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Ringo Star Get posted:Manchin saying that Progressives aren’t compromising enough is good because, well, that’s what Progressives do. We have to violently drag people into this side of the 2000’s and not cater to this bumble-gently caress’s twisted idea of not supporting those that need it so that he can continue to get his yacht money in his poor-rear end state. What are you talking about lol. The progressives have compromised repeatedly and they're almost certainly going to again Neurolimal posted:If the BIF passes alone, BBB will never follow. We knew this the moment moderate democrats tried to decouple them, and Manchin's dustup & whine about them not being decoupled only reinforces that. Yeah that is and always was the whole point of splitting the bills. Any understanding of what's going on is incoherent without acknowledging this
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Nov 1, 2021 19:48
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TulliusCicero posted:"Let's see, one party wants to give me paid leave and healthcare I don't think this is accurate considering they're in power and they're not giving it to you
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Nov 1, 2021 20:34
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Kirios posted:Their hope is is they act enough like a child on the internet they will qualify for the child care tax credit. Boom headshot I agree, poor people with no children should shut the gently caress up and be satisfied families that are better off than them are getting help even if they aren't getting any help themselves
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Nov 1, 2021 21:07
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Kirios posted:Look I'm sorry but there's been so many bad faith arguments and extremist opinions of the Child Care Tax Credit here, something that has legitimately changed the lives of millions, that it's hard for me to take them seriously. Is it enough? No probably not. Is it right for you to use it to justify your holy crusade to show why America has failed so many people? No of course not. Do you have any data to suggest that it has legitimately changed the lives of millions, because I'd be curious to see it
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Nov 1, 2021 21:18
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Tibalt posted:This is the report that a lot of people were talking about last time this conversation came up. As Willa said, this is a survey conducted before the expanded payments even began going out, it isn't data that shows actual poverty reduction, but quote:So, as absolutely no surprise to anyone on this forum, giving people an extra $3k a month lets them save for emergencies, pay for housing and utilities, and provide for their children - without forcing families to jump through hoops or prove they weren't 'wasting' the money. $3k a month? It's $3k a year, up from the $2k a year set by a law passed by Trump and a Republican congress. It's more than that if you have children under 6 and/or you expect to pay <$1400 in income tax and/or you make <$2.5k in income a year, but for many people ITT and elsewhere talking up how transformative it is, it's an extra $167 a month Thom12255 posted:I guess I don't get why the child tax credit gets brought up as a negative thing that is competing with the actual good things? No one is this thread disagrees more needs done and that debt should be forgiven and those without kids need help too. People tend to be critical of the CTC expansion because it gets used as a cudgel against others who are dissatisfied with the lack of relief the Democrats have produced for them. "Oh you think Dems bad huh? You're not getting any help? Why don't you stop being selfish and try being happy for people with kids??" Discendo Vox posted:Because it allows the user to derail the discussion to address an endlessly shifting counterfactual, and abuse any recognition of any good thing in preference to the unreal (and any user who expresses understanding of what is happening). What discussion is being derailed in this 4 page long thread exactly? Southern billboards?
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Nov 1, 2021 23:02
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Discendo Vox posted:I should not have to reverse search the text of a quote to find that you're posting the National Review mediated by yahoo news. And you should think about how it is that you're winding up with that media crossing your screen. Your perspective on the race may not be as clear as you think. Is the paraphrase inaccurate
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Nov 2, 2021 00:12
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Solkanar512 posted:Interesting, I'm seeing a lot of fake leftists on various social media sites punching a guy who actually did poo poo like individually pardoning thousands of people hand because a judge prevented him from doing it in one fell swoop. What exactly makes someone a fake leftist? Are you suggesting they're undercover conservative operatives
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Nov 2, 2021 16:53
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Solkanar512 posted:I just mean the sort of people who shout angry garbage online, make insane demands and poo poo on those who do the hard work of improving things on the ground. Occasionally grifters. Can you give any examples of insane demands made by the fake leftists
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Nov 2, 2021 17:14
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Any amount of SALT cap repeal is lunatic poo poo
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Nov 2, 2021 21:26
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Well the silver lining for Virginia Dems is they won't need to invent any excuses about why they can't repeal Right to Work
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Nov 3, 2021 02:12
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Deteriorata posted:Maybe the left challengers need to figure out how to get more people to vote for them. If they do I hope they let Terry McAuliffe in on the secret
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Nov 3, 2021 03:24
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socialsecurity posted:The fact that "the Dems did nothing" is being used as an argument in a state like VA where they actually did a ton shows how hollow that argument really is. It doesn't matter what the Dems actually do they will just get hated on, it's similar to the usual "the Dems should do this, oh wait they have been? Well I didn't hear about it from my media bubble so they did it wrong' The fact that what the Dems did in a state like VA is being described as "a ton" shows how hilariously low your expectations are
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Nov 3, 2021 05:15
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Curious to see if the Buffalo city council is gonna go through with their plans to neuter the office of mayor now that Brown took out Walton. After all, as I saw repeated here, they actually were doing it in response to Brown and not because Walton won the primary
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Nov 3, 2021 05:32
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Personally if I was really mad about the consequences of the election I would direct it at the guy who lost and the people who helped him lose rather than powerless strangers
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Nov 3, 2021 05:50
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Murgos posted:I feel like I’m being gaslit again. I don’t see how people can look at a constitution ignoring, big lying, COVID denying, insurrection supporting, fascist, bigoted and racist Republican Party and vote in a new R governor. People who aren't already deeply plugged in to the Democrat media apparatus do not care about 1/6 nor should they
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Nov 3, 2021 15:04
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Angry_Ed posted:Pretty sure an attempted fascist coup, no matter how inept, is something that should be a big deal but ok let's normalize that I guess. There's no realistic route for a bunch of real estate agents larping to take over the government. Screaming about it being an attempted coup scans as hyperbole to a normal person, because it is
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Nov 3, 2021 15:25
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Angry_Ed posted:It doesn't matter if it was a "realistic" route considering several members of congress came close to being harmed by those "real estate agents" and there were other deaths besides. Take your Glenn-Greenwald-rear end "oh it's just histrionics" take and piss off. Normal people hate Congress and have no reason to care if some of them were "almost harmed," much less work themselves into an anxiety spiral about what could have happened but didn't. Lol at just saying "other deaths" to try to make it seem more violent though considering the only violent death was a rioter getting blasted by a cop
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Nov 3, 2021 15:48
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A central secret to understanding US elections is that voters as a group are not the actors, they are the acted-upon. If you can't grasp this you just turn into a weird Calvanist-but-for-civics, which is what the eternal dogfuckers who run these campaigns into the ground would prefer
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Nov 3, 2021 16:42
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Eric Cantonese posted:I think I understand your point and agree with it, but just to make sure, what do you mean by "acted-upon?" I mean election results are downstream of layers of powerful machinery involved and voters as a mass group react to stimuli passed to them from upstream
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Nov 3, 2021 17:35
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VitalSigns posted:I get what you're saying, but I think the more salient point is Obama did break the law in spirit ("secret deliberations within the executive branch where we all agreed 'yep lets murder this American citizen' is 'due process'" lol) and in letter (illegal wiretapping, retaliating against whistle-blowers on said illegal surveillance) but because he did it for bad things to benefit bad people liberals don't care about thaaaaaat Piggybacking on this: the Biden administration has been weaponizing public health laws to deport as many immigrants as possible. It had been ruled illegal, but the administration appealed that decision continued to fight for it in appeals and got a judge to overturn the ruling that they had to stop That, to me, is what an administration exercising power looks like. They didn't spend endless time navel-gazing over legal memos, they just moved with alacrity to do something they wanted to do and bent the law to their will, and the justifications are all post hoc
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Nov 3, 2021 22:10
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HonorableTB posted:read the thread before kramering in with a hot take that biden could just legalize weed with an executive order when the last 2 pages have been about why he can't do that because laws are a thing Why did Biden appeal the original ruling against using Title 42 to deport asylum seekers? Was it because they were sure the judge was making a mistake and the sanctity of the law required them to ask a different judge to rule differently?
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Nov 3, 2021 22:33
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HonorableTB posted:Neither of these are legalizing weed. Which is what we've been talking about. Yeah dude, my post was in relation to that, as an example of how the administration looks when it's actually trying to do something legally dubious that it wants to do
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Nov 3, 2021 23:26
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Most of the politicians arrested have openly taken funds from the United States, and the Chamorros in particular have just been funneled CIA money for years including leading up to the poo poo in 2018, so it's not like this was just Ortega jailing everyone who posed a threat -- he jailed the ones supported by a hostile foreign government. I don't know if that's true for 100% of them and that could still be viewed as anti-democratic, I guess, but that's pretty relevant context. It's weird that the liberal zeitgeist post-2016 was all about rooting for the prosecution and imprisonment of Americans who took money from foreign governments but for mysterious reasons, other countries are crossing the line when they do the same. Only some other countries though. Some countries can do it and be fine
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Nov 4, 2021 19:58
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Republicans are a party, Democrats are a guild
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Nov 5, 2021 04:08
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Biden's handling student debt even worse than doing nothing. He's not being forced into starting repayments, that's being done at his discretion
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Nov 5, 2021 14:29
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Thom12255 posted:Don't student payments fund something to do with Obamacare? I assume that's why he's restarting it. That may be an excuse that eventually gets offered up when it becomes clear what a horrible decision it was but that is not the reason
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Nov 5, 2021 14:43
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The idea that Biden and the Dems are wisely skirting an electoral backlash by keeping a huge swathe of the electorate they routinely struggle to activate in federal debt peonage is incredible coping, especially since they're simultaneously rushing to mail an insane amount of money exclusively to blue state millionaires
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Nov 5, 2021 15:04
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Polls aren't evidence there's a meaningful anti-constituency against student loan forgiveness, and this whole take is just working backwards from the conclusion that Biden and the Dems must be avoiding action for good reasons and we just need to figure out what they are
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Nov 5, 2021 15:46
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BougieBitch posted:drat, if only there was a recent election where education was a major issue that we could refer to for concrete data! How did we start this discussion again? Are you trying to claim that Terry McAuliffe getting burned for saying that parents shouldn't have a say in what their kids learn in school proves there would be a meaningful backlash against student loan forgiveness
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Nov 5, 2021 16:02
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morothar posted:Virtually everything in the Infrastructure and BBB bills benefits young people, often most or exclusively. $4T+ in spending that would never have materialized without the Democrats being (barely) in power. Yeah man let me tell you how much me and my millennial squad are looking forward to slamming our sick SALT deductions
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Nov 5, 2021 16:18
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VitalSigns posted:From a surface-level horse race punditry analysis of politics this seems insane, but from a class analysis it makes perfect sense. Education of the masses is dangerous. "We are in danger of producing an educated proletariat. That's dynamite!"
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Nov 5, 2021 16:36
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Much like "ahh but the courts might not agree!!" justification for student loan inaction can be easily compared against things like twisting public health law to deport asylum seekers en masse and then fighting it in court when a judge tells you it's illegal, I feel like the "optics will trigger the crab bucket!! smart politics actually" argument can be easily compared to trying to openly funnel a fuckload of cash to blue state millionaires, and it seems like the excuse-crafters are just as unwilling to explain why their preferred excuse doesn't apply to other things the party is doing
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Nov 5, 2021 17:12
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morothar posted:While you're right in the downstream effects, it's just going to affect a narrow slice of an already narrow slice of the electorate - push the impact from say ~15% to ~20% of the electorate in aggregate. Why are they being dumb about SALT if they're, in your view, so smart about student loans
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Nov 5, 2021 17:50
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Republicans are going to powerbomb Dems through a table over SALT when it goes through. It will be explained as a corrupt payout to rich coastal elitists and this time it's actually gonna be true
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Nov 5, 2021 18:14
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Eric Cantonese posted:Was Mitt going to vote for it either way? Of course not, but that's not the point being made. Posters trying to cope by going "repubs love tax cuts for rich people, they can't argue against this without moving their king into checkmate" are incorrect in assuming this won't be weaponized by Republican politicians. They're the ones who fuckin axed SALT deductions in the first place
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Nov 5, 2021 18:47
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Nah, the Republican party is in favor of SALT and it was a huge controversy that nearly sunk the 2017 Tax bill. The only reason they did it was because reconciliation rules required them to make up the revenue for the 10-year window if they wanted to bring the corporate and top income rates down. Oh yeah good point, really important that Democrats are looking out for Josh Gottheimer
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Nov 5, 2021 19:01
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Go back and ask the Republicans why they didn't. The Byrd reconciliation rules are law, but they could have abolished the filibuster and repealed it. They almost sank the 2017 tax cut bill over it, so I'm not sure why they didn't when it almost killed the one significant piece of legislation they wanted. You really don't know why they didn't kill a rule that didn't actually stop them from doing what they wanted? Do you think maybe it might be because the rule didn't actually stop them?
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Nov 5, 2021 19:17
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I mean this website has a forum with the 1/6 capitol as a background so put two and two together Ahh yeah good point, I see the connection. That subforum is funny and 1/6 was also funny
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Nov 5, 2021 21:34
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How are u posted:Agreed. If you're gonna go off on a tear about how the system needs to be torn down and revolution is the only real solution then it's perfectly reasonable for somebody to ask you how that's going to happen, to ask who is putting their money where their mouth is. Yeah sounds like you're really accomplishing a lot
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Nov 5, 2021 21:50
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are worth about as much as the Vice Presidency of the United States.
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yeah this is why I don't think you can trust any deals that aren't binding, after you have given up your leverage In fact it's the whole point of splitting off the highway bill in the first place! It's the whole reason there's any jockeying at all, and it's insane levels of kabuki for any of the legislators involved pretend otherwise. What good is a loving pinky swear from someone who has spent months engineering a way to gently caress you over that they won't gently caress you over if you go along with their plan lmao
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Nov 6, 2021 02:58
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