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rscott posted:lol @ all the crowing that 1.2 + 1.8 trillion was this transformational amount of spending that was going to help so many people, biggest expansion of the safety net since the Great Society, etc lol if was $1.2 Trillion a year maybe
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Nov 1, 2021 20:15
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TulliusCicero posted:
Propaganda works. Always has.
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Nov 1, 2021 20:48
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Lib and let die posted:Means testing is a hell of a thing to be put through. Every time the democrats means test aid - whether by some arbitrary poverty cap based on 1950's economic data or one's desire or ability to have a child, they leave a struggling person behind. Every time the democrats leave struggling people behind, some nonzero portion of those people swear off the democrats. That has little to nothing to do with whether voters think Dems are a threat to democracy. Yes mean testing sucks and yes Dems suck but white surburbanites aren't talking about "STOP THE STEAL" because some program got means tested somewhere.
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Nov 1, 2021 20:58
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Trazz posted:I think it is actually kinda important to address the fact that a good chunk of the population are literally being brainwashed into becoming virulent racists, and that it stems from leftover animosity from a particular region of the country that once seceded from the Union Racism isn't a regional thing and people didn't start being racist because of propaganda. On the other hand, the original question was why a bunch of the country thinks Democrats are a threat to democracy, clearly referencing the 2020 election, and the answer to that IS social media/cable news echochambers.
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Nov 1, 2021 21:39
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AmiYumi posted:like every CSPAM poster does every time Is it every CSPAM poster? Every time? Or is this lazy subforum clique posting because you can't just reply like a normal person? Also does a CSPAM poster only post there or is because they posted there once or some of the time or what? Don't do this poo poo.
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Nov 1, 2021 21:56
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Jizz Festival posted:Do you think it works on you? Yes of course. Just like advertising, it works on everyone. Even and especially the people who think it doesn't work on them.
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Nov 1, 2021 22:07
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AmiYumi posted:Racism is taught, and echo chambers are propaganda - I don’t think I understand the distinction you’re trying to cleave, here. You're right, you didn't understand. 1. Racism is taught, but it isn't just taught regionally. 2. "stolen elections" is taught via social media and cable news propaganda, and also isn't regional.
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Nov 1, 2021 22:18
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Yinlock posted:They could, but then they wouldn't get fat bribes Bulworth has a lot of problems, but a senator getting assassinated by an insurance company exec for suggesting single-payer isn't one of them. Neurolimal posted:This has been brought up in leftist circles & media, but the most incredible thing is just how little politicians need to be bribed to become stalwart roadblocks of any meaningful progress for trillion dollar industries. When corruption is legal it becomes very cheap, and that's a studied fact.
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Nov 2, 2021 23:44
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TulliusCicero posted:The loving demented motherfucker was Evil but he loving tried. He fought to get his sick gently caress agenda passed. He actually got parts of it codified, even if temporary. He was aggressive as President, and it loving worked This reads like someone who got so mad at Dems they started ingesting rightwing propaganda. Trump was the laziest president in decades. He didn't fight for very much at all. He just made noise. His handlers got him to appoint awful people, which he did because he didn't give a gently caress about anything. They aggressively tried to tear everything down because they didn't care about legal consequences because they are fascists who own the courts. The only thing notable legislation passed during his presidency by the GOP alone was tax cuts which his base loving hated and were bog standards GOP policy from before he ever ran.
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Nov 4, 2021 00:00
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TulliusCicero posted:My dude, how many Executive Orders did Trump sign? In like his first hundred days? They took a shot at Healthcare as soon as they got Congress. Your disappointment in how bad Biden is doesn't make Trump be a fighter or aggressive in his agenda. Biden is indeed very very bad. I'm sure you do hate trump. That doesn't mean you're immune from propaganda any more than I am. Lets do EO's, since you mentioned them. Biden signed more executive orders in his first day in office than Bush, Obama, and Trump combined. He signed more in his first 100 days than any of those 3 did seperately. He reversed more orders in his first 100 days than trump. This is publicly available info. Biden sucks but you're also buying into right wing framing and propaganda. Nobody is immune.
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Nov 4, 2021 01:30
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Killer robot posted:
Yep. And again, Biden sucks, I'm not defending Biden. But if you ever have convinced yourself that one of the laziest men in history, Trump, was a fighter, you should probably unplug for a bit.
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Nov 4, 2021 01:47
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TulliusCicero posted:This... is a fair point. I have had a very rough week personally, so I am probably not seeing things accurately atm Dude you and me both. I'm having a ridic back week at work and watching the incredible own goals from the Dems is going to make me punch a wall. Like....you didn't spend ANY MONEY on the voting rights ballot props, NYS dems? you loving what lil poopendorfer posted:from what I recall, most of those EOs were reverting Trumps EOs. Kinda uninspiring, how about signing some new, good EOs Nope. He had more non-reversal ordres than Trump as well. You can look this stuff up you know. Disclaimer: Again, Biden sucks. This is no way me saying that Biden isn't poo poo.
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Nov 4, 2021 02:16
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Small White Dragon posted:We might have had the infrastructure bill already if it wasn’t for the progressives holding out. LOL what You've been watching too much right wing news.
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Nov 4, 2021 02:55
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I mean definitely keep posting about them. Trolls hate being noticed.
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Nov 4, 2021 04:13
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I could be wrong, but minimizing the economy in favor of "education" seems like a bad midterm strategy. People care more about racism than money. And that's all "education" is. Just "bussing" for the new generation. Having said that, people are going to blame the incumbents for the economy no matter what so they don't really need to run on that. poo poo costing more and having shortages is bad for the party in power and it's unlikely to clear up before 2022 so Democrats are probably hosed even if they DID pass some good laws and get their messaging together. Which they won't.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:36
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InsertPotPun posted:yeah, i'm sure if gas prices were low they'd be talking about how great biden is. just look at the stock market that they talked up meant so much under trump... "How's your 401k?  "
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Nov 9, 2021 00:44
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:How has it been almost 3 days and nobody knows why half a dozen people seemed to have died from heart issues, another several were trampled to death, several dozen were in ICUs, and another 200+ were injured? People figuring out how to dodge the blame and haven't settled on a story that makes somehow nobody responsible for a disaster. Once they figure out a way to blame the dead/injured there will be a reason that nobody in power has a part in. vvvvvvvvvvvv TheDisreputableDog posted:That “group of suburban whites” included a black woman expressing the fear that saying the wrong thing would get her labeled a bigot. I understand why this woman represents a blind spot for leftists, but her fear is something you collectively have to figure out. It’s not a boogeyman spun out of straw. Do you think black people not being a hive-mind is a blind spot for leftists? Because black people don't share a mind. You know that right? Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Nov 9, 2021 |
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Nov 9, 2021 00:54
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Mayor says it could take "weeks or longer" to figure out what happened. All you have to do is interview some workers and people in the crowd and most likely they already know what the deal was. My suspicion is that somehow it's something that Live Nation could be liable for and they're incredibly rich and powerful.
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Nov 9, 2021 01:15
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Majorian posted:Do you think most voters at the time were aware of any of this? I certainly don’t. These changes to the elected Dem coalition were brought about by the party machine, not popular opposition to the New Deal. No, voters turned out to vote for the party that had brought them social security and labor rights. So basically it's less about the policy and more about the propaganda.
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Nov 9, 2021 01:47
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Hawley on-point for No Nut November, when his message will hit the hardest. Brilliant politics.
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Nov 9, 2021 01:57
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Grouchio posted:New Jersey Dem Boss Norcross is spooked by last week's election results and predicts a bloodbath next year (not of course taking into account the Bipartisan bill just passed, or that covid swelled gop turnout) An insurance executive who's a self-described and "reagan Democrat" and his take is leftists are the problem. 
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Nov 9, 2021 02:49
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Solkanar512 posted:No, safety and accident investigations normally take a long time. If a large plane crashes, you're lucky if you know the root cause in a year. Serious multiple car crash or train derailment takes months. It takes a long time to gather evidence and interview people and piece everything together. And no, "most likely what they already know" is not some shortcut to a real answer. Absolutely nothing. I'm not an expert on anything remotely related to this and I hate Live Nation and blame them, based on them being awful. I never said anyone had to agree with me. You miss 100% of the baseless speculations you don't make.
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Nov 9, 2021 03:01
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Willa Rogers posted:From the new Suffolk poll, and following up on econ-chat: "Recovery" is the only remotely positive choice and 3/4 of the people didn't pick it. Whatever you think is the correct choice, that's overwhelmingly people who don't think the economy is going good for them. And if the polling weighs more people who disproportionately don't have money(genx and younger), then there you go.
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Nov 9, 2021 03:15
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Zotix posted:Normally if you are relocating you would get a relo package that tends to cover things like this. No, that's not normal. But now I can see what income you're coming from, and that's informative. Speaking of home ownership, lets check in on Canada. 
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Nov 9, 2021 22:42
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Mellow Seas posted:I expect the final product will be under 1T, 1T over 10 years
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Nov 9, 2021 22:55
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Mellow Seas posted:Yeah, if you consider the narratives that have been emerging during the Biden presidency (and since 2016 in general) Fetterman is practically a dream candidate. He absolutely shouldn't be written off as a potential face of the party because of that incident - especially if the alternative is Kamala or someone else uninspiring (Pete, Beto, Gillibrand, whoever). We'll know a lot more about what kind of future he has after this Senate race. This white man is definitely a dream candidate compared to other white men whoops we forgot to elevate anyone but white men. He's only a little bit racist and we don't yet know about his sexual assaults. Looking good!
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Nov 10, 2021 00:21
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Dammerung posted:I watched the video attached to the clip and even just watching that showed that the tweet's quote is extremely misleading. The full sentence that they cut off to make it look more inflamatory is "America is back at COP, at, on the International stage, as a leader on climate action and drawdown." And this is true, the United States now has a presence on the International stage as at least recognizing the impact of climate change, even if there is more work that needs to be done. Tweeting out misleading things on AOC is almost as big a hobby on the left as it is on the right. Almost nobody who read that post clicked through, they just nodded their head and were like "yes AOC thinks Biden is awesome on climate" Having said that, yeah she's definitely compromised but that was inevitable. Politics sucks and zero politicians will get through a career without compromising their values constantly. She deserves criticism, just like any other politician but hate-clicking on AOC generates traffic so it hardly matters.
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Nov 10, 2021 02:15
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If the kid was black, we all know how this would go and that's all you have to know about this case or the legal system in America. There's two legal systems and this kid is getting the "good" one. The one where rules are followed when it benefits him. Not the one most people get. We all know this.
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Nov 10, 2021 19:47
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I mean I don't know how you get to be an adult without realizing that anyone who talks about how much of a badass they are is a coward and a pushover who's driven by fear and insecurity. If you're actually dangerous you don't talk about it unless it's your job, like a prizefighter.
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Nov 11, 2021 00:45
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Willa Rogers posted:It's a drat shame, because polling shows that "leftist" policies are crazy popular. Absolutely some are. Not so much with the abolishing police and progressive immigration takes.
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Nov 13, 2021 03:20
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Gumball Gumption posted:Have you won a lot of elections by calling them right wing nut jobs? Because it doesn't matter if you like it or not those right wing nut jobs are going to vote, you want them to vote democrat, and it's probably a better strategy to trick them into it than openly insulting them. The Republicans are able to trick them all the time. Republicans aren't tricking them. They know exactly what is up. This is about making sure white people don't hear about things white people did. This is about making sure white supremacy remains the law of the land. They have no idea what CRT is, never did, and don't want to. RoboChrist 9000 posted:I know that. But I mean, loving call their bluff is my point. You're not going to "call their bluff" by asking what this is, you can't reason them out of racism. Everyone involved in this already knows what is going on. It's racists exerting their power to make it clear that white supremacy should not be challenged.
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Nov 17, 2021 00:26
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:He wouldn't have even had to do anything; just keep promising that "I'm working on routing out CRT" and continuing with an agenda that unfucks the state. Yes adopt the framing of white supremacists this is a good way to victory.  The actual move here is to ignore the debate entirely and blow it off every time it's brought up, while doing actual good policy and promoting the actual good policy. What in the gently caress is going on in this thread?
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Nov 17, 2021 00:40
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:That's more or less what I was advocating, but point taken about adopting their framing. Terry would have been far better off letting that issue die on the vine rather than "Streisanding" it with that ad "explaining" his position, but that's water under the bridge Tmac failed because he didn't have anything useful to run on. And yes he should have just straight ignored CRT poo poo, he was never getting those voters. quote:Some of parents' concerns about public schools are valid and should be addressed and fixed. Yes and those people are largely separate from seething mobs of white supremacists who are scared kids are gonna learn that white people are the baddies.
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Nov 17, 2021 00:54
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Gumball Gumption posted:That's tricking them. They've been tricked into being white supremacists. They've been convinced it's in their best interest even when it isn't. That white supremacy helps rich whites steal from poor whites while telling them it's in their best interest since the beginning. The majority of white supremacy's supporters would be better off in a world without it but they've been tricked into believing otherwise. Republicans are reflective of them, not the other way around. They haven't been "tricked" into being white supremacists, they are white supremacists. This is a white supremacist society and they are white people. They know at a subconscious level what white supremacy is, that it's good for them and they don't want to lose it. Someone just found a legal phrase that would trigger the white supremacy that was already there, and was already being stirred up by a perception that their losing some of the racist power and social position they hold, because brown and black people were gaining some small level of power and equality and respect. If you think that white people were tricked by the elites into being white supremacist you don't have a very good understanding of how white supremacy works. F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Agreed, and since neither party seems willing to address parents' actual concerns, we'll probably be stuck with CRT for a long time. The group "lets make things better" will always be less vocal and passionate than the group "THE MINORITIES ARE GONNA REPLACE US AND STEAL YOUR CHILDREN" and it's a problem Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 01:06
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Gumball Gumption posted:Wait, do you think every white person benefits more now than they would in a non-white supremacist society? It's tough to argue hypotheticals but I feel like that's not true. So I still stand by my point that it's a trick and racism and white supremacy is used to divide those who have more in common and connect them to a handful of elites as a dillusion. No. Deal with what I say instead of whatever argument you'd like to be having. quote:And you make it all sound like magic. If your point is that people will always find reasons to hate I agree but if it's specifically racism, no. That's silly. We're talking a set of beliefs that are only a few hundred years old, invented to justify mass enslavement and to give others a reason to feel no pity. Reinforced by outdated "scientific" beliefs to continue to push the idea of superiority and to explain to newer generations why the world, a white supremacist one, existed. I think as the animals we are humans are always going to have class and hierarchy in their social structures but racism is just the current flavor. It's not some deep evil lurking in all white hearts. Reply to my actual posts.
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Nov 17, 2021 02:04
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Gumball Gumption posted:I did. Maybe I don't understand your point and you can have a productive conversation by clarifying instead of insulting. No you didn't, and asking you to reply to my posts instead of saying "wait do you think" is not insulting. I don't think that and didn't say that. Here's what I did type: Jaxyon posted:Republicans are reflective of them, not the other way around. They haven't been "tricked" into being white supremacists, they are white supremacists. And your reply was: Gumball Gumption posted:Wait, do you think every white person benefits more now than they would in a non-white supremacist society? You both misinterpreted what was being said, and then intentionally expanded it to be an absolute("every") that I didn't make. Instead of writing a post about an interpretation, engage with what I have actually written. I don't want an actual disagreement on white supremacy to become a slapfight because you want to rephrase my posts.
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Nov 17, 2021 02:21
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Gumball Gumption posted:I do not know what to tell you that is my earnest interpretation. Since I didn't understand your reply should I have responded rudely instead of with an honest response from what I read? My point I, guess, is that most people who support white supremacy gain very little benefit from it. That's what I mean by a trick. They would benefit more in a world without white supremacy. That's the whole point. I legit just do not understand what you wrote. The white majority in the country is not economically anxious dullards who have been bamboozled by the southern strategy into becoming racists. They were always racists. The politicians are appealing to sentiment that was already there. Does white supremacy hurt whites? Of course it does. It just hurts them less than it does everyone else. Would everybody be better off without it? Yes again, we all would, even whites. They are white supremacisists, they have not been tricked into becoming white supremacists by political elites. The problem is much deeper than that.
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Nov 17, 2021 02:41
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Gumball Gumption posted:I seriously do not know how "race is a made up concept" is controversial here. It's not. Please don't turn "I am having a disagreement on something nuanced with someone" into "actually I will just make up their beliefs" VitalSigns posted:Nah they were bamboozled into becoming racists, there's no racist gene You too. Knock it off.
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Nov 17, 2021 02:56
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Devor posted:I'm not sure what the correct messaging could have or would have been in Virginia, but it makes me really loving nervous that left-leaning people in this thread are being really gung-ho about piling on to the right-wing rhetoric for banning CRT, just because "technically it's not actually CRT being taught right now, got 'em". When your opposition has an awful sentiment, but is expressing it inaptly, if you publicly agree with them, you are boosting the awful sentiment, not the inapt expression that they don't even understand. It's really strong "if we fix class we will have fixed race so lets work on class first" white leftist vibes.
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Nov 17, 2021 03:21
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AmiYumi posted:Jaxyon, help me out here: did I misread your post as “stop excusing and infantilizing White Supremacists”, or is the rest of the thread parsing it correctly (if assholicly)? You've mostly got it, several other people are having trouble understanding it, presumably because they read this thread through several filters of what they think people who aren't them should be saying. VitalSigns posted:Maybe it would help if you explained what you mean by saying they aren't bamboozled into being racist they "just are" racist. How do people "just be" racist what's the mechanism? I think they're taught it by people and institutions that have a vested interest in dividing us up and turning white kids into footsoldiers of capitalism and white supremacy, do you agree and if not could you tell me how you think it happens? White supremacy is cultural and larger than the US electoral political system and older and deeper seated then the GOP digging up an academic term and using it to wage culture war. "CRT panic" is utilizing what is already there, it's not tricking economically anxious whites into becoming racists. You partly understand what's going on before you, bizarrely, decide to remove all agency from these poor, economically anxious hayseeds who just can't help be caught up by the swift-talking city Klansman. White supremacy is indeed a learned behavior, but it's one that's deeply, deeply ingrained in American culture and actively propagated by the whites who believe they benefit from it and who are scared of it ending, even though in real terms they're hurt by it as well. If you go along with their white supremacy by saying CRT is bad when it's not, they're still not going to vote for your policies in favor of brown people because they're not stupid, they're racist. You're not going to bamboozle them out of 400+ years of white supremacy, it's going to take a lot more work than that. Fister Roboto posted:No one is born hating another person because of the color of their skin. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love. I agree, and it's cool that I didn't say that. But it's way easier to argue against so that might be what you heard.
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Nov 17, 2021 08:22
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