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Does Voting Matter This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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91 | 28.44% |
| No |
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133 | 41.56% |
| Jeb |
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59 | 18.44% |
| Bernie |
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37 | 11.56% |
| Total: | 320 votes | ||
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uspol spillover thread
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Jul 10, 2021 23:13
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| # ? May 4, 2024 10:01 |
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imo yes and you should do it and then you should shut up about it so i never have to hear about how people vote plz and ty Also voting is the literally bare minimum level of political involvement and I hope no one is all 'well i voted my work here is done'
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Jul 10, 2021 23:17
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Vote! And often!
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Jul 10, 2021 23:20
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Rating threads is the only voting I respect
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Jul 10, 2021 23:22
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No. Everything gets worse no matter who you vote for. Voting is the equivalent of the TSA making you take your shoes off to get on the airplane, a thing solely designed to make you feel more safe while actually being an enormous waste of resources. If anyone raises the question of *why* its necessary to check shoes, they point out that one guy twenty years ago who failed to accomplish anything. This is all just criticism of the US system, which pits a far right death cult against a center right caretaker who has long since given up on positive fundamental change. If you have actual political parties that represent things other than funneling infinite money into the pockets of the wealthy, then voting might matter.
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Jul 10, 2021 23:23
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If nothing matters you should probably stop following politics because its gonna drive you insane.
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Jul 10, 2021 23:26
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Yes. Go do it. Especially if you're privileged enough where it takes minimal effort/time. E: World Famous W, thank you for being the inspiration for this thread. Now shut up about it in the USnews thread.
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Jul 10, 2021 23:26
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Yes, I vote when I can. This thread gets my moderate vote of 3.
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Jul 10, 2021 23:32
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On a personal level I agree that voting is good and that everyone who can should. But what about accelerationists who believe that by making everything as bad as possible, as quickly as possible, including the collapse of the US government, that everyone will magically turn into a leftist and overnight we will have medicare for all? Should they vote too?
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Jul 10, 2021 23:32
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Yeah, but it's a collectivist action and one single vote is rarely a significant action. Also I personally hate when people who are politically minded don't vote because they're in a solid blue state. Your state is only solidly blue because other people go vote and unless you're arbitrarily deciding that for some reason you're special whereas those people are not.
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Jul 10, 2021 23:34
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:On a personal level I agree that voting is good and that everyone who can should. Accelerationists are probably such a tiny minority of the voting public that I doubt their votes make a difference one way or another. They're negligible. However, they have every right to vote and I hope that by participating I'm the process they will come to change their minds eventually.
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Jul 10, 2021 23:42
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But the internet told me that being leftist requires being a nihilist that takes no actions and just complains and waits for things passively, which I am sure is a total coincidence and not a targeted campaign that every single possible effective action is labeled as “anti leftist.
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Jul 10, 2021 23:45
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in 2020 electoralism gave the US a choice between two dementia-addled rapists who's only fundamental difference was that one of them wouldn't shut the gently caress up online your vote hasn't mattered since before you were born the oligarchy is going to do what they want to who they want regardless of the color of hat the ruling party wears
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Jul 10, 2021 23:49
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Gulping Again posted:in 2020 electoralism gave the US a choice between two dementia-addled rapists who's only fundamental difference was that one of them wouldn't shut the gently caress up online Maybe if there was a thing people could vote in called "primaries", in which a bigger turnout could have had allowed us have a choice that wasn't between two rapists..... Or if there were more candidates that didn't belong to the two main parties that people could still vote for...... Kalit fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 23:55
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Gulping Again posted:in 2020 electoralism gave the US a choice between two dementia-addled rapists who's only fundamental difference was that one of them wouldn't shut the gently caress up online If nothing matters why post about it? Why do you care at all?
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Jul 11, 2021 00:15
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What about local votes? State votes? Even school boards, comptrollers, city councils, etc? Those are often decided by single or double digit margins. Honestly I would struggle to even significantly connect most local level candidates to national level political parties and the various failings of national level politics. In cities/counties/states where judges and sheriffs are decided by vote, does voting matter there?
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Jul 11, 2021 00:18
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Pretty sure the nothing matters crew isn't engaged in their local politics, either. It's a lazy philosophy for lazy people.
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Jul 11, 2021 00:20
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Herstory Begins Now posted:What about local votes? State votes? Even school boards, comptrollers, city councils, etc? Those are often decided by single or double digit margins. Honestly I would struggle to even significantly connect most local level candidates to national level political parties and the various failings of national level politics. Local votes are definitely something that people probably should vote in as your vote really can matter for those. For something like the Presidential election? I dunno. I live in a deep red state so my vote for that never matters unless you subscribe to the theory that a president winning more of the national vote leads to more of a mandate. Or I guess you could also argue that the more liberal I make this state by voting the more likely it is that organizations will invest in left wing causes/candidates here, whether locally or nationally and maybe that leads to a shift long term.
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Jul 11, 2021 00:35
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The problem is not that votes don't matter, it's that rural racists' votes matter too much.
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Jul 11, 2021 00:40
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Kalit posted:Yes. Go do it. Especially if you're privileged enough where it takes minimal effort/time. Also, I guess just to make this on topic. You are under no obligation to vote for someone if they do not match your standards in policy or morality. You should still check out the ballots though because (at least here in alabama) there will probably be bills and local positions you should vote on.
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Jul 11, 2021 00:52
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Vote at every opportunity, but be reconciled to the fact that in some states your vote will likely never change the outcome (i.e. voting for the Democratic Party in Oklahoma or the Republican Party in California).
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Jul 11, 2021 00:58
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Herstory Begins Now posted:What about local votes? State votes? Even school boards, comptrollers, city councils, etc? Those are often decided by single or double digit margins. Honestly I would struggle to even significantly connect most local level candidates to national level political parties and the various failings of national level politics. Those are also mostly 'what level of overt racism do you want presented to you' and if 2020 made anything clear, it's the fact that any local position where an individual vote could matter is one where the opinion of local law enforcement matters far more.
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Jul 11, 2021 01:04
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Gulping Again posted:Those are also mostly 'what level of overt racism do you want presented to you' and if 2020 made anything clear, it's the fact that any local position where an individual vote could matter is one where the opinion of local law enforcement matters far more. Please explain what you mean here. How does a cop's opinion matter more than a comptroller? what does a cop's opinion even have to do with a school board member?
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Jul 11, 2021 01:12
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Please explain what you mean here. How does a cop's opinion matter more than a comptroller? what does a cop's opinion even have to do with a school board member? Do you remember how, in the fallout of George Floyd's killing and the unrest that followed, the city government promised to re-examine their city's police budgets and all of that? Do you remember how the open neo-nazi who the police union elected to be their leader used a combination of incessant whining and blatant threats to make them back down from that and they ended up deciding that the police actually need more money because they do such good work for the community?
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Jul 11, 2021 01:21
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Kalit posted:Maybe if there was a thing people could vote in called "primaries", in which a bigger turnout could have had allowed us have a choice that wasn't between two rapists..... Remember when Biden was a distant fourth with no real path forward, and then mysteriously every centrist candidate dropped out and endorsed Biden, while the advertised as left wing candidate stayed in despite having absolutely no chance? And also a popular folk hero who had previously claimed would not endorse suddenly endorsed the shambling segregationist zombie responsible for such hits as the Crime Bill? The game was rigged from the start. Anything above the local level is a waste of time to participate in.
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Jul 11, 2021 01:22
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Gulping Again posted:Do you remember how, in the fallout of George Floyd's killing and the unrest that followed, the city government promised to re-examine their city's police budgets and all of that? Do you remember how the open neo-nazi who the police union elected to be their leader used a combination of incessant whining and blatant threats to make them back down from that and they ended up deciding that the police actually need more money because they do such good work for the community? I'm not seeing how not voting does anything whatsoever to improve this?
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Jul 11, 2021 01:29
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For people who don't feel voting matters in your current situation: in your ideal version of government is there voting and does that voting matter?
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Jul 11, 2021 02:01
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Gulping Again posted:in 2020 electoralism gave the US a choice between two dementia-addled rapists who's only fundamental difference was that one of them wouldn't shut the gently caress up online There are a few hundred thousand Iraqis who might think differently about the outcome of the 2000 US presidential election. Or, they would if they were still alive, anyway.
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Jul 11, 2021 02:03
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Space Gopher posted:There are a few hundred thousand Iraqis who might think differently about the outcome of the 2000 US presidential election. Weird that Jeb Bush, brother of presidential candidate George Bush, just decided some votes didnt count and awarded the state to Bush. The presidential candidate, not the governor of the state. Almost like voting didnt matter for some people who voted the wrong way (according to the guy that ran the state)
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Jul 11, 2021 02:08
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Nobody makes you vote if you don't want to, but it's hard to take it seriously when people who are vocal about not participating complain about the outcomes.Nix Panicus posted:Remember when Biden was a distant fourth with no real path forward, and then mysteriously every centrist candidate dropped out and endorsed Biden, while the advertised as left wing candidate stayed in despite having absolutely no chance? And also a popular folk hero who had previously claimed would not endorse suddenly endorsed the shambling segregationist zombie responsible for such hits as the Crime Bill? Sorry but this is just alternate history. Biden was in It's not very convincing when your argument for elections being rigged is that a bunch of no hope candidates didn't stay in the race to split the vote, so the person with more votes won and the outcome wasn't decided by back room deals. James Garfield fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 11, 2021 02:18
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Voting matters, but not voting (or voting for a third candidate) should also be considered a valid choice. A two-party system where one party actively chooses to be only marginally better than the opposition, because they believe that their votes are guaranteed, is absolutely not a healthy democracy. If you want something, then you need to be prepared to withhold your vote if neither party offers it. Voting for the lesser evil only serves to keep evil in power.
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Jul 11, 2021 02:28
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Nix Panicus posted:Weird that Jeb Bush, brother of presidential candidate George Bush, just decided some votes didnt count and awarded the state to Bush. The presidential candidate, not the governor of the state. Almost like voting didnt matter for some people who voted the wrong way (according to the guy that ran the state) How did Jeb bush get in the position to do a thing like that?
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Jul 11, 2021 02:48
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How are u posted:If nothing matters you should probably stop following politics because its gonna drive you insane. Politics is more than voting, please tell me you actually know that.
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Jul 11, 2021 03:51
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Voting is the sort of thing where there's not really a big enough difference between doing or not doing it for it to make sense for someone to get worked up about it (or to care what other people do). Someone can decide for themselves what makes sense for them. I do think there's some value in at least accepting some basic truths, though. Like people need to understand that voting will never lead to addressing issues like climate change (or accomplishing most left-wing goals). It can sometimes have value for addressing other issues (depending on the situation in question), but someone is just delusional if they think they're going to vote their way into the US government taking action that runs contrary to the interests of wealthy organizations and individuals in our country. By voting you're usually just choosing which faction of the ruling class you want to support. This is the sort of situation where the institutions themselves are the problem, and you aren't going to fix any of the biggest issues through operating within those institutions.
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Jul 11, 2021 04:50
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Ytlaya posted:Voting is the sort of thing where there's not really a big enough difference between doing or not doing it for it to make sense for someone to get worked up about it (or to care what other people do). Someone can decide for themselves what makes sense for them. Well, you're overlooking voting's value as a psychological palliative, one of the very few available to the politically active middle class in the United States. I think a lot of the rancor directed at people who advocate not voting isn't the effect that not voting will have on society, but that it attacks the legitimacy of the image of voting as a safety blanket to reassure each individual voter that they have done something significant for the good of society.
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Jul 11, 2021 04:59
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i think if voting didnt matter people wouldnt try so hard to stop you doing it
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Jul 11, 2021 05:00
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Ytlaya posted:Voting is the sort of thing where there's not really a big enough difference between doing or not doing it for it to make sense for someone to get worked up about it (or to care what other people do). Someone can decide for themselves what makes sense for them. Similar to above, what on earth does this have to do with like comptroller elections or city councils?
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Jul 11, 2021 05:11
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For me, local initiatives and local positions that can be attained by people who don’t have giant bankrolls (yet) matter. But US voting seems like a set of systems that are intentionally set up to fail so it’s hard for me to ever get worked up about people not voting. If we had compulsory voting and a variety of days to do it on and a variety of means to do it, voting would feel like an important part of the country to me, but it’s not so it doesn’t. The things we’d need to do now to protect voting like packing the Supreme Court and killing the filibuster are judged to be uncouth and would be inconvenient to our current generation of noble poet-warrior millionaire elderly overlords, so it’s hard for me to imagine it ever happening given it is not going to get any easier from here on out. And that’s all separate from the problem of who we get to vote on. Right now that (for the most part) seems to be determined by money, resume, rhetoric and being in the right good-ole-boys/folks network. I don’t see any reason why the people in power would ever want to level the playing field or any reasons for voters to suddenly start caring about consistency/honesty so that side of it feels kinda pointless too.
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Jul 11, 2021 05:18
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i think it's hard to say voting on a national level doesn't matter after the way georgia shifted in the presidential and senatorial races. obviously your single vote wasn't the single difference maker, but the beauty of a mass movement is coming together with your comrades and flexing the immense power that emerges from the aggregate when you unite. if you decide to scab and break a picket line, the strike won't live or day based on your single decision, but i don't think many in this thread would contend that striking is pointless on an individual level. i guess it is easier to hold this position in a state where vote by mail makes things very painless. the actual process of voting outside of choosing candidates takes me about half an hour each election tops and i agree with other posters that local elections are very important in terms of impact on your wellbeing and the wellbeing of your community, but in my experience they can be difficult to navigate. very often the pool of candidates is shallow, their positions and priorities are even more opaque than the state or national level, and there are much fewer outside resources like detailed voting records and third party endorsements, which makes due diligence in choosing a candidate orders of magnitude harder
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Jul 11, 2021 06:09
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| # ? May 4, 2024 10:01 |
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If it did they'd make it illegal OP
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Jul 11, 2021 06:32
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