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I took it as a given once I read it was running a Linux desktop underneath, but its dawning on me that having Discord is a big deal. Makes the Deck fantastic for multiplayer gaming in a way that the Switch couldn't ever compete with. I assume Valve aren't talking about it because they're competitors, maybe they should anyway because I know people on Switch have been begging for it.
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Jul 17, 2021 21:55
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They've at least planned to get it all working before launch, which is a timeline as opposed to "we're doing our best!".
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Jul 17, 2021 22:00
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repiv posted:I wonder what the anti-cheat stuff will entail, it's tricky since the openness of Linux is at odds with restricting what the user is allowed to do I presume Valve can do whatever they want, they're almost certainly already using their own repositories to deal with system updates, they can patch anything without it needing to go upstream and get merged.
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Jul 17, 2021 22:23
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Running locked down Proton containers for games that use anti-cheat is fine and expected. It's not like I'm going to want to choose the kernel and software components that don't have all the optimizations and compatibility fixes I want and for anyone who is buying the thing to just play games it won't matter at all. For the paranoid few who don't trust the changes they can sacrifice compatibility for perceived security if they wish.
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Jul 17, 2021 23:14
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Shammypants posted:Look, I don't know enough about this stuff to confidently say anything, but there were headline stories about how the Deck might not be able to play X, Y, Z because of issues with anti-cheat software and later it was headline news that they were collaborating to make sure it works with Proton day 1. I'm not sure if we should have been confident that it was guaranteed or what but the news cycle seems to indicate that it requires at least some considerable effort to get it working. I'm speaking with the assumption that Valve can do what they say they can do, it's absolutely a possibility that they will fall short of that. Veotax posted:So how does Proton work? I've never used Linux so I've never looked into it. Would more or less any Windows app be able to run through it? Proton is a lot of things mushed together. At it's core it's a custom version of Wine inside a container (sort of like a Virtual Machine) that's designed to allow for the seamless launching of games from Steam. But it can work independent from Steam too, there's a Linux program called Lutris that makes it relatively easy to set up and use. Wine Is Not an Emulator, but a re-implementation of "win32", the application platform most of the Windows applications and games you use run upon (there is also UWP apps which you get from the Microsoft Store, those are not compatible). While it may sound like it could have a performance impact, in practice there usually isn't (outside of graphics, more on that next paragraph) and occasionally performance can be better than running the same software on Windows. There have been some performance issues in the past but Valve has been actively working to fix them, including submitting new features to the Linux kernel to bridge gaps between it and the Windows kernel. Wrapping Direct3D was a significant cause of overhead in the past, largely as it was wrapping to OpenGL, a high level graphics API. Now all of the wrappers used translate to Vulkan, minimizing overhead. Any game that runs OpenGL or Vulkan on Windows doesn't have to go through those translation layers. Poor drivers on Linux was also a problem, but that has also been solved, AMD drivers on Linux are now outright fantastic. Valve are aiming for total compatibility with their own software library, but that isn't every Windows app and it remains to be seen how close they get. e: Another thing to keep in mind that a lot of the applications you may use on Windows have native Linux versions. Discord, Spotify, Chrome, even Microsoft Edge. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 17, 2021 |
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Jul 17, 2021 23:39
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I can't wait to play Cruelty Squad on the toilet, where it's supposed to be played.
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Jul 17, 2021 23:56
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Raffles posted:I don't know if this is true for m.2 2230 drives, however some higher capacity 2280 drives (4/8TB) can be too thick to comfortably fit into laptop enclosures, causing stress on the drive and other internals. I found a few single sided 1TB drives out there when I looked, seems most of what I could find got pulled out of enclosures and put on ebay.
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Jul 18, 2021 00:11
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I think it will be quite capable, but I would temper your expectations. It's still running at a reduced power state compared to laptop chips. They seem to be optimizing it for gaming by skimping slightly on the CPU side and going in a bit harder on the GPU side, which is good. I think it will run some demanding games at 720p, but you may have to accept turning down some settings and running at 30fps. That's still quite good for a handheld, mind you. I also expect it to not have particularly good longevity. You'll run into games that are just not playable on it by the end of 2022, I reckon. It'll still be solid for emulation, 2D games, and undemanding 3D games. I bet Valve releases new models at a relatively swift cadence if it sells well. The GPU should be fine. It mostly depends on how scalable games continue to be in terms of CPU usage, specifically how they deal with having half the amount of cores they do on consoles (single thread performance is about the same). If Valve make enough of a dent in the market, developers and publishers may end up incentivised to make sure their games run on it, adding options to reduce NPC density and the like.
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Jul 18, 2021 05:53
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Valve is hoping other hardware manufacturers hop on board this trend, so with lots of different SteamOS handhelds on the market there won't be any one spec to optimize for. And it's also why I think Valve will continue putting out new models every couple years for as long as it's profitable for them. If this doesn't catch on, then they'll drop it as quickly as they've dropped everything else, though. It's going to be a while before we see 8 core CPUs running at 3.5Ghz in a gaming handheld. If more devices are coming the specs will likely be in the same ballpark as the Deck. Unless Intel pulls a rabbit out of their hat. I agree that it doesn't make sense for other manufacturers to enter the market now, unless major game publishers like Epic or EA wanna join the hardware train.
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Jul 18, 2021 07:27
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It turned into this, a product that fixes just about all of steam machines problems. SteamOS being open to use by third parties is more a side effect of relying heavily on open source software rather that it being a necessary part of the platforms and products success. Getting other hardware makers to use it would be a win, but it isn't something they have to count on to happen.
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Jul 18, 2021 10:41
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Doesn't everyone have phones for that? But yeah.
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Jul 18, 2021 11:19
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Escape Goat posted:How many Steam games right off the bat are incompatible with that model because they require more space? Very, very few. Some of the newer AAA titles? I don't see the small storage being that big of a deal, nor is it quite comparable to devices where the storage is soldered in. Having to peel off heat/EM shielding is annoying but if the hardware is like any of Valve's other stuff, it won't be too hard to open and service.
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Jul 19, 2021 01:05
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repiv posted:PC games are real big now All of those are also on last gen consoles and are designed to also run acceptably well off garbo laptop HDDs. Provided SD storage at least hits the same ballpark as that those games should still be playable. Once games start taking greater advantage of SSDs, that could be a problem. MysteriousStranger posted:It's not made for that though. It's made for a poo poo load of lighter games to bite into consoles and claim "PC master race" that's it. It is, AAA gaming is a selling point in Valve's own marketing materials. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jul 19, 2021 |
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Jul 19, 2021 01:33
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The Switch is CPU constrained to the point where it isn't really capable of running AAA titles outside of extremely optimized titles like the Doom games or by going super potato mode like Witcher 3. It requires enormous effort and investment by publishers and devs too. At 720p, running at lower textures isn't really a pared down experience as the difference would be imperceptible. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jul 19, 2021 |
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Jul 19, 2021 02:04
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Senator Drinksalot posted:Realistically how many games do you really need at one time on a device that gets 2 hours of battery life? I have choice anxiety on my desktop and I want it in my hands too tyvm
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Jul 19, 2021 02:11
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LordAdakos posted:I don't know about this. On one hand, it looks super loving cool. On the other, steam has kind of a shoddy track record with hardware. Where does this narrative come from? Steam Boxes were unambiguously a failure but Link (the hardware) was a success, up until the point where it became obsolete as smart TVs could just run it as an app. Not that they dropped support, the last Steam Link hardware update was a few months ago. Steam Controller spawned Steam Input and aspects of it's design were incorporated into the Deck, as a result its still actively supported by valve despite being out of production. Vive and Index are niche, but they also get continued software support. E: Steam Boxes weren't Valve hardware either, it was a thing third parties could participate in if they wanted (they didn't). That failed initiative did result in them putting a ton of effort into whipping Linux and Wine into shape which has resulted in this product. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Jul 19, 2021 |
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Jul 19, 2021 12:04
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VR is cool, but if people want to argue about its merits or not then there is probably better thread for that (mine!).
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Jul 19, 2021 22:17
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grieving for Gandalf posted:emulating consoles requires a lot of power beyond what the actual strength of the original hardware is. I don't know if Yuzu is particularly efficient but I'm not really counting on that in the slightest The Switch's CPUs are garbage, the only thing that could be considered powerful (relatively) in the Switch is its graphics and that often doesn't require significantly more powerful hardware to emulate since you can do so at an API level.
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Jul 19, 2021 22:52
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I perused through the Proton compatibility list the other day and it definitely reminds me of emulator compatibility, with all the unreliability that entails. Games that work great on some people's PCs but not others, users giving the thumbs up for "perfect" compatibility because their $2000 PC runs a game fine at 60 FPS (even though they'd get 100+ in Windows), lots of little random issues popping up that need game-specific workarounds for everything (on top of the existing pc game jank people already deal with). I mean, it IS cool that it's possible at all and better than Wine in a lot of cases, but unless Valve's secret sauce is going to radically change how Proton works in some way I wouldn't want to rely on it, especially on an underpowered handheld. I would not expect any demanding 3D game running through Proton to run well at all on the steam deck. Checking ProtonDB is a good way to see what games will definitely work, but keep in mind that listings there come from users with an infinite combination of different hardware and software setups while Valve only have to get things working on one hardware SKU and have total control over the software stack. For example if a game relies on some weird quirk or feature in the which doesn't have a Linux equivalent, they could patch it in without waiting for their changes to make it upstream to the Linux kernel or whatever. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 01:25
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Ray traced reflections at something like half resolution may be doable at 720p too? Might end up a little noisy and soft but the low resolution could hide that a bit.
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Jul 21, 2021 23:21
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repiv posted:I've been perusing ProtonDB a bunch and I just can't see casual users getting along with this level of jank, unless Valve pulls off a miracle with the private branch they're sitting on. There's been compatibility lists being compiled for handheld gaming PCs for a while now. A fair chunk of Windows games crash if you put the PC to sleep, older games require graphics wrappers in order to display properly etc. Installing Windows isn't going to be a be-all end-all solution.
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Jul 23, 2021 04:03
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RDR2 on Windows already has a Vulkan renderer, a native Linux port isn't likely to be any better. It would be useful for Windows versions of games to merge in Vulkan renderers made for Stadia!
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Jul 23, 2021 04:34
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repiv posted:https://twitter.com/feralgames/status/1420036822466502667 They should move to D3D>Vulkan renderer backend ports instead, there's enough performance to be gained there that it'd be worth it for a lot of the bigger titles.
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Jul 28, 2021 03:50
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Do you think total compatibility with Steam's entire library (which is what Valve say they're shooting for) is actually possible? I've spoken to developers associated with Wine who are skeptical of the achievability of that goal.
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Aug 8, 2021 02:41
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Yes, thank you! You're doing awesome work.
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Aug 8, 2021 11:48
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Barreft posted:well its not just a handheld. The dock makes a full mini pc. There's many reasons to install windows, though I agree if you're just handheld alone not much. The dock will just be a stand with a standard USB-C breakout box inside. I have a generic dongle that I use with my phone on my desk with HDMI, 3 USB-A ports and charging pass-through that will likely work just fine, cost 20 bucks.
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Sep 22, 2021 03:08
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First memories of Mario 64 was using Ultra HLE through a jank rear end Glide wrapper bring it on.
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Sep 25, 2021 23:29
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It's mostly the same as what's in the consoles. Zen 2 and RDNA2. Switch emulation is too much to expect out of the Deck unless those emulators make massive gains in CPU emulation efficiency at some point. Cemu seems doable though.
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Oct 6, 2021 12:44
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Is that the raw speed or access times, though?
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Oct 16, 2021 05:34
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You go to forums for people talking about trivial bullshit that doesn't matter, not "news".
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Oct 16, 2021 05:58
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MarcusSA posted:Ok thanks but maybe my understanding was incorrect in that this was only for games that were on steam. So like my non steam copy of FFXIV wouldn’t be able to use this. Would be pretty awesome if I was incorrect though. You can add external games to your steam library and they'll use proton, but compatibility can be spottier than using something like Lutris, which has game specific profiles and tweaks.
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Nov 8, 2021 22:44
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Stealing Mario is a PC tradition.
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Nov 13, 2021 19:46
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They're already doing something similar with other WMF titles, but I would expect it requires direct permission from the publisher. In the mean time there's ProtonGE, which is an annoying extra step to install but once you do you can set the game to use it in Steam's interface and it'll work.
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Jan 22, 2022 10:50
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Are re-encodes still required?
SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jan 22, 2022 |
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Jan 22, 2022 16:58
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Presumably that pirate smartphone port cheats performance a bit since most phones run the same CPU architecture as switch, ARM>x86 emulation is a lot of overhead and Deck's CPUs aren't clocked particularly high.
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Jan 30, 2022 21:27
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The United States posted:More Steam Deck Tech Info Valve has had GPD Wins at their offices since their launch, keeping in mind that it's form factor was more 3DS than Switch. The success of Switch may have helped rally the troops but there was a lot more going on that helped make Deck happen.
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Jan 31, 2022 20:05
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Senator Drinksalot posted:That top one looks horrendous to play on It's not great. The bigger issue is the wobbly triggers, some of the worst I've ever used. But it was the first of it's kind, portable Fallout New Vegas was a hell of a novelty.
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Jan 31, 2022 20:59
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Feels Villeneuve posted:this seems like an extremely poor solution, in terms of muscle memory The solution that doesn't require weirdly contorting your hands and fingers is the better one. imo
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Feb 1, 2022 00:19
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Remapping to the rear gives simultaneous access to the all face button functions, the stick and left bumper and trigger. Claw grip sucks, it requires holding the controller in a way it wasn't meant to be held, which is made worse when the controller is actually a portable game system.
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Feb 1, 2022 00:25
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Quantum of Phallus posted:It feels like there are a shocking amount of people buying this product they don’t really know anything about. I’m not talking about waiting for reviews, I mean what it actually looks like and has been advertised to do. There hasn't really been anything else like it. Closest is GPD Win and it's followups and derivatives, but those used off the shelf hardware, software and are iffy quality at best. SteamOS is exciting, but I foresee a rough launch. Thinking Switch and PS3 emulation are going to run well is extremely optimistic. For new AAA titles at medium-low at 30fps, should be great.
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Feb 1, 2022 00:49
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