|
Don’t listen to this crazy man who is crazy. Unlike ds1/2, you are basically required to take like 40+ vigor just to avoid basic enemies one hitting you past the capital.
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 09:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 1, 2024 09:35 |
|
|
Vermain posted:radahn and mohg were almost certainly intended to have full legacy dungeons that got chopped for time. my intuition is that bestial sanctum would've been the link down to mohgwyn dynasty proper, since the underground map puts the dynasty at somewhere underneath dragonbarrow, and the sanctum itself is weirdly huge for what amounts to a single room and a scuffed jumping puzzle for two items. it helps explain both dragonbarrow being barren and the odd difficulty spike, since you would've been intended to go there much later in the game as part of a natural north/south duality of progression I dunno, the Dynasty stuff is only like slightly west of Radahn's arena, iirc. Which doesn't necessarily prove anything but I don't sense a strong link between the two. Mind you, I still think Bestial Sanctum being a lost legacy dungeon makes sense (hell, for all we know it could've been how we got to Farum Azula instead of the inexplicable teleport from the Forge). I think another sign of how rushed the area is is the divine tower, which is downright bizarre in how its designed and doesn't really match to anything else in the game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 10:04
|
|
|
Though actually I think there's a fair question of whether Mohg was ever due for a legacy dungeon beyond what he got. You've got the whole situation with his model starting as a generic enemy/boss, hence sewer Mohg. And as per the video I posted their plans for the underground seemed different, involving potentially chasing falling Astels underground, one going under Radahn's arena and brushing up against the location for the Dynasty.
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Apr 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 10:09
|
|
|
White Light posted:These levels are NG+ or further, holy moly like, getting vigor up should usually be one of the first things you do, the idea that someone level 340 should still be neglecting it is nuts. scary ghost dog posted:disturbing behavior but im still going to give you advice. choose a stat and leave it at base. theres no build that uses every stat and if you try to make one youre just going to make a confusing build that barely works
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 10:13
|
|
|
Rookersh posted:What's a good vigor to cap at if I want to keep the game a challenge? If you're still hanging around in Limgrave & southern Caelid and are comfortable with where your HP is at, then I wouldn't worry too much about levelling Vig yet. But I would suggest making a mental note of having at least 40 Vig after Leyndell. Just so you won't get one-shot by everything past that point. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Apr 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 10:23
|
|
|
Rookersh posted:What's a good vigor to cap at if I want to keep the game a challenge? You really don't need to get it to 60. The amount of vigor you want is based on where you're at in the game. If you're in the lower-level area of Caelid, 30 vigor is plenty. If you go to the higher leveled area of Caelid, you might get one-shot by some enemies. I like to aim for at least 40 by the endgame, but I also tend to play more ranged-oriented builds.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 10:24
|
|
|
Rookersh posted:What's a good vigor to cap at if I want to keep the game a challenge? Rushing 40 definitely take the teeth out of the first third of the game. Once you get one great rune you can take vig whenever you feel like you're dying to any medium guy hitting you once or twice. I'd cap at 30 until Radahn, 40 until leaving the capital and maybe keep it there if I think I'm hot poo poo but 60 is actually a reasonable standard especially for the end game gauntlet and the optional late game stuff. You can hit it anytime once you've got at least your first two great runes, the game will find ways to kill you from the halfway point on even if you have Vig 99 and go tanky.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 10:27
|
|
|
LazyMaybe posted:just actively terrible advice wrt vigor, the only people who should have less than like 50-60 vigor at endgame are people who are experienced enough with the game that they aren't asking build questions in the first place. I thought all those responses were satire. If you're above level ~120 you should absolutely have 60 vigor by then. Being able to survive after a couple hits is way more important than a minor adjustment to your deeps. You might think you're captain badass and say "don't need vigor if u neva get hit!!!!!!!!!!!!" but chances are you're not some speedrunner who can play the game blindfolded and control it with a dance pad while not taking hits, you are going to take damage.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 10:31
|
|
|
If you can survive with 40 vigor then kudos, you're great at the game. 60 vigor assumes you'll get hit by the worst vig checks including a few unintentional ones like those dragon breathes that linger and chip you five times in a second. So many bosses in the late game have an absolute catastrophic grapple, or they hit you hard and you get up and want to estus but they have a laser focused estus punish. Do you die to the 1-2 or do they need a third hit? Also if you pvp with low vig then you are really living and dying by "don't get hit, lol." Mostly dying.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 10:35
|
|
|
you should just add points into vigor when you feel like you need to on your first playthrough
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 11:08
|
|
|
The hp returns from vigor aren't flat either. The 13 levels from 27-40 vigor nearly double your hp.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 11:44
|
|
|
It's a pvp thing. "LEVEL VIGOR" became a meme around over a year ago or so when the arena was introduced. A bunch of mages who managed to make it through the game with brain-power alone entered PVP, had little to no vigor and got one shot over and over. The videos from that first week were pure comedy. Vigor 60 is almost mandatory for PvP and even then it sometimes feels like it's not enough - for the rest? Idk, git gud or some such. Haligtree knights prolly gonna one-shot you, so learn those parry windows.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 11:56
|
|
|
60 Vig and your best Dragoncrest talisman does give you some pretty good sustain, even going into Haligtree. I think you guys are writing off the utility a two-shot turning into a three-shot a little, if you're even a medium-skill player that's still some handy breathing room in the post Leyndell content
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 12:04
|
|
|
I'm sure somebody could correct me with the actual math but I keep picturing a 30 vig wonder getting grabbed once in the last boss gauntlet and saying aloud to themselves "that didn't happen" as they blush and wait for the You Died to fade. There's stuff you really have to have a flat amount of HP to survive. And again if you really are that good at dodging I fear and respect you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 12:19
|
|
|
The HP gains from Vigor 15-40 can easily carry you all the way through Leyndell, turning dangerous content far more manageable. But the HP gains from 40-60 are no slouch either. There's a reason why people whine about damage being so highly tuned in the mountaintops and Farum Azula, their HP is too low. Having that 60 vigor and some decent absorption armor makes it far more manageable. And PVP wise, here is why getting to 60 vigor is so important. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrO3rj0kBHQ There are risky hard-to-hit moves that deal massive amounts of burst damage. These kinds of attacks are far easier to land if your opponent still has high health, they're cocky and think they can trade into you. Land them on someone who has 60 vigor, and they will switch their strategy around, becoming defensive, and far more difficult to hit. That is where your strategy switches from high variance attacks to safer chasedown attacks to land the last hit. In invasions, that's especially important to land them before they can heal. The thing is, in Elden Ring, it's far easier to land those high variance burst hits because of the preponderance of weapon ashes. And it's also far easier to roll catch thanks to so many weapons having forward thrusting movesets, and the shorter medium roll distances. You need that 60 vigor to take that initial burst and give you breathing room to heal. At just 40 vigor, that 1450 HP gets burst down in an instant, there are so many attacks and attack combos that easily deal that damage. Getting to at least 1800 HP or so is so incredibly important for survival in either invasions or arenas.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 13:39
|
|
|
Rookersh posted:What's a good vigor to cap at if I want to keep the game a challenge? Unless you are purposefully trying to sabotage yourself there is zero reason to ever stop before 40 Vigor; it actually has increasing returns up until that point. Anywhere from 50-60 as a final goal is fine for NG.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 14:26
|
|
|
of course its technically possible to beat the game without getting hit at all. so its probably not too difficult to beat the game without leveling vigor at all. i havent done it however
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 15:06
|
|
|
a shame they didn't fix or at least rebalance how much damage things at endgame do because that was one of my biggest complaints when the game came out
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 15:10
|
|
|
Can someone post the scaling graph for vigor.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 15:12
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 15:17
|
|
|
well it's certainly not as dire as the exp graph for pso2 was lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 15:19
|
|
|
and as a max upgraded flask heals 810, the returns beyond 60 are harder to take advantage of as well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 15:23
|
|
|
Rookersh posted:I was thinking 25-30ish for Vigor. I'm seeing a lot of HAVE TO GET IT TO 60 online which seems overkill? 30 is a solid choice, roll with 25 if you want a bit of a small handicap
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 15:53
|
|
|
I finished the game with 40 wearing a soreseal, which I think maths out to functionally being at or a little above 30 where incoming damage is resolved. it's doable, a little hairy, some late bosses will absolutely one-shot you but those attacks are all avoidable. e: I did not remain so low when completing my second two playthroughs, I'll say.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 16:00
|
|
|
The most fun I had riding the devil's edge was - Altered Gravekeeper's Cloak to attract aggro - Dual whips (left whip fire whetblade right one normal for whatev flame incants I wanna cast) + third whip with Raptor ash of war to swap out in the moment - Claw talisman/Fire scorpion charm/Blue dancer charm/Old lord's talisman OR dealers choice - Flame-shrouding cracked tear + whatever tear helps juice up the weapon damage scaling best or thorny cracked tear - Bloodhounds step/Raptor of the mist Ashes of War You will die QUICK from almost every heavy hitter attack, but you feel so alive when you are cracking a thousand+ damage using basic whip strikes with healthbar goons who just. can't. touch you cause of the trollish nature of the BH step, it straight up melts bosses with those hit-and-run tactics or if you wanna punish chain finishers with Raptor AoW. White Light fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 16:29
|
|
|
No Dignity posted:An upgraded medium shield has always worked for me Foul tarnished using a shield thats why you will remain maidenless.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 16:34
|
|
|
Uh huh
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 16:36
|
|
|
Small and medium shields are great! You can put golden parry or carian retaliation on all or most of them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 16:37
|
|
|
Regarding vigor chat, mid level players doing co-op with their level 200 wizard friends who never leveled vigor are some of my favorite people to invade. You’re running around desperately trying not to get stunlocked into 2 shot by them, then you finally get an opening and they just melt. It’s always the funniest thing to me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 17:08
|
|
|
LazyMaybe posted:just actively terrible advice wrt vigor, the only people who should have less than like 50-60 vigor at endgame are people who are experienced enough with the game that they aren't asking build questions in the first place. Fine, bump it up to 40, he's on NG+ remember? He's got more than enough cheesy spam mechanics to counter whatever the hell the game wants to throw at him WITH the gift of hindsight from his first run, there's no surprises here. Take it to the 60s if you want to during your first run to help counter the mountain of unknowable bullshit, by the second coming it's way too excessive to have that much, skills be damned. Having 300+ levels with stacked stats and vigor at 50-60 trivializes 90%+ of this game even with the boosted enemy buff damage.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 18:27
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:Unless you are purposefully trying to sabotage yourself there is zero reason to ever stop before 40 Vigor; it actually has increasing returns up until that point. Anywhere from 50-60 as a final goal is fine for NG. Yeah I'm purposefully trying to sabotage myself. My biggest enjoyment for DS1-3 was SL1 runs, I want to be two shot by end game bosses. I just need enough leeway to take a hit and be able to get between bosses without annoyance.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 18:35
|
|
|
Listerine posted:What are some good weapons to look at for pure Faith builds? This will be my last character that I park after Mohg in the lead up to the DLC. I've been using cipher pata and the winged scythe weapon I found in tombsward ruins, but would like to keep a lookout for other options as I plod on. The Bandit's Curved Sword is unusually strong when elementally infused, and only requires 11 st + 13 dex. You probably want to have a strike weapon in your back pocket to use against enemies like the Valiant Gargoyles, who heavily resist elemental (40% for everything but magic, which is 20%), slash, and thrust damage.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 18:51
|
|
|
Rookersh posted:Yeah I'm purposefully trying to sabotage myself. There is a respec option that you can unlock in the area after Limgrave. So even you if feel you need more HP, or feel like you've put too much in Vig, you can go back and change things.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 19:34
|
|
|
don't listen to anyone. test your might
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 19:53
|
|
|
Goatson posted:It's a pvp thing. "LEVEL VIGOR" became a meme around over a year ago or so when the arena was introduced. What? No. It's a Co-Op thing from people getting sick of going through being summoned only for the host to die in one shot to the boss.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 19:53
|
|
|
40 VIG being the standard in PVE was a thing within a month of release (likely piggybacking off of basically identical advice from DS3), and 60 only became the current standard once people crunched the numbers enough
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 19:58
|
|
|
War Wizard posted:What? No. It's a Co-Op thing from people getting sick of going through being summoned only for the host to die in one shot to the boss. Lmao pre-nerf Radahn was brutal. I spent more time at the beach outside the arena than ever in that fight. Your typical host died to arrows in around 10 secs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:28
|
|
|
Ulio posted:Foul tarnished using a shield thats why you will remain maidenless. shields rule
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:48
|
|
|
Ulio posted:Foul tarnished using a shield thats why you will remain maidenless. Guard countering owns though. CLINK
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 22:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 1, 2024 09:35 |
|
|
Playing with a greatshield is good fun because it's surprising the number of enemies that are very stressful normally who you can just bounce out of their combos with a greatshield. Then of course activate shield crash and bully them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 22:29
|
|
