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I've never read Foundation but I read a bunch of Asimov stuff when I was a kid. Should I read the books if I'm interested in the show? I remember his stuff being really dry, but then I was like 12.
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Sep 23, 2021 23:49
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Loved the first two episodes, and the books should be arriving today. Got some spoilers when I was looking something up about some of the older Asimov books I read when I was a kid -- the Grand Vizier robot lady is Daneel Olivaw?? From the Caves of Steel detective books?? Who's been guiding humanity along for a thousand years?? I never knew Asimov connected his works like that. I had no idea of what Foundation was before I went in, and I thought it was fantastic. Great production value and special effects, interesting characters and worldbuilding. I've read reviews that give it 2/5 for some reason -- did the dialogue seem that disjointed to you guys? It didn't stick out enough for me to notice. I even liked the Day Emperor wearing the combat armor from DOOM. The only thing I'm not clear on was the timeline. The stuff at the beginning with the kids trying to get to the floaty thing that puts out a null field -- is that happening at the same time as Gaal meets Hari and goes off on the colony ship? I originally thought that Gaal was one of the kids there that had grown up, but I guess not? What's the deal with that planet, then?
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Sep 26, 2021 15:06
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Hakkesshu posted:The Gaal/Raysch romance stuff was bad and I did not think the guy who played Raysch was any good. The whole show feels kind of sterile and lifeless in general, though I suppose that is to be expected from Asimov. I am curious to see where it actually goes from here, but juxtaposing it with just seeing Dune, it felt somewhat less impressive and just lacking in emotion. Really? I specifically thought Raysch was great. Everyone up until then was doing this somber serious stoic thing that you get with sci fi, and then Raysch shows up and he's actually emoting and smiling and lending some humanity to the proceedings. I would also like to know what the deal was with the weird spacer people, and/or what's going on with FTL and not being able to look out the window (as long as it's not too spoilery). I thought they were going to be actively malicious, or possibly explain to Gaal why they woke her up during travel, but then they knock her back out and are never heard from again. Proteus Jones posted:The stuff that happens with Hari and Gaal is 37 years prior to the opening scene of ep 01. Oh! Did I miss a "30 years later" text crawl somewhere or are they just being cryptic?
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Sep 26, 2021 15:27
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Proteus Jones posted:There were no flash-forwards. Unless you mean the very beginning of episode one? And the end of episode 2? Either way they were all proceeded by a big old 37 years prior or 37 years later depending. I hate this because I will look away from the screen for a few seconds (or just space out thinking about stuff) and completely miss it.  etalian posted:Plus they take a main character off the board way too early this series. Yeah, I did kinda think this show was about to be the adventures of Gail and Harry, best friends in math and in life, learning about the universe and guiding the fall of mankind. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Sep 26, 2021 |
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Sep 26, 2021 16:31
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Chairman Capone posted:The idea of people going crazy from seeing hyperspace reminds me of Larry Niven's Known Space. Is that the one where everyone's gotta be sedated or keep their eyes closed or something, and anyone who's made the trip awake comes out completely insane on the other end, and then someone's kid accidentally goes through awake and they find out that if you're awake then the trip takes ten thousand years from your perspective, so your mind is just stuck there awake and alone for what feels like a literal eternity. e: oh poo poo, no, Known Space is the Ringworld books! I guess if we're just here listing the ways hyperspace travel can gently caress you up in different sci fi universes, then someone's gotta mention Warhammer 40k where hyperspace is actually filled with demons and dark gods and you can get lost forever or inexplicably show up decades after you left. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 22:58
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I dunno, I loving loved it. It DID feel like the story was probably about to grind to a halt when we started spending so much time with the Emperor clones, but I liked their bit too much to mind, and then the Foundation half of the episode moved stuff along more than I thought it would. Not nearly as much as I'd have liked, but I really just want the next episode to watch right now immediately.
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Oct 1, 2021 22:24
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ghostinmyshell posted:I was at B&N today and noticed they are charging $17 per book and thought that was nuts. They were also the soft covers. Jesus, this is exactly why brick and mortar bookstores are dying out. I got the whole first trilogy from Amazon this week for about $25. Feels bad but who can afford over a 100% markup like that?
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Oct 2, 2021 02:58
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twistedmentat posted:They used to have a lot of ads for Apple TV stuff in the Toronto Subway, and they were all so cringy. The worst was by far that show about the game company or people playing D&D or something. Here's a conventionally handsome guy with a beard in modern clothes riding a dragon, don't you want to watch this show nerds??? I think that's Mythic Quest? Mythic Quest was steaming hot poo poo, too, and I generally love the stuff that guy is involved with. Think Big Bang Theory only MMORPG and somehow less funny and even less realistic. I can't wait til all the streaming services with like 2 good shows each all team up and just make us buy Cable 2.0 for $80 a month again.
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Oct 8, 2021 02:24
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stephenthinkpad posted:I love Lee Pace, he is such a dick I really didn't expect it, I thought Asimov's stuff was all hard science and logic and didn't have any froo froo magic abilities running around. That being said, I'm here for it and willing to see what they do with it. I don't know that it's all "different magical abilities", though, I'm willing to accept a generalized "psychicness" or whatever that makes her immune to the force field and gives her vague precognitive abilities.
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Oct 8, 2021 22:18
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GABA ghoul posted:I like this show but it has some really weird vibe to it that I just can't put my finger on. Psychohistory appears to be just a run of the mill computational sociology model, but it's treated as some kind of revolutionary discovery that hundreds of the best mathematicians can't figure out after studying it for decades and that has only been created after ten thousand years by a single person for some reason. And the scale of everything just seems off. Like, there are trillions of people in the empire but everything feels so small and revolves around a handful of characters. Seldon is supposed to be this extremely influential person, but the Foundation is just a couple hundred people. Shouldn't he have at least a couple billion followers to be even considered influential? I get the complaints about scale, I would have liked it if they hadn't timeskipped all the way to Terminus and maybe the ship stopped at a few planets along the way to refuel and showed off a little more of the Empire, or maybe ran into an Imperial fleet and gave us some spaceporn shots of these giant cruisers. I think the two delegations from the first couple episodes were a good start, but we didn't learn enough about them for much in the way of worldbuilding. I don't think the Foundation is an issue, though -- it's one thing to have heard of Hari Seldon and think he's telling the truth, it's another to pick yourself up and travel across the galaxy to a planet in the rear end-end of nowhere to take part in what is essentially an encyclopedia publishing company best run by librarians. You're right that psychohistory is a bit of a black box, though -- I didn't realize that Gaal Dornick was literally the only other person in the galaxy who can even understand it. It's a different story than I thought they were going to tell, where Seldon ends up being almost a prophet figure as the only person who can commune with the almighty.
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Oct 9, 2021 18:27
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Boris Galerkin posted:My problem is that where the characters say “math” what they really mean is “astrology.” The show would be watchable for me if they would say astrology instead of math to be honest. I think you're conflating psychohistory with just, yknow, Hari Seldon being a pretty smart dude who knows how people are going to respond? Like yeah, probably Math Genius Gaal Dornick is going to want to leave the planet where they kill you for doing math. Probably the emperor that clones himself so he can rule forever is going to arrest the guy saying that he's got a few decades left, max. I do understand why they wanted to call it "math" rather than "astrology" or "religion", though. If it's a religious prophecy, then, well, it's easy to say you don't believe in it. Maybe it's a false religion, whatever, it's not like they can't prove anything, it's not based on any real evidence, it's just what their particular priest thinks when he reads the SpaceBible and there's no reason to believe him over any of the other religions that say life is great. If it's "math" though, then it means someone sat down with hard numbers and proved it. Maybe you believe it's true, maybe you don't, but it's still true. They made it into a black box with the spiraling sand that only Hari and Gaal can understand, but if they're calling it math, then it means the numbers worked out and it looks like armageddon's coming. If it were just a priest or an astrologist saying "hey, from the look of the stars I think the empire's gonna collapse" then the Cleons could just ignore him, have him exploded, whatever, but since it's a mathematician, they have to devote some real consideration to the possibility that his numbers are correct.
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Oct 11, 2021 17:15
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Boris Galerkin posted:Again, that’s not how it works. Yes your black box might spit some numbers out and yes you might interpret those numbers to mean that armageddon is coming. It's not really a black box though, it's a complex algorithm that Seldon worked up. Gaal Dornick is the only other person we know of who can even understand it, and she looked it over and said "yeah, looks like it's solving the correct equations and accounting for the things that are important and not neglecting etc etc." Compare it to climate change, for example -- climate science is ALSO incredibly complex and depends on a ton of things that a lot of us probably couldn't even name, but enough scientists have come to a consensus that yes, they've weighed the correct factors and put in the correct inputs and yep, the world's definitely heating up. It's possible that there's some unknown agents that the climate scientists haven't been factoring in, but no one's saying "you might as well call climate science religion or astrology" then. This is a TV show, man. I get that psychohistory isn't a 1:1 realistic match with, like, the Pythagorean Theorum as far as "other mathematicians have thoroughly explored this and found it to be correct" but as far as the show is concerned, it's much more based in "real math" than any prediction you'd get from astrology or religion, and it means psychohistory is much more credible to people in-universe. You just have to assume that the questions you bring up have already been answered by Seldon and Gaal.
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Oct 11, 2021 18:38
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Nitrousoxide posted:The last couple of episodes have made it really clear that the Foundation treating Hari's predictions as gospel is leading to be woefully unprepared because they think they need to do nothing since the future is set in stone. Like the lack of maintenance for the weapons, and I believe the poorly maintained fence that's let hostile creatures in (as demonstrated by the creature in the crashed ship). One of the very few people who's actually being prudent is the warden. Yeah, this is why I think the distinction between "math" and "religion" is important in this case -- Hari HAD a valid algorithm or whatever that predicted the end of days, but no one could understand it besides Gaal, so with them out of the picture, it turns into sort of a cargo cult religion where they're doing the things but they don't know why they're doing the things anymore. The religion that grows up around psychohistory may not be the same thing as the actual psychohistory predictions.
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Oct 12, 2021 03:30
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i like show 2
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Oct 12, 2021 20:43
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Starks posted:Come on bro. Why that wasn't a real spoiler KPC_Mammon posted:I'd like to thank this thread for recommending mythic quest. I'm two episodes in and it is nothing like big bang theory, the poster ranting about the advertising might actually enjoy it. the shovel episode hooked you? really?
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Oct 13, 2021 03:16
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Wafflecopper posted:now you've spoiled that he doesn't die, gently caress yoooouuuuuuuu Dune: I actually thought about that before I posted, but whatever damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't understand the original post, honestly. I only read the first two Dune books but Paul doesn't die. I've seen that he dies as an old man at the end of the third book, which is like decades after anything that will ever show up on screen.
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Oct 13, 2021 17:47
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apatheticman posted:OH A CASKET OF HIS OWN DESIGN HUH I loved this, like yeah that certainly isn't going to mean anything But holy poo poo they need to move things forward faster here and stop with these awful cliffhangers if they're not going to let us binge watch. Basically everything from the Gaal flashback was stuff we'd already inferred from what we've seen so far. It was nice to see a little fleshing-out of the universe but I'm starting to get annoyed that they're wasting half the episode on these flashbacks and interludes when it seems like the main storyline is the tense standoff (and holy poo poo massacre) going down on Terminus. And/or what the gently caress Gaal is up to on strange prison ship.
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Oct 15, 2021 04:50
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Jerusalem posted:This episode had no Lee Pace so I'm mad I didn't have a huge problem with this, honestly. Both the Foundation crew and the Anacreons seem pretty poo poo as far as organization and security and whatnot. The Foundation are a bunch of naive cloistered idiots, obviously, and even Hardin is more of a theoretical badass than an actual one -- she's smart and takes things seriously, but she's on the same cloistered little planet where she doesn't get much experience in anything besides killing space-varmints and keeping children away from the magic vault. And the Anacreons seem more like a terrorist group than a proper military force, really. It doesn't surprise me that Hardin didn't immediately tell them about the cannon because she's not a perfect tactical robot and just didn't really consider that they could mess with her communications, and it doesn't surprise me that, especially once their leader was gone, the Anacreons didn't really have a plan for "what happens if someone sees our cannon?" (also there were probably only a couple people on Terminus that would even recognize that they were making it stealthy)
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Oct 15, 2021 05:24
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Patrat posted:Not even the shaky cam, the one guy running around punching rifle armed soldiers in the face and knocking them out, repeatedly, was ridiculous. They were wearing helmets! They had guns! But no, bare handed face punches, he punched out more of them than he shot with his literal laser gun and they seemed very keen to run full tilt into his fist. look at this guy so sure of himself and he doesn't even know people from thespia have overdeveloped biceps because of the increased gravity and can punch through a brick wall if they want
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Oct 15, 2021 14:35
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Nitrousoxide posted:Episode talk: If Hari was an AI, than unless the Three Laws don't apply to Foundation, I don't see how Gaal's commands to show her locations or redirect the ship could be ignored. You'd have to have a really expansive view of the First Law that doing so would somehow harm her to avoid her commands. While I know Asimov certainly didn't pretend like the 3 Laws are an actual solution to AI rebellion (at least a half dozen of his stories deal with how they utterly fail to prevent misaligned desires by the AI), this case doesn't seem like one of those instances where the 3 Laws going awry would apply. This was covered in one of the Asimov books I read as a kid, I, Robot maybe? The Second Law has levels of authority -- there was a story about a robot who's primary owner said "get lost", and so the robot disappeared among a group of other robots and didn't feel the need to comply with the investigators trying to tell him to get un-lost. If the AI or robot's owner tells them to take Gaal to the dark star and not to give her access to such-and-such information, then the robot doesn't have to comply with Gaal's commands because they conflict with the commands from the owner, and the owner's authority supercedes Gaal's.
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Oct 15, 2021 17:21
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Is Lee Pace really that hot of a dude? To me he looks like the most generic rich white guy, and I can't think of anything else I've seen him in for people to be this excited to see him.
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Nov 5, 2021 04:51
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Aertuun posted:What makes someone look like a rich white guy as opposed to a poor white guy? Is it the jawline? Possibly...? I dunno, it's an interesting question, but there is definitely a certain look that makes me think "this is a rich white guy." Jared Harris, for instance, I wouldn't have an opinion about his wealth or class, but Lee Pace's features for some reason scream "wealthy". I could buy him as the emperor here, or as a Wall St. executive, or as an English nobleman from the 1800s, or as a Roman Senator, but they'd need to do a ton of makeup work before I could buy him playing a fast food worker or a homeless guy. Maybe it's the physical features, maybe it's the lack of like, scars or stress wrinkles and stuff that would indicate you've faced a lot of rough stuff in your past?
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Nov 5, 2021 17:28
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Cojawfee posted:That also annoyed me. We should either be seeing things as they really happen, or as the main character for the scene is seeing things. Don't just make things up to trick us. There was no reason to show us that, just say it with words first and then show the truth later. Yeah, I see this once in a while and I always hate it. If you see it on screen that should mean it happened. It's fine if you want an unreliable narrator, but if you put it on screen, then it's no longer unreliable -- we watched it happen firsthand! And when it turns out to be a lie regardless, it's not just the narrator being unreliable, it feels like the producers were lying to us, the audience. While I was watching that scene, I did realize that an awful lot hinged on everyone taking Empire at his word when he said he'd never heard of the flower, but then they actually showed the sand swirling around and showing it to him and I was like oh, okay, I guess this is genuine. Despite that, I really liked this episode, including Empire's storyline. I was really disappointed to see him be so petty about the deposed priestess. Demerzel said it -- he'd already won, in such a convincing fashion as to bring even more glory to his line. I suppose it shouldn't be much of a shock considering that old painter guy that he vaporized in the first episode, but I like that they show him as a more textured character than Generic Ruthless Despot, and I was expecting him to leave her alive in disgrace as part of the elegant victory that he pulled off.
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Nov 6, 2021 01:57
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:Not only that but it's amazingly fast to be able to go from one solar system to another in just 180 whatever years... I tend to give a pass to most sci fi shows when it comes to travel time in space, since the sheer magnitude of space makes it difficult to tell any sort of story that doesn't take place in a single solar system, if you're concerned with realism. It is a super huge bummer that it would literally take a hundred human lifetimes even for light to travel to the planet with the fish people, but if you want to tell a story about meeting the fish people you've gotta just speed up the ship somehow. That said, this show is kinda pushing it, but it's still whatever -- the Empire has instant travel that folds space, everyone else has to use ships that outperform lightspeed travel but still take decades (which is used as a caveat to skip time and insert characters into future time periods.)
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Nov 6, 2021 15:12
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Rutibex posted:Thats not true, you can have hard sci-fi stories about the USS Enterprise traveling around the galaxy. Its just the journey is one-way and Earth will be a burnt out husk before they reach their first planet. But due to time dilation the crew of the exploration ship will experience everything just like a warp drive. Yep, and the Enterprise is an ancient hunk of junk by halfway through the first season and the crew spends the rest of their days as an oddity in a space zoo after the first time they encounter any hostile aliens. It's just that it's a significant constraint on any story you're trying to tell, and it limits the stories that are able to be told. Star Trek wouldn't be Star Trek if they left the Federation a thousand years behind the first time they traveled. It's fine if you think stories that respect those rules are more interesting, but a lot of fun sci fi stories couldn't have been written at ALL without breaking them.
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Nov 6, 2021 16:18
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Glimpse posted:In the podcast of the show, the word of god is that the non-jumpships don’t travel faster than light, and that the Foundation colony ship did about half the speed of light, so we have to assume that this galaxy is not much larger than our solar system. But that doesn't make any sense either! That's what I mean -- at some point you just have to wave your hands and accept that in this universe it is somehow possible to cross half the galaxy in 38 years while also not exceeding the speed of light. Maybe the speed of light is a lot faster here? Or okay, maybe there's an entire galaxy's worth of stuff in the volume of a single solar system. Real life space travel is several orders of magnitude more difficult and time-consuming than you can really deal with while telling certain kinds of stories, so I usually don't mind telling myself "okay, it just works like that I guess" without thinking into it any deeper. Even something like The Expanse has to give up and handwave a magic gate once they want to write stories about humanity leaving the solar system.
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Nov 6, 2021 18:04
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I can't wait til this show is finally over so I can read the books. I got em a few weeks back but I figured I might as well wait and not spoil the show for myself, and at this point I'm eager to find out just how terribly this whole thing was adapted, just from all the complaints I read in the thread. I made myself wait til I finished season 2 of the Expanse before I read the books (at the time, the most recent season) and I was pleasantly surprised at how well the show adapted the material, even exceeding the quality of the books in a lot of places. I'm guessing I won't be thinking that here, though. But from a non-book-reader's perspective, this is no worse than any other Syfy show that gets their own dumb little following. Production values - great. Worldbuilding - interesting. Empire - steals every scene. Plot - okay, a little slapdash and filled with plot holes, but whatever, the bad guys came to Terminus and kidnapped a bunch of people to help them steal a ship so they can 9/11 Trantor, only here's Salvor Hardin and her mysterious psychic abilities to maybe throw a wrench in the plan? The broad strokes are fine, even if the minute-to-minute stuff can be a little stupid. I give it a solid B- so far.
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Nov 9, 2021 20:01
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Okay so I'm halfway through the first book and What the gently caress? What the fuccck?? Why did they make such a plodding, meandering show out of such a fun little book? All along I've been like "I dunno guys it's not that bad, is it?  " and it's just that they decided to make a weird generic uninspired sci-fi show and decorate it with stuff from the Foundation books like tinsel on a Christmas tree. poo poo, I would be pissed too. The show is just such a pointless deviation from a really streamlined little story and basically every deviation is for the worse. This is like The Watch for Asimov fans.I might post more once I finish the book, but I just finished the Salvor Hardin bits (I think? Vault has opened twice now and I'm about to read about a dude from the Trader guild after a time jump) and this would not have even been a very hard story to tell on screen! A little bit of politicking, some space porn, and then watch fun scenes of our plucky protagonists deviously subverting their enemies by teaching science as religion. And it would have been hilariously better than what they've told so far!
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Nov 12, 2021 01:02
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Tom Guycot posted:Yeah, theres always this sort of attitude about Foundation that its brainy and weird or 'impossible to adapt', but I think people forget these were always breezy page turners meant to keep people buying monthly pulp magazines at the news stand. It was never Finnegans Wake. I mean, I'm on track to finish this thing in about four hours altogether. I'm a pretty quick reader, but this isn't a super complex tale, it's just quick, fairly self-contained stories that move pretty fast. I just got to what I think is the very first scene where a woman is actually present. She is mouthy and so her husband gives her a fancy spacedress and she immediately calms down. Loving the 50s!
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Nov 12, 2021 02:02
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Hah, the 1950s stuff is kinda funny in a lot of places, though. It reminds me of the Fallout games -- because I forget that the crazy 1950s future of the Fallout games comes from actual 1950s sci-fi, of course -- in that they thought nuclear power was the very pinnacle of science and would become ubiquitous, and so they're picturing tiny nuclear reactors powering just about everything (they could fit a whole laundry machine in the space of a small closet!), and they're talking about shooting nuclear weapons like they were just artillery. And there's a spot or two where they refer to the weapon that a common soldier carries as a "nuclear blast", which I assume to Asimov meant a blaster that fired some sort of nuclear-powered laser, but sounds dangerously like these grunts are firing nuclear bombs whenever they feel the urge. e: vvvv I've heard of that thing haha, but from context it was just a laser rifle, they made it seem like you could shoot someone with it and other people in the room would be fine. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 04:17
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Tom Guycot posted:Whats interesting when they talk about all the nuclear weaponry, is the foundation isn't even 50's, the first story was in 1942. I think the last story of the second book, 'The Mule' is the first foundation story even published after nuclear bombs existed, and even then it was only 2 months after Hiroshima. All the previous stories pre-date even the trinity test. Yeah, it is really quaint how they just assume nuclear power is just going to mean clean, reliable power sources for everything, and just I guess really efficient guns and stuff. There is a mention or two of radiation, so it's not like they were completely unaware of the dangers, but it was presented as something that only happened because the Empire was starting to break down, and if Asimov imagined it killing thousands and leaving the area hopelessly irradiated then it was very understated. And there is a certain cognitive dissonance I had to overcome when they talked about how the Anacreons, who'd sent a delegation in a spaceship to their planet, didn't have nuclear power anymore. Like, how did they travel through space then? poo poo, this was before the space race and highly concentrated rocket fuel, were people supposed to picture spaceships with big oil tanks just chugging their way through the void? But yeah, fun book and utterly unlike this show except for the very barest, muddled outline of the plot. I do see how they're going to have a hard time with the timeskips and the entire second half of the book where Hari and Hardin are just legends. I don't know if any show has the balls to just fire the entire cast after the first couple seasons, but if I was doing it I'd maybe mush the time periods a little closer together so an older Hardin is available for advice, and seed Hober Mallow as maybe one of the younger Anacreon soldiers that invade Terminus? BTW, maybe I missed something in Hober Mallow's speech at the end -- why were they cool to just sit on their heels for a few years? Okay, the bad guys depend on trade with the Foundation, but what stops them from blowing up Foundation in the meantime with their nuclear-powered(!) spaceships?
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Nov 12, 2021 05:22
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Rutibex posted:I thought exactly the same thing when I first read Foundation. I assume it must be like that episode of Star Trek TNG where the drug addict planet doesn't know how to fix their own space ship any more This is what I thought too, but during the Hober Mallow bits they were specifically worried about nuclear powered ships, implying everyone else was using ships powered by.... coal? gasoline? I'm curious as to what a 1940s sci fi author thought could get a spaceship to travel between solar systems with anything less than nuclear power. Even with decades of refinement we can barely get to the moon using chemical fuels.
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Nov 12, 2021 06:04
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Nitrousoxide posted:He seems to react to the presence of the people watching, so I doubt it's a recording. How did Hari make the vault if he died before they got to Terminus? I guess he went there in the past? And had a first-class team of particle physicists to create a one-of-a-kind null field that none of the scientists in the Foundation would even be able to identify? And then he made them all swear to take the technology to their grave? [very minor not-really-a-spoiler-anymore from the book]The vault in the book is literally just a room with chairs in it for people to watch the hologram, and everyone knew it was Hari's vault and it was planned to open on a certain day, so what the gently caress is the point of turning it into a giant mysterious alien obelisk that might just kill everyone? You guys spoiled that it was Seldon's vault from episode 1, but I can't imagine an unspoiled viewer getting to this point and finding out that the crazy unexplained alien obelisk was haha, just good ol' Hari somehow. I'm glad I read the book so I finally get just how ridiculous this all was. I can't believe the best parts are the ones they made up themselves. Every single time they've tried touching the Cliff Notes summary of Foundation that they scribbled on a bar napkin, they poo poo the bed and can't help from turning it into the dumbest caliber of C-list cliche-riddled action movie, but their original stuff with the Cleons has been surprisingly good, even with the latest twist. I'm pretty sure someone called it earlier -- Demerzel is ultimately behind all this with some sort of plan to stop the Emperor from stagnating. They made a point of showing us she's the only one with access to the clones, so she must have granted the rebels access and planted the gardener lady.
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Nov 13, 2021 02:40
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Dead on Arrival posted:To paraphrase, "This plan has been effect long before either of us were born." Who do you think that is referring to? They had a tagline about a plan in Battlestar Galactica too, and we all know how that went. Caros posted:Sure was a lucky coincidence that she happened to be outside his window when he tried to suicide. Or they likely never would have met. And that he became weirdly infatuated with her. And that he didn't decide to immediately have her murdered to cover up the incident. And that Dawn never pointed out his flaws at a young age before he could fully understand the danger. Or that something like him being left handed went entirely unnoticed by the sophisticated robot mom that constantly attends them. I'm still betting sophisticated robot mom is behind the whole plot, which would explain some of the inconsistencies -- maybe the gardener was planted just to help smuggle out the clone DNA, for instance, and they just decided to roll with it when Dawn became infatuated with her. They could have had another plan that would have kicked in at some other point to swap out Dawn with the other clone, but they ended up not needing it. Man, I really wish I had waited til the end of the show to read the books, because now I'm in two minds about the whole thing. On the one hand, I can still remember how I felt before I read the first book and it's like yeah, this is a kinda dumb but serviceable show with a cool premise and and an interesting world. And then I think why the gently caress did they blow up such a cool premise with this 7th grade creative writing assignment instead of just adapting the drat source material?
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Nov 14, 2021 07:06
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GABA ghoul posted:Show is dumb as rocks but some goons seem genuinely confused by the concept of improvisation. If he still had his personal shield, she would have had to talk him into taking it off. If she hadn't been able to do that, she would have waited for reinforcement with some EMP device or something that can take it out. Or drugged him and took it off. Or whatever. Yeah, this is what I've been saying -- a lot of the plans that seem to rely on lucky things happening are probably not actually plans as much as people taking advantage of random things that happen. It's a little convenient that we never had to see whatever complicated plan they would have had to come up with to get Dawn out of the palace, but it just kinda dropped into their laps because yeah, their sheltered virgin 20-year-old got the thirst for the first cute girl he ever meets (totally crazy thing to spring on us, I know). And again, assuming Demerzel is behind it, they've got plenty of time and access and are in no rush, so a lot of these little plot holes are somewhat explained. Even with the far more ridiculous Anacreon plot, a lot of it can be explained by improvisation and the Anacreons just kinda flying by the seat of their pants on a desperate suicide mission led by a nutjob. Show is still thoroughly mediocre though, but I'm not as bummed out by the new twists in the Cleon plotline as much as some of you guys seem to be.
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Nov 14, 2021 17:02
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Auuuugh I'm on book 4 now and it makes me so mad they didn't just adapt the drat work. When you buy an IP, most of the time you just need to shut the gently caress up and adapt it, and not let whatever rear end in a top hat trust fund kids just steal the names to slap onto on their own lovely sci fi story. Looks like the finale's up. e: Empire is a super chill and reasonable dude Phenotype fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 03:48
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gohmak posted:The show is called Foundation, is supposed to be about the Foundation and the one character they developed from the Foundation left it. It's like the show isn't about the Foundation at all. What's more, the only compelling storyline is a brand new character (x3) that has no real analogue from the books. I kinda wish they wouldn't have bothered with the Foundation IP and just done a full show about the life and times of the Cleons. galenanorth posted:I don't really get why finding out all the other clones are adulterated wouldn't lead Brother Day into deciding "it's either her or me" and trying to get rid of Dermerzel, lest she try to kill him, too Yeah, this fucks me up too. If her loyalty is to the pure Cleon dynasty, though, I don't know that she'd kill Day too, knowing that the entire line of clones is hosed and there's no pure Cleon to replace him with. I was so sure Demerzel was behind all the cloning fuckery in the first place, though, and I don't know how to reconcile that with snapping Dawn's neck. Maybe it was just a red herring showing her keeping the other Cleons away from the clones, but it's also hard to imagine rebels being able to infiltrate past all the Empire's technology and secretly accessing the clones without her help.
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Nov 19, 2021 15:48
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DogsInSpace! posted:Five minutes of passable court intrigue and good acting surrounded by 90% Star Wars rip-off does not sound fun. To be fair, it's more like 30-40% of passable court intrigue and good acting, and the 60-70% it's surrounded by is more of a Dune rip-off.
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Nov 20, 2021 15:12
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:I think not knowing one single thing, or even hearing about, the source material is a requirement. Then maybe, just maybe, you might be able to enjoy it. Can confirm. Read the first trilogy the week before the season finale, and now I have two competing perspectives in my head whenever I think about the show. One from before I read them that goes "well, this is a little dumb but it's an interesting premise" and then another that just goes "what the gently caress what the fuccckkk" over and over.
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Nov 21, 2021 17:10
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etalian posted:For a last ditch effort the Empire realize the Cleon clones are ineffective so the only solution is to have the empire ruled by Arnold clones. Three generations later, all hell breaks loose when Brother Dawn grows up to look like Danny Devito.
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Nov 30, 2021 19:09
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