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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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I'm going to guess that someone with four+ doses who wears a respirator for their handful of contacts is of very minimal concern wrt source control
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Sep 14, 2021 13:23
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Fritz the Horse posted:I think we're going in circles. What is your argument? I don't want to mischaracterize it but it seems to be along the lines of: "everyone, especially HCW, should get boosters immediately and it is an immense failure of the US gov't that they have not already been authorized." Mild-to-moderate covid is a miserable and terrifying ordeal that can lead to substantial disability (at least for months) in a significant number of cases. If you're looking at damaging the lungs/hearts/brains of even 5% of your population, in many cases repeatedly, what are you losing by boosting with safe, cheap, effective vaccines to maintain antibody levels at least until case numbers are low (which an 80-90% reduction in infection also helps achieve)? The economic costs alone of a debilitating endemic are staggering. We literally cannot afford another flu or malaria. edit: my only reservation in the US is hitting people en masse, especially young people, with full-strength Moderna doses, but I believe we have done it in trials and to enough 'booster bandits' to where it is better than covid even if it's not as documented as the 3rd Pfizer dose used in a country that actually tracks anything at all about breakthroughs etc. poll plane variant fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 06:01
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Boosting kills transmission, stopping transmission stops cases, stopping cases means we do not have to worry so much about the unknown long-term consequences of mild-to-moderate covid. The reports of cognitive/neurological damage alone should be argument enough. We do not want a repeat of leaded gasoline or the post-Spanish Flu encephalitis or any of these other outcomes of "let's just have a little brain damage as a treat" policies.
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Sep 17, 2021 06:13
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mod sassinator posted:Where did I say people end up on ventilators with mild covid? "up to" vs "up to and including" is ambiguous in english mod sassinator posted:edit: 'Mild' covid is a disease everyone is this thread should pray they never experience, and certainly none of their loved ones experience either. It is pure hell on earth for many people. It should not be shoo'ed away as acceptable by any means. now this is the real thing to keep in mind
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Sep 17, 2021 06:44
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The Israeli data seems to really suggest that if you had Denmark's vaccine uptake with Israel's vaccine schedule you'd be able to stop community spread without NPIs, something the West desperately needs to accomplish.
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Sep 17, 2021 17:44
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The US plan was always to vaccinate our way to a miraculous outcome. We need to prevent mild disease to achieve our policy goals, since "living with the virus" and everyone getting "mild to moderate" cases twice a year is pretty untenable economically, and NPIs are off the table. Boosters are almost by definition the only way forward when the only permissable tool is vaccination.
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Sep 17, 2021 17:51
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I wish I had been taking notes because the Israeli data seems to show a pretty precipitous drop in efficacy against severe and fatal covid in just a few more months. They're giving us a warning here. My gut feeling is the myocarditis is a red herring if we are considering sterilizing immunity from vaccines as our primary method of controlling case numbers. There's no way through without full population boosting unless we are willing to consider the Chinese approach, which we are absolutely not.
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Sep 17, 2021 19:47
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How are u posted:I was not under the impression that "sterilizing immunity" was our public health standard. I don't think anybody in power or any organization has held that to be the standard, as far as I recall anyway. A perfect vaccine may be impossible, but a 90% ballpark reduction in infections as we saw with fresh second doses and are now seeing in Israel will massively reduce the burden of this disease in the US in terms of suffering, economic impacts, and frankly the corrosion of the social fabric in general. The fewer cases the better, especially to protect the elderly, immunocompromised, and children.
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Sep 17, 2021 19:55
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Google Butt posted:hey you know even if you dont die from covid you can get extremely hosed up, permanently? Covid isn't something we will learn to live with, sucks but it's the truth. Billions of people live with endemic malaria but we in the US refused to tolerate it, and we should refuse to tolerate this.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:02
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Fritz the Horse posted:Have you seen any data on transmission reduction (or protection against infections, period) post third shot? Seems like it's too early to have much of that. Israel was seeing a sharp decline in cases among this group. It's all very preliminary especially for under 60. I'm trying to find up to the minute info on this but they've put out some data. I need to not be phone posting about something this crunchy but I'm watching the FDA thing on TV.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:19
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Given the Israeli data presented directly to the committee by top Israeli scientists regarding breakthrough severe and fatal cases after the 6 month mark, this is a bitter disappointment.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:53
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enki42 posted:Are there really no centralized records in the U.S. of who's gotten what vaccine? You have to be looked up in a system here before you get any dose here. I suppose you could probably try to sneak into one of the clinics for undocumented people, but those are pretty sparse and you'd have to go out of your way to make that happen. We have them on a state level but they're like a joke and for instance they spelled my name so wrong the records are for a person that doesn't exist
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Sep 17, 2021 21:20
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The only federal vaccine record that I'm aware of is the yellow card and that's just a piece of paper I don't think you're in any system for it
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Sep 17, 2021 21:21
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So many Americans just don't exist on paper or at least can't prove they do. Millions probably.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:23
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Referring to delays/refusals to approve boosters as "unbelievable failure" and asserting that it contributes to "continued bungling of the virus response" is impossible to take seriously. I stand by this position. Israel is a close ally, and has been remarkably transparent through the whole pandemic. They have given us a warning about waning immunity from essentially two months in our own future and I think it is one we would do well to heed.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:33
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I really appreciate the Israeli definition of severe including some that we would call I think mild!
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Sep 17, 2021 21:45
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Vasukhani posted:But won't a third vaccine ALSO reduce the chances of even needing any type of medical intervention? This seems irrelevant with an over supply of vaccines. He hasn't made one single comment about boosters itt that I've seen
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Sep 17, 2021 21:55
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Most people never realize they hit 90 percent when they were moving around, they just felt weak and short of breath ie a bad flu. Being at 90 at rest and dropping to the low 80s however they noticed, or when even short movement dropped them to the 70s. But again please keep telling me, someone who works ems, worked in an emergency department during covid, and works in an icu exactly how this poo poo works and why my training, schooling and actual experience is wrong As the guy who's seen a ton of covid cases, and is in the medical field, you're telling us getting covid is bad and we want to avoid even "mild" cases and that everyone getting it twice a year as part of "living with the virus" is a bad plan? Regardless of how weird and ignorant people are about the specifics.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:08
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Because our country is filled with jackasses, you cannot begin to comprend how stupid people are until you work in medicine. It shouldn't be a choice, and theirs a reason why many vaccines aren't or weren't until wasps made an issue of it because it causes autism in my kids!!!!! Another guy with a name and address who gets to live his life prosperously and peacefully and who will die thinking he did everything right.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:19
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Uh no, Wakefield did it because he was trying to discredit those vaccines in order to sell his own and make money. He actively went full hog in because he realized he was chained to the train he took off the tracks and lost his license and was fined I believed. He actively was discredited. He knows he lied through his teeth, his articles were fully falsified. He did it for monetary gain and without any thoughts he was right. That's what the fash think is right, to burn everything down to make a quick buck and have a quick laugh. What I was getting at is how hosed up it is that we let people like this just go about their days, show up as "expert talking heads" on mainstream news, etc. Kissinger style.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:27
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enki42 posted:Standardized (hopefully non-forgeable) proof of vaccination, requirement that restaurants, large events, salons, whatever really (except probably grocery stores and things that are literally needed to survive) are required to validate that proof before allowing anyone in. Same way it was rolled out in Israel, France, will be in most of Canada, probably a bunch of other places I'm not aware of. In the US, people who refuse to comply with present mandates like masks, will just walk in anyway unless physically stopped, which is something most places are unable or unwilling to actually accomplish, and which carries huge liability. How do you stop someone from simply physically entering and demanding service? Long guns and rifle plates are the increasingly ubiquitous daily attire of this crowd as well, which complicates it further. Israel is probably uniquely equipped to do this because iirc armed security is a huge makework program there.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:35
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lil poopendorfer posted:You are a CNA last I checked the HCW thread, stop acting like you're some authority on the matter The guy has physically seen a bunch of vital signs and covid cases and that's about all you need to know here.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:38
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enki42 posted:How frequent is this though? I don't doubt it happens (it happens to some degree everywhere), but the percentage of the unvaccinated that are going to threaten violence so they can get their precious appetizers definitely can't be everyone who's left unvaccinated, it's a very small sliver. Most places in Canada have said it's fine to call 911 in that circumstance, although I don't have a lot of confidence in cops enforcing vaccine requirements. Our security forces are politically unreliable and will not typically fire on or otherwise get physical with whites, especially conservative-presenting whites, even to protect high-level nuclear secrets etc. If you are white you can just walk in anywhere and do whatever you want.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:45
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enki42 posted:Yeah for sure I don't disagree with you. What I'm saying is even in a circumstance where you let them come in, that's still 90% of people who aren't going to go to the lengths where they ignore orders, unless the U.S. is so different from Canada that there would be a critical mass of people who would just flatly ignore mandates. It is, in fact, that different from Canada. Fascists find nothing more amusing than disobeying a rule which is not enforced immediately with lethal force. They see tormenting the weak as a moral imperative and more importantly extremely funny. Many, many Americans are simply sadists.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:51
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enki42 posted:I dunno, this just feels like "we can't be perfect so why even try". I guess at the end of the day I can't really say, but it doesn't seem like the differences between our two countries are SO extreme. We have nazis here too, even some of your more prominent ones are from Canada. We should use overwhelming physical force including a proliferation of armor-defeating weapons in the hands of private individuals. We can be perfect, but it will not be bloodless. edit: I forgot my actual point here so here it is - this isn't going to stop until we see a few of these chuds dead on the floor of a McDonalds getting laughed at on the evening news.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:54
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Herstory Begins Now posted:from what i saw, the current rate of vaccinated people who are hospitalized who end up needing O2 is 4%. So it's almost assured that even if they do get sick and even if they are one of the very few who needs hospitalization, even then it's almost always very mild. What the gently caress is mild hospitalization, what on Earth are you talking about
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Sep 18, 2021 17:41
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mod sassinator posted:Neither third shots or boosters are currently allowed for any healthy person of any age. I feel like we're in a weird situation where the Israeli data is relentlessly publicized and it's easy to get a third dose but the official approval is withheld for "the vaccines are perfect" messaging reasons
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Sep 18, 2021 20:44
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I do not believe that the security forces are reliable enough to enforce Biden admin policy on red-state whites, but they would absolutely do so, on their own initiative, against 'the libs'.
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Sep 19, 2021 02:26
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The context of this in the US is also a perpetual slow-burn constitutional crisis largely engineered by fascists who think our tendency to have rules or norms is incredibly funny.
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Sep 19, 2021 05:24
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Platystemon posted:Draft everyone into the National Guard. Immunize them as appropriate. You can build your society into any form you want with universal indefinite conscription! Look at Eritrea!
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Sep 19, 2021 05:31
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If NPIs to Chinese standards have been repeatedly rejected, and controlling infections is required for the healthcare systems and supply chains to function normally, and even lesser NPIs cannot be implemented nationally, what recourse do we have other than attempting to achieve reduced infection via repeated dosing? Also what a cute dog
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Sep 19, 2021 06:18
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Suck Moredickis posted:I'm simply trying to get at where you're coming from. You've been making claims and I'm curious what backs them up. Again, you say "Epidemiologists recommend boosters." Ok, but again, the FDA advisory board determined that whatever evidence epidemiologists have to back that recommendation up is not sufficient. Why are these certain epidemiologists right and the FDA wrong? The board focused pretty much entirely on severe illness and death, as opposed to seeing the vaccines as a tool (the only tool in the US) for infection control.
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Sep 19, 2021 06:20
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OddObserver posted:I am having a hard time reconciling this with reports of critically overloaded hospitals. It just means a lot of the "base load" has or acquires covid, leading to hospitalized numbers higher than the number of ppl who actually have severe covid. The hospitals are still ALSO full of people with severe covid, it doesn't help them any but skews the math on severe breakthrough cases.
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Sep 20, 2021 02:03
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I’m not sure it effectively matters as people are still being denied care that is sorely needed at hospitals due to overcrowding. Many stories have come out of folks dying in the waiting room. It matters for assessing vaccine effectiveness against severe covid, that's about it.
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Sep 20, 2021 03:18
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So now the meta is to hide your vaxx status from your doctor so you can get mabs?
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Sep 21, 2021 15:46
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Professor Beetus posted:people who deny cancer exists and guzzle carcinogens This is the basis of the American diet (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 21, 2021 18:18
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Vasukhani posted:Except being anti-vax clearly isn't actually a pure choice, otherwise we would see a consistent rate of vaccination where the supplies are the same. Instead, we see massive differences in vaccination across space, indicating that it isn't actually a choice and something determined by geographic location and class status. If we were space aliens landing from Mars trying to sort out the issue, we'd definitely explore your theories, but for the most part, in the words of Joe Biden, c'mon man. This is predominantly ideological, it's a classic middle class far right ideology, and the antivax population isn't exactly the downtrodden and oppressed.
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Sep 21, 2021 18:32
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Epic High Five posted:Unless there's some new research saying otherwise, there's also a good chance the doses are being misallocated to some degree with these schemes, as it's only regarded as the "rich people miracle juice" because rich people are getting tested daily and flooded with the stuff the instant they pop positive, and if they have a rough time with the disease we just never hear about it. We have enough fast drive through sites that I should probably get tested twice a week or something lol
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Sep 21, 2021 20:39
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Fritz the Horse posted:It's definitely very frustrating that $20k antibody treatments are going largely to dipshits who won't get a $20 shot, but that seems like the obvious moral/utilitarian policy. The antibody infusions are going to do the most good for unvaccinated sick people, so that's where they're directed. Are they actually 20k/dose? I've seen about 1-2k cited. If I had a large in person workforce it seems like surveillance testing and monoclonals would pay for themselves in terms of minimizing disruptions in productivity for a whole lot of US-wage industries
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Sep 21, 2021 20:42
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 15:42 |
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kiimo posted:I was in Harbor Springs, I have no idea where that is haha That's the scenic northwestern corner of the lower peninsula
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Sep 21, 2021 20:44
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