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Trazz posted:This Thanksgiving, remember to cut all right-wingers out of your life I do not know how people square believing that half the country wants to commit a genocide and also the strongest action to take against them is not visiting for Thanksgiving.
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Nov 1, 2021 20:16
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Push El Burrito posted:If you're not violently attacking your grandma you're not doing enough. "Yeah we're pretty sure Grandma is falling in with a cult that wants her to kill all her liberal neighbors because of the nanobots in the vaccine so ya know, we're staying out of the neighborhood until it blows over. Hopefully the whole thing resolves itself before next year" TulliusCicero posted:
Leaded gas
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Nov 1, 2021 20:29
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Data Graham posted:Partly leaded gas yeah, but I also want to know what the gently caress it is about the South, where freeways are lined with bright blue LED billboards saying Biden is a pedophile who stole the vote and gave Afghanistan away to Soros. In that environment you have to go out of your actual way to NOT be taught from every conceivable angle that the only good and right way to think is the Nazi way. If you're going to have a lot of suffering people in your country it helps for them to be the most indoctrinated and the American South is where we put a lot of our suffering. That then has a compounding effect.
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Nov 1, 2021 20:40
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How are u posted:The poster has previously expressed frustration that the child tax credit doesn't do anything for them and their partner, who have no children. So yes I believe so. Kirios posted:Their hope is is they act enough like a child on the internet they will qualify for the child care tax credit. The fact based and intelligent arguments you come to D&D for.
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Nov 1, 2021 21:07
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Kirios posted:Look I'm sorry but there's been so many bad faith arguments and extremist opinions of the Child Care Tax Credit here, something that has legitimately changed the lives of millions, that it's hard for me to take them seriously. Is it enough? No probably not. Is it right for you to use it to justify your holy crusade to show why America has failed so many people? No of course not. Child care tax credit extremists made me act like that.
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Nov 1, 2021 21:19
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Are we even sure the billboard was in a Republican part of the state? I-4 from Orlando to Tampa it's going to depend.
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Nov 1, 2021 21:41
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The price of advertising on a billboard is proportional to the number of people who will potentially see it. I hope that also helps explain why billboards in the middle of no where are more likely to have insane things on them.
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Nov 1, 2021 21:53
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Ershalim posted:This is very funny. "trust us and we will see to those who need it most get it" isn't true or we'd have universal healthcare. You can argue on if it's not true because it was a lie or because it was a failing but it's not true
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Nov 1, 2021 22:04
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Everyone from the south drives like this but everyone from cspam drives like this
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Nov 1, 2021 22:16
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The Child Tax credit is means tested.
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Nov 1, 2021 22:26
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Lib and let die posted:My hope is that the democrats will do something to discharge the $40,000 worth of medical debt I took on during the pandemic. Professor Beetus posted:I do wonder how expensive people think kids are; like are these parents a bunch of lucky duckies making off with most of that 600 to buy steak and lobster? So I feel like there's a big gap between the criticism given and the argument people keep arguing with.
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Nov 1, 2021 22:38
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Thom12255 posted:I guess I don't get why the child tax credit gets brought up as a negative thing that is competing with the actual good things? No one is this thread disagrees more needs done and that debt should be forgiven and those without kids need help too. Because it's a thread about the US news and government and one of the current big fights is if the people in charge of the government think people need more or not and it turns out that there are Democrats in charge who don't think more should be done and that the current rules need more testing if they're going to be expanded. Not really sure how no one in the thread keeps disagreeing but I'm also not sure why people keep arguing if you all agree that people with medical debt need help. Honestly it really doesn't matter if you agree or not, none of you are making those laws and the people actually making those decisions are in a real big fight over who does and doesn't need help.
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Nov 1, 2021 22:49
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Killer robot posted:Agreed. Why does the need to address medical debt invalidate giving payments to children? It just feels all very "how are we helping refugees while HOMELESS VETERANS" to me. It doesn't. You all read someone saying the current implementation is bad and not enough and reworked that into no one should get the tax credit. You heard "I wish everyone got more" and somehow turned it into "gently caress you I want just mine". I mean look at this wild reading of what was said Kirios posted:Look I'm sorry but there's been so many bad faith arguments and extremist opinions of the Child Care Tax Credit here, something that has legitimately changed the lives of millions, that it's hard for me to take them seriously. Is it enough? No probably not. Is it right for you to use it to justify your holy crusade to show why America has failed so many people? No of course not. So Kirios' response to reading about someone wishing more could be done for their medical debt was too say that yes, the child care tax credit isn't enough to help out everyone who needs it but also you shouldn't use it as an example that America doesn't help out everyone who needs it because they perceived the whole thing as a "bad faith troll" instead of "Hey, I have medical debt and it sucks". Edit: Like, is anyone really going to get up in arms at the idea that the child tax credit helps some people while leaving many others who need it without sufficient help and that the promise of more help is not guaranteed because of both the Republicans and specific Democrats and that the Democrats will do better if they can get that guarantee? Because that's what you're all saying when you stop assuming it's bad faith trolling. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Nov 1, 2021 23:00
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Killer robot posted:If that's truly the argument, it makes the initial claim that people will resent Democrats because of aids "means-tested by your ability to have a child" even all the more incoherent. Again, if you're worried about homeless veterans, don't lead with how refugees are getting helped. On the other hand, if you're just not going to support any proposal that's not full communism now all in one shot, own it straight up and in no uncertain words. Otherwise it just comes off as taking pot shots at actual good things instead of proposal of additional good things, followed by mealy-mouthed backtracking when called out. That's not the initial argument. The initial argument is that people who fall between the gaps of means testing grow resentful if they expect aid and don't get it or feel they're also deserving. That's not very controversial and then the rest of this was stuff you made up about someone's position because of a bunch of assumptions. Hey all, if you feel like you're very good at noticing patterns in behavior from certain groups of people that makes it easy for you to predict or pre-judge what they're going to do or what their true motives are I have some bad news about that "being good at it" part. Just seems like a skill a few people are very proud of.
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Nov 1, 2021 23:30
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Professor Beetus posted:Here's the part that I read to imply that: I don't get where you get the replace though. The full thing is: quote:Yes. I have not, and will continue to not be shy about my feeling that the child tax credit is not enough of a reparative measure for all Americans, simply based on the fact that it is a "child tax credit" and not a "tax credit for everyone." And I find it hard to get the idea that someone saying they think the child tax credit doesn't do enough to help Americans is saying it shouldn't happen and then be replaced in full. Anything that lib and let die could be advocating from that position would be the CTC and more if they think the CTC doesn't deliver enough.
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Nov 1, 2021 23:58
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Discendo Vox posted:I should not have to reverse search the text of a quote to find that you're posting the National Review mediated by yahoo news. And you should think about how it is that you're winding up with that media crossing your screen. Your perspective on the race may not be as clear as you think. The far right dark net yahoo.com, you can verify the reporting in that story from multiple other reports and the quotes are accurate.
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Nov 2, 2021 00:28
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Killer robot posted:^^^^^ Also literally the part of my post that got selectively deleted from the quote! Universal Pre-K and universal college wouldn't be means tested and also don't currently exist in the US.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:22
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Killer robot posted:Universal Pre-K and the CTC are both currently part of the reconciliation bill and yet only one of the two gets called out on "Meh, why this thing that's means-tested based on reproductive status, doesn't help me none." And it's the less focused one that benefits more people. You brought up Pre-K and Pre-K support is currently means tested. If universal pre-K passed it wouldn't be means tested. I'm sorry you're stuck in an argument in your head with someone who doesn't know what means tested is. Edit: also sorry that the person you're arguing with said breeders. Super gross, glad it didn't happen here. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Nov 2, 2021 |
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Nov 2, 2021 01:45
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Killer robot posted:That last part was added in by someone who wasn't following the conversation/reconciliation bill context closely and got confused, as far as I can tell. But it's not parents of young children that get to go to pre-K, it's kids. It's also kids that get the juice boxes and school clothes and extra bedroom or whatever they personally need that wouldn't have been purchased in a childless household, and that's what the CTC is. Both parents and non-parents equally might have crushing medical debts, or remaining college debts or whatever else too. Likewise, if nothing else changes, the kids who benefit from these programs might one day become adults without children who are in need, and yet they'll still have gotten the same benefit from these things. The new generation will get better than the older generation, and that sounds like an unalloyed good. It's also true even if all the additional benefits you've proposed for adults come to pass, presuming you're not planning to take from the child-focused programs to do so. If anyone proposed retroactively paying for my childhood expenses I missed it I mean. Dude instead of trying to understand another person's point you've written all these words to explain that they can't mean what they say and instead must of meant the thing you came up with. I do not know who you think is arguing gently caress them kids because I didn't get anything but they're not in this thread.
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Nov 2, 2021 03:12
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TheScott2K posted:Voting is the thing you do with your brain. Donate with your conscience. Demonstrate with your conscience. Oh dang I bet they're fishing their ballot out right now to fix it. You absolutely did something here for something besides yourself.
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Nov 2, 2021 15:32
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Push El Burrito posted:That's quite literally the American political system though and has been since it was started? Because the person who wins gets 100% of the power you have to go with the person who has the highest likelihood of winning and also agrees the closest to your politics. And McAuliffe at least will rubber stamp a lot of progressive legislation going through VA. I agree it should be different but without a massive upheaval and complete change of the constitution we're stuck with bullshit. Yeah, it's been broken for a long rear end time
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Nov 2, 2021 15:51
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I know when I learned about how the country was founded and the rules or in place I definitely nodded and said "Yes, this is the perfect base for democracy and any issues will be from future complications and not those dog poo poo ideas"
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Nov 2, 2021 16:03
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What the hell are they now if American schools are not racism factories?
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Nov 3, 2021 01:30
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LionArcher posted:But it’s accurate. You're all chicken poo poo idiots with failed relationships and kids you don't love might not be a winning platform
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Nov 3, 2021 18:54
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Kirios posted:You can already see the Dem narrative in DC and on news channels shifting towards "It's the Progressives fault this is happening!" and it's starting to really fill me with anxiety. Buffalo was pretty much cold hard proof the party will move right when feeling threatened instead of compromising with the left and trying to negotiate like adults.
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Nov 3, 2021 19:13
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Ershalim posted:Terminal Autist said, pretty directly, that they believed the average voter doesn't care about things that don't effect them, and then went on to say that as a non-transperson who wasn't diabetic, that they didn't care about those issues. Like, you're free to say that that makes them a lovely person and that you dislike them for saying that, but it's a very accurate way of seeing how most people view the world. If people just did the Right Thing because it was obviously correct and good, none of this would have ever been a problem. Understanding that all of your coalitions will be built with people who think like TA is a very useful thing to learn. Yeah, it comes down to it, are you here to judge people or win their votes? If you're here to win votes you probably shouldn't judge them and should figure out some other way to motivate them. If all that person needs is weed for them to be willing to give you permission to improve their life and the lives of a bunch of other people I'd say that's a pretty good deal.
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Nov 3, 2021 19:24
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He could reschedule it which would help decriminalize but not legalize. It would also blow up the existing market in places where weed is legal. Biden could absolutely start pardoning people and generally signaling that the admin wants this changed. At the least he could pardon people. The number of people in prison and allowed to stay there when something could be done is the truly horrible part.
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Nov 3, 2021 19:46
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Voters think the president personally sets the price of gas. It really doesn't matter what he can/can't do legally when it comes to winning elections.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:38
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A big flaming stink posted:Genuine question for the thread: Why should we care about rule of law if it leads to manifestly unjust outcomes? The answer is going to be the same brain weirdness that made people in the past think leaders were gifts from god but it's not cool to say that anymore so it's going to be a lot of "that's how it works" without acknowledging that literally none of it is set in stone.
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Nov 4, 2021 02:14
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Being less of a goof about it, the rule of law as an ideal is great thing. We also don't really have it in the US. The law is not equal or equitable in the US and never has been. The idea of the rule of law is great but if the law isn't applied equally and you're using rule of law as a reason to stand in the way of improving that than you're really just making excuses.
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Nov 4, 2021 02:32
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Have you ever been outside the United States? Or a developing Country? Yeah, I'm with you and it's absolutely worse in other countries. It's also better in some others. You could say that while we try to follow it we also don't execute it properly, like you said we have some issues but we have it, very poorly, and it's never applied to everyone equally but yeah we have it. I'm glad we can agree too that if you're citing rule of law as a reason to not take actions that make our laws more equitable and fair it's not actually rule of law that's blocking you from taking those actions.
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Nov 4, 2021 02:42
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Sarcastr0 posted:Jesus, dude. You would think we have made no progress since 1776. Maybe take this poo poo to cspam or something? D&D is for having intelligent conversations. If you're just going to accuse everyone of being as blinded by emotion as you than it's not going to go well.
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Nov 4, 2021 03:22
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Darkrenown posted:I was trying to nail down why you thought Trump was bribing McAuliffe, but as it turns out you think basically all donations are bribes so it doesn't really matter. Fair enough, but by that standard basically every politician is bribed so there's not much point getting mad at a specific one. You can of course be mad at the system though. Do you understand the words circumstancial evidence? Because the argument at no point was "all donations are bribes". It was that Trump is an incredibly corrupt person and has a pattern of donating to both parties and than having things work out to his benefit. I don't know if I'd call paying for access a textbook bribe but everyone knows it's a heavy finger on the scales. And why shouldn't you be mad at politicians? They don't need to play this game. And none of it's direct evidence of course but do you really think Trump donates money to politicians with no return? It benefits him in some way and he's always been a sociopathic piece of poo poo. I don't think it really impacted the election outside of the fact that it's one of the many ways McAuliffe came off as an enormous hypocrite and probably drove home the point to some people that if your options are only corruption you might as well pick the ones who are open about it and tell you they'll generally leave you alone if you're the majority. It's dumb but people are dumb.
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Nov 5, 2021 01:11
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Darkrenown posted:Well there's a few things here. Firstly, I'm not sure that VS' position isn't that "basically all donations are bribes" - I did ask them directly and they didn't answer directly, although they did say that paying for access = bribe and that goon donations weren't bribes, so I took that to mean all donations larger than what an average wage earner would give is a bribe, especially if they expect to get some face time out of it. They are welcome to clarify though. Also, the conversation started out with this just being a donation as the Lee Carter tweet said - VS changed to saying bribe a few posts in. So you don't think people would want more politicians who openly reject business as usual? Seems like a stronger platform.
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Nov 5, 2021 03:55
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Mellow Seas posted:It’s annoying to discuss politics with people who won’t even acknowledge the possibility that forgiving student loan debt could cost Democrats more votes than it gets them. If they were to forgive student debt and than fail to show the impact and wide spread benefit it has than they're hopeless on being able to push a message out.
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Nov 5, 2021 15:10
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The Democrats are like a coalition in countries that have a multi party parliamentary system is really dumb.
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Nov 5, 2021 15:21
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How do you tell Joe Schmo he's benefiting from SALT? These are strategy arguments for a party that isn't fighting for SALT while compromising on actual improvements and undercutting how they said they would pay for those improvements.
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Nov 5, 2021 15:33
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Would loan forgiveness be more or less unpopular than giving 10 billion extra to the pentagon for they're budget? A thing that both parties did without much incident.
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Nov 5, 2021 16:34
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This thread would argue that a chicken in every pot was a horrible campaign slogan.
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Nov 5, 2021 18:01
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Mellow Seas agrees with you but is locked in a false prison of the two party system so the assumption is that if you bail on the Dems than you're going Republican or at least allowing them to win. The idea of any new political movement shifting things or any grand sweeping gesture and stone wall getting progressive wins is understandably seen as impossible because well, America is bad at that. I think it's a doomerism of a sort because it forces you into arguing that we don't deserve good things because that's become a fact in your paradigm.
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Nov 5, 2021 18:47
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