea and silk are all already pretty potent drivers of that. I don't think you need opium to be as rare as it is to incentivise imperialism. Rubber and oil not having an alternative is probably good design to simulate the time period because those were critical late game war resources that you should need to exploit. The issue is that the AI isn't responding to market demand the way it should and we can't use our great power influence to develop puppet states or client states or protectorates or whatever. Honestly, just one change whether it's better AI or the ability to develop for the AI would fix the issue. The opium thing is a problem, agreed, but that's one thing among many that need addressing with regards to consumption number fixes. The game is pretty good but some of the production stuff does need some fine tuning here and there. It's weird that my navy is the best in the world power with only 20 shipyards that employ about 100k people, but my glassware and paper industries are individually about six or seven times that and I'm still hitting shortages in my country. Even if you factor in the steel and engines that the shipyards use it's still insignificant compared to the civilian domestic goods numbers. I'm not sure if that's actually by design though.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 8, 2022 18:16
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:the weirdest law event is the one where the monarch basically says "get it done, +20%", because there is, as far as i know, no opposing event where the monarch says "hey gently caress your dumb law, -20%" The Meiji Emperor did this to me. gently caress that guy. Although I guess it was when I was trying to end his existence and replace him with a Parliament so maybe I'm being too harsh. No, gently caress that guy.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 8, 2022 20:02
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:Funny thing is when I did the Meiji restoration he rolled as a republican and actively supported ending the monarchy (he was even neutral on becoming a council republic). I can just imagine him sitting there thinking "Finally, after centuries of domination by the Shogunate, control of Japan has returned to the rightful hands of the emperor. I hate it. Please replace me" Mine was an innovative industrialist. I could have used him to pass laissez-faire economy instantly and rode the tech boom, but I'm an idiot and decided to go towards liberal democracy with a side of Korean conquest instead of full Japan Co-Prosperity Sphere like I should have done. I blame my late bloom into colonialism because my first shogun - who lived through the first half of the game - was a pacifist who opposed colonialism in all forms.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 8, 2022 21:39
|
|
|
You know, honestly, just replacing opium with canned food as the requirement for the better morale recovery makes a lot of sense and at least makes it something every country can access once they hit the tech, edit: morale recovery is still insanely powerful though, it definitely needs a bit of a cutting back, but whatever there's a lot of issues with war that will take time to even out.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 8, 2022 23:16
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:How important is fixing a shortage of taxation capacity? Playing as the Sikh Empire, I start off with like -80% taxes collected in my capitol state. But every government building I construct doesn't seem to cover its expenses, even with filing cabinets and changing the laws that decrease my taxation capacity. Should I maybe focus on building up my industry first so I actually have something to tax? The real issue is - I'm assuming - your tax laws because if you're at poll taxes then you're not going to make poo poo no matter how much tax capacity you have or how built up your industry is. You want to switch to a better tax law first and then build up tax capacity. Pops will care less that way too because their standard of living won't drop like a brick the moment the tax law passes and will instead go down gradually as you begin to squeeze them for wealth. That being said, yes, build up industry, but that's less about immediate cash (you won't be able to tax them either until you change your tax laws) and more about transferring power to anyone who isn't a landlord. Say what you will about the capitalist robber barons, but they are not literally the worst people in the world (2nd or 3rd worst maybe) and they love laissez-faire economic policy which is insanely strong for building your country into a powerhouse. Also, industrialists are actually in favor of proportional tax laws - just not the later two - so they're really good for getting better tax laws passed early. edit: you can also make money early on by using authority to pass consumption taxes and just tax something that won't send your country spiraling into anarchy. Taxes services makes a poo poo ton of cash without causing too many problems. Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Nov 9, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Nov 9, 2022 23:24
|
|
|
Basically, never build government administration buildings to get your tax revenue up. But that's fine because the thing you actually want from them is bureaucracy and institutions. If you have a state that's under tax capacity and you were going to build a government building maybe put it there I guess. edit: in my Japan game government buildings did give some improvement, but Japan and East Asia in general are in an unusual situation. Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Nov 10, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Nov 10, 2022 03:59
|
|
|
I shouldn't say "never matters" but it's not a good way to bolster your income. It is good for creating lots of Intelligentsia who are either supportive or neutral to just about every good law in the game and for creating a government sponsored middle class who aren't those little bougie pricks. Just don't think you'll get rich doing it.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 10, 2022 04:28
|
|
|
Just decided to call my Sweden game. My economy is totally in shambles, I have both mass job openings and mass unemployment. I blame Groogy for this. I passed worker protections, up from regulatory watchdogs, and my economy instantly tore itself apart because factories can't pay the wages that workers demand and wages were already high so it's basically impossible to fix this. My migration is already limited to Europeans, but the whole thing is a mess so off to the next game because there's no way to fix this before my insane deficit destroys everything. I think there's also some weird issues with turmoil in states too because throughout basically the entire game my core states were wracked with 30-50% turmoil despite being overall high SoL and the institution that makes fewer radicals from SoL changes were maxed out. There was also some really weird intracountry migration where my pops were moving around Scandinavia so whenever I built a new building it would usually stay empty even though nearby states had pops that could migrate there. Europe is a total shithole and there were constant revolutions and turmoil explosions all over there too. I have a feeling that some number somewhere is hosed and it's the reason why we're seeing such instability all over Europe. Probably related to unfulfilled political movements and radicalism not fading as fast as it should.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 12, 2022 21:37
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 15, 2024 15:55 |
|
|
I kind of want to try an Ottoman achievement run for my next game because it's nice to start with oil and opium so that means I only need to snag Borneo and maybe the Niger Delta and I'm set for all the important strategic resources - but I have been absolutely hitting this game way too hard in the last week so I think this can wait until Thanksgiving time off. edit: Australia would be pretty cool too now that I think about it .... arrgh I gotta put this on the shelf or I will lose my mind.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 13, 2022 00:41
|
|