US Voting - Discussion and the Lesser of Evils

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Voting - Discussion and the Lesser of Evils

Does Voting Matter This poll is closed.
Yes	91	28.44%
No	133	41.56%
Jeb	59	18.44%
Bernie	37	11.56%
Total:	320 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

How about this: instead of writing off my good faith effort to explain why I feel like my vote doesn't matter as "rambling [...] bullshit," you ask how the blue team might win my vote back?

# ? Jul 11, 2021 18:46

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# ? May 4, 2024 15:59

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

Space Gopher posted:

You're still missing the point.

Coming into the "does voting matter" thread and jumping into the discussion talking only about voting as an individual action is a libertarian framing. Talking about it as collective action is a Marxist framing.

Whichever of the two you pick, the answer to the thread title is inevitable once you've made that decision. If you're a libertarian who believes individual action by sufficiently-strong people is the only important thing, then voting doesn't matter - your mighty individual will is diluted by the sheep. If you're a Marxist who believes in collective action, then voting does matter, as long as the outcome of elections matters. We know that WampaLord does agree with that, because they believe that voting matters if you're the single vote to flip the whole thing.

Of course, there are other ways to look at the whole situation - for example, someone could just view politics as a spectator sport, so voting doesn't matter to them personally as long as they get to yell at people about being wrong. In that case, voting would be a bad move, because then you'd be opening yourself to criticism by tying yourself to someone who might be wrong in the future. But, I'm going to post in good faith and assume that nobody here is that kind of pointless poo poo-stirrer.

You're making a great argument for campaigning mattering, but one vote is still one vote.

If you want to make your one individual vote a "collective action", then go knock on doors and try to convince other voters to vote your way, but that's way above and beyond just voting your one vote, which appears to be what this thread is about though it's hard to tell given that the OP is "uspol spillover thread."

But of course, why take advice from me, I'm actually Ayn Rand resurrected, disguised as a lefty on a dying comedy forum.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 18:51

navigation: Sep 30, 2009

7c Nickel posted:

What's there to respond to?

It was a bunch of rambly bullshit about not wanting people to judge you or you'll vote to run us off a cliff. The fact that you consider the difference between the smallest possible majority and a supermajority a matter of semantics was just the cherry on top.

Hey uh, maybe the people who actually do the running us off the cliff (the �bad team�) are better people to blame rather than a disaffected voter? Why is judgement and lecturing such a common tool for �encouraging� voter engagement, rather than making direct promises on how a politician will improve your life and the lives of the people you care about?

The fact that politicians do a really lovely job at that last part these days (and prefer to threaten us instead) is not the fault of the voter.

navigation fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jul 11, 2021

# ? Jul 11, 2021 18:53

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Stringent posted:

I'd posit that voter suppression is the gop version of access to healthcare. A lot of sturm und drang to keep the partisans happy and very little to show for it. Obviously they're happy with whatever wins they can get, but the current system is working just fine for them so it's mostly just for show.

The current system is working fine for them? They went from having 3 branches of the government to losing the presidency and both houses of congress. I don't think that counts as working fine to literally anyone on either side.

VitalSigns posted:

Voting doesn't matter but neither does posting and you do that.

If you're not voting in order to own the libs, consider that while they get annoyed with you and call you a baby if you don't vote, they get white-hot mad if you vote third party. They kinda enjoy sneering at people who are 'too stupid' to vote and it lets them rationalize their losses away as the fault of the lazy and stupid hoi polloi who are too dumb to figure out voting, but man oh man do they hate third-party votes because those come from people who are capable of voting and affirmatively took away a vote that they believe is theirs by divine right. It's even funnier if the third party votes exceed the difference between the two major party candidates.

i could truly care less who you vote for, i'm just happy you vote

# ? Jul 11, 2021 18:53

Probably Magic: Oct 9, 2012; Looking cute, feeling cute.

7c Nickel posted:

What's there to respond to?

It was a bunch of rambly bullshit about not wanting people to judge you or you'll vote to run us off a cliff. The fact that you consider the difference between the smallest possible majority and a supermajority a matter of semantics was just the cherry on top.

The smallest possible majority of having the House, Senate, and Presidency? The Republicans have done more with far less.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:00

7c Nickel: Apr 27, 2008

Cloaked posted:

Hey uh, maybe the people who actually do the running is off the cliff (the �bad team�) are better people to blame rather than a disaffected voter? Why is judgement and lecturing such a common tool for �encouraging� voter engagement, rather than making direct promises on how a politician will improve your life and the lives of the people you care about?

The fact that politicians do a really lovely job at that last part these days (and prefer to threaten us instead) is not the fault of the voter.

If they're voting to run off the cliff then they're one of "the people who actually do the running is off the cliff". Voters aren't separate from the people and things they vote for.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:03

James Garfield: May 5, 2012; Am I a manipulative abuser in real life, or do I just roleplay one on the Internet for fun? You decide!

Probably Magic posted:

The smallest possible majority of having the House, Senate, and Presidency? The Republicans have done more with far less.

Where do you live? I live on Earth and here the Republicans couldn't pass their number one legislative priority in 2017 with 240 representatives and 52 senators.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:09

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

If voting didn't matter the ghouls wouldn't be trying so hard to keep you from doing it. Think, McFly. Think!

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:13

camoseven: Dec 30, 2005; RODOLPHONE RINGIN'

No. Next question.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:15

Egg Moron: Jul 21, 2003; the dreams of the delighting void

JonathonSpectre posted:

George W. Bush won Florida in 2000 by like 537 (?) votes. Yes, it's not one vote, but man. What a catastrophe.

The failure of subsequent Democrat administrations to ameliorate the myriad of Bush era catastrophes makes me feel more secure in my understanding that voting doesn't matter.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:16

is pepsi ok: Oct 23, 2002

GABA ghoul posted:

If voting didn't matter the ghouls wouldn't be trying so hard to keep you from doing it. Think, McFly. Think!

The two parties represent different capitalist industries and different cultural values so they still have an incentive to compete with one another, but they are both still dictatorships of the bourgeois so the vast majority of outcomes re: wealth inequality, climate change, working conditions, healthcare, imperialism, policing, tax rates, welfare, etc. remain the same.

I am begging you people to understand that class doesn't mean how much a person makes.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:27

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

e: vvv fair enough

Lib and let die fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jul 11, 2021

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:29

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

e: ^ty

Lib and let die posted:

How about this: instead of writing off my good faith effort to explain why I feel like my vote doesn't matter as "rambling [...] bullshit," you ask how the blue team might win my vote back?

please don't make this thread about you and whatever it is you choose to do with your vote, it really is not about that

Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jul 11, 2021

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:33

Probably Magic: Oct 9, 2012; Looking cute, feeling cute.

James Garfield posted:

Where do you live? I live on Earth and here the Republicans couldn't pass their number one legislative priority in 2017 with 240 representatives and 52 senators.

Maybe you just didn't understand what the Republicans number one legislative priority was. Because those tax cuts passed just fine.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:38

Space Gopher: Jul 31, 2006; BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

WampaLord posted:

You're making a great argument for campaigning mattering, but one vote is still one vote.

If you want to make your one individual vote a "collective action", then go knock on doors and try to convince other voters to vote your way, but that's way above and beyond just voting your one vote, which appears to be what this thread is about though it's hard to tell given that the OP is "uspol spillover thread."

But of course, why take advice from me, I'm actually Ayn Rand resurrected, disguised as a lefty on a dying comedy forum.

Campaigning is the process of convincing individuals to change their voting behavior - to exercise their one vote differently.

If we're focusing only on individual behavior, and individual votes don't matter (outside of the spectacularly narrow "otherwise it'd be a tie" scenario) then how could campaigning matter?

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:38

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

I dont think voting matters (see last post), but the parties still have reason to compete because:

quote:

- Decides who gets the attention of the interest groups and lobbyists (and by extension their favors)

- Decides which party will be more resistant to futile attempts to redirect the party by younger, less cynical representatives

You're not getting sweet meals and gifts if you dont have any power.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:38

James Garfield: May 5, 2012; Am I a manipulative abuser in real life, or do I just roleplay one on the Internet for fun? You decide!

Probably Magic posted:

Maybe you just didn't understand what the Republicans number one legislative priority was. Because those tax cuts passed just fine.

If the tax cut were a higher priority than ACA repeal, Republicans would have introduced it in the house before the ACA repeal failed. Come on, this is easy stuff.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:46

navigation: Sep 30, 2009

7c Nickel posted:

If they're voting to run off the cliff then they're one of "the people who actually do the running is off the cliff". Voters aren't separate from the people and things they vote for.

If you�re not able to acknowledge the difference in power between a voter and a politician I think you�ll have a hard time engaging in this conversation in a productive way.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:47

Probably Magic: Oct 9, 2012; Looking cute, feeling cute.

James Garfield posted:

If the tax cut were a higher priority than ACA repeal, Republicans would have introduced it in the house before the ACA repeal failed. Come on, this is easy stuff.

I'm guessing the tax cuts passing while the ACA repeal didn't shows what the bigger priority was, if we're going by easy stuff. But this is a pedantic argue on both fronts anyway - the point is, the Democrats aren't as powerless as they make themselves out to be and voting for them does not really protect you from the conservatives.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 19:57

Kavros: May 18, 2011; sleep sleep sleep
fly fly post post
sleep sleep sleep

Does voting matter, a private conversation in three parts:

First, I think of how long ago I would not have been allowed to vote, what people were trying to keep us from voting, and what we had to do to get the vote.

Second, I think about who's actively overjoyed to watch parts of the left tangle the rest of the left in arguments not to vote. Who this actively pleases to watch them try to convince other leftists of the pointlessness of voting. Who's probably in on it in an astoundingly easy turfing operation.

Third, I shudder at all of that, and I vote.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 20:19

James Garfield: May 5, 2012; Am I a manipulative abuser in real life, or do I just roleplay one on the Internet for fun? You decide!

Probably Magic posted:

I'm guessing the tax cuts passing while the ACA repeal didn't shows what the bigger priority was, if we're going by easy stuff

That would be true if you thought Republican leadership were omnipotent entities who could freely make their members vote as they wanted. But if you thought that you wouldn't need rationalizations for why the big news item bill they introduced right after the president took office wasn't their priority.

Probably Magic posted:

the point is, the Democrats aren't as powerless as they make themselves out to be and voting for them does not really protect you from the conservatives.

I personally vote and campaign for Democrats because I want them to win. If you don't want Democrats to win I agree, there's no reason to vote for them.

I don't think it makes sense to complain about Republicans winning when you didn't vote for their opponent, though.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 20:29

How are u: May 19, 2005; by Azathoth

camoseven posted:

No. Next question.

Yes, actually.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 20:30

Jeff Fatwood: Jun 17, 2013

Lib and let die posted:

I can't speak for anyone else here, but part of the absolutely maddening frustration I have is that for most of my life, this is the refrain I've been hearing. When Gore ran, I was old enough to have enough of an understanding to enjoy the daily show, but wasn't old enough to vote. I was definitely that annoying kid that went around and told all the adults I knew that they should vote for Gore because I was gonna have to deal with the climatological consequences of that election for longer than they would (and was, ironically in retrospect, confused by my uncle's stalwart refusal to even begin to engage in the political system). I don't think it's controversial to say that he ran, and won, on a platform that strongly focused on environmental issues and had it stolen from him by a corrupt electoral and court system - but it's the earliest time I can remember "vote blue or you're voting to let the red guys do X bad thing!" - without looking it up I want to say maybe Nader or Dole was the 3rd party candidate with the "biggest" following that go round? Whoever it was, the idea that you're throwing away your vote and giving the bad guys an advantage was alive and well and something that even I was pushing.

When it came to Obama or McCain I didn't really think too much about it. I was working a lot and doing a lot of drugs and knew that one guy said we should close the torture camps and pull out of the forever wars and the other guy was a big standard "kill em all let God sort em out" holy warmonger and I don't even think I cared enough to vote at all. Lotta coke. Lotta weed. Lotta 151. Rhode Island almost always ends up going to the blue party candidate anyway so I don't think that mathematically if some stoner pot napped his way through the day and forgot to vote or not mattered. We got Obama, we're still at war in Afghanistan, and gitmo is still open - even if I had voted for the campaign that aligned with my anti-war stance, that successful campaign didn't result in an anti-war administration. Despite this, the messaging of "not voting for the blue guy means you support forever wars because a vote for green or moose or the guy with a boot on his head is a vote for the red guy!" was strong.

I'm pretty sure I hosed up my 2016 vote and invalidated it (another interesting prism of 'does voting matter' that should probably be explored at some point) in the process of moving to Florida so my vote literally didn't matter - but I don't think I really need to dig deep to dredge up much of the sheer amount of hand-wringing and holier-than-thou posting/publishing admonishing anyone even considering voting 3rd party or casting a protest vote for Bernie or Karl Marx or whatever being willing to hand the country over to Donald "Literally Adolf von Antichrist Hitlersatan" Trump was plastered wall-to-wall outside of anywhere that wasn't an out-and-out red party propaganda outlet or been so thoroughly smeared as such (or as outright enemy nation-state actors) that five and a half years after the election itself, those voters are still bearing the blame of handing the election over to the evil orange red man.

For roundabout twenty years now, I've been in varying sides of the blue team talking point of "a vote for anyone but my guy is a vote for the bad guy" and as someone who is staunchly anti-war, staunchly pro-labor, staunchly pro-socialized healthcare, staunchly pro-diversity, staunchly pro-criminal justice reform, staunchly anti-fascist, yada yada yada, to be accused of being in line with, sympathetic to, or outright supportive of a red party that is loudly and proudly NONE of those things ends up feeling like I'm being gaslit. I don't like being gaslit. Nobody likes being gaslit.

If you can't make an argument for voting that isn't 'but look how bad the other guy is', then you don't have a strong argument, and you're walking an extremely thin line that borders on psychological abuse.

In my view of it, the blue team should count its blessings that most of the spite voters it generates by alienation would rather sit at home or vote green on election day rather than vote for the red team out of spite alone. If a vote for a green party candidate is a vote for the red party candidate then a vote for the red party candidate must carry the weight of two votes for the red party candidate, right?

If the party apparatus wants people to think their vote matters, then the party should start delivering on the promises that got them votes. They've by and large delivered half promises and means-tested gestures that leave large swathes of population behind and people are increasingly becoming more and more disillusioned. That the party has such a hard time passing legislation now with a blue party supermajority isn't going to help that image imo.

This was a proread.

My votes have never mattered.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 20:35

camoseven: Dec 30, 2005; RODOLPHONE RINGIN'

How are u posted:

Yes, actually.

Shut up moron

# ? Jul 11, 2021 20:41

Probably Magic: Oct 9, 2012; Looking cute, feeling cute.

James Garfield posted:

That would be true if you thought Republican leadership were omnipotent entities who could freely make their members vote as they wanted. But if you thought that you wouldn't need rationalizations for why the big news item bill they introduced right after the president took office wasn't their priority.

I personally vote and campaign for Democrats because I want them to win. If you don't want Democrats to win I agree, there's no reason to vote for them.

I don't think it makes sense to complain about Republicans winning when you didn't vote for their opponent, though.

What is a Democrat, James Garfield. What do you think a Democrat is.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 20:42

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

In my country I have been able to vote in every election since about 2010 I think? Every single time I have voted it has not mattered. For every single time I have voted the person/ event / party I have voted for has not gotten anywhere close to power.

I will continue to vote, but I have a great deal of understanding towards people who see all of this decide "nah, gently caress it".

# ? Jul 11, 2021 20:48

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

Voting has led to the best chance America has from avoiding disaster; not voting would only increase the odds of disaster and letting an increasingly insane neoreactionary party gain permanent power. There is no end goal; no point in which letting that happen will eventually result in better things happening; because China is proving you can have a startling sophisticated totalitarian state that is able to control all aspects of its citizens lives and if the United States were to suddenly model itself on totalitarianism the game is lost forever, like its 1984 except in 20-something. 2084?

Voting is also not just for getting things that you want; I think that is perhaps a somewhat selfish way of looking at the franchise. Voting is about civic participation and responsibility in a world where you're no longer able to make significant changes by yourself in your little fiefdom. A democracy isn't about merely enacting the will of the people, but about trying to reach some kind of consensus between different interest groups of which "the people" are themselves split into varieties of interest groups. It's about making your opinion known so that even if it isn't listened to now it is still a part of the process. Because we are dealing with a large society, everything has to come about through processes; and the process need to be consistent and stable; sometimes it might do bad things, sometimes it might do good things; but either way the process occurred by which everyone put in their inputs and the process provided an output that determines something about the direction of society.

Finally I think its clear voting matters, voting matters a lot or else Republicans wouldn't be trying to suppress the vote and doubling down on such measures making them even more extreme in the wake of 2020; Republicans and democrats wouldn't be gerrymandering the regions under their control if how people voted didn't matter. Various media outlets wouldn't be working so far to steer consensus if voting didn't matter.

If Dems had been short 1 Senator the degree in which the US today would be so much worse off would be insane. No cabinet ministers, no reconciliation covid relief bill, Schumer wouldn't be able to bring bills to a vote; it would be insanity; thank god Georgia decided that their vote did matter.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 20:50

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

Lib and let die posted:

I can't speak for anyone else here, but part of the absolutely maddening frustration I have is that for most of my life, this is the refrain I've been hearing. When Gore ran, I was old enough to have enough of an understanding to enjoy the daily show, but wasn't old enough to vote. I was definitely that annoying kid that went around and told all the adults I knew that they should vote for Gore because I was gonna have to deal with the climatological consequences of that election for longer than they would (and was, ironically in retrospect, confused by my uncle's stalwart refusal to even begin to engage in the political system). I don't think it's controversial to say that he ran, and won, on a platform that strongly focused on environmental issues and had it stolen from him by a corrupt electoral and court system - but it's the earliest time I can remember "vote blue or you're voting to let the red guys do X bad thing!" - without looking it up I want to say maybe Nader or Dole was the 3rd party candidate with the "biggest" following that go round? Whoever it was, the idea that you're throwing away your vote and giving the bad guys an advantage was alive and well and something that even I was pushing.

When it came to Obama or McCain I didn't really think too much about it. I was working a lot and doing a lot of drugs and knew that one guy said we should close the torture camps and pull out of the forever wars and the other guy was a big standard "kill em all let God sort em out" holy warmonger and I don't even think I cared enough to vote at all. Lotta coke. Lotta weed. Lotta 151. Rhode Island almost always ends up going to the blue party candidate anyway so I don't think that mathematically if some stoner pot napped his way through the day and forgot to vote or not mattered. We got Obama, we're still at war in Afghanistan, and gitmo is still open - even if I had voted for the campaign that aligned with my anti-war stance, that successful campaign didn't result in an anti-war administration. Despite this, the messaging of "not voting for the blue guy means you support forever wars because a vote for green or moose or the guy with a boot on his head is a vote for the red guy!" was strong.

I'm pretty sure I hosed up my 2016 vote and invalidated it (another interesting prism of 'does voting matter' that should probably be explored at some point) in the process of moving to Florida so my vote literally didn't matter - but I don't think I really need to dig deep to dredge up much of the sheer amount of hand-wringing and holier-than-thou posting/publishing admonishing anyone even considering voting 3rd party or casting a protest vote for Bernie or Karl Marx or whatever being willing to hand the country over to Donald "Literally Adolf von Antichrist Hitlersatan" Trump was plastered wall-to-wall outside of anywhere that wasn't an out-and-out red party propaganda outlet or been so thoroughly smeared as such (or as outright enemy nation-state actors) that five and a half years after the election itself, those voters are still bearing the blame of handing the election over to the evil orange red man.

For roundabout twenty years now, I've been in varying sides of the blue team talking point of "a vote for anyone but my guy is a vote for the bad guy" and as someone who is staunchly anti-war, staunchly pro-labor, staunchly pro-socialized healthcare, staunchly pro-diversity, staunchly pro-criminal justice reform, staunchly anti-fascist, yada yada yada, to be accused of being in line with, sympathetic to, or outright supportive of a red party that is loudly and proudly NONE of those things ends up feeling like I'm being gaslit. I don't like being gaslit. Nobody likes being gaslit.

If you can't make an argument for voting that isn't 'but look how bad the other guy is', then you don't have a strong argument, and you're walking an extremely thin line that borders on psychological abuse.

In my view of it, the blue team should count its blessings that most of the spite voters it generates by alienation would rather sit at home or vote green on election day rather than vote for the red team out of spite alone. If a vote for a green party candidate is a vote for the red party candidate then a vote for the red party candidate must carry the weight of two votes for the red party candidate, right?

If the party apparatus wants people to think their vote matters, then the party should start delivering on the promises that got them votes. They've by and large delivered half promises and means-tested gestures that leave large swathes of population behind and people are increasingly becoming more and more disillusioned. That the party has such a hard time passing legislation now with a blue party supermajority isn't going to help that image imo.

Serious question, have you been diagnosed with depression? All these CSPAM posts read like the same textbook all-or-nothing cognitive distortion. I either get everything I wanted out of this election or the entire system is worthless and needs to be burned down. It's literally a brain problem that pervades every aspect of a person's thinking

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Jul 11, 2021 20:51

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

Space Gopher posted:

individual action by sufficiently-strong people

Found the thing that no one else ever said

# ? Jul 11, 2021 20:54

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

GABA ghoul posted:

Serious question, have you been diagnosed with depression? All these CSPAM posts read like the same textbook all-or-nothing cognitive distortion. I either get everything I wanted out of this election or the entire system is worthless and needs to be burned down. It's literally a brain problem that pervades every aspect of a person's thinking

I'm going to say that, as someone with depression, this is kind of a bad idea?

I don't think describing people we disagree with as having mental health issues is particularly healthy is what I am getting at.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 20:55

camoseven: Dec 30, 2005; RODOLPHONE RINGIN'

GABA ghoul posted:

Serious question, have you been diagnosed with depression? All these CSPAM posts read like the same textbook all-or-nothing cognitive distortion. I either get everything I wanted out of this election or the entire system is worthless and needs to be burned down. It's literally a brain problem that pervades every aspect of a person's thinking

gently caress off rear end in a top hat

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Jul 11, 2021 20:57

Jeff Fatwood: Jun 17, 2013

GABA ghoul posted:

Serious question, have you been diagnosed with depression? All these CSPAM posts read like the same textbook all-or-nothing cognitive distortion. I either get everything I wanted out of this election or the entire system is worthless and needs to be burned down. It's literally a brain problem that pervades every aspect of a person's thinking

Jesus loving christ

# ? Jul 11, 2021 21:00

Raere: Dec 13, 2007

The level of privilege that people display when they say that voting doesn't matter, or that both parties are the same actually, is astounding to me. For me and millions of other queer people, especially trans people, your votes, and the party in power, absolutely matter. One party wants to revoke our rights and see us disappear from the face of the earth, the other party supports us and wants to expand our rights. It must be a wonderful feeling to be a cis het person staying home from the polls because nothing's going to change in your personal life either way, so why bother. This is true not only at the federal level, but state and local too. Where do you think the bathroom bills, genital inspection before school sports bills, et al are coming from? Cities and states, where your numerically your vote matters even more. I would encourage people with this mindset to think about vulnerable people in different circumstances than their own when they decide to stay home.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 21:00

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

Josef bugman posted:

I'm going to say that, as someone with depression, this is kind of a bad idea?

I don't think describing people we disagree with as having mental health issues is particularly healthy is what I am getting at.

How else would you explain CSPAM except with mental illness?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Jul 11, 2021 21:03

James Garfield: May 5, 2012; Am I a manipulative abuser in real life, or do I just roleplay one on the Internet for fun? You decide!

Probably Magic posted:

What is a Democrat, James Garfield. What do you think a Democrat is.

Well, me, for one.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 21:04

is pepsi ok: Oct 23, 2002

I voted to end DST in Florida, and it passed, and it was never implemented.

I voted to give felons the right to vote, and it passed, so they added a law requiring felons to pay any fees and debts before their rights were restored, which was in direct opposition to the ballot measure that we passed.

I voted for Andrew Gillum in the 2018 gubernatorial primary because he was the only candidate who supported M4A. As soon as he secured the nomination he abandoned it.

I voted for Dean Trantalis because he ran on creating badly needed public transportation in our city. One he won he killed a proposed street car program, tried to replace it with subsidized uber rides, and is now taking a bid from the Boring company to drill tunnels in the goddamn swamp.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 21:06

Probably Magic: Oct 9, 2012; Looking cute, feeling cute.

Losing or not getting the ideal situation is not my problem with current American electoralism. I root for Kansas Jayhawks football, I have no problem with losing. There are parts of Bernie's platform that disappoint me, that did not stop me from voting him. It's knowing my vote doesn't matter that bothers me. I imagine many conservatives hate this system too, as we are not in their theocratic Gault's Gulch utopia either. Universally popular programs don't get passed. We don't have a democracy, and voting suppression is merely an attempt to enshrine that status quo rather than introduce a new one.

I like voting. I like the research, I like the sense of civic responsibility. But does it matter? In 2004, I couldn't vote, but I bemoaned Dubya likely starting three more wars his second term. He didn't. You know who did? The guy who I enthusiastically voted twice for. The humiliation of that makes me leery of rubberstamping anything this rotten empire puts before me.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 21:06

Jeff Fatwood: Jun 17, 2013

GABA ghoul posted:

How else would you explain CSPAM except with mental illness?

Based on your two posts, only explanation I can come up for you is sociopathy. gently caress off.

# ? Jul 11, 2021 21:08

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

is pepsi ok posted:

I voted for Dean Trantalis because he ran on creating badly needed public transportation in our city. One he won he killed a proposed street car program, tried to replace it with subsidized uber rides, and is now taking a bid from the Boring company to drill tunnels in the goddamn swamp.

Is this the one where the plan is literally to buy rides in teslas for like $5-8 (it's $2 cheaper than an uber!!!) cuz lmao I heard about this and it's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Even by politics standards. Even by florida politics standards.

like why can't we just have busses, maybe tesla could make a bus and we could sell monthly passes and so on

# ? Jul 11, 2021 21:10

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# ? May 4, 2024 15:59

How are u: May 19, 2005; by Azathoth

is pepsi ok posted:

I voted to end DST in Florida, and it passed, and it was never implemented.

I voted to give felons the right to vote, and it passed, so they added a law requiring felons to pay any fees and debts before their rights were restored, which was in direct opposition to the ballot measure that we passed.

I voted for Andrew Gillum in the 2018 gubernatorial primary because he was the only candidate who supported M4A. As soon as he secured the nomination he abandoned it.

I voted for Dean Trantalis because he ran on creating badly needed public transportation in our city. One he won he killed a proposed street car program, tried to replace it with subsidized uber rides, and is now taking a bid from the Boring company to drill tunnels in the goddamn swamp.

So are you done with voting?

# ? Jul 11, 2021 21:13

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Voting - Discussion and the Lesser of Evils

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