What should football do about headers?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Ray Parlour > What should football do about headers?

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Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

The Athletic had a really great piece about heading.

Football players are 3.5x more likely to die with dementia than regular people.
Female football players are twice as likely as male players to develop concussions and brain injuries.
The English Premier League has recently recommended that players perform only 10 "higher-force" headers per training week (e.g., from corners, crosses, free kicks or >35m passes)
74% of headers take place outside the penalty box -- one compromise could be to ban such headers while allowing those inside the box

quote:

Is heading absolutely necessary to the game of football?

The latest research has discovered former professionals are three and a half times more likely than members of the public to die with dementia.

Dr Willie Stewart of the University of Glasgow, who led that project, has not called for an outright ban on heading. He evidently doesn�t consider that his place.

Instead, he has asked us to consider a very specific question: �Is heading absolutely necessary to the game of football?�

[...]

I would argue, in certain situations, it is. And if not strictly necessary, it�s certainly desirable, a fundamental part of scoring and preventing goals. Headers account for, depending upon the competition and the season, between 15-20 per cent of all goals, and taking them away would rob us of some unpredictability and diversity in attacking situations.

But professional clubs have now been told that players should only perform 10 �higher-force� headers per training week. They are being advised rather than policed, and players are expected to keep count of their own headers. (Good luck to the trialist who decides to pull out of an aerial challenge in a training match later today, on the basis that it would be his 11th higher-force header of the week.)

It�s difficult to see the recommendations being followed, and it�s also worth asking whether it�s actually more dangerous to require players to become involved in competitive aerial duels if they�re not accustomed to practising them regularly in training.

Ask the players themselves, and it seems likely they�ll want heading to remain in football. Former Everton and Scotland defender David Weir says that banning heading would be going �too far�, and former Liverpool and England defender Jamie Carragher wrote a column for the Telegraph saying that even if he develops dementia in later life, he won�t regret his career � he knew the risks.

[...]

We don�t have to outlaw headers just yet, but what if we banned them from outside the penalty areas?

Well, in statistical terms we would � overnight � reduce the number of headers in football by around 74 per cent based upon data from every Premier League game over the past three seasons.

[...]

I don�t know your choice, but I�m almost certain that your favourite header will have ended up in the net. And I�m also confident that said headed goal will have happened inside a penalty area � not since 2002-03 has a Premier League header been scored from outside one.

[...]

A large proportion of headers made outside the penalty areas are relatively meaningless. They�re simply contesting 50-50 balls in the air, which lead to 50-50 balls on the ground, and while there�s something to admire about an aerially dominant centre-back or a target-man capable of clever flick-ons, it�s less certain that these moments are necessary in football.

It is also that type of header that surely causes the most damage. Anyone who has played football at any level knows there�s a world of difference in the feeling between a flicked near-post header as a striker, and being a centre-back and getting underneath one of those horrible, 60-yard looping drop kicks from the opposition goalkeeper that accelerate as they plummet back to Earth.

Is that type of situation really a necessary part of football? I�m not sure it is.

It�s definitely not necessary in youth football. Many of us were accustomed to playing �Below head-height� at an early age anyway, and it is clearly in the youth ranks where reform is most immediately required.

It is also worth considering the women�s game separately from the men�s.

As Dr Stewart explained to the digital, culture, media and sport select committee earlier this year, �A lot of the research has gone on into male elite sport and not so much on female elite sport. What does concern me is that while the rules for women�s and men�s football are exactly the same, the risk of concussion in women�s football is about twice that in men�s football. So the risk of brain injury is double.�

The women�s game, therefore, should be doubly concerned about whether heading is necessary for its game. Stats tell us there are, at least, around 20 per cent fewer aerial duels in the Women�s Super League compared to the Premier League, although you could make the argument that if heading is less of a factor in women�s football, it wouldn�t matter so much if it is restricted.

Such a law change would obviously alter football. But long goal kicks are increasingly rare at the top level anyway and will gradually vanish further down the ladder, too. Hacked clearances and hopeful long balls would just have to be controlled with feet. Throw-ins would be received in a different manner. Players who can control the ball effectively with their chest might become more vaunted.

Soon, the medical research could be so overwhelmingly conclusive that defending the concept of heading will be akin to defending riders not wearing helmets in the Tour de France.

Heading is such a core feature of the game, but I do think football's at a moment of reckoning. These days it feels awful to see heads clatter together in a game. You just know they're suffering some permanent brain damage that isn't gonna be apparent for decades. The idea of banning headers outside the box makes sense to me and is probably a fair compromise to try.

# ? Aug 15, 2021 16:28

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# ? May 4, 2024 18:51

Famethrowa: Oct 5, 2012

if we are being realistic, but lol good luck at getting those out

# ? Aug 15, 2021 16:54

the sex ghost: Sep 6, 2009

Good thread OP. Have been thinking about it on and off since they decided to limit headers in training the other week.

Feel like they're starting to have the same issues that they have in modern rugby where every player on the pitch is stronger and quicker than they've ever been and the forces involved in a clash of heads are starting to cause problems. Would be very weird for the first few seasons seeing players giving away indirect free kicks because they're instinctively going up to flick on a goal kick or whatever, but then in 20 years you'll have a new generation of players who've been trained from the beginning that using your head is like using your hands.

# ? Aug 15, 2021 17:18

Bogan Krkic: Oct 31, 2010; Swedish style? No.
Yugoslavian style? Of course not.
It has to be Zlatan-style.

Every player should be allowed to do 1 header per match and any after that is an indirect free kick

# ? Aug 15, 2021 19:30

paddyboat: Feb 20, 2013; Maxi, Maxi Rodriguez
Run down the wing for me

as always, we should just follow the wisdom of Kevin Keegan

# ? Aug 15, 2021 20:23

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

the sex ghost posted:

Good thread OP. Have been thinking about it on and off since they decided to limit headers in training the other week.

Feel like they're starting to have the same issues that they have in modern rugby where every player on the pitch is stronger and quicker than they've ever been and the forces involved in a clash of heads are starting to cause problems. Would be very weird for the first few seasons seeing players giving away indirect free kicks because they're instinctively going up to flick on a goal kick or whatever, but then in 20 years you'll have a new generation of players who've been trained from the beginning that using your head is like using your hands.

Yeah I think this is right. The toughest thing is always making a rule change because everyone currently playing the game has always played it the current way, but ultimately as long as the rules change consistently players will adapt. In the end it's football not headball and maybe it is worth trialing no headers outside the penalty area. I have a feeling the game of football would be fine without them.

Also this part of the article in the OP

quote:

Players who can control the ball effectively with their chest might become more vaunted.

just made me think that somewhere in the world Marouane Fellaini's ears perked up

# ? Aug 15, 2021 20:51

Eau de MacGowan: May 12, 2009; BRASIL HEXA
2026 tá logo aí

what if only one person was allowed to head the ball, a designated headerer that comes on for corners and set pieces like the kicker in american football, only he's a massive unit with prior brain damage so nothing's lost

# ? Aug 15, 2021 20:54

Shrapnig: Jan 21, 2005

Eau de MacGowan posted:

what if only one person was allowed to head the ball, a designated headerer that comes on for corners and set pieces like the kicker in american football, only he's a massive unit with prior brain damage so nothing's lost

Angling for a career change are we?

# ? Aug 15, 2021 21:18

Gigi Galli: Sep 19, 2003; and then the car turned in to fire

That�s an interesting article and a good idea for a thread. What they fail to really address (and it�s probably because the data doesn�t exist) is if those headers outside the box are what�s majorly contributing to these long term injuries. It seems like me and you recycling our beer cans when the coal electricity plant 50 miles away is spewing poo poo in to the air 24 hours a day convinced we are helping. It does matter but are the gains going to be that big? I guess if even one person doesn�t get a lifelong brain injury it�s a success but there will have to be more done.

I think it�s absolutely worth trying, and maybe not heading outside the box will lead to less heading in general by future players. I just don�t expect it to do much in the near future and I hope the studies continue.

# ? Aug 15, 2021 21:41

Gigi Galli: Sep 19, 2003; and then the car turned in to fire

Famethrowa posted:

if we are being realistic, but lol good luck at getting those out

I honestly wonder if this would work to prevent the damage in question. Everyone was making GBS threads their pants about the halo device in F1 before it was implemented and now nobody says anything. It has saved lives, and the racing hasn�t gotten any worse (because of the device anyway).

# ? Aug 15, 2021 21:43

Famethrowa: Oct 5, 2012

Gigi Galli posted:

I honestly wonder if this would work to prevent the damage in question. Everyone was making GBS threads their pants about the halo device in F1 before it was implemented and now nobody says anything. It has saved lives, and the racing hasn’t gotten any worse (because of the device anyway).

I can't imagine it hurting. Reading the article, my mind went to those awful jarring falls that happen just as part of normal play. Especially when they land flat on back and risk bumping their head through momentum.

I also am really struggling to imagine football without nod-ons. What would a 50-50 look like? Would it still be dangerous having players potentially running and jumping with their chest?

# ? Aug 15, 2021 21:54

sticksy: May 26, 2004; Nap Ghost

iirc they found the effects of CTE in NFL players was not so much from the concussions, which obviously didn�t help, rather the thousands of times helmets/heads hit one another in mundane activities, not dissimilar to headers in training.

I agree with the comments about the rule changes, it�ll be fascinating to see what if any meaningful steps are taken to address it, as particularly in England, I think The Big Strong Center Forward (or CB) archetype is particularly admired so culturally I could see significant resistance and the �game is gone� mob to protest.

# ? Aug 16, 2021 01:16

CyberPingu: Sep 15, 2013; If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

Gigi Galli posted:

I honestly wonder if this would work to prevent the damage in question. Everyone was making GBS threads their pants about the halo device in F1 before it was implemented and now nobody says anything. It has saved lives, and the racing hasn’t gotten any worse (because of the device anyway).

If you look at NFL stuff if anything adding pads encourages people to go in harder. Slightly different here but people might be less cautious during corners etc.

# ? Aug 16, 2021 08:20

Mickolution: Oct 1, 2005; Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

Famethrowa posted:

I also am really struggling to imagine football without nod-ons. What would a 50-50 look like?

That's one of the main problems in implementing anything like this. Do defenders just have to allow goal kicks go passed them? What about free-kicks? Can the wall not jump? Does a player on the line just have to let the ball go over his head? No idea what the answer is to any of these, but any changes would fundamentally alter the game.

I was listening to a podcast the other day where they were taking about how football was the only sport they could think of that uses the head and how insane that is when you take a step back.

# ? Aug 16, 2021 09:58

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Mickolution posted:

That's one of the main problems in implementing anything like this. Do defenders just have to allow goal kicks go passed them? What about free-kicks? Can the wall not jump? Does a player on the line just have to let the ball go over his head? No idea what the answer is to any of these, but any changes would fundamentally alter the game.

I was listening to a podcast the other day where they were taking about how football was the only sport they could think of that uses the head and how insane that is when you take a step back.

I think all those things would lead to adjustments in play rather than fundamental changes. You'd probably see defensive lines a yard or two farther back so that those long goal kicks land on defenders' chests instead of heads, for example, and against teams that don't adapt to this well you might see more goals scored by lobbing the ball past the defensive line. But since the rules would be the same for both teams, they could both benefit or suffer from the change equally. As sex ghost said, it would probably be deeply weird for the first season or two as players who spent their whole careers heading the ball away failed to adapt, but over time they would be replaced by players for whom controlling a goal kick with their chest or foot was as natural as heading it away is for defenders today.

I think the current efforts to make changes at youth levels first before they trickle up to the professional game is part of this, that you start training young players in new ways first so that they're used to them when you change the rules at high levels a few years later.

sticksy posted:

iirc they found the effects of CTE in NFL players was not so much from the concussions, which obviously didn�t help, rather the thousands of times helmets/heads hit one another in mundane activities, not dissimilar to headers in training.

I agree with the comments about the rule changes, it�ll be fascinating to see what if any meaningful steps are taken to address it, as particularly in England, I think The Big Strong Center Forward (or CB) archetype is particularly admired so culturally I could see significant resistance and the �game is gone� mob to protest.

I think this was the idea behind the change to limit headers in training. If you're doing a defensive drill, you're probably doing way more headers in that drill than you do in an actual 90-minute game of football, and that's much more of the repetitive low-impact trauma that causes serious long-term damage.

# ? Aug 16, 2021 15:27

Mickolution: Oct 1, 2005; Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

vyelkin posted:

I think all those things would lead to adjustments in play rather than fundamental changes. You'd probably see defensive lines a yard or two farther back so that those long goal kicks land on defenders' chests instead of heads, for example, and against teams that don't adapt to this well you might see more goals scored by lobbing the ball past the defensive line. But since the rules would be the same for both teams, they could both benefit or suffer from the change equally. As sex ghost said, it would probably be deeply weird for the first season or two as players who spent their whole careers heading the ball away failed to adapt, but over time they would be replaced by players for whom controlling a goal kick with their chest or foot was as natural as heading it away is for defenders today.

I don't know about that. What you're describing is like when the backpass rule came in. That was a minor adjustment that players got used to very quickly and didn't fundamentally change much. With headers though, you're basically saying that if the ball goes over a certain height, defenders can't stop it.

I don't know what the answer is, but I would be very surprised if we saw any reduction in the amount of headers.

# ? Aug 16, 2021 15:36

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

The attacker can't control it or interact with it with their head either, though.

I read the article in the OP and while watching Villa and Watford on Saturday it was striking how much heading was pretty low value "two guys go up together" situations in the middle of the pitch. It would be interesting to see the no heading outside the box trialed in a lower league.

# ? Aug 16, 2021 16:32

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

The attacker can't control it or interact with it with their head either, though.

the attacker has the ball travelling in the direction they want though. they can run onto the ball in the direction of the goal a lot easier if the defender can't just head it clear instead

# ? Aug 16, 2021 22:02

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

What happens if the ball is played from the opposition right back in towards your penalty area, and the attacker takes a deft touch to control it after it goes over your head, but as you try to regain balance you slip on the surface and have to drag yourself towards your goal and your only chance of stopping a one on one is to head the ball?

Could you head it then?

# ? Aug 16, 2021 22:48

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Total Meatlove posted:

What happens if the ball is played from the opposition right back in towards your penalty area, and the attacker takes a deft touch to control it after it goes over your head, but as you try to regain balance you slip on the surface and have to drag yourself towards your goal and your only chance of stopping a one on one is to head the ball?

Could you head it then?

# ? Aug 16, 2021 23:10

sticksy: May 26, 2004; Nap Ghost

I could see a rule similar to that of offside where it depended on the "phase of play" to determine whether or not it was permitted and for it to inevitably be plagued by all of the same stupidity and arguing as VAR has.

# ? Aug 17, 2021 03:53

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Jose posted:

the attacker has the ball travelling in the direction they want though. they can run onto the ball in the direction of the goal a lot easier if the defender can't just head it clear instead

true, it would definitely advantage the attacker but that would be fun and good maybe

# ? Aug 17, 2021 13:10

The Mash: Feb 17, 2007; You have to say I can open my presents

Mickolution posted:

With headers though, you're basically saying that if the ball goes over a certain height, defenders can't stop it.

I mean, isn't this already the case? The suggested change would just lower the bar a bit

# ? Aug 18, 2021 06:20

shut up blegum: Dec 17, 2008; --->Plastic Lawn<---

Replace headers with Higuita style scorpion kicks

# ? Aug 20, 2021 10:27

sebzilla: Mar 17, 2009; Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.

Every midfield aerial 50/50 to be contested via bicycle kicks

# ? Aug 22, 2021 00:35

Gigi Galli: Sep 19, 2003; and then the car turned in to fire

sebzilla posted:

Every midfield aerial 50/50 to be contested via bicycle kicks

Quagliarella extends his career for 10 more years then. I�m in.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 02:04

CyberPingu: Sep 15, 2013; If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

I still find it funny that near 7ft Peter Crouch was better at overhead kicks than he was at heading

# ? Aug 22, 2021 10:48

bewbies: Sep 23, 2003; Fun Shoe

I remember once when I was a teenager we did header practice for a whole training session and every single one of us were complaining about headaches...mine lasted for probably a day. Our coaches were all like IT IS PERFECTLY SAFE YOU PUSSIES. anyway

They should just play a bunch of top-level friendlies with no headers and no other rule changes and see what happens. Then we'd at least some data to work off of.

I'm inclined to think that banning headers outside the area is a good compromise plus it would put very good technical players at more of a premium which is probably a good thing for the entertainment value of the sport. Suddenly the smaller and more skilled center half that can reliably bring a long goal kick down with his chest and then make a good pass is the most sought after player type in the game.

sticksy posted:

iirc they found the effects of CTE in NFL players was not so much from the concussions, which obviously didn�t help, rather the thousands of times helmets/heads hit one another in mundane activities, not dissimilar to headers in training.

Its both, really. You can think of the large numbers of lower force impacts as small concussions with the same effects. The big change in the science is recognizing that they are ALL bad.

The "good news" as it were is it looks like rotational impacts (ie, a boxer/MMA fighter getting punched such that their head rotates rapidly) are far worse than linear impacts (ie, a header), and soccer is virtually devoid of regular rotational impacts now that Joey Barton and Vinnie Jones retired.

The bad news is head protection really doesn't do a great deal to mitigate the problem. Helmets are good for preventing lacerations or impact injuries to the skull, but they don't do a whole lot to slow down the acceleration of the brain INSIDE the skull, which is the mechanism that does most of the damage. American football helmets have gotten better thanks to gobs of money and research but no helmet can prevent the G forces acting on the brain...unless it is like a giant air filled sac or something that gives the head a huge amount of room to slow down gradually.

bewbies fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Aug 22, 2021

# ? Aug 22, 2021 13:53

CyberPingu: Sep 15, 2013; If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

bewbies posted:

I remember once when I was a teenager we did header practice for a whole training session and every single one of us were complaining about headaches...mine lasted for probably a day. Our coaches were all like IT IS PERFECTLY SAFE YOU PUSSIES. anyway

They should just play a bunch of top-level friendlies with no headers and no other rule changes and see what happens. Then we'd at least some data to work off of.

I'm inclined to think that banning headers outside the area is a good compromise plus it would put very good technical players at more of a premium which is probably a good thing for the entertainment value of the sport. Suddenly the smaller and more skilled center half that can reliably bring a long goal kick down with his chest and then make a good pass is the most sought after player type in the game.

Its both, really. You can think of the large numbers of lower force impacts as small concussions with the same effects. The big change in the science is recognizing that they are ALL bad.

The "good news" as it were is it looks like rotational impacts (ie, a boxer/MMA fighter getting punched such that their head rotates rapidly) are far worse than linear impacts (ie, a header), and soccer is virtually devoid of regular rotational impacts now that Joey Barton and Vinnie Jones retired.

The bad news is head protection really doesn't do a great deal to mitigate the problem. Helmets are good for preventing lacerations or impact injuries to the skull, but they don't do a whole lot to slow down the acceleration of the brain INSIDE the skull, which is the mechanism that does most of the damage. American football helmets have gotten better thanks to gobs of money and research but no helmet can prevent the G forces acting on the brain...unless it is like a giant air filled sac or something that gives the head a huge amount of room to slow down gradually.

The big issue with NFL helmets is that it encourages people to lead with their heads as they think they are protected.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 14:29

Zwachro: Mar 7, 2003; C808BEA

Gigi Galli posted:

That’s an interesting article and a good idea for a thread. What they fail to really address (and it’s probably because the data doesn’t exist) is if those headers outside the box are what’s majorly contributing to these long term injuries.

If it's the same study linked in this article (same research lead, at least!) they did attempt to sort the causes:

I assume 'objects' are the ball and the goalposts (excluding the refs). But it's only a single study, so I agree more would be good.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 20:08

African AIDS cum: Feb 29, 2012; Welcome back, welcome back, welcome baaaack

I reckon most top level players will die of heart attacks & strokes from years of cocaine & PEDs before dementia ever sets in

# ? Aug 25, 2021 12:02

the sex ghost: Sep 6, 2009

Nuno's answered the question of what we're going to do about headers

quote:

"That’s why we have training sessions without nobody seeing us,” Nuno said. “I’m concerned with the situation of dementia and what heading the ball can cause. It’s a big concern for us but it’s part of the game. Honestly, I will not lie to you. I don’t count how many times our players head the ball. Maybe I will get myself in trouble for this. But football is jumping, heading. It’s part of the game.”

Shameful lack of care for player safety. Bielsa would be there with separate header counters for each player

# ? Sep 25, 2021 09:55

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

the sex ghost posted:

Nuno's answered the question of what we're going to do about headers

Shameful lack of care for player safety. Bielsa would be there with separate header counters for each player

Bielsa could probably tell Nuno how many headers each Spurs player did in training.

# ? Sep 25, 2021 15:26

Vinestalk: Jul 2, 2011

Hoping for more players trying to shoulder slam the ball like Big John Carew.

Gigi Galli posted:

That�s an interesting article and a good idea for a thread. What they fail to really address (and it�s probably because the data doesn�t exist) is if those headers outside the box are what�s majorly contributing to these long term injuries. It seems like me and you recycling our beer cans when the coal electricity plant 50 miles away is spewing poo poo in to the air 24 hours a day convinced we are helping. It does matter but are the gains going to be that big? I guess if even one person doesn�t get a lifelong brain injury it�s a success but there will have to be more done.

I think it�s absolutely worth trying, and maybe not heading outside the box will lead to less heading in general by future players. I just don�t expect it to do much in the near future and I hope the studies continue.

Old post but I don't think it's about what is the biggest contributor but decreasing anything that contributes. The affects of a header and the subsequent development of CTE are similar in long term development to having high cholesterol and eventually developing coronary artery disease. It's about limiting a bunch of small events over time rather than the rate big crash that happens to an individual player maybe once or twice a season.

# ? Sep 26, 2021 18:56

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

A new NY Times article about CTE and headers. An MLS footballer who died in 2020 likely had football-induced CTE.

I didn�t know MLS had introduced �concussion substitutes.� It kinda makes sense. There�s so much pressure on players to stay on the pitch when there are no subs left. But that�s obviously not enough if you�re really looking to tackle CTE in football.

quote:

A high school and college all-American who played four seasons in M.L.S., Vermillion had spent the last decade of his life withdrawing from his family as he struggled with substance abuse and progressively erratic behavior.

Late last year, doctors at Boston University offered another explanation: After examining Vermillion�s brain, the B.U. experts told his family that he had chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or C.T.E., a degenerative brain disease linked to symptoms like memory loss, depression and aggressive or impulsive behavior.

[�]

Last year, leagues and tournaments around the world, including M.L.S., began experimenting with so-called concussion substitutes, which grant teams additional substitutions to deal with players with potential brain injuries. M.L.S. has joined some other sports leagues in implementing a variety of other protocols, including the use of independent specialists and spotters to assess potential concussions during games.

�M.L.S. has comprehensive policies to educate players, coaches, officials and medical staffs about the importance of head injury identification, early reporting, and treatment,� the league said in a statement. �There is always more progress to be made, and M.L.S. is staunchly committed to this important work.�

The focus, though, is not only on treating concussions. In a growing effort to prevent head impacts of all kinds, players at every level are seeing more guidelines aimed at limiting headers.

A study in 2019 by researchers in Glasgow showed former professional soccer players were three and a half times more likely than members of the general population to die from neurodegenerative disease (and less likely to die of heart disease and some cancers). Vermillion�s story, then, becomes the latest in a recent string of cautionary tales.

[�]

Dr. Stephanie Alessi-LaRosa, a sports neurologist in Hartford, Conn., cautioned against drawing causal links between posthumous C.T.E. diagnoses and patterns of behavior in a person�s lifetime. She said research on the subject was still in its early stages, and that doctors were still trying to understand why some athletes got C.T.E. while others did not.

�I have patients who are hesitant to get psychiatric treatment because they think they have C.T.E. and are doomed,� she said. �I think it�s important for patients to get the help they need, and if their family is concerned, get them to a sports neurologist.�

Alessi-LaRossa said she thought the benefits of sports outweighed the risks, but echoed the increasingly widespread idea that heading in soccer should be restricted for youth players.

In 2015, U.S. Soccer � resolving a lawsuit � announced a ban on heading in games and practices by players under 10 and created guidelines for restricting heading in practice for older players. And last year, English soccer officials released guidelines for heading, recommending professional players limit so-called �higher force headers� to 10 per week in training. (How, exactly, this should be enforced has been less clear.)

# ? Jun 28, 2022 17:06

A Buffer Gay Dude: Oct 25, 2020

Only allowed in the 18yd boxes while they figure out how to best eliminate them there.

I know this isn�t a tough guy or traditionalist position but who cares, we�ve been playing without the other two upper body appendages for years.

# ? Jun 28, 2022 17:28

Shrapnig: Jan 21, 2005

A Buffer Gay Dude posted:

Only allowed in the 18yd boxes while they figure out how to best eliminate them there.

I know this isn�t a tough guy or traditionalist position but who cares, we�ve been playing without the other two upper body appendages for years.

The problem with this is that you now have to coach out heading entirely which means that something like this really couldn't even go into effect for 15-20 years when the players who are currently 16 and breaking into first teams are retired and the next generations of players aren't even taught how to head the ball.

Comparing heading to handball isn't really a good argument. Handling the ball is and has been against the laws of football since 1906. No one comes into football thinking they can pick up the ball and throw it into the goal while nearly everyone is aware that heading the ball is a very effective way to score goals. That and no one is really sure what constitutes a handball these days so what is and isn't a header when and if that argument comes up?

# ? Jun 28, 2022 19:57

A Buffer Gay Dude: Oct 25, 2020

Shrapnig posted:

The problem with this is that you now have to coach out heading entirely which means that something like this really couldn't even go into effect for 15-20 years when the players who are currently 16 and breaking into first teams are retired and the next generations of players aren't even taught how to head the ball.

Comparing heading to handball isn't really a good argument. Handling the ball is and has been against the laws of football since 1906. No one comes into football thinking they can pick up the ball and throw it into the goal while nearly everyone is aware that heading the ball is a very effective way to score goals. That and no one is really sure what constitutes a handball these days so what is and isn't a header when and if that argument comes up?

Counterpoint: it�s pretty easy to just not head the dang ball outside the box.

And in the box, yeah that�s the whole point of a phase in. It will probably take a while because of the tactical effects on both sides of the ball and having to train it out. But you gotta start somewhere. I know fifa and other governing bodies are loathe to have different rules for different levels but it seems to me that starting at the lower age groups first would be useful.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 11:56

ozmunkeh: Feb 28, 2008; hey guys what is happening in this thread

Looking forward to the VAR calls to determine whether or not a header was inside the box or not.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 17:26

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# ? May 4, 2024 18:51

A Buffer Gay Dude: Oct 25, 2020

ozmunkeh posted:

Looking forward to the VAR calls to determine whether or not a header was inside the box or not.

Honestly I don�t see that being an issue. The box�s line is imho a good divider between the two broad categories of headers (knocking around possession types vs attacking/clearing in the box types) but neither set really happens anywhere close to the line with any frequency. A rule could be very generously written to err on the side of not making a call, and be fine.

I�m sure there will be unintended and unforeseen consequences of any �no header� rule but I also don�t think they�d necessarily be BAD consequences.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 23:41

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Ray Parlour > What should football do about headers?

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