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Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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There's a lot of jank in this game, and I sure hope it's gonna get some updates. But despite that all, the core battle gameplay feels good, so it's got a lot of promise.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to rest my eyes after a couple hours of peering through all those ultra-heavy effects trying to keep track of everything.

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Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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a fatguy baldspot posted:

This game is so weird. I’m just a few missions in, is it going to teach me how to use the ship builder at some point. How do I get more money. Should my repairs be taking 50+ hours

No, it will never teach you the ship builder.

After the prologue is over, you'll be able to capture enemy transports or scavenge parts from enemy ships you destroy.

Yes, it's real easy for those repair times to pile up to dangerous levels, especially if your bigger ships get battered. So far, I've been doing partial repairs at each city, slowly building my ships back up over time, and if one gets too badly mangled I'll just sell it. You can take more time to repair early on, but once the strike groups start getting close, spending a ton of time in one place becomes very dangerous.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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deep dish peat moss posted:

All ship parts have a "Durability" which degrades over time as it takes damage. Ship parts appearing yellow/red in the ship editor are not doing so due to damage, but due to their low durability. When a part's durability is low, replacing it is the only option - you can't just repair the same part over and over.

Repairing never repairs durability, it restores HP to those parts, but they keep the same durability

It sounds like what you're seeing here is that some parts have lowered durability and look 'broken' (they're red/orange/yellow) but they're not actually broken, they're fully functional - they just have low HP because of the low durability. Replacing them with new store bought parts would give you full durability, which the repair slider seems to do only if the parts are straight up blown up, removed, or completely run out of durability.

Manually remove all red (/orange/yellow) parts from your ship before clicking the repair button, this will make the repair button replace them with new ones which should fix all of your problems.

As far as I can tell, this isn't true. At the very least, it goes completely against what the manual says. Durability = HP, and damaged (yellow/red) parts can be repaired in the shipworks by individually right-clicking them. The repair slider is supposed to do that too, but it seems wonky. You can also leave the damaged parts be, but they'll have a penalty to their performance based on the severity of the damage, so you might want to prioritize fixing some parts over others.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Womyn Capote posted:

I'm definitely missing something, are there any good video tutorials for the map/radar stuff? I'm trying to figure out how to not run out of money so quickly just buying fuel at every stop. I know the advice was to split up my fleet but when I leave my slower ships behind it just turns dangerous there and I have to move them anyway? I don't see how that saves me on fuel.

Also, I have no idea what to do once I get an elint warning it always ends up with missiles coming after me and I can't shake them.

Are you keeping your radar off most of the time? ELINT is a radar detector, which tells you where enemies with radar are...but the enemies have ELINT too, and if they're close enough that you're getting ELINT warnings, they're also close enough for their own ELINTs to pick up your radars. If your radar is running, they'll be able to easily track you using ELINT.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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I built an armored brick in the shipworks to mess around with, and it seems like if you have a heavily-armored ship, more maneuverable AI ships will go well out of their way to target weak points in the armor.

In fact, they try too hard, to the point where it can be exploited. They kept trying to squeeze beneath my low-flying brick to get at the weaker bottom armor...only to be sitting ducks for my guns, because they were hugging the ground so much that they could barely maneuver. The smaller and faster the enemy ship, the more likely it was to willingly pin itself between heavy weaponry and a hard place.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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deep dish peat moss posted:

significantly more nimble and faster than the Lightning

Is the pilot ever conscious?

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Does anyone know what influences the chance of the fire suppression working? There's clearly something inherent to ship design that affects the chance, because it usually works on the stock ships, but literally never ever actually extinguishes fires on my armored brick no matter how many charges I pop.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Jamsque posted:

I think it is location based: If the fuel tank that is burning is not close enough to any of your fire suppression units, it will keep burning no matter how many times you pop the extinguishers.

Ah, that makes sense. Looking at the stock ships, I think you're right - all the big ships have most of their fire suppressor systems placed right next to the fuel tanks.

Meanwhile, my custom designs have them squeezed in randomly near the edges, and the offending ship doesn't have FSSes anywhere near the fuel tanks. Which is a pain in the rear end, since the game seemingly doesn't let you move multiple parts at once, and therefore I'm going to have to pull this entire ship apart one piece at a time to fix the issue.



This thing takes one hell of a beating as long as it doesn't catch fire, and can strip off enemy armor in a couple good focused volleys with its six 130mm guns and then mulch the insides with six CIWS guns.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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I tried out the ship bombs a bit in the ship builder and found them kinda lacking for ship-to-ship combat. They're a pain to aim and use effectively, even against large ships that are slow to maneuver, but they don't seem to hit noticeably harder than a missile so they're not really worth the effort.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Friction posted:

Hah, love the mad 80s shoulders. About the APS. Does it really do much at all, or don’t the stock ships just have enough installed?

Each one will stop one artillery shell or missile that probably would've hit you otherwise, and they don't weigh that much. So they're best suited for a frail, dodgy ship that can't withstand much damage: if you slip up or get overwhelmed by shells, an APS will let you soak one free hit.

AI ships don't see much benefit since they don't really actively try to dodge, but it's perfect for a player Lightning. Though the downside is that it's quite expensive and doesn't often show up in shops, so you probably can't rely on having a ton of them in the campaign.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Atlanton posted:

I've never understood the point of the IR bearing readout. If I point it towards the IR contact, a bunch of dots start streaming down which confirms there's something in that direction I guess?

It helps you find stuff that's outside of visual range, without having to use your radar and reveal your position. Due to its short range, I've mostly found it useful on offense: if I know basically where something is and want to sneak up on it without using radar for a surprise attack, the IR scanner will help me fine-tune and find the exact position.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Mr. Crow posted:

How do I improve moral?

I already know how to crush it :v:

I've seen morale improve just from letting the ships rest in a city for a while.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Someone on Twitch told me that their fundamental likes/dislikes won't change, but the intensity of those likes/dislikes can change from run to run. A religious Tarkhan will always be religious, but whether they're mildly religious or extremely religious is randomized.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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I do have a lot of fun messing around in the ship builder, at least. My latest project is a dodgy ship with 4.7 TWR and twelve 57mm vulcans, the outcome of an experiment to see just how effective a bunch of vulcans can be.



Obviously not really campaign-ready with consumption like that, but it's a lot more effective than I expected on the test range. Turns out even 57mms will chew right through an armor plate if you put enough bullets in the same area. And with this many guns, just one full clip is enough to punch right through a large ship's armor and start chewing up its juicy insides. It's sometimes tricky to line up that focused fire since it can't afford to take many hits, but being able to shoot down artillery shells means it doesn't have to zip around quite as much as a Lightning does.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Also, it's not entirely obvious from the UI, but if you win a fight and salvage the enemy fuel tanks, it'll stay available on the map as a refueling spot until you've completely taken whatever fuel was left in their tanks. It takes just as long as refueling in a city, so you'll need to sit there a while to take the fuel, but if you leave without taking it all, the fuel will remain available on the map and you can send ships back to those spots later to take the rest of it.

Between that and being able to sell salvage, it can really pay off having a tough ship that wins fights even if the fuel economy is a bit crap.

Especially if it can take a strike group in close combat - since strike groups broadcast their position via ELINT, it's entirely possible to bait them in and ambush them without ever having to deal with their cruise missiles, and they tend to give pretty valuable salvage since they're big well-armed ships with plenty of missiles and expensive electronics.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Marzzle posted:

re missiles: you can also land to reduce your radar profile but if they're in visual range they're gonna get you anyway

Does this happen if you airstrike the SG to defeat? I feel like I don't see spots from it but jets don't really give the player visual confirmation of anything so maybe I'm just missing the spots. It's enough of an issue that I try to finish off a SG with an actual ship once I've weakened it with jets but jets seem to be the ultimate SG killer.

I dunno; I've never used carriers and hardly use missiles. I've got a custom ship with 2.5 layers of armor and a bunch of vulcans and mid-caliber artillery, and that's really all it takes to wipe an entire strike group without taking serious damage.

To avoid cruise missiles, I just lure the strike group in and ambush them. I let a bait ship get sighted and reported while multiple Skylark scouts and a SG-killer fleet lurk in the desert ahead of it. When a SG is detected, the bait ship moves off to the side before it enters cruise missile range, while my other fleets work to narrow down the SG's approximate bearing and position using ELINT from different directions. It takes a bit of fumbling around, but I've been able to catch SGs between cities with purely passive scanning and not get a single missile sent my way.

Now, the real trouble is if two SGs turn up at the same time and the second one comes in before I can get everything in good condition for a second ambush.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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cock hero flux posted:

57mm guns are the cheapest for a reason: they shoot too slowly to act as point defence but aren't big enough to actually hurt anything.

Rocket launchers aren't very good, they're expensive and their rockets can easily be shot down or avoided by enemies. And unlike artillery, the AI actually does try to shoot these down.

Zenith missiles are terrible on large ships, since they require gaps in the armour to fire out of, are expensive and single use, can easily be shot off and aren't that much more impressive than a salvo from a 180mm gun. Large ships also struggle to actually reach a good firing position for them. Zenith missiles could be of some use on small ships, but your smaller ships really shouldn't be fighting anything that would require them too often, and the money you spend on them would be better spent on AP ammo(which can't get shot off in combat and rendered useless, and which can be devastatingly powerful). Nadir missiles I haven't played around with too much because you can't use them in the shipworks editor.

Sprint AA missiles are kind of useless in combat. They, again, require gaps in the armour of large ships, which is never good, and small ships can just avoid missiles anyway. You're far better served by just mounting chainguns for missile and plane defence. They are very good for defending against cruise missiles and long range aircraft attacks, though, since your small ships are grounded and can't just avoid them. Having a few of these on a backline ship for missile defence purposes is probably good, but you shouldn't use them in an actual fight.

Bombs have to be on small ships, since big ones aren't nearly agile enough to use them. Bombs also have to be mounted on the outside to be used, and explode like ammo magazines if they get hit. This is bad. Taking a hit to the bomb bay is immediate death, and I don't find them nearly impressive enough to be worth the risk.

Unlike the 37mms, the 57mms are actually pretty impressive in large numbers. A single one won't do jack, but line up a few of them and they can actually do a lot of damage. If you get an opportunity to focus fire on one area, they can chew through a large ship's armor and mangle the insides in a single clip.

You can't put armor on top of missiles, but you can put it under missiles, so they're not as much of a liability as they look. They still need a gap somewhere to be able to connect to the rest of the ship, since crew and power connections can't pass through armor or large fuel tanks, but it only has to be a one-tile-wide gap. Still doesn't stop the missiles themselves from getting shot off, but it means they aren't a gaping hole in your defenses. Take a look at the Nomad in the ship builder for an example of what I mean - a lot of its parts are mounted outside the armor, with tiny gaps here and there to allow them to be controlled.

I'm not gonna defend rocket launchers or bombs, though, as far as I can tell they're just plain terrible.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Dalaram posted:

- Sudden strikes don't feel sudden enough. They are loading and firing on me the second I spawn in; there really ought to be them doing nothing, until I fire first, or a timer goes off. That also might make a dedicated rook-bomber more useful.

The real benefit of sudden strikes is when you get them on something bigger than an ordinary city garrison, such as if an enemy transport fleet or strike group happens to be parked at the city you're attacking. If you get a sudden strike, then when you destroy an enemy ship, the new one that spawns in to replace it will also start grounded, giving you a few precious seconds with only two enemies in the air. It's a big help when you get into a big fight.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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I tried rockets last night, and was kinda lukewarm on them? Compared to the 180mm guns, they have better fire rate and larger clip sizes, but they're harder to hit with because the projectiles behave differently from shells and are even easier to shoot down. In the end, I felt the same way about them as I do about the various 180mm guns: they hit harder than the smaller calibers, but not by enough to make up for all the extra trouble that comes with mounting and using them.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Chopstick Dystopia posted:

Whenever I fielded a Paladin in a real fight it somehow got absolutely cored. The middle of it just somehow disappearing after a relatively short time and it still flying but without most guns or most of the ship really. Not sure what was happening there but I lost all three Paladins this way so I will probably just sell them in the future.

The Paladin totes a rather heavy gun for its size, which means that it has to carry a lot of ammo loaders. Typically you want your ammo well-protected because it tends to explode violently if disturbed, but even with the ammo all concentrated at the middle of the ship, the Paladin is so small that enemy shots don't have to pierce very far to set it all off in a chain magazine explosion. Especially on the top and bottom of the ship where there's no armor.

The Intrepid is basically the same ship with smaller guns and fewer missiles...which means that it's faster, the gaps in its armor are smaller, and it's got a whole lot less highly explosive ammo at the center.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Polyakov posted:

I'm trying to work out the right approach to this game, I just clowned a strike group with a huge airstrike a little bit out of panic because it was coming for me, am I now going to get aggressively hunted by the others or will they largely return to where they came from once the alarm dies down or when they check out the alerted flags on the map and find I have left?

I guess the question is should I be aggressively trying to take out SGs whenever I think I can something I should be doing because the tutorial says keep clear at all costs and I worry I've aggrevated the enemy too much too early.

Taking out SGs is good if you can. The game tells you to avoid them because they're the nastiest foes you'll meet, and also because they like to soften you up with cruise missiles if they know where you are. But things do get a lot easier if you're able to consistently knock them out.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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I don't think there's any stock ship that doesn't have gaps in the armor somewhere for you to fire through. It's just that the Lightning spends so much of its time dodging that it usually can't really line up precision shots like that. If you upgun it to 130mm, it at least does a little better at punching through the armor, but that's still generally one of the Lightning's big weaknesses.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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A new update has gone live. Here's the update notice:

quote:

- Easy mode with free saves.
- Large rebalancing of armor.
- Numerous fixes related to missile interception and logic.

- Fixed crash during ship repair, after evacuation.
- Fixed a bug with the disappearance of transport in the player's squadron when meeting a missile / aircraft and the disappearance of transport after the death of an escort from missile strikes.
- Fixed a bug where missiles / planes did not attack single transport.
- Fixed a bug with explosions of objects on the map (for example, the explosion of an anti-missile and ballistic missile).
- Fixed the logic of aircraft returning to aircraft carriers: correct direction, correct position on the deck.
- The game no longer minimizes on ALT-TAB.
- An exploit in the editor has been fixed: when a module is attached to 2 hull parts, one could be removed and the module remained in place.
- The entire ship can no longer be rotated in the editor.
- Removing antennas by RMB.
- Fixed an error of incorrect operation of modules when connecting two large parts of the ship.
- Fixed an error occurred when attaching a ship to an object in the editor if it was rotated.
- Fixed entries in error.log when logging into Shipworks.
- The possibility of starting the landing of a non-flying ship has been excluded.
- Fixed a bug due to which when the last ship (flagship) hard landing, the game ended in defeat even if the flagship survived.
- Added one more, the lowest, level of graphics.
- Fixed a bug with calculating the time until the end of the repair in the presence of spare parts.
- Fixed a bug with instant repair of squadrons when they were connected.
- Fixed a bug in Yehuda's quest.
- Fixed a bug in the dialogue with admiral Wan.
- Fixed bugs in the Alsahir's Revenge event.
- Fixed a bug in the quest Matter of Honor.
- Fixed exploit with the final battle.
- Fixed a bug in the final briefing.
- Fixed a bug in the dialogue with the Steward.
- Fixed bug with buttons on the GAME OVER screen.
- Fixed a bug with the spawn of the Varyag in Khiva.
- The game cannot be unpaused in menues.

In my testing, the "large re-balance of armor" seems to be a considerable nerf. My formerly-industructible tanky armor bricks can't even hold up against the mid-size ships in the shipworks anymore.

The armor plating itself seems only slightly weaker. But the bigger difference is that it apparently no longer blocks as much damage on whatever's under the armor. Even if the armor blocks heavy shells, the explosion will still chew up the inside of your ship. And the blasts seem to reach pretty deep, too.

My bricks are blowing up before their first layer of armor is even breached now. I think that even though the armor itself is holding up, the damage is going straight through a couple layers of armor and a couple layers of reinforced hull to shred the modules underneath. That massively reduces the amount of punishment they can take (especially in campaign, where you have to pay to replace those damaged modules), and sooner or later an ammo loader pops and the whole thing goes up in smoke.

I haven't tried spaced armor yet, since I never needed it before the update, so I dunno if it helps.

Vizuyos fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Sep 24, 2021

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Actually, I might have been exaggerating the nerf? I just noticed that the damage-under-armor doesn't seem to be coming in consistently. I'll weather a full assault from a couple ships with no module damage, then a new ship comes in and suddenly my ship pops like a balloon.

I think the Shipworks gauntlet is also giving some ships armor-piercing ammo now. :ghost:

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Flipswitch posted:

Any tips on a good starting composition when learning the game? Its incredible but I'm having a bunch of false starts.

Is there a way to disable the bullet holes in the combat ui? They're the only hit I dislike.

If you turn down the effects level in the settings, the bullet hole effects will be one of the first things that stop appearing.

For a starting composition, it's hard to go wrong with mainly Lightnings and tankers. A couple well-piloted Lightnings will make short work of city garrisons, though they don't have the firepower or staying power to go toe-to-toe with strike groups.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Bold Robot posted:

Are the cool designs that people post (e.g. the one in the post above mine) actually something people use in the campaign or just something they whipped up in the editor? If the former, how do you find the time/resources to do major refits to custom designs while in the campaign?

At the very start of a campaign, when you spend points to draft your initial fleet, the custom designs you've created in the Shipworks will be available as options.

They won't appear at shops during the game, so you won't be able to easily replace any custom ships that get destroyed, but your time/resources pressure will substantially lessen if you can start off with a fleet that can take strike groups head-on without much damage.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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An update actually just dropped a few days ago:

quote:

Hi everyone! We have updated the version of the game. This time only bug fixes and improvements.

1. Fixed the bug with fuel for strike forces.
2. Fixed a bug with enemy refueling in hidden cities.
3. Fixed bugs and exploits with refueling and repairing aircraft.
4. Fixed the drawing of the squadron on the global map after it sends/returns aircraft.
5. Fixed bug with sublists in editor.
6. Added exit from the battle to the title screen.
7. Fixed a bug which caused a money penalty after losing negotiations.
8. Fixed bug with combining module slots when repairing ships.
9. Fixed bug with disappearance of player's ships.
10. Corrected armor weight.
11. Fixed bug with reloading of player's APS.
12. Fixed crash in map mode when using navigational tools.
13. In the battle incorrectly calculated sectors where you can shoot depending on the overlap of the guns and turn the ship's hull.
14. Fixed bug with possibility to choose a transport at campaign start (it was sold at once).
15. Fixed bug with freezing ELINT level in player's squadron.
16. Fixed bug with displaying the purchase price in Supplies for last money.
17. Fixed a bug which caused the GUI to not update when merging squadrons in map mode, such as the list of available missiles.
18. Fixed the incorrect position of the thrust slider in map mode during detailing.
19. Added ability to move the camera while dragging.
20. Fixed errors with display of squadron's flying range on the map and on the mini-screen.
21. Fixed corrected shells operation.
22. Fixed mathematical calculation of the weight of the systems in the ship.
23. Fixed an error in fuel purchase calculations due to rounding.
24. Added bindings for 4 and 5 mouse buttons.
25. Bindings for up/down/left/right buttons now work in map mode and editor.
26. Fixed incorrect amount of resources for armor modules and hull parts.
27. Fixed disappearance of Supplies after a battle in a captured city.
28. 57mm and 100mm in one ship are now assigned to different firing buttons.
29. Small fix in player warning logic on IRST.
30. Fixed bug with AI use of nuclear weapons.
31. Marching engines can be rotated 90 degrees.
32. Added correct torque for marching engines.
33. Each enemy ship uses only one type of special ammo (as does the player).


Marching engines are the fixed engines that don't rotate. So now you can put them on the sides or top of your ship, and they'll actually provide the proper forces for maneuvering.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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ughhhh posted:

Other than the flagship which seems to be meant for modifying, are there other stock ships in the campaign people like to mod to extend it's usefulness?

Lightning seems to be perfect as it is and any changes I make seem to ruin it's best qualities...

Most (if not all) of the stock ships can benefit well from a few modifications. I usually don't get a chance, though - typically by the time I'm buying stock ships it's because I've screwed something up and desperately need to replenish my forces to keep things moving. The only mod I've done much of is putting a plane or two on my recon/tanker ships.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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ughhhh posted:

Is the 130 molots that good that going from 4 barrels to 2 barrels worth to?

That's brilliant.

The 130mm Molot has the same ammo requirement as the 100 does, it's just more expensive and has a slower reload. You can replace a 100mm with a 130mm without really having to change anything.

It's not a bad strategy in general - start with cheap 100mms for the weak ships in the early campaign, and as the campaign progresses and you start to face off against tougher stuff, you'll be able to start swapping the 100mm guns out for 130mm guns to bring more firepower against larger and better-armored ships.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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search engine posted:

This is a cool game but it is really kicking my rear end, and I don't think it's a matter of degree like I just need to do the same things I'm doing a little better. I feel like I'm missing some fundamental mechanic(s). I do completely fine for the first 10-15 cities because it's mostly thrashing little fleets of relatively weak ships, but as soon as the bigger engagements start happening I inevitably start on a death spiral. Places where I get the impression I'm doing something wrong:

- Even sending just one fast (300+ km/s) ship in ahead of the fleet is a 50/50 on whether the city I'm attacking gets off an emergency signal and starts the tactical group gangbang.

- Apart from sending a jet ahead and then immediately retreating it, I can't figure out how to predict a defending fleet's size and composition, so doing anything but lumbering in with my entire fleet turns into a huge gamble where I can pilot really well but still lose due to running out of fuel before I can shoot down all 12 defenders with my 2-3 attackers.

- Carriers and jets seem bad for anything but intercepting missiles and scouting. Jets do negligible damage to fleets and get shot down regularly even attacking grounded ships.

- Jamming doesn't seem to do much of anything. It doesn't appear to stop city or trader emergency signals, and I still regularly get hit by jammed missiles.

- Fielding big ships against big ships results in slugfests where I can't avoid taking tons of hits and end up so far in the hole on repair costs/time that even winning feels like losing

- Fielding smaller ships against big ships kinda works except if the retreat point is in the wrong corner I'm basically guaranteed to die or be severely damaged getting over there even dodging 95% of hits.

- Long range conventional missiles just hit random targets in the enemy fleet if they even make it through, which seems pretty low value for the cost of the missile and the ship to lug it around.

First thing first, are you keeping your radar turned off all the time except when you're actively using it? And are you keeping your slower ships outside the red circle around the city? The indicator in the bottom right shows the chance that your active fleet will be able to get a sudden strike under various conditions, but in general, a speedy ship should usually be able to get them against cities unless there's a strike group parked there with radar running. I think it's more likely that you're getting spotted separately, rather than failing the Sudden Strike.

Planes do hefty damage to enemy ships, with bombs doing more damage than missiles but being harder to hit with. But the biggest advantage to planes is that there's almost no risk to using them unless the enemy fleet has anti-air missiles. They're reusable, don't use any noticeable fuel, don't reveal your position to the enemy, and aren't that expensive to equip.

Long-range missiles are best suited to targets that would be able to shoot down planes, such as aircraft carriers or strike groups that haven't used up their anti-air. A missile strike or two will use up an enemy strike group's anti-air missiles, so you can follow up with regular airstrikes without having to worry about getting your expensive planes shot down. And against a strike group, taking out one ship should be good regardless of which ship it is.

The only beneficial thing the jammer does is make conventionally-guided long-range missiles more difficult to hit with, by reducing the missile's ability to lock-on to you when it gets close. However, it also acts like a very powerful radar emitter itself, making it much easier for anti-radiation missiles to hit you and lighting up ELINTs from really far away. Because of that, it's pretty risky to use and hard to get that much benefit from, since it tends to be a magnet for trouble. It's safer to put it on detached fleets (ideally cheap and unimportant ships you won't miss too much), but I'd rather have the decent chunk of cash from selling it.

The best way to deal with big ships is to soften them up from afar with planes and missiles. But when you really must get into a brawl with something big, armor is a lifesaver since it's relatively cheap and quick to repair (though relying too much on armor wastes tons of fuel and tempts the enemy to use armor-piercing ammo). Special ammo can be quite effective against big armored ships, depending on what gun caliber you prefer and what range your slugger fights at. Armor-piercing is of course the standout if you can get close enough, but prox fuse and incendiary can both be surprisingly effective against stock bigships if you have enough of them. And if you can reliably fight strike groups, you don't have to worry TOO much about repair time - the only punishment for spending too long repairing is that more strike groups will come your way.

silentsnack posted:

so was it just a funny bug when I turned on my jammer one time and immediately got an implausibly precise "ALERT. UNIDENTIFIED CONTACT RANGE 7483KM" or somesuch?

7483km is way out of the range of any radar in the game, but the strongest ELINT in the game will detect a jammer up to 8000km away. So that's an ELINT reading, for sure.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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double nine posted:

Just got this game and having a blast but I can't understand airplane weaponry.

What airplane weapons are used for what target type(s)?

Generally bombs are used for larger and slower ships, or when you're sure you've caught the enemy on the ground. They generally pack a hefty punch, but their slow fall and fixed trajectory means that the more agile ships will often dodge it if they're already in the air.

Rockets pack less of a punch, but are generally easier to hit with. The plane fires multiple rockets and they travel more quickly, so you have a good chance of getting some hits even against a smaller, more mobile target.

Planes with anti-air missiles are generally your best shot at taking out incoming missiles. It's like the ship-mounted AA missile, except fired from a plane so you can use it at a distance from your ships. They're also quite effective at taking out enemy planes.

Sending out planes with just their built-in guns is generally a hail-mary last resort. They do virtually no damage to enemy ships, and they usually can't manage to shoot down enemy missiles either. They might be able to harass enemy bomber flights, but they're not really that effective there either. It's free, though (aside from the risk of getting your planes shot down or not being able to use them for a few hours).

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Serephina posted:

Thanks for that, got through it in the end. In the campaign now, I absolutely love the intel war stuff (even if jamming seems to not work the way I'd expect - I seem to be spending 100% of my time in high alert).

I don't think I 'get' aircraft carriers - I launch a bunch of planes, they show up and all die without scratching anyone with their pea shooters. Bought a bunch of missiles (expensive!!) and likewise they just blew all their rockets and did nothing. Am trying to scrape together enough parts to build a big fat combat cruiser since I don't really have any answer to any midsize guys with armour.

I really with there was stronger 'blueprint' support in the game; I enjoy having to 'wing it', but like after I upgraded one tanker with basic parts I'd like to just press a button and have the other mimic the design.

You really need to spend some money to get any use out of planes. The default machineguns on planes are essentially useless, they're not really capable of anything except a desperate last-ditch defense against enemy planes (and maybe, if you're really really lucky, enemy missiles). You need to buy actual weapons for your planes if you want them to be useful for anything. And since you don't control the attack runs, it's always possible the planes might target the wrong ship, attack heavily armored parts, or even miss the enemies entirely. Which all adds up to a pricey method of attack, but still cheaper and easier than firing off cruise missiles or burning a bunch of fuel and repair money on a close-range fight.

Also, it's best to send planes in groups of no more than 3 at a time. Regardless of how many you send at once, once the battle screen opens up they'll attack in waves of 3 at a time. But since the first wave is by far the safest (since they can get in and out before the enemy ships get their anti-aircraft defenses running), it's better to split up your groups so each group of 3 starts a new battle encounter where they can be the first and only wave in that encounter.

As plane weapons go, bombs are powerful but slow, so they tend to miss moving targets. I like to save them for encounters with bigger, slower, heavily-armored ships, especially if they're likely to be landed. Bombs will have a decent chance of hitting those, and they'll blow big holes in the armor that leave these ships vulnerable to further attack.

Plane rockets are weaker than bombs, but faster and more accurate (though they still have some spread to them). I like to use them on faster mid-size ships that might dodge bombs but are more vulnerable to damage.

Plane missiles are basically the same as the anti-air missiles you mount on your ships. They're useless for fighting enemy ships, but their high speed and accuracy makes them extremely effective at shooting down enemy planes and missiles. They're defensive tools designed basically exclusively for intercepting enemy long-range attacks before they get to your ships.

Also, just in case you're unclear, jamming does not hide you from the enemies. It blasts out high-powered radar signals, so while they will blind enemy radars, half the enemies on the map will see their radar detectors light up with your approximate location and start heading your way to check it out (or, if you're really unlucky, they'll start firing radar-detecting missiles your way). It's the equivalent of yelling really loudly to block out the sound of you rifling through someone's desk - they might have a hard time using sound to tell exactly where you are or what you're doing, but they sure as heck will know which room you're in. As a result, jamming is a very situational tool, mostly good for helping you evade radar-guided missiles.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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The stock ships being flawed means that it's usually pretty easy to tweak them in ways that make them a lot better, working with nothing more than the extra poo poo on your other ships and whatever you find in the nearest city.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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temple posted:

How do you beat a SG with an aircraft carrier, missile carrier, and multiple cruisers? Is that how all SG are?

SGs will always have cruisers and at least one ship with missiles, and will sometimes have an aircraft carrier as well. They're meant to be tough to deal with, to incentivize using stealth and strategy instead of just charging in with your best brawlers.

Mid-sized ships tend to be a good bet for dealing with cruisers, since they can be speedy enough to dodge that heavy-caliber fire but can still pack enough of a punch to get through that armor. And your own cruisers can usually brawl with enemy cruisers on more than even ground once you fix the flaws in the stock designs.

If possible, though, it's best to soften up strike groups with missiles and aircraft attacks first. It's expensive, but strike groups are about the scariest stuff you'll run into, so there's no point in being stingy with the missiles against them. Even one good missile/bomb hit can blow a gaping hole in a cruiser's armor and turn it into easy prey.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Serephina posted:

Thanks for that, I'll try to save a few loyal people then. In the meantime, I'm trying to convert the Sevastapol into a fighting ship (and mostly selling off or refitting any other cruisers I get); do Palashes have any place on a ship that's gonna take such a serious drubbing? I salvaged a bunch and am too lazy to try and recreate my current sevasta-disaster in the ship editor to test it. I'd suspect they'd all expire almost instantly when fighting a SG, then get blown off and be impossible to replace; ie they belong on something more nimble? It's probably a better idea to swap all the Vympels for 35mm, right?

Really depends on what you're going for.

Palashes don't last long if you're taking sustained heavy-caliber fire, but neither will anything else on your ship. If you think of them as a backup defense for blocking any heavy artillery that you fail to shoot down, they're not so bad.

For purely defensive purposes, I prefer 37mm over 57mm, but it really depends on your playstyle. 37mm has a much larger clip than 57mm does so you don't have to be as economical with your shots, but it takes twice as long to reload so you've got a larger period of defenselessness between clips.

Personally, though, I take the opposite route with the Sevastopol: I strip off the weapons and armor and use them to beef up my other ships, turning the Sevastopol into a dedicated strategic cruiser.

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Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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by.a.teammate posted:

should i just take all the armour and stuff off the sevestapool? I feel like its a crutch and prob better to find some more skylarks to buy and have little fleets heading off? (well thats what the internet says i should do)

Yeah, all the armor and stuff makes the Sevastopol slow and fuel inefficient, which is not great for the one ship that absolutely has to cross the entire map. Moreover, since you lose if it dies, it's best to avoid sending it into combat at all, so that giant gun and all that armor are doing nothing for it. If it does get caught, all that armor and that giant gun mean it has a fairly decent chance in combat, but once you're used to evading enemy fleets and splitting off your own strike forces it's not really worth the trouble of hauling all that around.

Generally, people strip off most of the Sevastopol's combat equipment and use it to outfit their other ships instead, or just sell it. I'll leave some anti-air stuff on it just in case, and I'll typically throw a flight deck on top because it doesn't really cost any weight or mass to do so.

It's also possible to strip off the ship's non-combat equipment and make it a tough fighter. Really, the important lesson here is that multi-role ships suck - each ship should have one or two jobs tops. If you're putting sensors and long-range missiles on something, remove the armor and big guns. If you're putting armor and big guns on something, remove the sensors and missiles.

Yeah, the pro strat in this game is to split off ships into separate fleets. Rather than dragging your whole group back and forth chasing various objectives, just split off the ships you need and send them. It helps keep your non-combat ships out of combat and wastes less fuel. It also allows you to make a lot more strategic moves, such as sending high-speed raiders for fast surprise strikes, or using scouts and/or bait forces to lure enemy strike groups into a perfect position for your own long-range weaponry.

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