|
I'm crossing my fingers that emulation will be easy. We'll see how it shakes out after release.
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 23:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 17:23 |
|
|
Shammypants posted:Look, I don't know enough about this stuff to confidently say anything, but there were headline stories about how the Deck might not be able to play X, Y, Z because of issues with anti-cheat software and later it was headline news that they were collaborating to make sure it works with Proton day 1. I'm not sure if we should have been confident that it was guaranteed or what but the news cycle seems to indicate that it requires at least some considerable effort to get it working. I'm speaking with the assumption that Valve can do what they say they can do, it's absolutely a possibility that they will fall short of that. Veotax posted:So how does Proton work? I've never used Linux so I've never looked into it. Would more or less any Windows app be able to run through it? Proton is a lot of things mushed together. At it's core it's a custom version of Wine inside a container (sort of like a Virtual Machine) that's designed to allow for the seamless launching of games from Steam. But it can work independent from Steam too, there's a Linux program called Lutris that makes it relatively easy to set up and use. Wine Is Not an Emulator, but a re-implementation of "win32", the application platform most of the Windows applications and games you use run upon (there is also UWP apps which you get from the Microsoft Store, those are not compatible). While it may sound like it could have a performance impact, in practice there usually isn't (outside of graphics, more on that next paragraph) and occasionally performance can be better than running the same software on Windows. There have been some performance issues in the past but Valve has been actively working to fix them, including submitting new features to the Linux kernel to bridge gaps between it and the Windows kernel. Wrapping Direct3D was a significant cause of overhead in the past, largely as it was wrapping to OpenGL, a high level graphics API. Now all of the wrappers used translate to Vulkan, minimizing overhead. Any game that runs OpenGL or Vulkan on Windows doesn't have to go through those translation layers. Poor drivers on Linux was also a problem, but that has also been solved, AMD drivers on Linux are now outright fantastic. Valve are aiming for total compatibility with their own software library, but that isn't every Windows app and it remains to be seen how close they get. e: Another thing to keep in mind that a lot of the applications you may use on Windows have native Linux versions. Discord, Spotify, Chrome, even Microsoft Edge. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 23:39
|
|
|
pseudorandom name posted:Valve has been collaborating with anti-cheat vendors for several years now and the promised compatibility has never arrived so I wouldn't hold my breath. MarcusSA posted:While this is true now they have a significant financial incentive to get their poo poo working. Yeah they're announcing an entire hardware platform based on this working, they must feel pretty confident about it. But absolute worst case scenario, several high profile mulitplayer titles don't work. Personally IDC, I don't think I'll be doing any pro competitive gaming on my 12lbs handheld with 2 1/2hr battery life anyway! I spent over an hour trying to get a pre-order in yesterday right at 10am pst, by the time the pre-order went through it queued me up for Q2 '22 expected release  Anyway, re-watching videos and seeing the combo touch pad + gyro controls in an FPS just gives me a big computer nerd boner. Can't wait.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 23:53
|
|
|
I can't wait to play Cruelty Squad on the toilet, where it's supposed to be played.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 23:56
|
|
|
The APU is really impressive and should be a lot more powerful than the 4500U in the Aya Neo, but would Valve be able to make an ARM version at some point? That would require translating Windows->Linux, x86->ARM and maybe even 32-bit to 64-bit, but apparently the M1 MacBook can get decent performance running Windows games through a VM so it might be possible. box86 with Wine lets you run 32-bit Windows applications on ARM Linux devices like the Raspberry Pi, but not 64-bit ones. Microsoft took ages to get 64-bit programs working on their ARM Surface laptops so I don’t know how long it will be before you can do this on Linux. The whole point is to get much better battery life of course, and it wouldn’t need huge fans and vents to stop it from melting in your hands.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:02
|
|
|
The M1 has hardware extensions specifically to facilitate fast x86 emulation, and no other ARM core on the market has anything equivalent Maybe... eventually?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:07
|
|
|
That loving Sned posted:The APU is really impressive and should be a lot more powerful than the 4500U in the Aya Neo, but would Valve be able to make an ARM version at some point? That would require translating Windows->Linux, x86->ARM and maybe even 32-bit to 64-bit, but apparently the M1 MacBook can get decent performance running Windows games through a VM so it might be possible. While I don't regret getting my Aya Neo lol at least I'll get a good 8 months with it before I get my deck. As for ARM I guess it depends on if they can get a good ARM chip. They certainly won't get the banging Apple version that's for sure but if there is a decent spin off then maybe? I have an M1 mac and it is fuckin legit and honestly with no hyperbole it drastically changes what it means to be a laptop. It runs circles around the intel / amd versions while having fantastic battery life. Edit: repiv posted:The M1 has hardware extensions specifically to facilitate fast x86 emulation, and no other ARM core on the market has anything equivalent Yeah this. I'm sure other people are working on something similar but who knows how that is going to shake out.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:07
|
|
|
repiv posted:It's been discussed to death in the Steam thread but for the sake of the new thread I don't know if this is true for m.2 2230 drives, however some higher capacity 2280 drives (4/8TB) can be too thick to comfortably fit into laptop enclosures, causing stress on the drive and other internals. Maybe some in this thread knows, but given 2230 drives are so much smaller than 2280 is it possible that a 1TB drive or higher will be materially thicker than a lower capacity drive and potentially struggle to fit?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:10
|
|
|
Raffles posted:I don't know if this is true for m.2 2230 drives, however some higher capacity 2280 drives (4/8TB) can be too thick to comfortably fit into laptop enclosures, causing stress on the drive and other internals. I found a few single sided 1TB drives out there when I looked, seems most of what I could find got pulled out of enclosures and put on ebay.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:11
|
|
|
SCheeseman posted:I found a few single sided 1TB drives out there when I looked, seems most of what I could find got pulled out of enclosures and put on ebay. Yeah my GPD Win Max specifically states it has to be single sided.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:13
|
|
|
Raffles posted:I don't know if this is true for m.2 2230 drives, however some higher capacity 2280 drives (4/8TB) can be too thick to comfortably fit into laptop enclosures, causing stress on the drive and other internals. That's a good call, I checked the Toshiba/Kioxia BG4 and there is a small difference in the 1TB version https://business.kioxia.com/en-emea/ssd/client-ssd/bg4.html They are all single sided boards, but the 128GB-512GB versions are M.2 2230-S2 format (1.35mm component thickness) while the 1TB version is M.2 2230-S3 format (1.50mm components) https://www.sandisk.com/content/dam/sandisk-main/en_us/assets/resources/data-sheets/Western-Digital-PC-SN520-Commercial-Datasheet.pdf Sandisk/WD 2230 drives on the other hand are all S3 (1.50mm), even the lower capacity ones. Is the Steam Deck so tightly packed that 0.15mm will make or break drive compatibility? Probably not but who knows! repiv fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jul 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:16
|
|
|
I've been holding out on buying Disco Elysium until it came to the switch, but maybe I won't wait now that I can eventually play it in bed 
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:23
|
|
|
Nuts and Gum posted:I spent over an hour trying to get a pre-order in yesterday right at 10am pst, by the time the pre-order went through it queued me up for Q2 '22 expected release Yeah what up also at launch but because of servers melting got stuck in second wave buddy
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:38
|
|
|
Took me too long to get an order in (50 mins) but I have a 512 reservation and they say q2…..
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:39
|
|
|
I'm tentatively excited for this. The fact that they're using a custom APU and LPDDR5 will make it a lot better than existing handheld PCs. Off-the-shelf single-chip solutions like what the competition uses are not meant for gaming at all, and they all favor CPU power over GPU power. The ONEXPLAYER using an 11th-gen Intel chip with an IGPU that's roughly equivalent to a Geforce 1030 is an example of this. So going with Zen 2 coupled with RDNA 2 is really smart. You're not going to be doing any productivity poo poo on this anyway, may as well min-max it for gaming if you can get a custom chip. LPDDR5 offers a lot more memory bandwidth than even LPDDR4X, which alleviates one of the biggest bottlenecks for APUs. The hardware will be able to run much more closely to its full capabilities thanks to that. Though I think some people are going to be disappointed by the battery life. Two hours of 3D gaming is pretty low. There's not much they could've done to improve that given how big and heavy the thing already is, but it's still gonna be kinda annoying having to charge it so often. Anyway, I tossed in my five bucks. If it looks like it stinks from the early impressions, I'll just cancel it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:48
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Though I think some people are going to be disappointed by the battery life. Two hours of 3D gaming is pretty low. simply tape a 25,000mAh powerbank to the back, bringing the whole unit to a mere 1.2 kilograms
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:53
|
|
|
If you have played literally any handheld console you shouldn’t be shocked.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 00:54
|
|
|
repiv posted:simply tape a 25,000mAh powerbank to the back, bringing the whole unit to a mere 1.2 kilograms Or attach via a USB C cable for not much extra weight. That's what I do with the Switch and a 20k mAh power bank.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:02
|
|
|
I'm pretty surprised that I was able to create a Steam account this morning and put in a preorder deposit for the 256 GB model since Valve said they wouldn't let new accounts place orders within the first 48 hours. I'm lined up for Q2, which is enough time to see how the early units shake out in practice. I've always been a handheld guy and recently bought big into the Switch. In contrast I dropped PC gaming 20 years ago before Steam and digital distribution was a thing, and the Deck is exactly the kind of device to get me into that ecosystem. I've always found past Linux handhelds to be, interesting, but without the backing of a major content provider they've never amounted to more than curiosities. I think with this though Valve has the chance to do it right and pivot into the console/hybrid space especially at a time when Nintendo is giving them an open by neglecting any real performance upgrades for the Switch and Microsoft and Sony aren't even trying. Anyways, since I just opened my Steam account I have a year to catch up on sales for "must have" titles and am looking for suggestions--particulatly anything that hasn't been ported over to the Switch already. The Valve Complete Pack is already on my list. Also looking at the Deus Ex Collection. The Master Chief Collection is on sale right now, but I don't know how worthwhile the Halo single player campaigns are (I'm not into multiplayer at all). ExcessBLarg! fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jul 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:05
|
|
|
I think the buffer was probably only for the first day as bots aren’t gonna do much now
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:08
|
|
|
v1ld posted:Or attach via a USB C cable for not much extra weight. That's what I do with the Switch and a 20k mAh power bank. now i think of it, since the usb port is on the top there isn't much impediment to just using a wall charger and long usb cable if you're playing on a couch or in bed or something it's not like the switch where the port is awkwardly placed to use while gaming
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:10
|
|
|
Hitting the deck in over a year from now. Awooouuu. Really excited though
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:12
|
|
|
ideally it would have two usbs, one at the top and one at the bottom for docking, but presumably that was cost optimized away
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:13
|
|
|
Yeah that is how the Aya Neo does it and I was really surprised it doesn't have one at the bottom.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:16
|
|
|
Would something like a second port be a late addition or is something of that would be unlikely to change from now until release? I feel like once they released specs and external hardware details that’s it more or less but maybe other devices have made changes like this before release?
Shammypants fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jul 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:18
|
|
|
very unlikely something that requires a PCB respin and changes to the plastic injection molds would change this late in the game they need to start cranking these out sooner rather than later to build up a decent amount of stock before launch
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:20
|
|
|
I don't really see the port location as an issue. Unless it's an actual Switch-style dock it's either more convenient to plug into the top or it doesn't matter either way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:22
|
|
|
do we have any idea how many of these there'll be? by december, and later.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:33
|
|
|
Not available in australia sadly this looks cool as hell and may as well be the ultimate emulation device.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:44
|
|
|
Valve is really bad at hardware distribution so I wouldn't hold your breath unfortunately The Index has been around for 2 years and it's still only available in these countries quote:Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom, United States
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:47
|
|
|
I mean the Index is a much more niche product than this is suppose to be.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:48
|
|
|
steam dreck
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:51
|
|
|
Given that the screen is only 720p, what are the chances that it actually does fairly well with AAA games for the foreseeable future?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:54
|
|
|
Here's another question, for streaming services like Netflix and Amazon, will this device be able to stream to a television in 4k?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 01:59
|
|
|
bloodysabbath posted:Given that the screen is only 720p, what are the chances that it actually does fairly well with AAA games for the foreseeable future? The napkin math is that the GPU is proportionally as powerful rendering 720p as the new generation consoles are when rendering 4K, but the CPU is only half as powerful as the new consoles. It's gonna depend largely on how CPU heavy the game is going forward. Shammypants posted:Here's another question, for streaming services like Netflix and Amazon, will this device be able to stream to a television in 4k? The device can physically output 4K, but 4K video streaming on the default SteamOS might be problematic due to the DRM they use. Higher qualities like 4K usually have stricter DRM requirements that I doubt Linux can fulfil. It'll probably work fine if you install Windows on it though. repiv fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jul 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 02:03
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 02:34
|
|
|
If I didn't already have a Switch, this would be a very easy purchase to justify - I'm not too fussed about battery life (I've got the earlier Switch which gets pretty pathetic battery life at this point), none of the games I play would need anti-cheat, and I actually love my Steam Controller. I can definitely understand people's skepticism with Steam hardware based on previous experiences though - even if stuff has been competently executed they don't have a great track record of sticking with it. I'm curious how good the graphics card is and what kind of games it could ouput at 1080p through the dock. At any rate, it's pretty exciting to see Valve dipping back into hardware a bit more and I'll be following the Steam Deck and its competitors with interest. While there are definitely some games in my Steam library I'd be playing more of if I had them on a Switch-like portable, I can't really justify buying a $400 handheld (probably closer to AU$600 by the time I import it) just for the handful of games I play that either don't have Switch ports or I don't want to pay the Switch tax on. If I didn't have anything invested in the Switch ecosystem and/or was really into emulation, I'd probably sell the Switch and get the Steam Deck when it came out though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 02:52
|
|
|
Dave Matthews Big Fan! posted:a year ago I would've thought this was stupid as hell but with pc parts being miserabe to buy atm and remote work making me want to not spend any more time in front of my work pc than I have to, I'm actually super into this lol. I shelled out for the 512, hope the premium screen is nice Extremely in the same boat. I want this because parting out a new gaming rig is insane right now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 02:53
|
|
|
I’m thinking about it more for the emulation scene. I think it’ll be able to run circles around all the current available Chinese handhelds (though they are in way different price ranges).
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 03:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 17:23 |
|
|
JazzFlight posted:I’m thinking about it more for the emulation scene. I think it’ll be able to run circles around all the current available Chinese handhelds (though they are in way different price ranges). Well its also faster over the high priced chinese machines as well (aya neo GPD, one x ect ). Its also about 300 cheaper.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 03:18
|
|