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Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
People in Indonesia are wanting their government to try and buy unwanted AZ from us, so there is a place we could send whatever we produce in the future to, in addition to the pacific island countries we already have agreements with. But I guess Morrison wouldn't love the optics of sending a large amount overseas while Australians remain unvaccinated either.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/we-are-in-need-of-vaccines-indonesians-eye-australia-s-unwanted-astrazeneca-20210701-p58610.html

quote:

Dr Erlina Burhan, the spokeswoman for COVID-19 from the Indonesian Medical Association, said Indonesia’s health ministry and state-owned vaccine producer PT Bio Farma should procure any unwanted doses from the 50 million being produced by Australian biotech company CSL.

“The health ministry should buy them,” she told The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. “They should want it because we are in need of vaccines.”

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Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
I can't believe that telephoto lens photos of people outside was still enough to convince people that it's a nothing lockdown, it's just permanently April 2020 in Auspol I guess. If you look at the recent google mobility data you'll see -33% for retail and recreation spaces, -18% for parks, -62% for public transport and -35% for workplaces, that's for all of NSW and many places aren't in lockdown. There's been so many photos of people outside at Bondi floating around, but the Waverley council area is -50% in all areas except supermarkets which are -30%. This sort of lockdown seems to have restricted mobility and didn't involve human rights violations by locking people in public housing towers on short notice and never apologising for it.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

Tommunist posted:

Hrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

https://twitter.com/juliette_io/status/1412604628584206342?s=20

Here we can compare two recent lock downs. I ask the thread to come to its own conclusion s based on the evidence.

Isn't the conclusion what I posted? Considering I was never comparing which lockdown was the most lockdown, I was just stating that it's disingenuous to refer to it as a 'mockdown' when there has clearly been a decrease in all areas. Grocery shopping was well above baseline pre-lockdown, and is now at baseline levels. For example, pre lockdown Bankstown was +40% compared to Baseline and is now +15%. The drop would be even bigger if the lockdown was state wide, but it isn't and hopefully won't need to be.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

freebooter posted:

Someone on twitter was seriously arguing that "nowhere in the world" has managed to deal with a Delta outbreak despite that fact that Melbourne and Perth both dealt with Sydney's loving spillover by swiftly going into lockdown

Everyone here loves to refer to Sydney's spillover, keep in mind at many points in this pandemic, 50% of returned travellers in NSW hotel quarantine have been people travelling onto other states after returning internationally without anybody in NSW complaining about the Labor premiers abandoning returning Australians. Perhaps NSW quarantine would have never had any leaks at all had Labor premiers been willing to do their job and help reunite Australians with their families, without inventing imaginary evil migrant holidaymaker narratives.

Those outbreaks in Melbourne and Perth didn't involve hairdressers that worked at a salon where 900 clients were potentially exposed. The first limo driver case in this outbreak was reported on the the 16th, the problems with the Double Bay Salon began on the 15th and were unknown until the 24th, at which point restrictions immediately began to tighten. Unless NSW was supposed to lockdown before any cases were reported, the situation is not remotely comparable to the small number of cases Victoria and Perth had to deal with.

It does seem like a valid point that right now Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, South Korea, Malaysia, Fiji etc are experiencing record numbers of cases despite having handled the situation well up to now. It's almost like this is a more infectious variant that is harder to deal with, which results in more unknown spread earlier on. And NSW is still better positioned than most other places that are handling a Delta outbreak right now.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
On the topic of ruined plans, it's a shame 18,000 Australians had their plans to return to Australia this year ruined because Victoria, Queensland and WA made a push for the arrival cap to be slashed. Still amazes me that Australians continue to have zero sympathy for anybody that happened to be overseas at the time this began.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...ox=1626226978-1

quote:

Six international flights that were supposed to be carrying Australians home will arrive at Sydney Airport completely empty of passengers today with new, halved flight caps coming into effect.

Three more planes, carrying eight, ten and 12 passengers each will land - and between them they are capable of carrying at least 750 passengers.

From today, the number of Australians allowed home will be slashed from 6070 to 3035 following a push by the Labor Premiers at the national cabinet which will see 18,000 Australians bumped from flights over the next six weeks.

Around 34,000 Australians have told DFAT that they wish to come home but can’t because of the restrictions on the number who can enter per week.

Also remember how this NSW outbreak started because of a guy that drove the crew from a freight plane?

quote:

The number of freight-only flights, or completely passenger-less flights today has increased to 16 compared to 11 last week meaning they now outnumber those carrying Australians.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

Laserface posted:

we want to simultaneously skirt the laws while also throwing the loving book at anyone who breaks them.


most of the cases of wanting throw the book at people who break covid rules involve people that aren't white so it sounds more like a fygm, racist, cop loving, snitch culture

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
Story is a few days old but it's weird that all these non-citizens came into the country, brought covid with them and nobody cared

https://thewest.com.au/news/coronavirus/us-soldiers-in-nt-declared-close-contacts-c-3399336.amp

quote:

A planeload of US military personnel in the Northern Territory have been declared close contacts after a fellow passenger tested positive for COVID-19.

The infected woman, who is a serving member of the US Army, arrived in Darwin on Thursday July 8 before being diagnosed with the virus late on Monday.

The 22-year-old is one of about 9000 foreign service personnel in Australia for the Talisman Sabre 2021 military war games, which started on Wednesday.

More than 17,000 military personnel from Australia, the US, UK, Canada, New Zealand, Japan and South Korea will take part in TS21.

The majority of the mock war games are scheduled to take place in Queensland and off the east coast of Australia.

UK, Canadian, Japanese, and Korean service personnel have quarantined in Sydney. Other foreign troops have been billeted to Brisbane hotels, a spokesman said.

Pretty cool that Queensland was demanding that arrival caps be cut while making space for foreign troops to quarantine in Brisbane hotels.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

Tommunist posted:

You seem very mad about this one particular issue.

Yes I am mad about everything relating to border issues because I have a sick grandparent overseas and a partner I haven't seen in 18 months and have no loving idea when I will see either of them, that partner also has 8 cases of covid in her immediate family that live right nextdoor and I'm trapped in this loving place forever because scotty didn't buy enough loving vaccines. It's cool that everyone in this thread has been able to live a happy normal life most of the time, it'd be even better if Australians could have their happy normal lives while actually having any empathy whatsoever for people separated from their loved ones.

Centusin fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jul 17, 2021

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

Tommunist posted:

Why do you constantly make angry posts about qld then?

I've made 2-3 posts on that issue, my only issues with the QLD, WA and VIC premiers are that they have consistently been at the frontline of wanting to decrease the cap on arrivals, the WA premier going so far to attack individuals travelling to see family members, without even considering how difficult it can be mentally to go so long without seeing them. My issue with Queensland comes from the "holiday-maker" narrative the premier pushed which was thoroughly disproven, but everybody just took as gospel.

Literally the only reason I defend Gladys at all is because she has consistently emphasised that it's important to continue to reunite families, while most other premiers in the country have completely ignored people in my position. My posts have been angrier lately just because I've been stressed as gently caress about all the covid positive people I currently know in a country with an overwhelmed healthcare system.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
It’s very dumb that we have a delta outbreak, a mountain of AZ nobody wants but apparently we can’t use that and instead need to talk about redirecting Pfizer. Based on the current numbers if you vaccinated all of SW and W sydney like 3 people might get blood clots? Just start a campaign encouraging everyone in the area to get an AZ shot, and Pfizer can remain the preferred option for young people in other states.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN posted:

its transparently about juicing the fully vaccinated number asap regardless of how much protection it actually provides. the same rules lawyering way theyve approached the entire pandemic

It's actually completely in line with the latest ATAGI advice https://www.health.gov.au/news/atagi-statement-on-use-of-covid-19-vaccines-in-an-outbreak-setting

quote:

In the context of a COVID-19 outbreak where the supply of Comirnaty (Pfizer) is constrained, adults younger than 60 years old who do not have immediate access to Comirnaty (Pfizer) should re-assess the benefits to them and their contacts from being vaccinated with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, versus the rare risk of a serious side effect.
While the recommended interval between the first and second doses of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca is between 4 and 12 weeks, in outbreak situations an interval of between 4 and 8 weeks is preferred. Therefore, people in an outbreak situation who received their first dose of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca more than 4 weeks ago should contact their vaccine provider to arrange their second dose as soon as possible. In non-outbreak settings, the preferred interval between doses of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca remains at 12 weeks.

Anyway the AMA are saying basically what I said

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...obox=1627018277

quote:

The president of the Australian Medical Association, Dr Omar Khorshid, says it is unlikely lockdown measures can contain the Delta outbreak in New South Wales and has urged the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (Atagi) to recommend the AstraZeneca vaccine for more age groups.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

Periphery posted:

Lockdown measures seem to be working in Vic so maybe NSW should stop half arsing it like the pack of spineless neo-liberal fuckwits that they are.

Edit: gently caress Gladys.

People in the LGA areas with the most new cases are currently unable to travel outside of their area other than for essential work, there is also an increased police presence in those areas, not sure they be locked down any harder. These are also diverse areas with lots of people in either essential or insecure work. Compliance isn't the issue, the majority of transmission is occuring in workplaces, households, supermarkets and pharmacies. Like, they hosed it up at first and I'm happy to admit I was wrong defending it back then, but there aren't any more restrictions to add that would help based on the data that's been released.

The high case numbers in disadvantaged areas thing happened in Vic too, and the solution here is likely similar to there, pay people to isolate after a test if they will lose income, bi-cultural communicators on the ground, and working with essential employers to ensure that workplaces are as covid safe as possible. But there's no guarantee it will work at this point because of the more infectious variant. We hosed it up by letting it get this bad before locking down and it may be 100% correct that vaccines are the only way out at this point.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/a-city-divided-covid-19-finds-a-weakness-in-melbourne-s-social-fault-lines-20200807-p55ji2.html

quote:

Melbourne is a city divided. Of its five most disadvantaged municipalities, four of them have the most active COVID-19 cases. The fifth disadvantaged area is Dandenong, where the Spotless laundry is. In Brimbank, in Melbourne's west the number of active cases is in excess of 800 - that's more than 10 times the level of Boroondara in the leafy inner east.

These five areas are also where the most insecure work is. It is minimum wage workers, often migrants, and often in contingent or casual jobs who are suffering unduly from the disease.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

Resident Idiot posted:

So, another four weeks for NSW. I wonder if they'll take it seriously this time?

Who isn't taking it seriously? The people working essential jobs locked into their LGA's or the government that locked them in there and implemented a 10km limit for everyone else? Everything non-essential is closed, outdoor masks are pointless because there are no cases of outdoor transmission, a curfew doesn't stop essential workers going to work and that and households is where the transmission is happening based off of every single statement and piece of data released.

It's all about giving people better financial support, better communications and doing whatever they can to reduce risk in essential workplaces at this point.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

i mean i hate scomo as much as everyone else but this is 100% correct, AZ is a great vaccine but some Labor people and the media have been treating it like a vial of poison, probably contributing to hesitancy among older people. Everyone needs to be more like Bill.

https://twitter.com/billshortenmp/status/1422405744062734336?s=20

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

freebooter posted:

Is this actually the case? Completely hosed if so. The most relevant metric should be: has everybody had the opportunity to receive both doses of the vaccine recommended to them? Like in the US where they've had MRNA vaccines being given away on street corners for months now. (Then the secondary metric, on top of that, should be "have we done as much as we can to convince/bribe/carrot/stick the hesitant into getting one too, to get closer to herd immunity.")

Counting the first dose towards the vaccination target is, if anything, a stronger incentive for people to wait for Pfizer. Irrespective of age group. (Apart from the very large chunk of society that has never really given a poo poo and will just do whatever in order to end lockdowns because that's the only thing that affects them.)

I think what she's actually flagging isn't a full re-opening, she's just said if they reach 50% of the Sydney adult population getting vaccinated then it gives them 'more options' about easing restrictions at the end of August. It's unclear what that means I guess, this below seems to be the quote. It does make it seem like 1 jab will count for that 50% number though so yeah I think you're right about that stronger incentive to wait for Pfizer thing.

quote:

“We know that 10 million jabs gives us 80 per cent of the adult population vaccinated. By the end of August, I’d like to see New South Wales record 6 million jabs because every time we go through a milestone, 6 million jabs is roughly half the population with at least one or two doses,” she said.

“That gives us additional options as to what life looks like on August 29.

Then today there was one example given in relation to the no jab, no work policy they're considering

quote:

In a situation where a worker and customer were both vaccinated, rules could be eased by the end of the month.

"Potentially, if someone that's providing a service is vaccinated and their client is vaccinated, we feel much more comfortable in relaxing that restriction on August 29," the Premier said.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
This is by an anonymous doctor, it's a pretty good article about the western sydney situation, it mostly hits the points everyone has been saying for a month that financial assistance is needed and better multicultural communication.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw-is-almost-certainly-on-the-precipice-of-a-massive-deterioration-20210809-p58h9w.html

quote:

As an experienced respiratory physician at a major western Sydney hospital, I am gravely concerned about the NSW government’s ineffective response to the Delta outbreak. As it has overseas, the pandemic is disproportionately affecting low-income migrant populations with insecure jobs.

NSW is almost certainly on the precipice of a massive deterioration. Contact tracers are overwhelmed, with reporting of infection hot spots lagging by days. The whole strategy of relying on contact tracing for infection control is failing, or indeed has failed.

Australia’s Chief Medical Officer, Professor Paul Kelly, emphasises the federal government’s overall aim is to eliminate the virus until adequate vaccination rates are achieved. However, the NSW government appears to have abandoned the first part of this strategy. Worryingly, it is now relying on achieving sufficient vaccination rates to allow society to progressively reopen.

This will take time. As a result, overseas evidence strongly indicates the Delta variant will continue to wreak havoc with untold numbers of infections, hospitalisations, ICU admissions and death. This is already happening now. No responsible individual has ever advocated for COVID elimination to be pursued indefinitely. However, it is critical until herd immunity is achieved.

NSW is suffering from a conspicuous failure of leadership. Are we trying to lock down to eliminate COVID, or are we attempting to vaccinate our way out of this pandemic? People are no longer clear what our COVID strategy is. People are losing faith in the lockdown. There is increasing resentment – going both ways – between south-western Sydney and the rest of the city. Of most concern is the loss of a sense “we are all in this together”. A lockdown that people understand and are motivated to comply with in western and south-western Sydney is essential.

So why is the lockdown of western and south-western Sydney failing?

The reasons are complex, but in my experience, some are evident on a daily basis at any outpatient clinic in our region. Between one-third and half of consultations have to be conducted with an interpreter. This could be in-person, over the telephone, or using a family member. Sometimes, doctors must use a common language such as Arabic, even though the patient may be Assyrian. Other patients, often refugees, are not literate in their first language. Federal and state government public health advertising has arguably not even been communicated well in English. To expect multicultural communities to quickly comprehend ever-changing public health directives is almost impossible.

Second, home isolation in south-western Sydney is particularly challenging in smaller homes with multiple family members living under the one roof. The option for hotel quarantining is restricted by the limited local availability.

Furthermore, some patients attending emergency departments are staunchly refusing to get tested because of the implications for their family. The necessity to quarantine close contacts would prevent hard-up family members from working. Some households are very sick, but their members do not seek help as they are trying to avoid restrictions.

Tragically, in certain western and south-western Sydney hospitals, COVID-infected patients are presenting so late in the course of their infection that it is necessary that emergency teams intubate them immediately upon their arrival. Such late presentations are not being seen at hospitals from the north, centre and east of Sydney.


With no economic safety net, no ability to work from home and distrust of governments, some residents fear the public health interventions being delivered. Many have been traumatised in their native countries, so seeing police on horses and troops patrolling neighbourhoods, may not result in the desired outcomes. This is not to say law enforcement should be abandoned, just that sensitivity is required.

If a greater level of COVID elimination is to be achieved, the failures of the current lockdown must be overcome. The NSW government must urgently re-establish trust through targeted advertising in multiple languages. Use local leaders in the community, social media influencers via residents’ children and grandchildren, and even beloved local sporting personalities.

Above all, affected communities must be supported. A large part of the solution to breaking this cycle is financial. A decent level of financial assistance must be offered in conjunction with a lockdown to allay people’s fears of economic loss from disclosing their infection.

NSW urgently needs strong leadership with clearly stated goals in place of the current void and mixed messaging. A vaccination strategy by itself will not work for months. Case numbers in western and south-western Sydney must be dramatically brought down for it to bear fruit.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

quote:

The Coalition has faced growing calls to offer a special humanitarian intake for Afghan refugees, similar to what the Abbott government set up in 2015 for 12,000 Syrian and Iraqi refugees. Such a move would be in addition to Australia’s existing annual humanitarian intake.

Morrison indicated the Australian government would provide about 3,000 humanitarian visas to Afghan nationals this year under its existing humanitarian program, not in addition.

you know things are dire when you're hoping that Morrison changes his mind and does something that Abbott did

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

BrigadierSensible posted:

Something else I have noticed with the NSW Gladys press conferences is that she is constantly throwing the blame on "people who are doing the wrong thing".
Constantly victim blaming, and thinking the solution is to throw more police at the problem, rather than lock down properly and proportionately to the spreading plague wildfire.

Does she think, (or want us to think), that NSW is just less law abiding than the rest of the country who manages to handle their lockdowns better due to us being nice boys and girls?

Also they were still blaming people today but then the deputy chief health officer said this

quote:

And so, one of the major drivers of the higher case numbers that we’re seeing in the areas of south-western Sydney and western Sydney is larger households that we’re seeing.

We’re seeing younger people and those who are often those authorised workers, those people that provide essential services, who work in aged care, work in disability, who work in healthcare settings, who work in factories, work in shopping centres. And so, transmission is happening between workplaces and households.

So for the vast majority of people, it’s not anybody doing the wrong thing. It’s what we are seeing with the Delta variant that is so highly transmissible.

They've said it before so it's not surprising but they still haven't told us if they are actually doing anything about it other than getting them vaccinated. We all know Vic had a spread in essential worker problem, and we also know that they did things that worked and told everyone about them. But NSW is just going to fine people sitting on benches for too long, talk about the number of penalties given and seemingly never address the thing that they keep saying is the actual problem.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
She isn’t victim blaming the unvaccinated, it’s just stating facts in order to prove that the vaccines are effective at preventing death. At the beginning people online were begging her to release info about the vaccination status of people in hospital in order to improve vaccination rates and convince the older people who were waiting for Pfizer to just go and get AZ.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
The NSW press release contained info about how to get your proof of vaccination on your phone or how to have it sent to you so presumably you will just have to show that to police if they ask you for it.

https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1430712111554985995?s=20

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
here's an article about a citizen journalist being detained then

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-28/china-jails-citizen-journalist-four-years-over-covid19-reporting/13018106

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
crikey posted craig kellys number in a free article earlier so you're free to give it a go that way

https://twitter.com/crikey_news/status/1432542415739625472?s=20

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

BrigadierSensible posted:

She is a horrible person who has caused a great deal of pain and death. gently caress her.



still significantly less death than dan caused fwiw

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
https://twitter.com/sarahinthesen8/status/1433965275003572225?s=20

Craig Kelly needs to get covid and die already

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

The Artificial Kid posted:

The strictest lockdown is everyone gets food parcels delivered by the government and doesn't leave their house except by ambulance until COVID stops existing.

Since August 23rd Ho Chi Minh City residents aren't allowed to leave their home except for essential workers in 11 different groups, and there are police checkpoints everywhere so documents are definitely being examined. Food is being delivered by community workers and soldiers, at certain essential offices and factories workers are having to work, eat and sleep there. No real sign any of it is working yet.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
There's a new report out from usyd and the immunisation research and surveillance centre about covid and schools

https://twitter.com/samanthamaiden/status/1435455882997891083?s=20

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
unvaccinated covid terrorists will be running around coughing on people deliberately

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
https://twitter.com/JamieTravers/status/1436501959058460676?s=20

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

BrigadierSensible posted:

Is she getting airlifted into the seat, or does she still have to deal with pre-selection?

Tu Le will still contest pre-selection against Keneally but it's pretty much a done deal. Shoppies worked to get Deb O'Neill no 1. on the senate ticket forcing Keneally to the unwinnable number 3, and now all the NSW right will put their weight behind Keneally to run in Fowler.

quote:

In March 2020, Senator O'Neill forced a member of the Fair Work Commission to defend his waifus, figurines of whom he had placed in his office

the anti-anime senator

Centusin fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Sep 11, 2021

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
Regional hospitals will end up with 3 old people in the icu with covid and the whole thing will collapse

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
I hope the public transport shutdown stuff doesn't get abused later on when people are protesting about things that are actually important

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

I have no idea what the problem with that article is when it’s just accurately reporting what happened and clearly isn’t suggesting that the protesters were correct about the presence of a firearm

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

CrazyTolradi posted:

Burnet Institute modelling predicting a peak case load in Victoria higher than what we’ve seen in NSW so far, despite Vic locking down on day one of the outbreak, really renders the “NSW mockdown/you have to lockdown harder” as stupid as it seemed at the time. Months wasted.

why are you posting osman faruqi's tweets

https://twitter.com/oz_f/status/1439419495865466880?s=20

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
The RBA was going on about immigration as the cause of lower wage growth earlier this year and there was lots of writing that migrants aren't bad for workers at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2021/jul/15/blaming-migrants-for-australias-lower-wages-growth-is-easy-but-too-simplistic

https://theconversation.com/top-economists-say-cutting-immigration-is-no-way-to-boost-wages-165394

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
Abbotts first budget was a very clear plan for the country compared to anything Morrison or Turnbull did, it was just a terrible plan that everyone hated.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
icac is formally investigating gladys so she'll probably step down as leader and hand over the reigns to someone else now that cases are going down

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
If I was the NSW labor leader I would have had a whole bunch of tweets and social media posts ready to go when gladdy stepped down, Chris Minns is too good for that though and has chosen silence instead

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009

BrigadierSensible posted:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/a-deep-sense-of-loss-gladys-berejiklian-worked-her-way-into-people-s-hearts-20211001-p58wix.html#comments

The loving headline on this article.

The actual content is bullshit sycophantic nonsense too, but really that headline.

gently caress off Gladys, you corrupt arseface, and gently caress the way you allowed COVID to spread faster and wider than it should have, and are now glorying in your "success" in fighting it.

If only NSW Labor was worth half a cup of warm dogs piss, but alas they aren't and your legacy will live on. And mostly told in breathless terms like this.

At least an article like that from a former Liberal party leader is expected but I have no idea what's going on here

https://twitter.com/SBSNews/status/1444099539862843393?s=20

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
Countries have had looser border restrictions than Australia and not ended up like the US. Most places still allowed their citizens to return home and they even used hotel quarantine to do it safely. Coming back into Australia should actually be the guaranteed right though. If you are only an Australian citizen then this is the 1 place on earth you are guaranteed the right to live/work etc.

The religion & ethics part of ABC did a thing on it

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/is-australias-india-travel-ban-legal-moral-just/13335360

quote:

The idea that a citizen has a fundamental right to return freely to their country has deep historical roots. Under common law, this stems from the Magna Carta. It is also an important principle of international law, enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

Centusin fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Oct 2, 2021

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Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
The positive is that all those people won't ever consider moving to our much better country at least

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