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Only seen the 1st episode so far but I was very impressed by how it looked and the performances of some of the key cast members - Jared Harris of course, but Lee Pace is great as Brother Day (and I love the 3-in-1 Emperor concept), and I always forget how good Reece Shearsmith is at playing grubby little scheming assholes. I haven't read the books so no idea where any of this is going to go or develop, but it's cool seeing something that looks as good and high budget as this as a television series with time to breath rather than an ultra condensed movie.
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Sep 24, 2021 23:05
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THIS_IS_FINE posted:My favorite parts continue to be the adventures of the Cleons. I love the concept and so far it's developed in really interesting ways. Day becoming Dusk and having to eat poo poo from the version of him he raised from Dawn to Day rules, even if he's as guilty of the same kind of utter self-assurance that HE is the only one who truly understands the right thing to do. I'll be interested if the current Dawn's issues are just the same kind of uncertainty and confusion that ALL Dawns feel as they grow, or if there is something to Darkness' noting that something was wrong as he was marching to his death (or if that, too, is just how all Dusks react when their turn to become Darkness arrives). The Foundation stuff itself so far I'm finding less interesting than the Cleon stuff, though I like Salvor and the idea that Hari's plan has developed followers who have come to treat their mission with a kind of blind religious fervor.
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Oct 9, 2021 06:30
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Yeah, I've never read the books and it's just fine.
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Oct 10, 2021 12:06
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chaosbreather posted:I’m loving Foundation but how the gently caress did the robot through inaction allow dusk to be vaporised? Is Asimov’s three laws aren’t going to be thing or is she convinced that his death is required for the survival of humanity somehow? I haven't read the books but via what I've picked up through cultural osmosis I assumed she is the robot that worked out the "loophole" that preventing one human from dying might actually cause further human deaths, so therefore it was allowed to through inaction let a human kill themselves? Meaning that, given the situation we've seen set up in this series for the Empire to continue, Dusk must become Darkness and die to allow a new Dawn which will maintain the stability of the Empire and theoretically keep the maximum number of humans from harm?
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Oct 11, 2021 22:24
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Farm Frenzy posted:this is a hundred million dollar show about what would happen if slavoj zizek totally owned steven pinker in a debate. yes it is very silly its fun Imagining this show with Zizek cast as Hari now 
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Oct 12, 2021 00:15
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Lewis giving me big dumb gently caress energy He's gonna give that lady the navigation module and it's gonna end up being the key to lowering the shield or something 
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Oct 14, 2021 01:37
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This episode had no Lee Pace so I'm mad Liked everything involving Gaal figuring out a way around the authorization limitations to figure out her destination but the stuff on Terminus where of course everything went exactly according to the Huntress' master plan felt a little contrived - like why wouldn't Salvor open her communication with "Hey they've got a cloaked anti-spaceship cannon down here"? That seems like pretty important information and though she wasn't to know the Huntress' #2 had orders to let comms stay open long enough to trick the Imperial Commander into ordering her to the tower, they were banking a lot on that cannon (that they prepped completely in the open in front of Salvor!) information not being conveyed in that window and completely blowing their strategy to pieces.
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Oct 15, 2021 05:03
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:I thought the Huntress lady explained that Anacreon is technologically bankrupt, and their only means of getting revenge for the Empire's attack on their homeworld is to use a navigation module from one of their ships. She claimed she wanted the navigation module because they didn't have star maps and so couldn't venture out far beyond Anacreon's solar system, and Salvor correctly guesses she was just saying anything she could because she wanted to get into the Control Tower for some reason. It wasn't until it was too late that Salvor figured out it was so she could bring down the system powering the town's shield, because her only (immediate) goal was to get inside and cause as much death and pain as possible to people she holds responsible for her planet being a nuclear wasteland.
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Oct 20, 2021 08:38
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The big concern for Empire about that particular lady, as shown in her speech in this latest episode, is that she preaches the idea that souls must continually be reborn in a neverending reincarnating cycle in order to grow and develop and change, and any soul that doesn't go through this process is flawed or somehow not truly human. It's brought up in either the last episode or the one before during one of the Cleon dinner scenes, if she takes power then one of the biggest religions in the galaxy (the biggest?) will have as a core tenet of their beliefs that the unending rule of Cleon is an abomination, that the three of them are a trapped soul (or even soulless) that is not undertaking its proper and divine course of birth, death and rebirth. I guess the equivalent would be if the Archbishop of Canterbury declared that the Queen was a soulless abomination in the eyes of God? Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 13:29
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Not knowing the exact nature of Brother Dawn's color-blindness, I wonder what he sees when he looks at the motion mural thing that is supposed to be such a big deal to the trio? I assume he can still see all the detail, but just not the color (or the exact colors) that make it pop for everybody else.
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Oct 24, 2021 01:26
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Wow, Hari Seldon's a loving dick.  boo boo bear posted:why would you program a hologram to feel pain? It's a 1-for-1 exact copy of his mind up to the moment of his death, he's not programmed to feel pain, he's feeling actual (non-existent) pain until he realizes he's not once it sinks in he's no longer the original Hari. I actually thought they did a good job setting the stage for this with the earlier scene of Dawn explaining how a spare Dawn/Day/Dusk are kept constantly at the ready if needed to come into existence with the full memories/experience/feelings of the version that died/got damaged to the point they "had" to be euthanized not to mention the Commander explaining he has a device that records everything he sees and hears etc. I had a much bigger problem, as usual, with the Huntress killing the one guy she knew for a fact was recognized by the ship as a military commander because apparently she assumed there would be zero other military access checks after the first one. Not to mention Salvor, who in previous episodes literally explained that she can program an energy shield to only recognize the settlers as valid and block access by anybody else, going ahead and programming the energy shield they found in the ship to let them all through including the Anacreons. Not to mention the confirmation that her entire plan really would have been completely hosed if the commander hadn't survived his entire ship being blown out of the sky and exploding into a million pieces (that did manage to kill his entire crew but only left him with some scratches). Right now my guess is that Salvor's boyfriend is going to have jetpacked his way back, collected the commander's corpse and the device in his head and will use that to contact the military otherwise those both feel like extremely odd elements to have introduced and then.... they're just gone.
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Oct 29, 2021 12:58
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Also just want to stress AGAIN that their ENTIRE plan revolved entirely around taking hostage the commander of an Empire warship and the way they executed this plan was to.... shoot the warship out of the sky and have it hit the ground at speed and blow up, and just assumed he would survive this enormous explosion. Waiting for the plan to blow up Trantor to be a delivery mechanism for their REAL plan to kidnap one of the Three Emperors because they assume he'll somehow survive the orbital bombardment and be found alone floating on a small piece of rock and this plan will work somehow. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Oct 29, 2021 |
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Oct 29, 2021 23:50
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Wafflecopper posted:Look, empire ships have really good airbags okay Only the one though! Also this is sheer wild speculation but did anyone else get the impression the gardener might be trying to play Dawn to get him away from the safety of the palace to use for her own purposes, whether political or religious or whatever? That would also be an rear end-pull of insane proportions given the unlikelihood of her ever meeting Dawn let alone interacting heavily with him but to me that whole sequence talking about the Scar seemed..... off, somehow.
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Oct 29, 2021 23:55
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stephenthinkpad posted:Whatever your complaint of the huntress is, my biggest complaint is they don't even bother to do make up on her blind eye. The actress doesn't even act like she has a hole on her face. I think they just cgi black color on her left eye. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't she retrieve the "eye" which is now all burned out from its use and put it back in her eyesocket? So it isn't a hole in her face, just a blackened false eye? Zazz Razzamatazz posted:Anyone else think it's weird that what's-her-name is always carrying a bow and arrow? I know she's called the huntress, but the rest of her guys have space rifles. Surely you can hunt with a space rifle. I'll "defend" this in that the bow has been clearly explained right from the first episode as being the symbol of the highest hunter of the Anacreon people, and it serves not only as a status symbol but an unassailable symbol of her leadership position. I mean, there's no reason she couldn't carry it over her back and use a gun like everybody else anyway, but at least they have established its importance.
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Oct 30, 2021 04:33
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It would actually be a lot easier if the show was "just" awful, because then I'd happily just stop watching. But there are enough little glimpses of what the show could be, and some genuinely cool and interesting ideas (I loving love the 3 Emperor set-up they've got going) that I keep watching hoping the show is just having trouble finding its groove and maybe it might get there.
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Oct 30, 2021 08:13
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Google Butt posted:How they just killed off the love interest dude in the beginning of the episode with with 0 setup lmao, like, just later dude??? Given the earlier scene showing he used to work on asteroid mines like this when he was younger I've just naturally assumed he deliberately "missed" the inner ring so he could come back and take a shot at aiding Salvor later, similarly I think the fact they went out of their way to mention the military commander had a device in his head that has recorded everything that happened and can be transmitted back to Trantor if they find a device that these two things will have further implications. With that said, it would be absolutely hilarious if nope he literally did just die and that's that, the end no moral.
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Oct 30, 2021 08:38
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Tom Guycot posted:It would be kind of cute to see what a straight up rigid adaptation of one of his where everyone is smoking like its the 50's and all the sets, and ships, and planets are straight off the cover of Amazing Stories rendered in modern AAA quality would be like. People in space ships getting physical messages delivered in tubes, everyone talking about ATOMIC everything, wearing capes and printing newspapers, but not treating any of it as camp or a joke. Really, what's the point in being a
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Oct 31, 2021 09:38
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Ur Getting Fatter posted:She also uses it in a practical way to capture the Huntress. It's a pity that the way obelisk works is that it can only knock somebody out once and then never works on them again. That explains why she didn't fly the space-craft that can fly low to the ground into the sphere of influence (that she pointed out in an earlier episode was expanding) and knock everybody out, tie up the Anacreons and then fly it back out to wake her fellow Foundations members and use the tunnel system also shown earlier to infiltrate the town and retake it. Or maybe she knew that would turn out to have been the Huntress' plan all along and she has actually given her EXACTLY what she had already planned on 
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Nov 2, 2021 00:15
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:Wait, is that how it works? I thought it always knocked people out. No that can't be right, because if it was Salvor would have flown the spaceship over there instead of far above it! Seriously though, the obelisk makes any living being that comes too near to it pass out and nobody builds up any resistance to it, and the only person we've seen be immune to it is Salvor. She used the trick once and it worked, and there is zero reason she couldn't have pulled exactly the same thing again, except that the Huntress for whatever reason keeps getting these bullshit pure chance escapes while smugly acting like it was all part of her super-genius plan.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:49
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"You rely on luck, I rely on skill" feels like it was written intentionally and solely to troll me personally Especially when the Huntress is caught dead to rights by Salvor AGAIN and the loving gun jams, let me guess that was also somehow part of her master plan. It's been said before, but it's loving unbelievable that you can have a scene where a character says,"I literally don't care how many people I kill or how much collateral damage it causes," followed immediately by,"If you do what I say I promise I won't kill your people" and the other character appears to genuinely believe them. Also wow a sentry gun set up by officers at the bridge eh? Sure would be handy to have somebody recognized by the ship as an Imperial Officer for that bit, eh!?! Also "exo.... maybe they jumped outside of the galaxy and meet strange aliens out there!" felt like an incredible stretch out of nowhere. I'm gonna go ahead and guess weird alien parasite that takes over bodies because gently caress it why not go full Event Horizon? Anyway, that was the bad. The Lee Pace stuff was phenomenal and though the voiceover at the end felt entirely extraneous since it was repeating what was said literally 30 seconds earlier, I really dug every bit of that storyline in the episode, as well as the follow up with the Zephyr which I thought was really good.
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Nov 5, 2021 09:42
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Trantor somehow gets word of what is happening, loads up all their defense platforms but some dopey guy trips over and spills his tea on the control panel and none of the anti-spacecraft guns fire when the Invictus arrives. "My skill and intense planning trumps all once more," gloats the Huntress.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:05
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Tom Guycot posted:I don't understand why Day would even give a poo poo about not seeing a vision. Hes not a member of this religion, so he certainly doesn't believe in whatever magic gods they worship, so why would he even expect to see a vision? I definitely got the impression that walking the spiral actually did end up reaching him/touching him, as represented by his brief friendship with the other pilgrim. For the first time in his life he got to chat with just some regular dude as a peer, he was touched by his drive and motivation, and perhaps most tellingly of all when the guy dropped to a knee Day actually offered to help and return the favor he was given himself which is kind of huge. He actually did have something akin to a "revelation" in that he felt changed and even demonstrated some empathy - he did move the guy to the side of the road, taking up a lot of his own energy and strength to do so, perhaps in hope the guy might end up surviving or even just as a final mark of respect to a guy he liked/valued. So for him to go through all that and then realize when he arrives in the cave that he is NOT going to get the vision must be a massive gutpunch. Whether he ever believed the visions would be true or not, by the end of the walk he clearly hoped they would be, and he's faced with a choice to either assume NOBODY does/it's just a hallucination or that they're right about him being soulless and, and in either case he feels he has no choice but to make up a vision. He benefits from the other pilgrim's description of how the vision starts and can work from there, but I feel like that single tear he cries when the Zephyrs proclaim him holy isn't just him acting but him being miserable to know it isn't actually true. Which probably makes the discovery that a literal loving robot had a vision when he did not hurt him all the more. I said before that if this show was just all bad, it would be easier because I could just stop watching. Those moments that work REALLY work though, and it's almost always revolving around the 3 Emperors and Lee Pace in particular. I think he's great.
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Nov 6, 2021 02:25
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I think it demonstrates something that we've also seen with Brother Dawn, which is that Empire have been so insulated for so long but give any of them even the slightest exposure to an outside perspective, particular;y when they themselves have knowingly made themselves vulnerable - Dawn with the gardener, Day with the pilgrim, Dusk with the priest etc - and they do have it in them to shift their ideas and understanding of things away from the Cleon "standard" that one egotistical rear end in a top hat enforced on his empire centuries earlier. That's part of the tragedy, something Hari has told them and the Zephyr as well, that they're stagnant. The sad thing is that they don't have to be, each of them clearly has the potential to change and adjust but they're so locked in (partly by fear, partly by security, partly by genuine belief) to remaining the perfect "Cleon" that they never follow through. Dawn might, mostly because he's already "flawed" so the impetus is there to explore different ideas, but the Day who reached the cave was very different to the Day who started on the spiral, and it's sad that this growth is strangled in the crib when he doesn't get the vision he was told pilgrims get, and doubled back down on being Cleon the perfect Emperor.
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Nov 6, 2021 03:20
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Powered Descent posted:The other way to look at that is that (continuing with episode 8 spoilers) he imposed his own values and morals, whether they were wanted or not, just as he's done his whole life. The old guy seemed perfectly content to die on that path, and moving him off of it and (possibly) saving his life was a major violation of the rules. He cheated the old dude out of the death that he wanted, that he had spent his life savings to come and get, and that he had been heading toward for his entire life. All ruined because Brother Day didn't want his new friend to die. I'm not sure that's the way I would see it myself, but it's a valid perspective... and the one several in-universe characters would be likely to have if they knew all the facts. Yeah this is absolutely a valid way of looking at it, I agree, even if he perceived his own motives to be purely altruistic.
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Nov 6, 2021 05:28
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So does everybody else figure that (Terminus) Lewis is going to have plugged himself into the Also speaking of that plan.... what exactly is the logic there? She wants to keep the Huntress from getting her hands on the ship so she's taking the ship with the Huntress on it back to Terminus where... the Huntress' fanatical armed supporters currently are?
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Nov 6, 2021 06:49
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Combat Pretzel posted:That one bugged me a whole lot. It shouldn't, because it's the typical trope of the hero not being a killer. To be fair, Salvor did eventually try to kill the Huntress, but unfortunately she hadn't accounted for the Huntress' reliance on pure skill to ensure that Salvor's gun would just randomly jam when she took aim at her. Really showcases how the Huntress' intense training in.... guns suddenly just not firing when aimed at her....? has paid of.
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Nov 7, 2021 14:07
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Those nameless goons weren't skilled enough to make her gun randomly jam out of nowhere, so it's their own fault for not training hard enough and developing their skills 
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Nov 8, 2021 07:30
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Tom Guycot posted:He was described physically as A huge red haired mutant with super strength that had to wear special opaque glasses due to his eyes having the ability to kill people on sight. lmao. Is this some of that "hard Sci-Fi" I've been hearing so much about? 
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Nov 10, 2021 01:12
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:It's pretty dumb, one hurricane would wipe their little village out. Why is the landing pad submerged under a foot of water, couldn't they build it just a little higher? Where do they get the wood for building their homes and making fires from, anyway? There are still sections of dry land, but so little now that they reserve them for farms/gardens and presumably small forests they try to sustain in order to meet their resource needs. Gaal's dad worked on one of the remaining elevated pieces of land but lives with everybody else on the little villages based out in the water since presumably the remaining land wouldn't be able to both provide them with homes AND be used to feed them and produce materials. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 22:43
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Episode 9: The we-have-Cleon-at-home Cleon's plan was kinda surreal. Apparently the organization/movement was savvy/connected enough to break into the palace, fiddle with the genetic code of Babby Dawn and take their own babby Dawn home with them all without anybody ever knowing but then when they learn that Dawn escaped because Dusk was going to kill him the plan for dealing with it is yeah but Dusk just.... won't.... when I show up pretending to be you? Apparently they're both incredibly subtle infiltrators with amazing technically advanced capability and an ability to long-term plan AND bumbling buffoons who were easily discovered and surveilled by the Empire's spymaster and Dusk was fully aware of everything they were (currently) doing the whole time  I did really like Brother Dusk in this though, the way he embodies the Lee Pace version of him we saw in the first episode, just older now, is a really nice touch. As for the Terminus storyline... well.... yeah I'm not so sure how strongly "violence is the last resort of the incompetent" lands when the resolution was Salvor killing the Huntress when her back was turned, and the less said about the way the Huntress managed to take out the two Thespin ships and then intimidate the armed Thespins to lower their weapons the better. The moment she landed and stepped smugly out out of the ship I was wishing so fervently she'd just be immediately blasted by the Thespins who would be super confused why she gave up her air superiority and came out completely exposed in their line of fire but then I guess that's skill for you! Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 07:32
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Speaking of laughing, I like the idea that after the Vault's null field went down all the Terminus citizens woke up and went,"Well let's go walk over to the Vault" and the Anacreons apparently went,"Let's just let them wander away from us while we have a little chat, then chase after them and catch up later."
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Nov 12, 2021 08:42
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:Hari's brilliant plan is to hope a Chosen One is born that will be immune to the null field effect- and if not then everyone on Terminus dies. I'm going to "defend" this part at least: it was made clear in the previous episode that Hari thought Gaal would be running Terminus, and he probably assumed she would have figured out the vault immediately and he would bring her up to speed on the plan at that point (just not tell her about the Second Foundation) and get her to prep for the first crisis when it eventually came. I mean, this raises a lot of extra problems, not least of which is the presumably completely random appearance of the Invictus, but they did at least show last episode that Hari was concerned to discover Lewis was probably running Terminus and the right person wouldn't be in place for the first crisis so it does make sense that he would be relieved when the vault opens and everything seems to be largely in line with his plan. I feel bad for "defending" anything in this show at this point though. Just give me Terrence Mann and Lee Pace acting as older versions of their earlier incarnations. I'm looking forward to a Brother Day who is a nervous paranoid wreck and a Brother Dusk who is having an existential crisis.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:02
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BigPaddy posted:I presume you have seen Red Dwarf which doesn’t have any of the writers or cast from Darkplace but is a British Sci Fi comedy with a cult following. Polymorph and Backwards are two of the best sci-fi episodes I have ever seen. "Are you saying you just had my mum? "
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Nov 13, 2021 04:00
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And as somebody else mentioned, Salvor tells her "hey you're not thinking straight, not being sedated during a jump means you'll be suffering temporary psychosis!" but the Huntress is acting EXACTLY THE SAME AS SHE HAS FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON.
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Nov 13, 2021 09:05
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:Or having a voiceover reminding us of the Gardener's plan for Dawn to escape- just minutes after she'd already explained it. Last episode: Robot Lady: I had a vision. I'm glad you did too, I can't think of anything worse than going there and not having one because it means you don't have a soul. Day flashes back to being in the cave, where he is not having a vision Robot Lady (voiceover): I can't think of anything worse than going there and not having one because it means you don't have a soul
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Nov 14, 2021 02:47
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But the point was that they were doing a voiceover we literally just heard like 20 seconds earlier to explain what we were seeing now, which itself was showing what happened as a direct response to what was said! It was crazy.
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Nov 14, 2021 03:40
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Now I can't help but contrast Salvor etc making the jump to the inner ring of the Invictus with Gordo & Tracey making the race outside of the moonbase to reset the nuclear generator and goddammit I've been trying my best to look on the bright side but Foundation is just a bad show  Hell, even comparing it to the Expanse and Naomi moving through the oxygen-less parts of the ship to try and trace circuitry in order to mask a message inside another message is just so much better than what we got in this season
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Nov 14, 2021 11:18
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Rutibex posted:Seems like a waste of good Cleons to vaporize them. Why not taxidermy all of them? It would be quite striking to have a room full of Cleons If the original Cleon had died at Lee Pace age they would absolutely be keeping all the bodies to put on display, but NOOOOOO he had to go and die of old age
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Nov 18, 2021 00:28
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I would have laughed my rear end of if the Thespin had said,"Slave the ship? What? Did somebody tell you that's how our ships worked? And you... believed them?  "Similarly if she had pointed out that a solo trader's ship probably uses a different security system to a military craft with a full crew.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:06
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I was also bewildered by (final scenes of the episode) Gaal appearing confused and surprised and devastated that her home planet was completely covered in water when... that was the entire reason she ended up giving up religion and abandoning the planet in the first place, because she mathed out that the planet was absolutely going to get flooded and entirely covered in water and nobody would listen to her. I'll pop by the thread at the end of season 2 and ask if it is worth catching up on, because at the moment it feels like the train has gone off the rails and rolled down a hill and exploded and I'm really not sure what the hell they can do next season to fix any of this.
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Nov 19, 2021 09:35
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