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Athanatos posted:What would a good mod for CSPAM be and do? well frankly, the good mods and IKs that we have had, had their buttons taken away during lowtax-era slapfights for defying lowtax & co. and there's been apparently no awareness under the new regime that those people would have been better picks than, say, flavius, when you were looking for a new person to mod cspam. flavius was a guy who i would never have imagined doing what he did, but also i think people could have predicted that he was not necessarily the right person for the job of moderator in comparison to like, wampalord or nichael or many of our other mods/IKs that only had their buttons for a short time for dubious reasons. on the other hand, i don't think it's a good idea to have any poster be a mod in here for a really extended period of time. during the first couple of years this subforum had really wild turnover in mods and it was frankly better that way. no one became an institution and you had fresh eyes on the subforum's moderation priorities pretty frequently. sometimes a mod or IK might suck, but they would be gone eventually. and there were more thread-specific folks with buttons; raskolnikov was a really good succ zone IK because he understood the culture of that specific thread very very well, for example. i think megathreads are fine and "non-political" threads are also fine - great, even. cspam itself is a community with a very specific vibe and i don't necessarily think that that vibe is entirely bound up with leftism or any other one shared characteristic; we just have our own thing. saying we have threads that are "off-topic" is like saying that gbs or fyad or byob have "off-topic" threads when the vibe of the community is the point of those subforums, not a specific topic. definitely we're a political subforum but we're also more than that Jazerus has issued a correction as of 02:27 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 02:21
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Ardennes posted:Granted, is the current chat thread a big deal beyond it has its own thread culture that a bit out of step with Cspam? (That said, it was perhaps time it was relabeled considered how far is strayed.) i don't understand this perception at all. trump/chat/whatever thread is literally just the central hub of cspam. it's the community center where people hang out and talk about whatever, and always has been going back to the earliest days of the subforum. in a lot of ways the cspam culture was born there! i think that maybe people who post negatively about it don't realize that most of the people in the subforum have participated there, it's not some other group of people with different values who just hang out in cspam. sort of a microcosm of the SA posters throughout the site who say bad things about cspam without realizing that many of their posting pals in games or whatever also post here.
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Jun 25, 2021 03:11
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Ardennes posted:Not to get too much into it, I posted in D&D for a really long time before Cspam existed, and honestly it it too has its ebbs and flows over the years. Right now, I think the divide is about as stark as the LF-era but at the same time I am a bit of a romantic about provoking discussion regardless of the forum. Also, it may be low-key my fault for trying to merge the D&D Trump thread and the 2018-era version of USPOL in the first place...which may have had a bit of a domino effect. lol gently caress larry up man. gently caress me up. gently caress em all up it's fine. obviously you might get some pushback if you ban or permaban for shaky reasons but that's a good thing right? mod sass is part of the culture here but nobody is actually going to oppose an obviously justified mod action in any way that matters. you won't have a target on your back unless you show a consistent pattern of grudge-probating, either against a person or a thread. not sure where the perception came from that cspammers are going to "come after you". it sounds really weird from where i'm sitting. like let me just lay it out flat here: there's a narrative that started around 2017 and has grown over time that cspammers are wild animals, uncontrollable and bestial and unable to reason about what might work in the moderation of their own subforum. it's bizarre and has its origins in obscure slapfights that absolutely should not be taken into account by the actual staff of this website, which is one of the biggest reasons it is nice to have this feedback thread. it shows that you're trying to avoid preconceptions. but you clearly still have them if you sort-of still believe these tales about cspam bogeymen
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Jun 25, 2021 03:42
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Ardennes posted:I post here, but I am less confident about the situation. It isn't that cspammers are wild beasts or something, but lets be honest the tension have been rising for a while. probably someone from cspam who gets that it's a game. y'know? it's a joke that references our shared cultural experience of having bad mods. we actually tend to like capricious 6ers for bizarre comedy reasons, as well as 6ers for people who are posting badly. moderation in cspam should be loose but tight like one of the formative cultural events for cspam was mass rebellion against boosted and his tedious rules for the trump thread, and we don't reserve ourselves from calling out bad moderation as a result of that and a lot of other subsequent events such as lowtax banning people from here on stream. but that doesn't mean that good moderation is actually unwelcome, or that a little bit of ribbing about "mod tyranny" actually constitutes a dislike of your actions.
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Jun 25, 2021 04:04
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cumshitter once just nuked a page. probated everybody on it. it ruled and everyone had a good time with his "IK tyranny". cspam is fundamentally here for the fun of it all and a sense of fun in the moderation was something we had a lot of in the beginning
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Jun 25, 2021 04:17
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Ardennes posted:I mean every joke has a little bit of the truth in it? I understand the history of what’s going on, the question of how the bridge that gap in trust that exists at the moment. well...stop distrusting us. there's nothing we can really do as a community to alter your perception of us unless trust is extended. from my perspective, the distrust is basically unearned and the result of all of the forums conflicts that arose in the chaos of lowtax melting down repeatedly and making stupid decisions. we said bad things about bad mods, admins, and owners that are by and large no longer mods, admins, or owners for reasons everyone knows. why is this scary? and no, sometimes a joke is just a joke. idk anything about angry PMs but i would feel confident in saying that anybody here would make fun of somebody raging over a 6er unless there was a really major event going on and the probe was bullshit; public "feedback" like somebody posting "mods are cops" after you dish out a probe is rarely ever serious, and if it is, you'll know quickly because people will start posting actual effortposts about the issue instead of just shitposts.
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Jun 25, 2021 04:26
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some plague rats posted:I was indifferent to him until they told me he's not actually gay, he's just been doing a minstrel show the entire time. hosed up. Ban him look man. cumshitter can't help the fact that he has a wife and an idiot straight son, doesn't mean he isn't gay
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Jun 25, 2021 06:47
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docbeard posted:I genuinely wish I knew how to combat this perception given that the response in this thread to this topic from probably the most reasonable fair-minded admin we've got (no offence Shine, I think you're probably super-reasonable and fair-minded too, I just don't know you as well) was i mean, i think the big difference is that we do not care about people "invading" us or otherwise doing dumb forums poo poo in our direction unless it actually materially affects us. we don't complain or fill the leper's colony with "brigadiers" because we like having people show up and post here in opposition to what most people in the subforum think, we like responding to those posts. the person making the post might not always appreciate our response, but sometimes they actually do! there are cspam success stories that never rose to anybody's attention because they amount to "person posts, gets rumbled, decides they like cspam and keeps posting here". so given that we rarely complain about anybody loving with cspam, the assumption is that it's all one-sided. and it is, in the sense that only one side really cares about the "rivalry", but it's not us tbh. i also want to address my least favorite phrase of all time wrt cspam - "posting is praxis". i see people bring this up in qcs threads all the time as though it is an Official Tenet of CSPAM and like...what the gently caress??? it's literally a joke not a statement of reality. nobody thinks their posts are advancing their political goals lol. even a few people in this thread have referenced it as though it's something real. it just seems like our obvious jokes are taken as serious statements by people outside of cspam weirdly often and it creates an impression of our vibe that is nothing like reality Pentecoastal Elites posted:Reading a lot of these replies has softened me on the chat threads because it's very obvious people like and care about them but at the same time its from posters I've never seen before, which kind of sucks because they'd be welcome everywhere else in cspam, too i don't mean to be mean here, but if you really can stride into the trump/chat thread and not recognize anyone who is posting in there, you are the one that is in an insular part of cspam. most of the people who post in there post in tons of other threads. i would have said that there isn't a thread on the subforum that doesn't have trump/chat thread posters in it, but apparently that's not the case? weird. nobody wants the topic of a chat thread to be carefully managed, or for "derails" to be encouraged to be taken elsewhere. we've tried that and people didn't like it. the wide-ranging conversation is a key part of the whole thing. Jazerus has issued a correction as of 17:20 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 17:07
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Gumball Gumption posted:The people who seem to really think posting is praxis tend to get run out when they burn everyone else out on their self-importance. yeah like taintrunner was a genuine posting is praxis guy, but he's also literally The Racsexist Bernie Bro from that one article so...
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Jun 25, 2021 17:48
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HookedOnChthonics posted:jazerus, i understand why you might have this perception, but i want to challenge it--as an extremely unscientific measure i just copied the top posters lists from the top 6-7 threads in cspam rn into a notepad doc and started doing ctrl-f with names from the trump thread leaderboard, and there's not a lot of overlap! oh yeah not gonna disagree that the top posters list probably doesn't have huge overlap. takes a lot of posts to be on the leaderboard in trump thread, who has time to do that and get on a leaderboard in another big thread? but at the same time the leaderboard doesn't tell the story. if you looked at the top posters for all of the trump threads over the last 6 years they would be wildly different as people fade in and out of wanting to post in that thread a lot. it doesn't really mean much about the overall composition of the thread because a lot of people post in it, and anybody is welcome. it's really not as crazy as it looks
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Jun 25, 2021 20:09
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twoday posted:[*]tried to communicate with the mods and admins in the admin forums and answer their questions about c-spam, and explain the dynamics of the forum whenever someone didn't "get" c-spam. The admins don't really "get" c-spam and I suppose they don't have to have someone who is familiar with their most problematic forums among their ranks (although maybe they should!!! [not it]) but if they don't have that, then they at least need someone who can explain the nuances of it to them when questions arise, and so I tried my best to do that. i feel like smythe definitely understands cspam tho. he would be a reasonable person to consult with about issues that you don't feel able to talk about in public, but want to talk to somebody who understands the context. he doesn't know every thread (nobody does) but he "gets it" and posts here. there are definitely other mods & such that post in here from a variety of other forums, too
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Jun 26, 2021 04:14
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euphronius posted:it definitely started IN PART to get some space for leftists to post away from liberals. as far as I remember it. it was a long time ago this was the organic result of half of d&d departing for election erection as soon as it appeared hoping for a different posting vibe. we all happened to be likeminded enough for something cool to materialize, and also boosted and his crew of maga weirdos were there too to provide a suitably absurd villain for our founding mythology i really don't think cspam is founded on "leftism" as such. that's just how things developed as a sort of natural result of which people ended up here. you just gotta look at everybody's favorite sewer duck, baloogan, to see that "opposition" posters can be successful particularly with a strong gimmick and sufficient alcohol. most of the people who show up intending to own the left end up just being humorless weirdos which is way less fun. anyway i think a poster earlier had it right when they said that absurdism is sort of the core theme here
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Jun 26, 2021 05:53
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Brute Squad posted:IK baloogan 
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Jun 26, 2021 06:04
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Agreed. Posters too immersed in a singular chat culture seem incapable of switching into a different "voice" appropriate to the thread they're posting in. That's why people get annoyed at "chat thread posters", and why (as mentioned earlier) they're really easy to sniff out when they attempt to defend their "posting pals" in QCS. They're also a big part of why "C-SPAM" got such a bad rep in QCS, because they're nearly the only ones that read as 100% C-SPAM, since most other C-SPAM posters can post normally and not register as a C-SPAM posters. A Buttery Pastry posted:You've spent more time posting weird chat thread poo poo in this thread than I did loving with numbers. this is weird imo. why would any posters need to switch to a different "voice" for another thread in cspam? why can't you and folks like you just roll with it when chat thread content is present in other threads?? this kind of poo poo just makes you come off as a scold who doesn't have any interest in understanding cspam's culture as a whole or the idea of just having fun on the forums. when i read these kind of posts, it honestly comes across like you would prefer this to be "d&d but you can say 'gently caress you'" instead of the weird and wonderful place that it actually is. our weird gimmick posters are part of the package and always have been, this subforum would not exist without them and would not have taken off in popularity if it wasn't funny at least part of the time Brain Candy posted:how about you stop gimick posting in an admin feedback thread? man you don't have to put on Serious Voice just because this is a feedback thread. the admins are not going to wilt and die at the first sign of a joke. even in qcs there are jokes like all the time Jazerus has issued a correction as of 13:59 on Jun 26, 2021 |
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Jun 26, 2021 13:57
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Larry Parrish posted:it's because you're obsessed with 'having fun' which is giggling with your friends like back in grade school and not actually telling a joke or being interesting op. just keep it to your thread so we don't have to read that poo poo. not sure what's hard to understand here. i barely even post in chat thread anymore tbh. but i think this line of argument is based on reasoning that is exactly backwards. see, i could say that the rest of the subforum originally had the culture of chat thread, with a few notable exceptions, and that these demands to "keep it to your thread" are in fact pushing a separate, much duller subforums culture that doesn't align with "cspam" as it was when it was born, or when it was at its best. and i kind of do think that! but the truth is that we can coexist even in the same threads with different "styles" or "cultures" without sniping at each other or being lovely. not sure what's hard to understand here
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Jun 26, 2021 14:11
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Brain Candy posted:this is the number one thing i don't like about chat thread posting, not because i hate that you are having fun with your friends but that there's zero desire to read the room yeah look i get it. i've had a bunch of moments in qcs & other "high pressure" forums crisis threads where i wished that people could turn it off for a second especially succ zoners. but like, dude, my post was not the result of "not reading the room". actually i read the room and didn't much like what i was seeing on the last few pages, and i don't like the line of argument that chat thread posters basically "invade" other threads. it reminds me of the d&d/cspam bullshit in a bad way and makes me question why some folks don't seem to be able to tolerate or even embrace the fact that we have a lot of different kinds of posters here and they can post however they want to in whatever thread they want to.
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Jun 26, 2021 14:20
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Larry Parrish posted:so what you're saying is actually you're the Silent Majority and we should all just bow down. what are you even talking about lol. this is the more serious subforum I post in. no larry. i'm saying that i feel like there are multiple kinds of posters here in cspam and historically we've all basically gotten along, and i don't understand why on earth you want a quarantine zone for unserious posts in a fundamentally absurd subforum. i'm sorry that this is the most serious subforum you post in and therefore you want it to be generally more serious or whatever, but that isn't likely to happen and you might think about just going with the flow for once Brain Candy posted:you've been posting paragraphs exactly because you don't feel that the style you are defending is always appropriate unlike some posters my mastery of "tmurpu"s is not enough to communicate all of my ideas alone, so i have to actually articulate my thoughts. sad! seriously tho of course i'm going to post some paragraphs sometimes. it's part of my posting style, i'm not "switching" just for this thread. there are certainly spots of serious discussion that would not benefit from gimmick posting in this subforum, but i feel like they are few and far between. what i am pushing back against is this narrative that the chat thread culture must be contained at all times because it is "divergent" and "weird" when, to me, the proliferation of a more serious style was the formation of a "divergent" culture in cspam. but, even though that's how i feel, i also feel that it's fine for you to post seriously; but when you start demanding that everyone else do so you are trying to prioritize your preferences instead of simply being chill and accepting that multiple posting styles can coexist here Jazerus has issued a correction as of 14:33 on Jun 26, 2021 |
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Jun 26, 2021 14:26
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Tiler Kiwi posted:if you wanna post in a way you know people will think sucks, and then they think you suck, id only ask you have the decency to not be hyperbolically defensive about it. this is the price one pays for living free of decorum. i'm questioning the underlying idea that most people think it sucks. i don't think that's, uh, true. personally i have no gimmick and just tend to follow the tone of any individual thread, but i respect people who are consistent even if i don't always think it's funny. i think it's not good for the subforum for people to label other posters based on their "home thread" or for them to want a homogeneous thread culture in any given thread. it's bad, op, it's the sort of thing we made cspam to avoid. i'm sorry if this comes off as hyperbole.
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Jun 26, 2021 15:07
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croup coughfield posted:its possible - ive also changed a lot over that time and im sure that plays into it. however, the chats threads and the trump thread in particular flooded this forum with people who not only had no actual political ideas or ideals, but aren't interested in developing any. its just aesthetics and spectator sport - noise - and its tiresome. that poo poo doesn't belong as a primary thread focus in a political forum. they can have the exact same conversations about their rgb funko pops or whatever the gently caress they talk about in the chat forum, where no one will mistakenly open the thread expecting a discussion of anti-capitalist politics croup coughfield posted:like why the gently caress is there a thread about casting spells in a politics forum personally i think you don't understand the trump thread or the subforum as a whole, if you think we have a bunch of threads that are "apolitical" or "non-leftist" my take on literally every change to the forums structure proposed so far is that it's just meddling for meddling's sake. nobody is being hurt by the way the forum has been organized for years now. these suggestions are just a good way to make people unhappy and create divisions in the community where none existed before. however to pick up on what a few other people have said, there are bans and permas still in place that were deeply lovely and the product of the previous administration flailing around as it died. i couldn't give you a full list of folks and i know some people like crazycloud have returned, but it might be worth asking around for candidate cases to review
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Jun 26, 2021 20:49
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ram dass in hell posted:mormonpartyboat was one of the finest posters not only of cspam but the whole site, he did nothing wrong and tried to help deescalation and clarification during all the bullshit that went down, and then self-permabanned out of frustration because of lowtax. I don't know if he'd even want to come back, but it's the top of my list for outstanding unjustified permaban candidates. He's smart and funny and gets it and does good photoshop work and cspam is poorer for his absence. absolutely. can't count how many pieces of classic cspamalia were the product of mpb and other posters lost at that time and they were good, well-liked members of the community Smythe posted:seems like a perfect opportunity to use the upcoming FOrums Court feature. You have my axe. hell yeah 
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Jun 26, 2021 20:58
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HookedOnChthonics posted:and yeah the only good argument for moving the trump thread would be to give every single one of its posters buttons without interfering with the rest of c-spam i just don't really know what to say. trump thread is certainly one of the highest-traffic threads, and it's a series of threads that has been around since the beginning. of course it has pretty deep roots in the community. i don't think that acknowledging its history and relative popularity is somehow diminishing other threads, or encouraging people not to check out the many other great threads in cspam. nor do i think that posting there often or occasionally should disqualify anybody from having buttons; if they don't post anywhere else, then yeah, that might be an issue. the same goes for the succ zone or any other popular megathread. i don't think it's a competition. many threads are worth reading and nobody is saying otherwise lol, the antagonism you perceive from these "individual posters" isn't actually there.
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Jun 26, 2021 21:33
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there's a place for everybody here. i think all of the threads are important to our community and it's very weird to me to want to ship some of them off to other forums, or shut them down. i mean a thread vacation somewhere else seems fun tho.
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Jun 27, 2021 02:25
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Elmnt80 posted:I do wonder if the people who feel this way venture into other forums with any regularity. For example, while it may not be discussed all that often inside the forum, AI is one of the few left leaning areas for automotive discussion available ANYWHERE, online or in real life. We recognize it is a rare thing to have that kind of space where anyone left of center is tolerated, much less the majority and have a vested interest in keeping it that way now that we have a home. In short, come post about wrenching on rusty shitboxes with us comrade, bonus points for EV swapping a volga. yeah, we do. the cspam threads are still fun because they're with a different community and, crucially, they're about a big topic all in one thread instead of a bunch of specialized threads. kinda hard to go from talking disco elysium to mass effect to donkey kong anywhere in games. but i would guess that most cspam gaming thread posters read threads in games, etc. as well.
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Jun 27, 2021 03:24
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:it's this, there's not really a reason to keep it here since it's gone so far afield and has its own clique that's seemingly contrary to the rest of the forum: it is the same as it ever was! it's the same people, about the same topics, with the same level of injokes and such. it's genuinely very strange to see people who i know have posted in cspam for a long time, like yourself, misunderstand this, or try to portray an antagonistic relationship between the chat thread and the wider subforum. it feels like an elaborate gaslighting.
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Jun 27, 2021 04:18
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Slanderer posted:go post in a different subforum about games then lol. if youre not gonna get out of the house at least get out of cspam you aren't being hurt. this was never a laser-focused political space, ever. ever! in the days before it was cspam, yeah, sort of. but the whole point of the series of events that led to this subforum's creation was to make a space for casual posting about absurd things. that's really it, politics is an extremely fruitful source of absurdity but it's not the only thing we talk about. this rewriting history poo poo to claim that anything that isn't the marxism thread needs to leave the subforum is incredibly tiresome. this is like inviting a bunch of people into your house and then having them say they want to evict you. i don't think it's actually intentional dude, but that's what it feels like when i see no indications of chat vs everyone else tension ever in any of the threads i post in beyond some very surface-level rivalry. i would think that if there were actual tension it would be a lot more obvious because none of us are really subtle people
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Jun 27, 2021 04:39
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Sharkopath posted:I think youre just kind of oblivious then, theres multiple subcultures in cspam that are actively hostile to eachother, including right on this page the slapfight between chat thread posters and greenwald posters manifesting itself. when did it stop being pretend grudges and start being real?? these thread rivalries are intended to be fundamentally unserious because we are actually a single community even if there is a lot of diversity in how we approach different threads. the greenwald posters said "please come to our thread" there wasn't a slapfight at all. is literally all of this about people, at some point fairly recently, no longer understanding that this subforum's conflicts are jokes? i'm not saying there haven't ever been genuine grievances but it's weird to see someone talk about all of this inter-thread politics with a straight face when most of these "rivalries" were originally cooked up for the fun of fake grudgeposting. it's weird to me because plenty of us were there at the beginning and can tell you that it was never intended to create genuine fault lines in the community. if any of you took these things seriously simply because it seemed the posters around you were taking it seriously, i apologize because they probably weren't, actually.
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Jun 27, 2021 04:57
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Schnorkles posted:please come and join the baseball thread we're friendly and would love you to be part of our c-spam sub culture where we mostly get angry about management and bonds not being in the hall. i think it is silly to mod somebody who has a "home thread" in the first place. i read succ zone, covid thread, trump thread, capitalism thread, all kinds of threads, and the weirdest thing to me is when a mod i know and like from their posts elsewhere comes charging in with a total lack of understanding of the thread they're trying to moderate even when it's a long-standing thread that they probably should understand. this has happened a lot in succ zone particularly. nobody with a very thread-specific vision for what cspam "is" should be ranked higher than IK.
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Jun 28, 2021 22:37
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DarkEuphoria posted:I’ve seen plenty of people, who’s names I recognize from their posting in the trump/chat thread, even if they don’t post there anymore, post helpful and on topic feedback in this thread. i also think that it's a sentiment that's misunderstood as being way more all-encompassing than it really is. toward the beginning of the thread i described chat thread as the "community center" and i think that is what it was for a long time. a place that many posters who didn't otherwise post in the same threads had in common. maybe that's changed, but i'm not really trying to portray the chat thread as the "king of threads". i was trying to make clear that it's an important part of cspam that should not be moved elsewhere, but it wasn't my intention to make it out as more important than succ zone, marxism thread, number thread, games thread, etc. although i think it came across that way.
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Jun 28, 2021 23:33
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unsourced quotes have always been way more fun than sourced ones, why would you want to change that?
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Jun 29, 2021 01:34
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