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For now I would add a note to the top of the OP that people should not go buy stuff right now -- TPM modules, new CPUs, any new hardware -- on the basis of the official "system requirements". If the Health Check app says your PC does not meet the requirements for Windows 11, don't panic. Chill and wait for clarity. • Your PC probably has TPM already, you just need to figure out the right BIOS settings to enable it. • The list of supported CPUs on Microsoft's site is stupidly small, older CPUs will definitely work. • There will probably be methods to install Win11 on "unsupported" systems. Example
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Jun 25, 2021 00:47
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Falcon2001 posted:Count me in the 'sad about no side taskbar' crew unfortunately, wait what the gently caress?! ok gently caress that, I've been side taskbar since 7 & widescreen monitors. literally a deal-breaker for me. looks like I'll be considering some other options or becoming one of the people using some program that hacks the OS into using old UI
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Jun 25, 2021 01:06
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Fats posted:On the plus side, this did make me realize my TPM wasn't enabled at all, along with secure boot, whatever the point of that is. pretty much zero on a home system secure boot is mostly good for preventing you from booting to a linux live usb or anything that's not Big Corporate approved barnold posted:one of us! one of us! one of us! hey I used to run litestep on my XP install, I've always been that guy the last 2 windows I've used have been good enough that I didn't need to
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Jun 25, 2021 03:03
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repiv posted:Any ideas why they might want TPM as standard now? I get using it for BitLocker, but otherwise...? The possibility that gives MS the most good faith is that they're using it to help secure the OS -- that they're doing the hypervisor thing where the core of the OS (and defender) move to a higher privilege level than any application can access. And that way when someone clicks yes on a UAC prompt from an email attachment, the malware can't kill defender as the first step to pwning the OS. But I'm not knowledgeable enough about that to know if TPM is needed or even helpful for implementing that? Stuff like Intel Management Engine and AMD Platform Security sounds like it would be, but those aren't the same as TPM itself. Just related features. barnold posted:I've enabled my AMD fTPM and it does show up in Windows as 2.0, but I still don't pass the PC Health check. I think it's because my system has the CSM compatibility on and isn't booting in UEFI mode. But if I toggle UEFI Only in my BIOS, my PC doesn't boot to Windows and only boots back into the BIOS. I'm guessing I hosed this up and installed Windows in non-UEFI mode back when I built this rig so the machine doesn't know where the UEFI partition is but I don't really know how to fix it. Any ideas? Instructions: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/81502-convert-windows-10-legacy-bios-uefi-without-data-loss.html (have backups of important data)
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Jun 25, 2021 15:24
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Cao Ni Ma posted:I honestly I think that whoever came up with the TPM decision just had their asses completely stuck in corporate world because the vast majority of consumer computers dont come with a tpm module while just about every computer bought for a corp has one. Orc Priest posted:So my motherboard which came out in the ancient age of 2018 is obsolete now I guess because it doesn't support TPM and doesn't have a module to install one. Built this PC last year lol. Guess I'll be one of those holdouts who is on the previous version of windows for the next decade. Modern CPUs have built-in TPM ability, it just needs to be enabled in BIOS. e: Falcon2001 posted:This whole hardware requirements thing is gonna be really interesting to see it finish hashing out. I wonder which MS PR person is gonna be shitcanned over the completely hosed up messaging over these requirements.
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Jun 26, 2021 03:03
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Inept posted:Yeah making this a requirement is going to make a bunch of people think they need to upgrade when they don't Serious Hardware / Software Crap > Windows 11: you already have TPM, you just don't know it
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Jun 26, 2021 03:38
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Don't forget secure boot while you're rooting around in there. Or don't, because secure boot is a PITA and windows 11 isn't coming out for months. Secure boot is IMO the requirement with the biggest chance of being rolled back to a 'recommended' or whatever, because it sucks for support (non-MS bootable USB sticks stop working) and it's a legit anti-trust issue (only MS has the keys).
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Jun 26, 2021 17:30
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Falcon2001 posted:https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/25/22550376/microsoft-windows-11-tpm-chips-requirement-security And then this: WattsvilleBlues posted:Listening to the Windows Weekly podcast it seems that Windows 11 won't be available to anyone but Insiders and OEMs until "early 2022". That's odd. You know what? I'm having major flashbacks to the Xbox One announcement. A million different articles all with different information, the story changing all the time, and the journalists getting different answers depending on which MS flack they talk to and which day they ask. It's uncanny how similar the immediate post-announce is going. So I'm not saying that Windows 11 is going to be an equal disaster to the Xboner. For that the PR confusion was, in retrospect, an obvious combo of internal division and nobody wanting to put their face on a product that any idiot could tell was going to be massively unpopular. I can't see how 11 could be that bad unless there are more shoes that haven't dropped. But none of the other potential explanations for why they don't have consistent answers about basic facts are good either. Yikes.
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Jun 27, 2021 01:05
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Grey Area posted:I think everyone needs to chill until the final OS is released. It looks like nobody knows what's going on so the best thing to do is nothing until we get more information. Yeah, this. There's even the question of what "supported" means -- does it mean that the OS will refuse to install on the machine, or just that Microsoft won't "support" you? Oh noes, how will we live without MS Answers amazing support of replying "run sfc /scannow and dism /online /RestoreHealth" to every single thread regardless of the symptoms?!?!!1! Grey Area posted:If you were looking to upgrade your CPU/mobo anyway it's clear that any current* hardware will work, so you don't need to take Windows 11 into account. Even that I'd hold off on, since between supply disruption and other factors it's a really lovely time to get a new PC. Well, desktops anyways. Using Win10 until 2022 when hopefully things will be way better isn't a terrible loss.
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Jun 27, 2021 20:49
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DerekSmartymans posted:Where in general do you find or enable the TPM (1.2 or 2.0) in the BIOS? If sure I have it available to me simply from having all brand new parts and hardware, so I just (naively?) think it should be available unless there is a new trick through software to activate the function from the Win10 desktop. You for sure have it, it is generally not enabled out of the box on consumer mobos. If you have an intel system, the setting is normally called "PTT" or "Intel PTT" If you have an AMD system, it's called "fTPM" Where they put that setting varies wildly. Frequently it is buried in a sub-menu. You need to go to whoever made your motherboard or laptop and get the PDF manual, then find the relevant keyword. VVV edit: one of the few things that actually impressed me about Win10 Updates is when I got a new BIOS version for my laptop delivered and flashed with no more effort than a normal reboot Klyith fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Jun 29, 2021 |
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Jun 29, 2021 04:20
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TheRat posted:If by this you mean 'the requirements', then that sounds incredibly unlikely. Based on the recent blogpost they are forcing through a hard floor to guarantee certain security features on all machines running win 11 like virtualisation to isolate certain processes away from malware etc. And yet, it's possible to install the current builds of 11 on machines without that hard floor. The virtualization & hypervisor security stuff linked there, which is so effective against malware, does not depend on TPM or secure boot. It does depend on CPU & chipset support of hardware-assisted virtualization. But those features have been pervasively standard for over 5 years, and common in midrange & up platforms for 10. The CPUs on their support list do not have any new features in that respect. MS is showing you a pig in a bag here, don't be fooled just because they're making a lot of oink oink sounds about security.
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Jun 29, 2021 15:36
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Raygereio posted:Yeah, same. I'm not looking forward to whatever DRM poo poo they're planning. Absolutely. TPM was designed for security, but versus the threats of 10-15 years ago. When people were worried about hackers stealing your data and credit cards, locking it behind encryption and securing the keys with hardware protection was a good idea. It wouldn't have done much good in practice, but their heart was in the right place. It's useless against ransomware. Ransomware doesn't care that much about stealing data. Sure they'll exfiltrate sensitive data if they can but that's secondary to extracting ransoms by trashing a business. Even if the encryption is good enough to keep data hidden, they can always encrypt the whole dang drive again with a second layer of encryption to lock it. OTOH the trusted computing concept remains just as potentially dangerous to user rights and centralization / abuse of power by the holders of the master keys as it always was. The fact that all the hardware bits have sat there inert for a decade has changed nothing.
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Jun 29, 2021 17:01
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Internet Explorer posted:I'm curious to hear your thoughts on Microsoft's reasoning for requiring TPM, then. Do you think they are requiring it just to have the least amount of people upgrade to Windows 11? Are they just misguided, and you know better than them on security? Do you think they've struck a deal with PC manufacturers in an effort to sell more new PCs? I definitely do not know more or better. I am not a security professional. But I can understand how it works if they tell me. So until I see a clear and cogent explanation for how TPM etc is being used in the security process, other than obvious (and non-essential) parts like bitlocker or windows hello, I see no reason to take their word for granted. And in particular, when they give disingenuous explanations that have a real lying with statistics look to them -- like the "surface was 60% less hit by malware" -- that makes me suspicious. I don't think TPM and secureboot are useless. Particularly in a business context, against threats targeting business, and where the business is 100% ok with employees having locked-down, monitored machines that cannot run unauthorized software. If the announcement has been that Enterprise now required TPM 2.0 etc I would not have raised an eyebrow. I don't see how it offers malware protection for home users. Again, the fact 11 can be installed on PCs that break these requirements means that there is some disconnect between their version of "required" and my version of "required". Obviously the core of the OS is not depending on them to function. Why not? If TPM was somehow guarding the innermost hypervisor, shouldn't that break the OS? And lastly, their CPU support list plainly and obviously has zero rational explanation. Why does the AMD side stop at zen+ rather than zen 1? Nothing functional changed there, it was a process shrink and improvements to the clock boost system. If one section of their requirements is bullshit, why not another part? What incentives does MS have?
And now my questions back: * Were the EFF, the FSF (back when it was a respectable org), and others who raised objections to trusted computing all those years ago wrong? * MS is requiring a MS account to use 11 Home. Is that also valid? Is MS's embrace of dark patterns to push them also trustworthy? * Amazon had a story for why Ring was going to make homes and neighborhoods more secure. They even have statistics for crime prevention! Should we have taken them at their word? Do you know more than amazon about infosec? Klyith fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jun 29, 2021 |
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Jun 29, 2021 19:54
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Falcon2001 posted:The rest of this is a pretty good summary, but on this point I'd point to the recent store announcements being a pretty clear indication that they're moving in a much more open direction on this front. There's a difference between 'wanting a slice of the Apps pie' and 'wanting a walled garden'. They are a corporation that exists to make money. If they could turn windows into a walled garden and make $Apple^2 money, they would. By some readings of the law, they'd be obligated to. But they aren't stupid, and all their attempts at half-steps in this direction have failed. Believe it, if Windows 10 S had been a smash success -- rather than a thing most frequently paired with "how do I switch to regular windows?" -- they'd be taking another step with 11. The fact that they are moving in a more open direction with MS Store is only because it has failed twice. First as the UWP only app store, then as a any-app-but-we-get-30% store. A company doing something you like after repeated failures of something you hate hasn't learned a lesson, they've just capitulated to reality. There is nothing friendlier than a corporation that's had a recent string of failures to its customer base. Corporations aren't your friend. Recognize the alligator smile.
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Jun 29, 2021 21:23
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Falcon2001 posted:Hold up, I don't disagree with that premise at all, I'm just saying that they are moving away from it currently, not that they wouldn't potentially do it under different circumstances. Corporations are amoral profit generation machines, sure, but what I'm saying is that the current circumstances of this particular amoral profit generating engine doesn't support the idea that this is a current issue. Ah, ok, sorry. Well, lemme explain why that point was in my original post a bit more explicitly then, because I went from A to B with no inbetween to explain where that came from. Kinda assumed familiarity with DRM wars from 20 years ago. Some of my suspicion of 11's TPM & secureboot requirement, is that trusted platform stuff is a big potential stepping stone into a quasi-walled garden. And it has good options to use boiling the frog methods. Basically, what you do is let the existing applications continue as they are, and create a new class of "secure applications" that have been vetted & signed (by microsoft). Then you gradually shift the foundations to restrict the open apps more heavily, and make the secure apps the superior way to do things. And then you let the old APIs moulder and slowly deprecate them. That's how you get the walled windows: it's not like iOS because you can still run insecure / unsigned apps if you want... but nobody does because they suck to use and don't work well. A lot of this stuff was originally conceived of as ways to protect DRM from the user, not to protect the user from malware. The TPM was the place to put keys that the user couldn't get at. It's disabled by default in most BIOSes because it had so little user upside, and so many hostile intentions, that it was widely rejected. And this is not hypothetical. Linux distros right now rely on keys from Microsoft to sign their boot loaders in order to secure boot. Even the biggest Red Hats & Ubuntus don't get independent keys in the firmware. If secure boot is mandatory, MS is ultimately the arbiter of what OS can boot on your PC.
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Jun 29, 2021 22:35
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Falcon2001 posted:Not trying to be an argumentative jerk, just like, I think this has a bit more nuance than 'MSFT dumb, wants money.'  No need to apologize, you haven't been at all jerky. Uh, if I've come across like I'm mad at the pushback, not at all. Just posting with passion.Falcon2001 posted:Minor edit: I should start by just making it clear that I'm generally willing to trust tech companies when they say they want to do XYZ, because I work for a major tech company and I've seen the inside view of sometimes unpopular decisions.  -land. As I said to IE, I would be quickly mollified if there was a good explanation. Show me the money.However, as far as trusting big tech, the past four years have been a giant lesson that "unpopular decisions" can have real consequence in the real world. If google makes stadia and it's a clownshow, whatever. Some people get fired and money wasted, but in the large scale no harm. If facebook & twitter decides that fascism is good for engagement metrics, well... Personally, my trust in the big tech world is pretty eroded. Plus the people who work in it. If the best I can hope for is the coders do a 1-day walkout when their company does something horribly unethical, well, that's not much. To me that is people assuaging a guilty conscience more than anything. I don't think the tech world is full of bad people. I think it has a few bad people, and lots of smart people who are as good at self-deception as anyone else, but think they are too smart for it. Falcon2001 posted:I don't think that the modern Microsoft leadership is particularly aiming in that direction, for what it's worth (and not because of any particularly noble venture, but because they see profit in other areas), but I can see where you're coming from at least and agree that it would be a bad future to head toward; I have no interest in a Microsoft-controlled walled garden, but I am at least sympathetic to the idea that requiring hardware-level security devices are a good idea, although I too remember the EFF articles against TPM chips. I'm hoping there will be some good modern articles written in the coming weeks so that I can get a better idea of the upside/downsides. I don't seriously think they are either, right now. But the problem is the first steps on this path are pretty trivial. And another problem is that a new corporate aim is 1 CEO change away. It's more about power & capabilities than intent. Falcon2001 posted:Some nuance though: SecureBoot stuff Today I think that maybe the Linux Foundation would be nice to make into a second key holder equal with MS. Assuming they would accept that role, maybe they wouldn't want it? Back when they were making the spec, the FSF might have been the one pushing to have a key on behalf of the Open Source World, and hoo boy wouldn't that be fun. RMS holding not just the FSF organization hostage, but also a critically important piece of security data? He'd probably write it on paper & stuff it in his underwear, then ask young female security researchers if they wanted to "see his root certificate". 
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Jun 30, 2021 04:14
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Ok, a good article explaining the CPU requirements: It's about a single feature called mode based execution control that did not get added until Intel Core 7th and AMD Zen 2. It has big performance impact on the VM-based security feature. OTOH Zen 2 means the Ryzen 3000 series, while MS's cpu list includes the Zen+ 2000 series. So either the stuff on the internet about MBEC only being in Zen 2 and up is wrong, or someone at MS hosed up and didn't know that the Ryzen model-vs-generation numbering scheme is really silly. edit:   Oops! If MS's own, nearly-new Surfaces can't actually run win11 without heavy performance problems, it's gonna suck for them. Klyith fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jul 1, 2021 |
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Jul 1, 2021 22:19
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The firmware TPM situation makes me nervous. The Asus bios has a big warning that pops up when you enable it, telling you that if you ever disable it you will lose all the encryption keys and poo poo that it holds. So what happens if you have to do a factory reset on your bios? Or if you swap hardware? Are people gonna accidentally nuke their windows install when loading optimized defaults and forgetting about the TPM setting? 1. The security keys themselves are stored in a tiny chunk of non-volatile memory inside the CPU itself. So they are immune to normal bios clear, load settings, or whatnot. 2. If you are using TPM-based security like Bitlocker, you should always generate a backup key (bitlocker prompts you to do this when you turn it on) and save it somewhere. Especially in the passwordless MS future vision where all your stuff is secured via hardware that can fail, you need that. 3. TPM being required doesn't mean that it will also be mandatory to encrypt your whole install. Probably we will be able to continue to use win11 in the same way 10 -- a regular password login to sign in to your account and bitlocker secured via password if you want to encrypt a HD partition. At least, as long as you have Pro and can choose things like "no MS account". 3a. It could also be that MS will also be using TPM to encrypt the boot volume, a way that's transparent to the user so you don't even really know it's there. Between that and secure boot it could mean that the boot volume is always secure against malware*, giving the OS a sort of high ground advantage? Sounds cool but this is 100% hypothetical rear end-pulling, IDK enough to know if that is even possible. Anyways in that case the TPM key doesn't really matter -- if you lose it, you just need to do a repair and have the installer re-create the boot volume. *malware could erase the boot volume, but it couldn't infect it. 4. All that said, I have no idea what happens if your bios is reset to defaults while the pseudo-TPM has keys stored in it, and the default is that pseudo-TPM is turned off. Probably it's smart enough to recognize that circumstance, and stays turned on? I feel like they must have thought about that. Maybe that "off" is more like "off unless the TPM has existing data, in which case on".
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Jul 2, 2021 02:28
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doctorfrog posted:Background, if you care: I like to change the icons of pinned apps, and editing the shortcuts allows this. They still revert to the application's default icon when run, but when sitting idle, they can be any icon you like. I take my customization in Windows where I can get it. For Win10, there's an open-source program TileIconifier that can change the icon & background color of pinned tiles, or even replace it with a custom image. Changes are totally persistent. (Though apps that already have a tile defined tend to revert when they update themselves.) Still doesn't work with WinStore / UWP apps, but way better than twiddling the icons like you're doing.
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Jul 7, 2021 03:29
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I don't believe that ctrl+alt+del does anything special at the hardware level on modern PCs, where "modern" dates back to the late 90s and the switch from 16 IRQs to APIC. So a long time. (It's not technically wrong to say that ctrl+alt+del generates a hardware interrupt, but does every other key.) Ctrl+alt+del will sometimes work when other things (ctrl+alt+esc, other shortcuts) fail. The part of the OS that responds to it is very low-level and has max priority. But it doesn't always work. If the OS crashes hard enough, you can slam three finger salutes forever and get nothing. The OS isn't listening to the keyboard anymore, and ctrl+alt+del are just keys. Personally, ever since the switch to multi-core CPUs, I hardly ever find ctrl-alt-del to be that useful. Back in the 2000s, the fact that it took priority over everything was great because otherwise a runaway program could jam your system. But these days? I have yet to see a process that can be fixed by task manager generate enough load to prevent me from opening task manager in other ways.
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Jul 8, 2021 03:18
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Half tempted to preemptively update to 11 just because my 10 install seems incapable of updating anymore. I'm getting error code 0x8007000d every time, and none of the tips about fixing it I've seen online work, so maybe I should just jump straight into Windows 11. Is this a terrible idea? Try an in-place upgrade -- get the latest installer and say "upgrade this pc now". It works even if you're on the latest version and you're "upgrading" to the same thing you already have. This is by far the best way to fix w10 issues like those that don't get solved with the normal troubleshooting.
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Jul 31, 2021 14:28
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Internet Explorer posted:Do you have a WMR headset? If so, uninstall it and try again. lol I never get tired of "we're building New Tech XYZ directly into the core of windows!" coming back to bite MS in the rear end. Maybe one day they'll learn. That poo poo has worked for them exactly once, and it was extremely helpful that netscape was tripping over their own dick and making navigator into a hideous bloated groupware abomination.
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Jul 31, 2021 16:13
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fawning deference posted:I am not an Insider, so I have to wait to get a stable build until official release, yeah? You can become an insider just by flipping a switch in the settings panel, it's not like some exclusive club. But beta builds are not what you should be using if you want "stable". Windows 11 doesn't offer anything that will vastly improve your life right now, other than the new UI if you like the looks of that more than 10. Also running beta / insider builds locks some things out of your control, for example telemetry is locked on. Which might be related to this issue, now that I think about it: BrainDance posted:But, I'm out
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Jul 31, 2021 17:40
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the first two builds were working fine except that something was causing me to get massive compositor drops in VR, like every 3rd frame, that just do not happen in Win10. I have ideas, and if any of them are right I don't really expect this to get fixed until RTM. Sucks though.
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Bloopsy posted:All I need to know is if it will work on my Phenom II 965. KozmoNaut posted:I think the official statement is "no way in hell". Apparently the 900 series chipsets have UEFI booting, it's sucky but it's there. SecureBoot & TPM might be avoidable things that you can force your way around. But I would not recommend it. That's the very first generation of chips with support for 2nd-gen hardware virtualization, which is an absolute requirement for W11. So you might be able to trick W11 into installing on the machine and it would run, but it'll be slow as balls. Stick with W10 until it is EOL, or you get a new PC.
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Jul 31, 2021 23:44
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FuzzySlippers posted:wasn't there a new feature that let you assign different 'desktops' to different monitors? That would allow some useful differences from a normal multi screen setup. It's hard to google since desktop is such a common word. The word you're looking for is 'wallpaper', as in the background image on your desktop, and yes 11 will allow different wallpaper on each virtual desktop. edit: instructions
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Aug 6, 2021 00:52
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PenguinKnight posted:Yep, I don’t see the ryzen 3 2200u on any of the lists. I probably can’t update my 3 year old laptop because of it. It’s also confusing because it sounds like you can install from other methods but you might not get updates for it? That CPU is on the Zen 1 architecture (same as Ryzen 1000 series desktop CPUs), which doesn't have the particular hardware acceleration feature that MS wants for their virtualization-based security. This will cause performance loss, though how noticeable it will be day-to-day I don't know. See this article, scroll down to the section titled "A towering stack of security acronyms". Hungry Computer posted:I'm a little sceptical of Microsoft's claim that unsupported CPUs have 52% more kernel mode crashes in win11. They give the same 52% figure when discussing AMD Zen1 and for unsupported CPUs in general. Doesn't make sense to me that they'd have the exact same rate of failure. They also don't give any context at all for those crashes. I dunno, I could see that being totally accurate if they're banging on a feature that older CPUs don't fully support, and instead of fixing the problems with lots of code on their end they've decided to just say gently caress it no 11 for you. Apple does it, why can't we? Which is where, after plenty of thought, I've come down on the "11 is a clusterfuck" situation. It's not a bad idea, but it's way too soon and way too confusing. Apple can drop legacy support because they put a ton of thought into the transition and don't confuse the squares. This 11 stuff would work if they were announcing 11 this year and it was coming out next fall. Or they could do the hardware part this fall and call it 10.1 to make it less of a big deal. The plan that there's gonna be a multi-year period where both 10 and 11 are gonna be in common use, and they have different GUIs, is loving terrible.
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Aug 29, 2021 18:45
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Combat Pretzel posted:Zen+ is supported, which is pretty much Zen 1, and doesn't have that MBEC feature listed, either. Guess what processor is in the Microsoft Surface 3 15" laptop, which MS was selling as recently as 4 months ago? Go on. Guesssssssss. It wouldn't be MS without one division holding a gun to another division's head and yelling "support my product or so help me god I'll do it!"
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Aug 29, 2021 21:07
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:I like Windows 11 so far and I'm not sure what people mean about it being mouse unfriendly? I haven't had a chance to use touch yet, so far it's just replaced 10 for me and works absolutely fine in that regard. New, centered start menu is either close to a centered start button that's also a moving target, or far away from a left-side start button Start menu puts the top of the pinned list (which is where you'd naturally put your most favored links, from a top-down reading attention pattern) the farthest away from the start button, and puts their "recommended" junk (which will no doubt have ads later on) between the mouse and where you're going. The way to see your complete app list is hitting a tiny button, after which you get a flat alphabetical list. Goodbye categorical organization. Who cares, it's not like hierarchical folders are some important principle of computers! No task bar placement, no useful context menu on taskbar (it's a huge target surface, empty taskbar space is now useless) Popup menus are huge for touch-centric interaction or at the very least super-high DPI screens Removal of text on many interactive buttons favor of textless, uniform-size icons quote:I especially don't get this. Hasn't Windows had grouped icons since at least 7? I haven't noticed any different behaviour there in 11. Some people take longer to adapt than others.  (OTOH I don't know what browser his mom is using that still generates separate error messages underneath normal windows. Chrome & FF both put javascript message boxes and errors related to web content inside the tab they're generated by, and general error messages that make an actual windows dialog box should be on-top.)
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Aug 30, 2021 03:12
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2 months ago:Klyith posted:So until I see a clear and cogent explanation for how TPM etc is being used in the security process, other than obvious (and non-essential) parts like bitlocker or windows hello, I see no reason to take their word for granted. And in particular, when they give disingenuous explanations that have a real lying with statistics look to them -- like the "surface was 60% less hit by malware" -- that makes me suspicious. Now: Microsoft finally clarifies Windows 11’s TPM requirements MS has put out a support page on TPM, and yup, it's not doing any amazing new security magic. The features that use it will not protect a PC from malware attacks in any way. TPM in W11 is used for bitlocker and windows hello. That's it. Both of those are useful features, but a) they already exist in W10, and b) they are not required for all or even the majority of users. Bitlocker is good for people who need data encryption, but it also works pretty well without TPM. Hello is nice for people who want biometric logon, but the majority of people doing that are using laptops and laptops generally ship with TPM turned on already. So this turned out exactly how I predicted. Their previous reasons for the TPM mandate were bullshit. The real reasons are useful, but no different from the existing Windows 10 environment and in no way necessary for W11 to operate. If the new version of Hello requires TPM, it could easily be handled by messaging the user that TPM must be turned on when they choose to set up Hello. Maybe MS just doesn't want the potential support issues of Hello needing TPM but not having it 100% guaranteed available OOTB. And maybe they're forcing it with W11 for the same reasons that it was originally designed for, but enough time has passed that people forgot that TPM was always a potentially user-hostile feature.
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Sep 10, 2021 17:06
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Rinkles posted:Does that have any bearing on the separate CPU restrictions? No, CPUs with built-in TPM enclaves long predate what's on the W11 support list. The CPU support thing is ironically a way more well-founded and reasonable demand! Using a hypervisor to isolate the OS kernel and defender from everything else is a good anti-malware defense. But it would kinda suck for people to get a surprise performance hit from upgrading to 11, so a tiny support list is rational. So that's a case where I actually agree with MS that their next major OS should require CPUs with that feature set. But I think that forcing the changeover this fall is insanely early.
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Sep 10, 2021 17:43
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Hungry Computer posted:MS Game Pass is the main reason Windows is on my home PC. As far as I can tell there's still no way to run that or any UWP apps in Linux. The other option, and what I've decided is my long term plan after being very turned off by 11, is the new-ish linux KVM tech that can run a Windows VM inside your linux host with bare-metal performance. And then output it to a window on a linux desktop. It's loving witchcraft. OTOH it's still mega-nerding where you have to write your own configs specific to your hardware, so maybe not for people who are just getting started with linux. Also you need a 2nd GPU, which is why it will stay a long range plan for me until whenever GPU prices finally unfuck themselves.
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Sep 11, 2021 06:14
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DerekSmartymans posted:Programs. Computers run programs. I mean, it’s not like it’s against the law to refer to them as “apps,” it’s just grating to my 47 y/o ears. I am still posting on a 22 year old dead gay forum, after all. Application programs or "apps" are specifically user-facing programs that normal people do things with. All applications are programs, not all programs are applications. Your web browser is an app, notepad.exe is an app. MySQL database software isn't an app, grep isn't an app. Everything on phones is an app because that's the only thing phones can do. The contraction "app" dates to before mobile phones existed, people were talking about a "killer app" in the 90s and Jobs in fact used the phrase when the iphone was first revealed.
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Sep 11, 2021 21:48
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Combat Pretzel posted:If I have to run VMs left and right to make this work, I ought to stick to Windows to begin with. I gave it an extended try a long while back, when GPU passthrough via VFIO started to become a thing, and I found myself running the VM more than the underlying Linux system. CaptainSarcastic posted:I've run dual-boots back to the early 2000s, with Mandrake Linux starting off as my go-to. Over the years the balance of time shifted more and more to the Linux side of the dual-boot for me, but still having to use Windows when I'm at the office or using my work laptop. Like I said, I don't have to run much in the way of proprietary software, and have been too lazy to find workarounds for the few things that I do. Yeah, this is gonna be different for everyone. At this point a whole lot of the software I use is multi-platform, and the things that aren't have pretty decent analogues on the linux side. Hell, you get visual studio in linux now with VSCode. If I had more windows-only software that I was unavoidably tied to, that might make the "living inside the VM" issue a problem. But for me, it's pretty much just games and game-adjacent stuff keeping me tied to windows. And I absolutely can't do the dual-boot thing, because the Windows side also has all the multi-platform software I need and dual booting is a PITA. I don't want to shut down all the stuff I was working on during the day and reboot just to play a game. That sucks. I've done the dual-boot thing and it leads to me drifting back into windows.
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Sep 12, 2021 02:27
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Heran Bago posted:It looks sleeker than the old exploded folded icons, and I'm sure it's nice for performance not having to generate thumbnails, but god drat. Building the W10 folder thumbnails should be a completely trivial process, and the fact that it isn't performant (and other things about Explorer's performance with some types of file metadata) is a loving laugh. To show the exploded folder with icons in it, you only need the 2 most-recent files. So all you need to do to make this a near-zero delay is to do 2 checks: 1. if these are files that can have unique thumbnails (ie images, videos, mp3s with cover pics, etc), are they in the thumbnail cache already? 2. if not, is it an image that's less than a couple MB (ie a file that's super-quick to generate thumbnails for)? If no to both, just use the default icon for that filetype in the folder thumbnail, until the user at some point opens the folder and you do the full thumbnail generation. But thumbnails aren't the worst offender by far. The worst is how Explorer, ever since they added the auto folder type detection, has default views for music and video folders that include tag metadata. Generating thumbnails takes a hot minute for stuff like video (where it not only has to decode video, but it jumps forward a few % so it shows a more representative frame), but explorer is still responsive while that happens. The thing that makes explorer actually pause with a blank view panel and progress bar is finding the metadata that it needs for the details column. It has to get all that before it can display the file list. And that sucks. Ancient tag formats like ID3 are trash, and most common file types use completely awful hacks for how they store that metadata. Trying to parse 100s of files to find artist or song length is a fool's errand. Explorer is a file manager, not a media manager.
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Sep 13, 2021 20:18
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nielsm posted:Microsoft Store. Wait a second, lemme check my event log real quick... quote:Deployment Register operation with target volume C: on Package Microsoft.WindowsMaps_2021.2012.10.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe from: (AppxBundleManifest.xml) failed with error 0x80073CF9. See http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=235160 for help diagnosing app deployment issues. the MS Store can't even keep their own apps up to date, lol
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Sep 17, 2021 17:09
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Doccykins posted:they do seem to have nix'd any functionality regarding the taskbar entirely. The other day I was trying to attach one email to another and found that I couldn't drag the mail-to-be-attached and hover over the Outlook icon to bring up the mail I wanted to attach it to What the gently caress? Is that for all windows / apps? Like, if you have a fullscreen browser and an explorer window behind it, and you try to drag and drop a link or image over to the explorer icon on the taskbar to pull it up to the front, does that not work? Holy poo poo that is insane if true, that is functionality that goes all the want back to 95.
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Oct 1, 2021 20:04
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So after all the fuckery with system requirements, HVCI (the thing that needs a recent CPU and is the biggest addition to security) isn't even enabled out of the box.Twibbit posted:Well I am lost and confused, and was apparently the one person who liked start tiles. But like all things I will adapt. Like, having different-size shortcuts was neat but the main idea of tiles was dynamic content.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:08
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The Merkinman posted:Surely this time the new version of Windows is so bad that people will switch to Linux. If it didn't cost $250 for even the most basic 2d-desktop-only video card, I'd be working on it right now. OTOH it looks like GPUs are gonna stay expensive long enough for MS to fix the most boneheaded idiocy like the bottom-only taskbar. So we'll see how it shakes out after a year. The first year of win10 was kinda shaky too. I didn't upgrade from 7 until after the Anniversary Update and had a much better experience. (But it's not like I'm a representative case. Fix your post to be "windows is so bad and has such crazy requirements that more people switch to ipads and chromebooks, rather than buy a new mega-expensive PC during a supply crisis" and we're talking though.)
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Oct 7, 2021 15:46
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MS isn't going to blanket deny updates to old hardware, their whole thing with 10 has been to reduce the number of unpatched windows boxes to a bare minimum. They're not going to withhold updates out of perversity or to force people to buy new poo poo. They're saying it for like legal & PR protection. My prediction for a force-installed 11 on unsupported hardware: 1. The future big update that turns HVCI to default on for everyone may not install until you do something to make it happen. 2. Future major "feature" updates -- which will be 1 per year in 11 -- won't auto-install themselves until much later in the cycle. Their testing rollout will all be on supported hardware, unsupported hardware will all get lumped in when MS says "seems good, deploy everywhere". (Some people might call this a pro, not a con.) 3. Finally, if updates to 11 have some major incompatibility with old hardware, MS won't give a poo poo about fixing it. If some old hardware turns out to have a crash bug with some future 11 patch they'll probably just blacklist the hardware. This is the least likely thing but might be the thing that really fucks someone over.
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Oct 8, 2021 00:00
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I've discovered a new most grating thing about windows 11: if you do the typical "type the first few letters of an app to find it" thing with the start menu, it works fine, but if you type a few more letters, it'll attempt to start a bing search through edge instead. That means they're limiting you to something like 4 letters and if you inadvertently go over before you reflexively press enter, it'll launch edge and do a bing search of the incomplete app name you just typed. And I can't find a way to turn this off. Great, thanks Microsoft! Do the Win10 methods to block bing search on the start menu still exist / work? (group policy, registry edit)
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Oct 9, 2021 16:06
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