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A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Most creatures just do nothing but take all your mana for the turn before they get doom bladed. This one actually helps your opponent first. I'm not sure it's good enough.

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A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Tom Clancy is Dead posted:

I think the set has improved a lot as spoilers have continued. I don't think it'll be the meta shakeup everyone wants as I doubt any of the pillars of the format are going away without a ban, but I think it's pretty likely there will be a good bit of movement in what's competitive or T1.

idk, the last set wasn't really a huge meta shakeup, kaldheim wasn't a huge meta shakeup, I think standard has been getting progressively weaker since Eldraine. We haven't had anything strong come in and shake things up, we just have strong cards rotating out, making room for all the weaker cards, which then rotate out and make room for even weaker cards. Like, yeah we get that they feel REAL bad about everything in eldraine but drat, its like core set power level but triple the words

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Lone Goat posted:

Gerrard the result of a multi generational breeding project by Urza so uhhhh at least that long

I think they meant how could you know that poo poo wasn't going crazy on other planes, since we only saw a few other ones and everything that happened was all because of the phyrexians. Like we don't know if everything was normal in Ravnica or Ixalan or Kaladesh back then. Maybe it was all good until planeswalkers first went there and hosed things up, or maybe crazy poo poo was happening all the time

BioThermo posted:

I think Kaldheim was the biggest shakeup we've had outside of a rotation since the pre-nerf companions debacle. After clover/omnath were gone, the meta had settled to Rogues, Green Food, Gruul Cleave/Henge, and Yorion Doom Foretold. The advent of Kaldheim and the tools it gave to Sultai Ultimatum pretty much pushed doom foretold out, but faceless haven + other cards let food to turn into snow stompy, gruul to mono-red, mono-white to be viable, and we also saw flavors of temur adventures and goldspan/unleash fury decks. The only pre-kaldheim deck that didn't change radically or get pushed out of the meta was rogues.

I guess my point is that from when Kaldheim released until the next rotation, KLD was the weakest set in standard. Strong stuff rotated out, but nothing stronger was released so now KLD is the backbone of standard. I kinda hope that doesn't happen again. What if instead of making eldraine, then panicking and slamming on the breaks for the next 10 sets, they made 5 sets in a row that were roughly the same power level of eldraine? Maybe give people a reason to play Pioneer once a few fun, powerful standard decks rotate. Kind of like how the draw of Extended and early Modern was "keep playing your favorite standard deck but with access to more cards!"

A Moose fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Nov 5, 2021

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Counterpoint: rotations in eternal formats should be more frequent just to teach people it's dumb to spend $200 on a playset of 1 card when it won't even last a full standard rotation

also, every modern horizons release should completely obsolete everything in the previous set because some people DON'T learn so you might as well let them whale the gently caress out

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



I'm generally pro anything that dunks on people spending $1000+ on a deck. I don't care how fun and interesting a format is, there's no way its THAT fun. Might as well milk them for all they can, and use that to fund more commander stuff and interesting standard decks

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



BioThermo posted:

the sealed entry fee is 2k gems, and going 0-3 in sealed (getting 200 gems, 3 packs, opening 6 draft packs) means you're trading 6 pack openings (one guaranteed rare/mythic wildcard from the rewards track) for the 6 extra uncommons and 30 extra commons from the draft packs. I'd wager most people would value the wildcard over the gems payout you get for fewer than 3 wins.

I kinda want to see the math on how much a single wildcard is worth, if you set the gem price at $99 for 20,000, which I think is the most value. I think someone worked it out that rares are worth like $8 apiece but I can't look it up right now since I'm at work

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



ilmucche posted:

Expand on that

I mean it's pretty self explanatory. I don't play modern or legacy or vintage because it might be fun, but it's nowhere near fun enough to justify the price tag. Standard frequently blows, but at least you can play it with cards you get from drafting. They need to shake up the modern metagame more often, so that people have to replace entire decks every year and the price to get into eternal formats comes down to standard levels. They could make a modern horizons set every year! They could put in cards that specifically poo poo all over the cards they printed last year! They could add another rarity above mythic that is just reserved for Karns or Urzas and also Squire or whatever so that it only LOOKS like they're increasing the supply of in-demand cards and draws more people in!

Or, the prices don't come down, they make billions and can finally hire some game developers for their online poo poo and more designers to actually playtest poo poo.

Or, I could just wait until fakes get more realistic and try it out then. Modern used to be fun when random budget bullshit could occasionally win, like Ad Nauseum combo or Living End. Then it just gradually got more powerful and more expensive. I had a splinter twin deck, but then that got banned and I wasn't able to sell enough of it to get another deck, so I just quit playing. Pioneer looked like it would be fun and cheap, but then they banned EVERYONE's combo decks and EVERYONE quit playing, which was kinda funny to watch.

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Tom Clancy is Dead posted:

Goldfish is not a good representation of metagames because they use the 5-0/6-0 results WOTC publishes, which are designed to show artificial diversity.

http://mtgtop8.com/index and https://mtgmeta.io/ are better.

That said, in this case Living End is still around #10 in popularity in tournaments

holy poo poo, living end became good again?

oh, with $500 worth of new cards from modern horizons. lmao

A Moose fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Nov 5, 2021

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



I loved playing my Living End deck, back when it was a decent tier 2 deck, with avalance riders, fulminator mages, and a bunch of common cycling guys. Would have been around 2010-2012 and the meta at my LGS was pretty chill. I beat the guy playing jund exactly once, when I Ricochet Trapped a lighting bolt aimed at his own Dark Confidant that was going to kill him. The first time I played the instant cascade into living end to boardwipe an affinity player and then swing for lethal back was maybe the most fun I've ever had in modern. Turn 2 Simian Spirit Guide into Fulminator Mage on the play vs tron was also very good.

I wonder how good the non-modern horizon version of the deck still is, without the lovely force of wills and new evoke dudes

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



VictualSquid posted:

Another thing, can I counter Alchemist's gambit game loss? Using Discontinuity or Tale's End as example.

yeah, that works fine

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



The arena economy is super easy to understand. Any given rare costs a little less than 1200 gems, the price for 6 packs to guarantee a wildcard. You have a tiny chance of opening the card you want in one of those 6 boosters, making your next rare free technically. As you fill out more playsets duplicate rares will give you 1/10th of a pack in gems so the price goes down a little bit more, but yeah, if you buy gems $99 at a time each rare, whether its jank or meta-defining is worth roughly $6 apiece

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Maybe WotC knows that Magic is only a good game if you trick yourself into thinking it because you spent $3000 on a deck, so they don't want us to be able to play eternal formats cheaply. That's the only explanation I can think of, because all anyone wants out of arena is to play expensive cards without spending a downpayment on a car for cards, why else would they be so reluctant to give us something resembling that?

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



I feel like we're getting better at iterating deck design, pretty soon we can look forward to having the metagame solved, with future mutations predicted (like, this deck is going to be big because it'll be good against these 3 archetypes, so then this deck will be big too, etc) like a week after the full spoiler comes out, then we can just pick pre-made decks, and clown on idiots that still brew, and basically play a fighting game vs each other, the way magic was meant to be played.

We might even get queues that ban specific combinations of cards to get around that

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



odiv posted:

You can't fail to find with Seek, right? It just happens?

Yeah, since it only happens on Arena, it happens automatically

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009




well, that's it for draft then, isn't it? Quick someone make a limited format with set boosters.

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Its pretty telling that nobody anywhere, ever, has ever stuck up for alchemy. not even as a lovely gimmick. this is objectively bad for anyone that plays on Arena

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



It is kind of impressive that they managed to make a format that rotates faster than limited, if we're looking at monthly rebalancings. its like they went "what's the opposite of an eternal format". I guess the opposite of an eternal format would be phantom draft, where you don't even get to keep the cards you play it with, but there's a cap on how much they can charge for that because you don't get any cards. What if you keep the cards, but can only play them for a month!

Alchemy cards should be like, an entire playset for a wildcard

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Magic is a good physical card game, but can't really be a good digital game I guess. There's too many things that make Magic work that can't work in digital (infinite combos, priority, shortcutting, making 251 tokens, bluffing counterspells, calling judges, spending $3500 on a single deck, cheap "proxies", cheating/angle shooting) and all the stuff that make digital games fun can't work in paper. They really should rebrand Arena as a spinoff and call it something like "magic jr" and stop trying to make it replicate the physical game, which is what they're doing I think.

Aniodia posted:

To go back to the whole cube talk, I've always been interested in building a cube, but have literally no fuckin idea where to begin, what kinds of cards to include, etc. The thought of a pauper cube is twice as appealing, as it lets me get my cube on while also not being crazy expensive (in theory).

So I figure I'd ask if there is any good guides to making cubes, common draft archetype cards to include for each color, articles and guides like that that would help someone new to the whole process get their poo poo together.

I think I asked this exact thing in this thread the last thread a few months ago, I'll try to dig through my post history and see if I can find all the answers I got

A Moose fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Dec 10, 2021

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



So, canonically, wasn't the Kami War in Kamigawa like 1000 years before anything else in the Magic timeline? It's pretty unlikely that we'll see any named characters. IIRC most of the named characters died in the war, or were mortal

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



HootTheOwl posted:

Kamigawa was the set of everything being legendary so many of the spirits were legendary too. And immortal.

yeah, but like, a lot of them got killed anyway.

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



That ninja commander seems pretty eh, considering you have to play him, have another creature in play that can attack that turn, and doesn't get blocked, attack, and then pay 4 to ninja something into play for only 7 mana.

If you're ninjaing things like Grislebrand or an eldrazi or something, odds are your opponent is doing powerful stuff too, so they can probably remove a 3-drop with no way to protect itself before you untap with it, even if you play a bunch of moxes and poo poo to play him turn 1, and activate him turn 2

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



TheKingofSprings posted:

Costing 3 seems fine for what it does. It can be extremely high impact the next turn after.

Yeah, I'm not saying its overcosted or anything, its a 3 mana 2/4 with some bonus conditional card advantage tacked on. It can just go in the pile of "creatures with potentially gamewinning abilities that require you to untap with them". Though I guess a 3-drop is a little more likely to survive to untap than a 5 or 6 drop

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Yes, we know, you can "muh freedums" and "what are you going to do about it" and "you cant tell me what to do!" all you want but you're still a massive tool

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



I have a soft spot for my old kitchen table deck when I was in high school, I'd drive my friends crazy by clogging up the board with recurring Bottle Gnomes while draining everyone with Subversion in multiplayer games. For some reason Bottle Gnomes was the card they were maddest about. Not Snuff Out, or Phyrexian Reclamation or Subversion.

my favorite EDH commander is Brion Stoutarm because I like to throw Serra Avatars and large Phyrexian Processor tokens, Moltensteel Dragons, and Keldon Battlewagons. Just the jankiest possible ways to 1-shot people, while also having stuff like board wipes, sunforger + toolkit, and a Godo + helm of the host combo.

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



The red one is probably going to be like "3R: target creature can't block this turn, costs 1 less for each legendary permanent you control"

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Mike N Eich posted:

This made me wonder how powerful an untapped dual land cycle would be who's only downside is they are legendary lands. How many would it make sense to run?

typed duals? I feel like that matters a lot. If they're fetchable and there's a way to fetch them in the format, then 1-2 are all you need

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



I bet you could trim living end to under $100 if you just keep it to 3 living ends, 7 cascade cards, and the shittiest jund manabase you can imagine.

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Doesn't Neuromancer take place in Japan?

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Silhouette posted:

Bubble economy overseas zaibatsu buying sprees and fear of foreign corporate takeovers aside, Japan in the 80s was where all the cool technology came from, and had this air of mystery surrounding it. There was also some envy over the fact that cool tech poo poo almost always seemed to release in Japan first, and then trickle out to the US months or years later, if at all.

yeah, I remember when I read Rising Sun in high school, because I went from "oh cool the guy that wrote jurassic park has other books" to :dogstare: :dogstare: :dogstare: :dogstare: REAL QUICK

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Pablo Nergigante posted:

Thank you. My LGS is running it and there’s a hella good turnout, there’s probably almost 50 people here already

wishing you and everyone else there a speedy covid recovery!

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



I think the card is just supposed to be a "sketchy" street food vendor because it kills things. with food poisoning. I'm not sure how the spirits come into it. or the racism. I'm not sure where that comes in either

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Abhorrence posted:

It's a bonesplitter if nothing else.

A legendary bonesplitter

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Is Pact of Negation a LOT worse in modern than force of negation? I suppose it depends on if you're shutting down someone else's gamewinning combo, allowing you to win on the next turn, vs stopping someone shutting down YOUR gamewinning combo, letting you win on the spot.

But for things like Living End, I'm not sure. Lets say in the unlikely situation where you don't have ~$300 to drop on a set of forces, what's a good substitute? What are you normally countering with them and how early? I see most lists run them maindeck, so is it to protect yourself while you go off, or is it just that good against every deck?

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



HootTheOwl posted:

So here's the issue with Pact in living end: It costs 5 mana.
Which means you can't cast outburst on 3 on the opponenet's turn and protect it with pact because you'll untap with 3 lands and be unable to pay.

E: Ad Naus and infect probably care less since you're ending the game right then and there. Or belcher where you can untap and kill them before the trigger resolves.

Is ad nauseum still a deck after the Lightning storm + Simian Spirit Guide plan got banned? I used to play that one a bit on MTGO and it was kinda fun, but I can't imagine ever casting Ad Nauseum + Angel's Grace + a wincon with how much more powerful every other deck got since like, 7 or 8 years ago

A Moose fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Feb 15, 2022

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



How much do twitch chat mods normally get paid?

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



I wonder if the reason the last few sets have seemed weak is that they're slowing down on putting eternal format cards in standard, since they have other, more profitable ways to do that without wrecking standard by putting a pushed modern card that they'd have to ban in sets. If that makes standard weaker, it won't matter because it usually makes limited better, which is great because they don't make any money off people playing Standard anymore anyway.

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



If you want to see what people are actually playing, MTGGoldfish shows that. No idea how accurate it is though. You can at least see when the decks are from so you can kinda judge for yourself. The % of decks that include a card is kinda helpful to show variants of a decklist

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



It just seems like it belongs on something more wilderness-y than a city.

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



I've always liked how they went out of their way to give the shocklands extremely good, but generic names so they could use them in other settings, and then never ever did.

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A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



huh wow I never thought I'd agree with twitch chat but twitch chat loving HATES alchemy

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