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KakerMix posted:The loss they make now can turn into crazy profits later because Steam = $$$$$ so every dollar they can spend to even get someone LOOKING in that direction is good for them because they are where you buy games on PC. They aren't even a little threatened by Epic based on how they handle themselves, they are by Microsoft (or were) and the Deck is probably just someone going "hey PC people are buying the Switch why don't we sell them something else instead of a Nintendo?" I didn't know that Steam was privately held still. I never looked into it but I just assumed that they had an IPO or something once I started seeing shovel-ware and crazy skins on the platform. Very glad to hear it's still a private company. Anyways yeah I never had plans to buy any of the current crop of consoles. I still have a switch but I rarely use it (I just buy Nintendo consoles for Zelda at this point lol). If the Steam Deck is good, when I start traveling again for work all the time I'll definitely consider getting one over a gaming laptop.
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Jul 18, 2021 17:55
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Soul Glo posted:I wonder where Steam thinks it's going to make up the loss in the pricing. They don't have a subscription service like GamePass or even PSN or Xbox Live to get users to make up the difference in the long run. Soul Glo posted:Just about everyone buying this thing already has a deep Steam library, so I would assume the increased software sales won't make a huge contribution to their coffers.
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Jul 18, 2021 17:56
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Can you imagine Microsoft making something like the Steam Deck? The Game Gear but with the TV tuner built right in!!!!
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Jul 18, 2021 18:03
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KakerMix posted:Can you imagine Microsoft making something like the Steam Deck? They’re all in on GamePass but I can see them doing a cheap streaming-only home console/HDMI stick in the future.
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Jul 18, 2021 18:04
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KakerMix posted:Can you imagine Microsoft making something like the Steam Deck? TBH Microsoft can be pretty unpredictable. The company is huge and I get the sense that many of their departments have no idea what they're doing.
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Jul 18, 2021 18:56
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Fantastic Foreskin posted:Not that I put much stock into interviews, but Gabe said the idea was not so much to be profitable on the device as it was to create/popularize the device category, with the hope that other manufacturers get into the game. PC gaming is good for Valve, so if they can get people to look for and buy a device like this instead of a switch or phone games they come out a winner in the long term. That is absolutely a lie, because there are several manufacturers already producing pc-based handhelds and this is going to destroy all of them
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Jul 18, 2021 19:11
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Yeah, that's what I was getting at with my earlier posts. Valve is claiming that they want to foster an ecosystem of handhelds while simultaneously making it impossible to compete with them due to their extremely aggressive pricing that's only possible due to them being the platform owner. Honestly, they need to be careful not to end up with an antitrust lawsuit on their hands. Literally every single person I know who had a pending preorder for those other devices has canceled them so they can get a steam deck instead. So pour one out for that burgeoning scene that Valve just crushed. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 20:26
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The nice thing about this thing is that it means the Final Fantasy Pixel Remasters not having been announced for Switch doesn’t matter, since I can get them on Steam and they’ll be on this thing. My switch doesn’t work in portable mode anymore due to cat pee causing some issues, so I was going to get the OLED model until this was announced. No point getting a new switch when I can spend the extra money for this thing, which will probably run games better than my five year old laptop anyway.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:30
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My Switch hasn't been peed on, but I was thinking of getting the OLED model. I have a launch Switch and I was thinking of replacing it last year when I started playing it in portable mode more and wanted to get the new model with the better battery. The OLED one was pushing me to replacing it, but the Steam Deck has changed my mind. Especially if it's good enough to emulate more recent games.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:37
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Soul Glo posted:I wonder where Steam thinks it's going to make up the loss in the pricing. They don't have a subscription service like GamePass or even PSN or Xbox Live to get users to make up the difference in the long run. Just about everyone buying this thing already has a deep Steam library, so I would assume the increased software sales won't make a huge contribution to their coffers. There are going to be a lot of people buying this thing that aren't traditional PC gamers because the form factor is extremely appealing. While I don't expect it to cut into Switch sales, there has got to be a ton of console gamers out there who are aware of Steam sales but are intimidated by/don't have the space for a desktop. The promise of a handheld console that just works and lets you access those cheap PC games is going to appeal to a whole new segment of consumers. That's what Valve obviously believes anyway, and I'm sure they've done their research. I can see devs shipping games with preset 'Steam Deck' settings also to appeal to this crowd, who don't want to fiddle with graphics options etc. If you can buy a game and it detects you're running a Deck, automatically applies the GFX settings to get 60fps at native resolution, you never have to worry about all those intimidating technical things and can just play your games. That would be pretty cool. Bardeh fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 20:40
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flavor.flv posted:That is absolutely a lie, because there are several manufacturers already producing pc-based handhelds and this is going to destroy all of them They exist, but they're about as far from mass-market devices as things get; by the time you've heard of them you're already deep in ubernerdery. Valve wants it to go mainstream. Or so they say.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:41
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Veotax posted:The OLED one was pushing me to replacing it, but the Steam Deck has changed my mind.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:41
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If the Deck gets good performance/reliability reviews I might grab a cheaper one. Most games I play are lower spec/smallish install size anyways. Guess I'll check back in 6 months.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:53
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flavor.flv posted:That is absolutely a lie, because there are several manufacturers already producing pc-based handhelds and this is going to destroy all of them Whatever happened with the Alienware switch? I saw that in person at CES 2020 right before the world ended (probably got Corona also)
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Jul 18, 2021 21:01
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Veotax posted:My Switch hasn't been peed on, but I was thinking of getting the OLED model. I have a launch Switch and I was thinking of replacing it last year when I started playing it in portable mode more and wanted to get the new model with the better battery. The OLED one was pushing me to replacing it, but the Steam Deck has changed my mind. Especially if it's good enough to emulate more recent games. If you do sell your launch Switch make sure to sell it as "unpatched" so thirsty  homebrewers will give you lots of money for it
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Jul 18, 2021 21:09
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Is the Steam Deck really so much more expensive to manufacture than the Switch? I don't see why people are reading Gabe's painful quote as "we're losing money on these" rather than "I wish we were only selling the 512Gb model because 64Gb is too small and had a better battery, but sacrifices had to be made to reach the price point."
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Jul 18, 2021 21:46
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Peaceful Anarchy posted:Is the Steam Deck really so much more expensive to manufacture than the Switch?
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Jul 18, 2021 21:51
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The switch has like a 7 year old Tegra in it. The deck is running on the newest AMD architecture and there's a chip shortage. They are definitely losing money on these right now and probably for a couple years.
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Jul 18, 2021 21:52
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I've actively avoided interacting with Steam for most of my life (not a fan of monopolies, even historically benevolent [as far as such things go] ones) and I spent multiple hours regaining access to my account so I could reserve a Gabe Gear. Part of it is that I just like hackin' on stuff (Switches included), but part of it is that I like the idea of computer games but I just do not play games while at my computer. Couldn't even tell ya why, but I just never feel the inclination. If the same game is on the couch streamed via moonlight I might plink away at it, but if it's a game I have within reach and can insta-pause then you bet I'm gonna bust it out during work calls or when I just don't feel like getting out of bed, possibly 'cause it's the middle of the night and I'm awake for some reason. If this can pull off instant-on, instant-off gaming like they claim it will, I and those like me are gonna be playin' a lot more games.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:07
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ExcessBLarg! posted:Yes, it is. Look at how much more expensive the Aya Neo is. That is skewed by the Aya Neos production volume being in the thousands, and Steam Decks projected volume being in the millions though. Valve has a huge lead on economy of scale.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:07
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ExcessBLarg! posted:Yes, it is. Look at how much more expensive the Aya Neo is. I do think the 64Gb is being sold at a loss, but the other two seem like price points they could reach with the scale and manufacturing partnerships they have access to.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:08
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OK, so you all agree that the $399 price point for the 64 GB model is at least the cost to manufacture, which makes it significantly more expensive than the Switch.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:12
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ExcessBLarg! posted:OK, so you all agree that the $399 price point for the 64 GB model is at least the cost to manufacture, which makes it significantly more expensive than the Switch. A lot of people were talking in ways that implied the latter, and while I think valve is willing to throw money around to see what happens I don't think they're willing to price that aggressively.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:24
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I'm pretty sure "painful" means they're taking a loss on it. They're probably breaking even with the 256 GB model, so you can extrapolate from there.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:26
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I wonder if they intend to sell many 64GB models or if it's just there for the "starting at 400 bux" factor It's extremely limiting, and you're stuck with slow SD cards for expansion unless you do m.2 surgery
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Jul 18, 2021 22:47
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Senator Drinksalot posted:The switch has like a 7 year old Tegra in it. The deck is running on the newest AMD architecture and there's a chip shortage. They are definitely losing money on these right now and probably for a couple years. The sort of smart thing that Valve did was pick a chip from AMD that is OEM only. For whatever reason, OEM partners are still getting parts for their systems during this shortage, so in theory it will mean Valve will be able to produce the number of Gabe Gears that they need.
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Jul 18, 2021 23:05
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The eMMC model is pretty clearly a compromise to reach the $399 price point, which puts it within an earshot of the Switch, and so is a major PR and interest generator. They probably figure much of their existing user base is savvy enough to opt for an NVMe model. In isolation there's value in the eMMC model for indy and older titles, but that's also a market the Switch already has well covered.
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Jul 18, 2021 23:07
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ExcessBLarg! posted:In isolation there's value in the eMMC model for indy and older titles, but that's also a market the Switch already has well covered. To be fair, the switch has problems running a lot of older and indy titles smoothly. Even 2d card battlers like slay the spire can lag. Which is why I'm super interested in the steam deck, at the very least it will play all those types of games flawlessly.
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Jul 18, 2021 23:10
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Dramicus posted:To be fair, the switch has problems running a lot of older and indy titles smoothly. Even 2d card battlers like slay the spire can lag. Which is why I'm super interested in the steam deck, at the very least it will play all those types of games flawlessly. That's kinda what spurred me into getting it. I've been increasingly annoyed at paying the Switch tax on top of getting a gimped experience
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Jul 18, 2021 23:19
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ExcessBLarg! posted:I'm pretty sure "painful" means they're taking a loss on it. They're probably breaking even with the 256 GB model, so you can extrapolate from there. I figured painful meant what they had to sacrifice to get the base model to $399 (to sell at cost). Like how the PowerGlove was originally much better then Mattel forced them to make it for like 10% of the original BOM.
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Jul 18, 2021 23:37
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The only thing sacrificed in the base model is the SSD. "Painful" I'm sure refers to the negotiations they had with their suppliers, namely AMD. Part of those negotiations almost certainly assumes a loss on Valve's part.
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Jul 18, 2021 23:51
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Peaceful Anarchy posted:Aya Neo costs 789 for 512 which steam is selling for $649. That seems like a difference that can be made up by partnering with AMD, not including windows, and being willing to break even rather than trying to make a profit. Minor correction that’s the cheaper Kickstarter price the this is the actual retail price which even taking into account volume making up $300 is pretty drat hard 
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Jul 19, 2021 00:01
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ExcessBLarg! posted:The only thing sacrificed in the base model is the SSD. Yes, but to get the base model to that price involves other sacrifices across the board
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Jul 19, 2021 00:02
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repiv posted:I wonder if they intend to sell many 64GB models or if it's just there for the "starting at 400 bux" factor The 64gb slow model has "White 8GB Wii U" vibes. More easily upgradable storage would have mitigated that a lot.
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Jul 19, 2021 00:19
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What about the specifications jump out to you as being sacrificed? I wouldn't look at it like "a BOM of $450 per unit sold at $399 means Valve loses $60 per unit," that's probably an oversimplification. Instead, Valve probably contracted with AMD for a minimum order quantity to get the APU cost as close to margins as possible. If that quantity is in, say, 100k or even millions, then they're eating that cost until they can sell enough Decks to meet the minimum order, and the price they're actually selling the Decks for is how much that cost is offset by current sales. It's also possible that they're straight up selling the $399 model below marginal cost and know it's unsustainable. It may not matter for their bottom line though if it flops because they didn't price it aggressively enough.
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Jul 19, 2021 00:29
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I don't disagree with you about their (no doubt intense) negotiations with AMD. I just read it as Valve expressing that it was painful to get it to sell at or around cost, not at a loss. I'm sure there were many hard decisions that had to be made, not saying the device is lovely (it seems neat and I want one). In the same interview he afterwards mentions that they don't have a calculus around counting on attach rate (to make up for a theoretical loss). And while storage in the base model is the "only" thing different, that's also a pretty big thing. The entire existence of a 64GB slow storage SKU is an example of a "painful" decision, and it's so meagre to the point of being comparable to the White Wii U, or the later models of iPhone 16GB, where you eventually couldn't even have enough space to do OS upgrades. How many Steam games right off the bat are incompatible with that model because they require more space?
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Jul 19, 2021 00:43
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Also the Deck has gyro, full size sticks, and capacitive buttons / sticks which no other handheld has.
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Jul 19, 2021 00:45
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Escape Goat posted:How many Steam games right off the bat are incompatible with that model because they require more space? Well death stranding a game they showed in the video wouldn’t fit on the 64. There’s a decent handful at least.
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Jul 19, 2021 00:48
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ExcessBLarg! posted:What about the specifications jump out to you as being sacrificed? - SD card interface is slower than it could be (cost cutting or upselling NVMe, take your pick) - Only a single USB port - No Wifi 6 Little things that aren't really dealbreakers but would have been nice to have
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Jul 19, 2021 00:58
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repiv posted:- SD card interface is slower than it could be (cost cutting or upselling NVMe, take your pick) TBF to the wifi thing during the Aya Neo build process they sent out an email saying they had to find a whole new wifi chip because the shortage is so bad right now. I have to imagine they didn’t go 6 because of that. The USB port thing sucks I absolutely agree.
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Jul 19, 2021 01:01
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