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Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.


About the Game

Fire Emblem: Three Houses is the 15th main title in the titular franchise, released in 2019 by Nintendo on the Switch. Taking the role of Byleth, a teacher at the Officer's Academy, a military school in Fodlan, the player must guide their students through trials and tribulations and try to discover the mystery of what is happening at the Academy and in the World at large. A turn based strategy game that was widely praised, it continued the example set by Fire Emblem Fates by splitting the game up into various routes, determined by the House the player chooses at the beginning of the game.

Owing to its popularity, Nintendo maintained DLC support through the game in the year after its release, crucially releasing a "Maddening" difficulty in September of 2019.

I'm not going to lie when I say that I love this game. Maddening especially. The freedom that you have to build your characters into killing machines resembles Fire Emblem Awakening in its creativity and Maddening makes pursuing that optimisation feel so much more rewarding.

About the LP

As mentioned earlier, Three Houses has multiple routes that you can follow. A prior LP, by Rea: Fire Emblem: Three Houses, or: 3 Fires, 3 Emblems, 3 Houses got through three of the four routes, ending after an amazing effort, just before the final route, Crimson Flower. The intent of this LP is to finish that route and that route alone.

To that extent, knowledge of the OTHER routes will be taken as given, you don't need to spoiler tag anything to do with them. But please keep any spoilers to do with the Crimson Flower route under tags until we get to the events.

The LP will be done on Maddening difficulty under New Game settings, so a run that would get a player the special title screen for its completion. The intent of the LP is to demonstrate (my opinion on) how to play Maddening and show tricks on dealing with each level under very limited resources.

It should be noted, that whilst the intent of the LP is to finish off Three Houses where Rea left off, the LP itself isn't intended as a pure continuation of the original. I don't know what pairings or ideas Rea had for the old LP and I have my own fun ideas for what I want to do with the characters.

Additionally this LP will take the form of a very very heavily edited VLP. The format, whilst typically not as good for Fire Emblem games, lends itself well to how I want to explain Maddening mode strategy and my own preferences as a player.

I'll be recording with a rotating host of colour commentators who'll ask me questions and point out dumb stuff that I did, I'll credit them as we go along.

The LP will update intermittently. The format, as mentioned, requires very heavy editing, so is more taxing on my time than a regular video. ((Additionally gameplay time requirements are much longer))

About Discourse

Discussion around Edelgard, the protagonist of this route, in the fanbase and across the internet, is for lack of a better word, appalling. I am absolutely determined that this thread does not sink into people screaming at each other over this.

There is absolutely a legitimate discussion to have around the morality and efficacy of what Edelgard does in this route and I am certain that we are capable of having that discussion in a way that's productive and engaging. That being said, if I get a whiff of someone attacking another poster or see drivebys of "Edelgard is a fascist" landing here, I will not be above locking the thread until next update or reporting offending posts to the moderators. This is a request to please be sensible and please be considerate of other posters, even if you fundamentally disagree with them.

Episodes

White Clouds
Episode 01 - Prologue - With Alxprit
Episode 02 - Mock Battle - With Alxprit
Episode 03 - Familiar Scenery - With Hunt11
Episode 04 - The Magdred Ambush - With Alxprit
Episode 05 - The Goddess's Rite of Rebirth - With Mustachionut
Episode 06 - Tower of Black Winds - With Alxprit
Episode 07 - Rumors of a Reaper - With Myself??
Episode 08 - Field of the Eagle and Lion - With Bifauxnen
Episode 09 - The Flame in the Darkness - With Alxprit
Episode 10 - The Cause of Sorrow - With Fedule
Episode 11 - Where The Goddess Dwells - With Alxprit
Episode 12 - Throne of Knowledge - With Alxprit
Episode 12.5 - Paralogeddon
Episode 13 - Outset of a Power Struggle - With Bifauxnen

Crimson Flower
Episode 14 - Beyond Escape - With Alxprit
Episode 15 - The Master Tactician - With Mustachionut
Episode 16 - Tempest of Swords and Shields - With Alxprit
Episode 17 - Lady of Deceit - With Seri
Episode 18 - Paralogue Roundup 2 - With Bifauxnen
Episode 19 - Field of Revenge - With ZeShado
Episode 20 - To End a Dream - With Alxprit
Crimson Flower But Needlessly Tragic

Unit Reviews

Byleth-M
Hubert von Vestra
Dorothea Arnault
Ferdinand Von Aegir
Petra Macneary
Linhardt von Hevring
Bernadetta von Varley
Caspar von Bergliez
Constance con Nuvelle
Lysithea von Ordelia
Shamir Nevrand
Leonie Pinelli
Felix Hugo Fraldarius
Annette Fantine Dominic
Marianne von Edmund
Lorenz Hellman Gloucester
Raphael Kirsten
Manuela Casagranda
Edelgard von Hresvelg
Jeritza von Hrym

Bonus Content!

Character Growth Progress 1
Character Growth Progress 2-1
Character Growth Progress 2-2
The Shadow Library 1
The Shadow Library 2
Fire Emblem Three Houses - Managing the Monastery

Links

Our Patreon! - In case you want to support our LPs and see episodes early!

Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Apr 21, 2023

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Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

Godspeed.

Anyone want some popcorn?

TeeQueue
Oct 9, 2012

The time has come. Soon, the bell shall ring. A new world will come. Rise, my servants. Rise and serve me. I am death and life. Darkness and light.

Ibblebibble posted:

Godspeed.

Anyone want some popcorn?

I’ll have some. Good luck you madman.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Hi I'm Alxprit and it's an honor to guest-star on the route I'm least likely to play myself. Woo, Let's Plays!

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

Gotta do something before Dread comes out, uh? Godspeed and get a moderator or two on speed dial to keep the discussion in check.

Oh, and godspeed on the game too.

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

Omobono posted:

Gotta do something before Dread comes out, uh?

Yeah, I wasn't expecting a new thread until Friday. Will this be sharing the stage with the blind Dread LP or will "heavy editing" mean "this is going to be done in a week"?

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

FeyerbrandX posted:

Yeah, I wasn't expecting a new thread until Friday. Will this be sharing the stage with the blind Dread LP or will "heavy editing" mean "this is going to be done in a week"?

Heavy editing means that a lot of stuff will be cut. For context, my run through Chapter 2 took me four hours but the video will be thirty minutes.

It also won't conflict with Dread which will run on our standard Monday/Wednesday/Friday release schedule. I'm basically making these videos as I go and I'll update and post the LP when they're ready, rather than adhering to my usually very strict update schedule.

midnight lasagna
Oct 15, 2016

this pit is full of stat boosters
3 Houses! I think this might be my favourite FE game in the whole series, at least when I view the game as a whole. Sometimes it feels like the more I enjoy a game's story the less I like playing it, but I feel like 3H has a great combination of writing and gameplay.

Jeralt's not actually capable of stealing the Kostas kill - in fact I'm pretty sure green units can't kill bosses at all. Jeralt can damage him but he'll never drop him below 1 HP. Doesn't stop them from trying though!

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



good luck nat20.

Faillen Angel
Aug 30, 2018

midnight lasagna posted:

Jeralt's not actually capable of stealing the Kostas kill - in fact I'm pretty sure green units can't kill bosses at all. Jeralt can damage him but he'll never drop him below 1 HP. Doesn't stop them from trying though!

this much is correct; the battle at remire is, in my experience, generally ended by jeralt running into solon turn after turn while the rest of my team cleans up

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.
Good luck and godspeed.

Rea
Apr 5, 2011

Komi-san won.
Let it be known that my only regret with ending my LP after three routes was that I never got to post this.



Sadly, some people could not stop aggro posting at each other over years-old video game discourse, and it got to me.

Godspeed, Natural 20.

McTimmy
Feb 29, 2008
Time for me to ruin another 3Hs thread :v:

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

midnight lasagna posted:

3 Houses! I think this might be my favourite FE game in the whole series, at least when I view the game as a whole. Sometimes it feels like the more I enjoy a game's story the less I like playing it, but I feel like 3H has a great combination of writing and gameplay.

Jeralt's not actually capable of stealing the Kostas kill - in fact I'm pretty sure green units can't kill bosses at all. Jeralt can damage him but he'll never drop him below 1 HP. Doesn't stop them from trying though!

That's really interesting. I've seen Jeralt murder the Remire boss so I just never left this one to chance. Obviously the prologue isn't very taxing but it's still really good to know!

Rea posted:

Let it be known that my only regret with ending my LP after three routes was that I never got to post this.



Sadly, some people could not stop aggro posting at each other over years-old video game discourse, and it got to me.

Godspeed, Natural 20.

As I mentioned before, that rules and the game should have had more bi and gay pairings in by default.

No I'm not still salty about Claude.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Natural 20 posted:

As I mentioned before, that rules and the game should have had more bi and gay pairings in by default.

No I'm not still salty about Claude.

I only started playing FE3H pretty recently, so when I picked a male Byleth and saw the only two male S-support options were Linhardt and Alois, I was like meh..... OK whatever, that's pretty slim pickings, guess I'll be Manuela's boytoy instead. Then one day I'm doing the old Talk To Everybody, and Alois mentions his wife and his whole happily married life, and I'm like wait, what?! It's not even two gay options?

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

Rea posted:

Let it be known that my only regret with ending my LP after three routes was that I never got to post this.



Sadly, some people could not stop aggro posting at each other over years-old video game discourse, and it got to me.

Godspeed, Natural 20.

Thanks for all the Etrian LPs over the years (was 5 archived?) and the 3H LP.

Natural 20 posted:

No I'm not still salty about Claude.

Liar :v:

SMaster777
Dec 17, 2013

I wish this was my Smash main.

Rea posted:

Let it be known that my only regret with ending my LP after three routes was that I never got to post this.



Sadly, some people could not stop aggro posting at each other over years-old video game discourse, and it got to me.

Godspeed, Natural 20.

....Dang, that would have been the perfect capstone to that LP too, considering how lethal she was in SS and AM.

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of Maddening's design philosophy, but at least the giant numbers boost for enemies and the time pressure of having the entire map eventually come down on your head if you take too long made you actually think about batallion usage. however... that's about it. They never really do much more of interest beyond throwing a pseudo-weapon triangle back in via the breaker skills (although there are a few cute additional skills that tend to come standard to specific unit types).

I preferred the really dialed in puzzle aspect of Conquest Lunatic, personally. They did some really clever things with completely recontextualizing maps with the changes they made there, whereas three houses is mostly just going from a complete sleep walk to having to think at least a little bit and have an optimized team. The strategy tends to be remarkably similar on most maps in practice I found so it's neat at first an quickly becomes tedious rather than fun.

That said, I'll still be looking forward to hearing your own opinions on it.

Faillen Angel
Aug 30, 2018

Bifauxnen posted:

I only started playing FE3H pretty recently, so when I picked a male Byleth and saw the only two male S-support options were Linhardt and Alois, I was like meh..... OK whatever, that's pretty slim pickings, guess I'll be Manuela's boytoy instead. Then one day I'm doing the old Talk To Everybody, and Alois mentions his wife and his whole happily married life, and I'm like wait, what?! It's not even two gay options?

For what it's worth, DLC adds two more. Men and women get three each of same-sex, playable character S-ranks that end in marriage.

Manic_Misanthrope
Jul 1, 2010


Godspeed, I'll occasionally contribute Lore and background stuff when appropriate.

Smiling Knight
May 31, 2011

Faillen Angel posted:

For what it's worth, DLC adds two more. Men and women get three each of same-sex, playable character S-ranks that end in marriage.

Hmm, but why do that when instead, I could S-rank ~~~~Gilbert~~~~.

McTimmy
Feb 29, 2008

Smiling Knight posted:

Hmm, but why do that when instead, I could S-rank ~~~~Gilbert~~~~.

Pros:
His S-support art is one of the least awful ones.

Cons:
Is Gilbert.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
Episode 02 - Mock Battle - With Alxprit

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.
I'm crushed at the implication that you don't intend to use Dancer Ferdinand.

Weeble
Feb 26, 2016
I'm just really curious as to what team you want to assemble.

I mean, props for wanting to use Dorothea and Edelgard, but you're a heathen for saying you've no plans for Bernie.

:cheeky:

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
Unit Reviews

Inspired by the excellent Conquest LP happening right now I thought I would get into reviewing the units that we have and will be recruiting. (And also explain why I'm using/not using units what my plans for them are)

Byleth-M



HP: 45%
Str: 45%
Lck: 45%
Mag: 35%
Def: 35%
Dex: 45%
Res: 30%
Spd: 45%
Cha: 45%

Strengths: Sword, Brawling, Authority
Aptitude: Faith: White Magic Avo +20: Grants Avo +20 when using white magic.
Personal Skill: Professor's Guidance: Multiplies this unit's and adjacent allies' experience earned by 1.2
Unique Class: Enlightened One

More Detail along with Rea's thoughts here: https://rhematic.net/fe3h_lp/updates/adan_abby/

Nat's Thoughts

For better or worse you're stuck with Byleth in this game. Off the bat it's important to note that FByleth is significantly better in maddening than MByleth and that I didn't pick her is an indicator that I'm not powergaming my character choices.

FByleth gains a free Sylvain which is huge because that's a free early Lance of Ruin and has Pegasus Knight access, which gives both Darting Blow (+6 Speed on initiation) for early on, guaranteeing doubles through the midgame and Falcon Knight access late (FK is arguably better than Wyvern Lord late, losing 5% str growth but gainin 10% spd growth in return). Additionally, if you're aiming that way, she makes for a competent magician with a decent spell list and access to Gremory as well as Dark Flier.

MByleth gets access to War Master and the warrior/brawler classes, granting Wrath and Quick Riposte. Whilst these can work, if you're going for a punch build, they have issues in that, especially on a shorter route like Crimson Flower, they come online very late. Wrath can work as part of a vantage crit build, but it's usually a lot more effort than its worth, especially compared to the mobility canto access generates.

In terms of their general stats, there's nothing too bad here, Byleth will usually come out as decently fast, decently tanky and with Enlightened One, will have a diverse set of attacks to work from. Access to the Sauna and Faculty training means that Byleth can do almost anything he wants by the mid to lategame and get those classes easily. Innate Distant Counter on the sword of the Creator does a lot to help with his attack diversity, especially with Ruptured Sky/Sublime Heaven as combat arts.

The issue that he has is ironically one generated by his generalist nature. Almost all Byleth's stats are on a slightly weighted coinflip, so if you're unlucky and toss tails too many times, you can end up with a main character that has surprisingly low strength and speed. Enlightened One, which has very good growths, unfortunately does nothing for speed in particular, so often Byleths can find themselves falling off late against enemies they should have been expecting to double.

The Plan

Byleth is going to go through Fighter for the +5 str growth rate, Brigand for Death Blow, Archer for Hit +20 before settling into Mercenary->Swordmaster->Assassin (We might throw in Trickster if we have time). The aim of this build order is to give him the best shot possible of getting good strength and speed growths as he levels so we can beat the coinflip and have something powerful to drop into Enlightened One for the endgame.

Wyvern Lord is possible but there isn't that much Faculty Tuition time available and getting Axes and Flying up that high whilst still being competitive on Maddening will be a big ask.

FrozenPhoenix71
Jan 9, 2019

Natural 20 posted:

Off the bat it's important to note that FByleth is significantly better in maddening than MByleth...

She also has a better design vs loser Guyleth.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


Having never played maddening, I always appreciate Byleth's solid growths because she's one of the few CF characters that can really take a hit, the other three being El, Ferdie, and Petra (she can't take a hit but she won't get hit). The rest of the crew feels REALLY flimsy, but then my Caspars have always sucked. Fortunately with DLC and creative recruiting you can close those tanky gaps, but it always felt like the achilles heel of the CF team and why Byleth feels so pivitol here.

FrozenPhoenix71 posted:

She also has a better design vs loser Guyleth.

Terrible fashion sense is 100% in character for her though.

FrozenPhoenix71
Jan 9, 2019

Eimi posted:

Terrible fashion sense is 100% in character for her though.

True, but the hair is just way too ugly on Guyleth for me.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


FrozenPhoenix71 posted:

True, but the hair is just way too ugly on Guyleth for me.

Oh yeah I mean even if Girleth is a fashion disaster she's the best.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


FrozenPhoenix71 posted:

True, but the hair is just way too ugly on Guyleth for me.

Aw I like his hair just fine... well, at least I did before it went all chalky minty mouthwash green.

What I really can't stand though is the Enlightened One outfit. That was what got me to finally bother changing unit appearances on anyone.

Smiling Knight
May 31, 2011

Eimi posted:

Having never played maddening, I always appreciate Byleth's solid growths because she's one of the few CF characters that can really take a hit, the other three being El, Ferdie, and Petra (she can't take a hit but she won't get hit). The rest of the crew feels REALLY flimsy, but then my Caspars have always sucked. Fortunately with DLC and creative recruiting you can close those tanky gaps, but it always felt like the achilles heel of the CF team and why Byleth feels so pivitol here.

Black Eagles absolutely have the toughest first few chapters on maddening for exactly this reason, imo. They have no one who starts with more than 6 defense. The Blue Lions, on the other hand, have Dimitri with 7 defense, Sylvain with 6 + 2 from his personal ability, and of course Dedue with his monstrous 8 + 4 from ability. Golden Deer have Raphael with 30 HP, 7 defense, and Leonie with 7 + 2 from ability.

These minor defense discrepancies might seem insignificant, but when most of your army is getting doubled by every enemy, and healing is limited, they make a huge difference (BE do have Dorothea for free healing, but it doesn't fully compensate for taking a lot more damage whenever you're luring enemies out unless you're standing around a real long time).

Caspar might the worst student character. He doesn't have the bulk to tank, doesn't have the strength to reliably two-shot like Dedue or Raph, but like them still gets doubled frequently and has poor Cha and authority. All he can do is go for the wyvern escape hatch, but wyvern salvages everyone in this game.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
Unit Reviews

Hubert von Vestra



HP: 35%
Str: 30%
Lck: 35%
Mag: 55%
Def: 25%
Dex: 45%
Res: 40%
Spd: 45%
Cha: 35%

Strengths: Bow, Reason, Authority
Weaknesses: Axe, Faith, Flying
Aptitude: Lance: Frozen Lance: +3 Mt, +5 Hit, +0 Crit, 1 range, costs 4 durability. Deals magic damage. Might increases based on user's Dexterity.
Personal Skill: Officer Duty: Grants Mt +5 with gambits.
More Detail along with Rea's thoughts here: https://rhematic.net/fe3h_lp/updates/hubert/

Nat's Thoughts
Oh Hubert. He’s only playable with the Black Eagles and only on the Crimson Flower route which means that he’s strictly optional and can be replaced with recruits. And on Maddening, you’re probably going to want to do that, unless you’re completely insane like a certain LPer.
So, what’s the problem? Hubert suffers from being a man. In the usual sense and in the sense that in Three Houses, men don’t get access to Gremory or Dark Flier, the best magic classes. This leaves Hubert in a spot of bother when it comes to finalising his build. It’s clear from his strengths and aptitude that he’s intended to become a Dark Knight by the end of the game, but unfortunately the class lacks the mobility of the aforementioned Dark Flier and the double casting charges of Gremory. Additionally, Crimson Flower is rife with obstacles that hinder cavalry movement later in the game, making his progression into that class even more uncomfortable. Top that off with a weakness in Faith and it becomes tremendously difficult for him to even find a role as a supporting character.

Inevitably the question Hubert faces is, “Why should I use this guy instead of Lysithea, Dorothea, Constance or Annette?” and if I’m honest, there isn’t a good answer for it unless you enjoy his gothy self.

So, what’s good about him and what can we do with him? His spell list is unique, with Dark Magic spells that focus on debuffing his opponents. Additionally with Mire he can strike from 3 range early in the game which means that he’s powerful early, when replacing him isn’t an option. His personal skill is excellent, five power extra power makes his gambits potent early and his authority strength means that he’ll get very powerful battalions in the mid to late game. He also has decent speed growth for a magic user, which makes him good for taking down armour units on maddening, if not enough to reliably defend him against the archers and bow knights that show up.

The Plan

Hubert is going to run Monk->Mage->Archer->Dark Mage->Warlock->Dark Bishop/Dark Knight.

It’s a simple plan, Mage gives him Fiendish Blow, Archer gives Hit+20, Dark Mage is for flavour. Warlock gives him Bowbreaker and then he’ll switch between Dark Bishop and Dark Knight based on the map requirements. I don’t imagine he’ll move mountains but he should hopefully make a good account of himself.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


The real reason to use Hubert is his battle twirls and how extra he is and all of his crit quotes which are :discourse:

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
I have a soft spot for Hubert because a) his Bernadetta support is super wholesome and cute and b) on my first playthrough he ended up with like 26 strength despite never touching a physical class and I'm always tempted to throw him into War Master now.

Still one of the lesser mage options, especially for Maddening, but what can you do, eh?

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


theshim posted:

I have a soft spot for Hubert because a) his Bernadetta support is super wholesome and cute and b) on my first playthrough he ended up with like 26 strength despite never touching a physical class and I'm always tempted to throw him into War Master now.

Still one of the lesser mage options, especially for Maddening, but what can you do, eh?

Hubert and Bernie surprised me by becoming one of my favorite couples in the game. I absolutely love their supports.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
Unit Reviews

Dorothea Arnault



HP: 40%
Str: 20%
Lck: 35%
Mag: 40%
Def: 15%
Dex: 45%
Res: 35%
Spd: 40%
Cha: 40%

Strengths: Sword, Reason
Weaknesses: Riding, Flying
Aptitude: Faith: White Magic Avo +20: Grants Avo +20 when using white magic.
Personal Skill: Songstress: Adjacent allies recover up to 10% of max HP at the start of each turn.
More Detail along with Rea's thoughts here: https://rhematic.net/fe3h_lp/updates/dorothea/

Nat's Thoughts

Dorothea is an enigma. She can vary wildly in people's estimation going from one of the best and most valuable units in the game to one of the worst.

The first thing to get out the way is Songstress. To me this is far and away the best personal skill in the game. On her home route, it allows Dorothea to trivalise early maps for the Black Eagles on Maddening through unlimited healing output making her tremendously valuable early. In the midgame it lets the player set up very very easy and lucrative skill grinding traps (which I'll show off deeper into the LP) and in the late game it still remains a relevant bonus. There isn't another personal skill in the game that defines entire strategies the way that this does.

In combat you'd be forgiven for wondering what she has over Hubert, running lower growths in Magic and Speed. But she has a few things going for her. Firstly, she's a girl so she can Dark Flier / Gremory with the best of them. But her growth rates still stop her from comparing favourably to the likes of Lysithea. Her spell list is what keeps her relevant. Thoron is an easily accessible 3 range spell which means she's good on the back line for supporting her allies and deleting her enemies. But the kicker is Meteor, with its massive range and ability to delete any single enemy that has looked at you funny.

Her Faith list also has physic which means she can also retain value in a supporting role if there's nobody in particular you want to blow up.

Her downside is that like almost all mages, she explodes if hit by physical damage. Her speed growth rate, especially on maddening can land her in hot water and make her vulnerable to doubles. And eventually Lysithea's raw power and Constance's Bolting access will just outstrip her entirely from an offensive magic standpoint.

This is where Dancer comes in. Dorothea is in the conversation for the best dancer in the game. There are broadly two schools of thought on dancing in three houses. The first is that your dancer is there to act as a support unit for your team, the second using Dancer to effectively grant a character more avoid and turn them into a dodge tank. Meteor and Physic access, alongside her excellent Charm growth make Dorothea great within the former role. Meteor essentially giving dancer Dorothea a 10 range aura that gives all characters within it +5 hit and physic giving her a role if for some reason she's not able to dance on her turn. I personally prefer this style and so Dorothea is to me, one of the best units in the game. That being said, if you see dancer as more effectively deployed in the latter role, then it's very easy for her to get lost in the shuffle.

The Plan

Commoner->Monk->Warlock->Archer->Pegasus Knight->Dancer.

Very simple here, Warlock, Archer and Pegasus Knight grant Dorothea Hit +20 and Swift Sparrow (Fiendish Blow or Death Blow combined with Darting Blow), so that she has decent offense. Then she moves into Dancer and stays there providing buffs for the rest of the game.

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.
because dancing requires being close to the front line, since you need to be adjacent to the unit you want to dance at, I prefer the dodge tank variant of dancer since they can actually get in the thick of things without too much concern. Plus, Dancer Ferdie is just plain funny to me.

You also neglected to mention that as long as it is not spent, unless I am misremembering, meteor allows Dorothea to count for links as long as she's within meteor range of a target, which is some really nice utility just for standing there. This applies to all the massive range spells though, so she's not the only unit who can do that.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Obligatum VII posted:

because dancing requires being close to the front line, since you need to be adjacent to the unit you want to dance at, I prefer the dodge tank variant of dancer since they can actually get in the thick of things without too much concern. Plus, Dancer Ferdie is just plain funny to me.

You also neglected to mention that as long as it is not spent, unless I am misremembering, meteor allows Dorothea to count for links as long as she's within meteor range of a target, which is some really nice utility just for standing there. This applies to all the massive range spells though, so she's not the only unit who can do that.

I wasn't the most clear!

Natural 20 posted:

Meteor essentially giving dancer Dorothea a 10 range aura that gives all characters within it +5 hit and physic giving her a role if for some reason she's not able to dance on her turn.

This is essentially discussing Meteor generating linked attacks for anyone in range. Every additional unit in a linked attack up to a limit of 3 grants +5 hit, hence the comment about the +5 hit aura that Dorothea has.

I think the Fetters of Dromi (Yuri's relic) should probably have been mentioned in the comments about support dancer, since granting your dancer +1 Mov and Canto means that support dancer finds it a lot easier to stay off the second line. But yes, you're absolutely right that without the DLC tank dancer gets relatively stronger and Ferdinand is absolutely hilarious as one.

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midnight lasagna
Oct 15, 2016

this pit is full of stat boosters
Oh wow, breaking barricades can get you class EXP? I'm sure the tiny increase it gives is barely worth the effort but I wish I'd known that before, I would have committed so much property damage in the name of education.

I knew about Dorothea's healing thing but I don't think I ever used it since I would always bring along Linhardt to try and wring out every last drop of White Magic EXP I could out of him in the early chapters. Probably could have saved money on Vulneraries...

My personal opinion on Dorothea is that I wish they'd given her a higher strength base and like 20% more strength growth. Not because mixed Dorothea would be particularly good or anything, she'd still be a dedicated mage or a dancer if you're doing everything optimally, but because her boons & banes are unusually accomodating for a physical attacker. She's one of the few mages not to have banes in any physical weapon, and the game seems to want you to train her in swords, or at least makes reference to her apparent skill with them. I feel like the Black Eagles have the most "static" students out of all the houses, which is especially annoying considering it's probably the house you'll be playing the most on account of it having two seperate routes. Giving them more options would make them less boring!

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