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I wonder what the anti-cheat stuff will entail, it's tricky since the openness of Linux is at odds with restricting what the user is allowed to do Maybe there will be a "trusted mode" where EAC/BE work as long as you're running a kernel/drivers/proton/etc signed by Valve, and if you tinker too much they lock you out of those games?
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Jul 17, 2021 22:12
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I know they don't have to upstream anything, what I mean is you might be required to use Valves official binaries of important system components for the anti-cheats to work Being able to build your own Proton from source is a pretty massive surface area for manipulating the game without having to tamper with the game itself, so I would assume that's not allowed
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Jul 17, 2021 22:31
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Veotax posted:Basically I'm asking if I would be able to install the Epic Store on this thing to play Hitman 3 without having to dualboot Windows 10 or something. Hitman 3 works with a bit of finagling apparently https://software.kaminata.net/linux-wine-games/hitman-3-linux-wine/ edit: should probably note that Proton is constantly improving so by the time the Deck actually ships it might be smoother sailing repiv fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jul 17, 2021 |
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Jul 17, 2021 23:28
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It's been discussed to death in the Steam thread but for the sake of the new thread We now know the Steam Deck uses standard m.2 2230 SSD modules, so in principle it should be possible to upgrade the base 64GB model if you end up regretting it. The m.2 slot isn't designed to be easily user accessible like say, the one in the PS5, and we don't know yet how difficult it will be to access. The type of SSD they are using is less common and more expensive than typical m.2 drives, but they can be found for cheaper than Valves upgrade prices and are available up to 1TB rather than the 512GB max Valve is offering.
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Jul 17, 2021 23:38
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The M1 has hardware extensions specifically to facilitate fast x86 emulation, and no other ARM core on the market has anything equivalent Maybe... eventually?
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Jul 18, 2021 00:07
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Raffles posted:I don't know if this is true for m.2 2230 drives, however some higher capacity 2280 drives (4/8TB) can be too thick to comfortably fit into laptop enclosures, causing stress on the drive and other internals. That's a good call, I checked the Toshiba/Kioxia BG4 and there is a small difference in the 1TB version https://business.kioxia.com/en-emea/ssd/client-ssd/bg4.html They are all single sided boards, but the 128GB-512GB versions are M.2 2230-S2 format (1.35mm component thickness) while the 1TB version is M.2 2230-S3 format (1.50mm components) https://www.sandisk.com/content/dam/sandisk-main/en_us/assets/resources/data-sheets/Western-Digital-PC-SN520-Commercial-Datasheet.pdf Sandisk/WD 2230 drives on the other hand are all S3 (1.50mm), even the lower capacity ones. Is the Steam Deck so tightly packed that 0.15mm will make or break drive compatibility? Probably not but who knows! repiv fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 00:16
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Though I think some people are going to be disappointed by the battery life. Two hours of 3D gaming is pretty low. simply tape a 25,000mAh powerbank to the back, bringing the whole unit to a mere 1.2 kilograms
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Jul 18, 2021 00:53
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v1ld posted:Or attach via a USB C cable for not much extra weight. That's what I do with the Switch and a 20k mAh power bank. now i think of it, since the usb port is on the top there isn't much impediment to just using a wall charger and long usb cable if you're playing on a couch or in bed or something it's not like the switch where the port is awkwardly placed to use while gaming
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Jul 18, 2021 01:10
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ideally it would have two usbs, one at the top and one at the bottom for docking, but presumably that was cost optimized away
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Jul 18, 2021 01:13
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very unlikely something that requires a PCB respin and changes to the plastic injection molds would change this late in the game they need to start cranking these out sooner rather than later to build up a decent amount of stock before launch
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Jul 18, 2021 01:20
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Valve is really bad at hardware distribution so I wouldn't hold your breath unfortunately The Index has been around for 2 years and it's still only available in these countries quote:Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom, United States
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Jul 18, 2021 01:47
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bloodysabbath posted:Given that the screen is only 720p, what are the chances that it actually does fairly well with AAA games for the foreseeable future? The napkin math is that the GPU is proportionally as powerful rendering 720p as the new generation consoles are when rendering 4K, but the CPU is only half as powerful as the new consoles. It's gonna depend largely on how CPU heavy the game is going forward. Shammypants posted:Here's another question, for streaming services like Netflix and Amazon, will this device be able to stream to a television in 4k? The device can physically output 4K, but 4K video streaming on the default SteamOS might be problematic due to the DRM they use. Higher qualities like 4K usually have stricter DRM requirements that I doubt Linux can fulfil. It'll probably work fine if you install Windows on it though. repiv fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 02:03
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flavor.flv posted:I wonder if you could use this thing for vr. It meets the minimum specs for HL:Alyx, strap this onto your belt and plug in an oculus quest and you might have something I don't see why it wouldn't work, but with Air Link being as good as it is there isn't much point doing a wired connection
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Jul 18, 2021 16:21
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If Valve is playing the long game then simply getting SteamOS/Proton in the hands of a larger and more casual user base is a benefit for them as well, Gabe really doesn't want to be dependent on Microsoft The more users are actively using Proton, the more game developers will take it seriously and make an effort to target the subset of Windows that plays nice in Proton (in a perfect world i'm sure gabe would prefer native linux ports but that's asking too much at this point)
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Jul 18, 2021 17:53
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Veotax posted:My Switch hasn't been peed on, but I was thinking of getting the OLED model. I have a launch Switch and I was thinking of replacing it last year when I started playing it in portable mode more and wanted to get the new model with the better battery. The OLED one was pushing me to replacing it, but the Steam Deck has changed my mind. Especially if it's good enough to emulate more recent games. If you do sell your launch Switch make sure to sell it as "unpatched" so thirsty  homebrewers will give you lots of money for it
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Jul 18, 2021 21:09
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ExcessBLarg! posted:Yes, it is. Look at how much more expensive the Aya Neo is. That is skewed by the Aya Neos production volume being in the thousands, and Steam Decks projected volume being in the millions though. Valve has a huge lead on economy of scale.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:07
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I wonder if they intend to sell many 64GB models or if it's just there for the "starting at 400 bux" factor It's extremely limiting, and you're stuck with slow SD cards for expansion unless you do m.2 surgery
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Jul 18, 2021 22:47
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ExcessBLarg! posted:What about the specifications jump out to you as being sacrificed? - SD card interface is slower than it could be (cost cutting or upselling NVMe, take your pick) - Only a single USB port - No Wifi 6 Little things that aren't really dealbreakers but would have been nice to have
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Jul 19, 2021 00:58
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PC games are real big now A sampling of 2020/2021 AAAs Cyberpunk - 70GB Horizon ZD - 67GB AC Valhalla - 50GB BLOPS Cold War - 82GB Watch Dogs Legion - 45GB Death Stranding - 55GB Doom Eternal - 43GB Hitman 3 - 60GB Red Dead 2 - 100GB Hell GTA5 is ancient but even that's 65GB You should basically assume that even fitting a single modern AAA game on the 64GB probably isn't happening, unless you resort to running it from the SD card I assume SteamOS is leaner than Windows but that's going to take a chunk out before you even start repiv fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jul 19, 2021 |
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Jul 19, 2021 01:17
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If you run the storage right to the edge there might be issues with installing updates too due to lack of temporary space, I'm not sure how Steam handles that but it's a common complaint on Playstation
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Jul 19, 2021 01:26
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pseudorandom name posted:Steam needs enough space to simultanesouly hold the old version of the file, the delta, and the new version of the file for every changed file in the update. If the update doesn't touch a file, it doesn't need any extra space for that file. Games that use big multi-gigabyte archive files might be a problem then SCheeseman posted:All of those are also on last gen consoles and are designed to also run acceptably well off garbo laptop HDDs. Provided SD storage at least hits the same ballpark as that those games should still be playable. Once games start taking greater advantage of SSDs, that could be a problem. Loading times on those older consoles could get pretty bad, though I suppose a lot of people are still used to that I might actually try running some games from SD on my PC to see how slow it is
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Jul 19, 2021 01:47
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They could do that, in fact some games already separate the highest quality textures into a free "DLC" you can choose not to install
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Jul 19, 2021 01:52
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Senator Drinksalot posted:Isn't the point of the deck that it's way more powerful than the switch and can do the prettier games natively instead of streamed? Yeah, but with a 720p screen it really doesn't need the gigantic 4K textures modern AAAs are dragging around
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Jul 19, 2021 01:58
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:This article compares PC game load times between a variety of drives in several AAA games. The one HDD in the dataset is a 5400 RPM one which is slower than the MicroSD class Valve chose in theory, but I don't know how that shakes out in practice. 5400RPM drives can be surprisingly speedy at higher capacities (higher platter density = more data read per rotation), the 12TB one they tested gets 194MB/sec sequential read I just tested a decent SD card I had handy (Sandisk Ultra 64GB UHS-I) through a USB3 adapter and only got half that 
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Jul 19, 2021 02:25
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There is still one unknown with the Decks SD interface, it's UHS-I which is supposed to max out at 105MB/sec (like my Sandisk Ultra) but some SD cards (like the Sandisk Extremes) support an unofficial extension of UHS-I that pushes it to 160-170MB/sec It's not clear at this point whether the Deck will utilize those faster non-standard modes
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Jul 19, 2021 02:56
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Speaking of developers adapting their Switch port work to the Deck https://twitter.com/shrugtal/status/1417055065366487045?s=19
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Jul 19, 2021 12:35
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The Steam version of RetroArch only has a subset of the cores (licensing difficulties?) so in some cases it might be preferable to install it manually The set of cores they are launching with looks pretty well rounded though Mupen64 Plus Next (N64) Kronos (Saturn) PCSX ReARMed (PS1) Stella (Atari) SameBoy (Gameboy) mGBA (GB/GBA) Mesen (NES) Mesen S (SNES) Genesis Plus GX (all sega 8/16bit stuff) Final Burn Neo (arcade)
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Jul 19, 2021 15:57
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Saoshyant posted:Wait, where did they say this? 'Cause that's a big WANT for me too. Say what, touchscreen? It's there on the official specs sheet I would assume it just maps to mouse input by default so OSU should just work Speaking of the specs they updated them again, it now says the dock has a 90 degree USB cable rather than the jank straight one in that preview video
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Jul 19, 2021 17:30
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vaginite posted:Oh that kicks rear end. I love the switch for Indie games, PC is just too big a footprint if I want to sit on my couch and play. But the Switch store sucks and some of the games (i.e. Binding of Isaac) are always way behind the PC versions on the updates. Being able to maybe playing higher end PC games that are controller friendly is just a bonus. The other thing is they've said it follows all the USB-C standards, so if the dock ends up being overpriced or you want more ports you can pick up any random USB-C laptop dock and it should work. Plus if you have a monitor with USB-C you should be able to plug it into the Deck directly with no dock at all.
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Jul 19, 2021 22:44
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Kirios posted:Hopefully it handles the dock as seamless as the Switch does - I think that's gonna be the #1 thing that will make me decide if I want it or not. I doubt it will be as seamless as the Switch, you can't really force a game to change resolution so the only way to transition seamlessly would be to output 1280x800 from the dock, which isn't ideal Switch games have to go out of their way to handle the transition between docked and portable
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Jul 19, 2021 22:57
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https://twitter.com/lawrenceyang/status/1416485869091913728 Not that IGN really showed games loading, but still
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Jul 19, 2021 23:03
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The Deck got a stealth spec bumphttps://web.archive.org/web/20210717215845/https://www.steamdeck.com/en/tech posted:16 GB LPDDR5 on-board RAM (5500 MT/s dual-channel) https://www.steamdeck.com/en/tech posted:16 GB LPDDR5 on-board RAM (5500 MT/s quad 32-bit channels) ram go faster
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Jul 20, 2021 01:27
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MarcusSA posted:It would be a really big win for the steam os if it could set TDP on a per game basis. Right now it requires user intervention and it’s a bit of a pain to figure out which settings work best. Shouldn't that be mostly automatic as long as you enable vsync? If it's not using the full performance of the chip to hit 60fps it should be able to downclock itself A toggle to force half-vsync at 30fps would be good though
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Jul 20, 2021 01:41
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The fast RAM is mostly for the iGPU's benefit. Modern graphics cards are designed with ridiculously fast GDDR6 (or GDDR6X in the 30 series' case). However, single-chip SoCs not only have to share memory between the CPU and GPU, but the GPU has to use regular system memory for VRAM which is several times slower than your typical graphics card's memory. It's easily the biggest bottleneck for AMD's faster APUs in games. The LPDDR5 in Steam Deck's configuration is meant to act as a power efficient way to get somewhat close to GDDR6 levels of performance. It's hard to tell how fast it will be exactly, but it's definitely going to be faster than your current desktop PC's memory, which is great. If I'm interpreting the spec sheet correctly the Deck has 44GB/sec per module, and (LP)DDR5 has two channels per module, so the quad channel config is two modules at 88GB/sec total That's a lot for non-graphics memory but still on the low side compared to GDDR, the closest comparison would be something like a GTX1050 The Switch only has 25.6GB/sec memory so it's running circles around that at least repiv fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Jul 20, 2021 |
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Jul 20, 2021 12:32
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ETA PRIME tried to tweak an AMD APU system to approximate the performance of the Steam Deck and see how it performs at 720p It's not a perfect match as this APU has older Vega graphics instead of RDNA2 but he boosted the clock a bit to compensate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bfQl4XXlH0&t=323s Seems respectable in any case
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Jul 20, 2021 16:40
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I wonder if the new bits of Proton to enable anti-cheat support are tied up in NDAs and they need to separate that stuff out before doing the source code drop
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Jul 20, 2021 17:18
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It's the year of Linux on the handheld 
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Jul 20, 2021 18:34
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Floob posted:I just put my deposit down on the large one. I hate limited storage... Is there any reliable source for compatible games right now? I play plenty of the older titles I'm sure will be fine, but Steam has quite a library now. I am wondering if Everquest will play, or Eve Online. So many titles. https://www.protondb.com/app/205710 https://www.protondb.com/app/201230 https://www.protondb.com/app/8500 that's a "no" on everquest 1 and a "mixed" on everquest 2 and eve online but you can always install windows on it instead of using steamos
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Jul 20, 2021 20:54
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tired: windows on the steam deck wired: linux on the steam deck inspired: hackintosh on the steam deck
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Jul 21, 2021 01:01
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I would not expect any demanding 3D game running through Proton to run well at all on the steam deck. There's a site that benchmarks games on Proton vs. Windows native: https://flightlessmango.com Rule of thumb seems to be Proton runs most games at about 90% of the speed of Windows Games that use Vulkan on Windows are the exception as Vulkan can be passed through on Linux with no translation overhead, but not that many games use Vulkan, DirectX 11 and 12 are dominant
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Jul 21, 2021 01:27
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