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Raenir Salazar posted:Because a healthy democracy requires multiple major parties to properly reflect the popular will. Do you think we have a healthy democracy? Do you think the Republican Party is part of it being healthy? This answer is entirely incoherent except as contrarianism Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 16:03
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We don't technically know that he can cancel the debt, just that he's hiding a memo we would expect him to trumpet if it said literally anything else, but we know he doesn't have to make us start paying it and he's doing it anyway.
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Nov 3, 2021 20:14
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How are u posted:For me its more like "Things are very hosed, but I cannot *not* try. Giving up is worse than trying and failing." Giving up isn't the only other option, this is a false binary. Cast off the shackles of Kang and Kodos
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Nov 4, 2021 18:19
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You can't just have good means and good ends all the time. If forced to choose, I'll take good ends
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Nov 4, 2021 19:32
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Most of the politicians arrested have openly taken funds from the United States, and the Chamorros in particular have just been funneled CIA money for years including leading up to the poo poo in 2018, so it's not like this was just Ortega jailing everyone who posed a threat -- he jailed the ones supported by a hostile foreign government. I don't know if that's true for 100% of them and that could still be viewed as anti-democratic, I guess, but that's pretty relevant context. That's the game. The evil empire deliberately puts ideological enemies into a double bind of using strict methods (bad means) or getting hosed over (bad ends) and then when the empire doesn't win it can shout "the ends don't justify the means! Evil socialism!"
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Nov 4, 2021 19:50
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"We can't do to many good things or the people who hate good things might get mad and vote against us" The shocking twist: they already are!
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Nov 5, 2021 13:22
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It's not being proposed as a strategy, which would also require doing other things too. Each right thing Biden needs to do might not directly benefit 51% and could be argued to be "bad electoral strategy" but that's not why he should do them and that attitude is part of why so many people loving hate the Dems
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Nov 5, 2021 14:45
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It's annoying how people who want to justify inaction on the part of Biden act like student debt isn't part of a broader package of things we say he should do but won't and treat class analysis like it's psychohistory. Meanwhile, SALT deductions.
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Nov 5, 2021 15:16
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We saw how well that approach of offering nothing worked in VA.
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Nov 5, 2021 15:26
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It's not a conspiracy to suggest that someone might be repeating talking points. That's what the talking points are for. But people who don't understand class analysis are always calling everything a conspiracy theory.
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Nov 5, 2021 15:43
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BougieBitch posted:It would be good if forgiveness was part of the current bill, but for some reason they decided there would be a separate education reconciliation bill next year, so it got shunted out. It's because Biden doesn't want to do it. Separating it out lets you make the "doesn't help enough people argument". If they package it with other things, it would be accepted by the people who got other kinds of handouts. But fundamentally Biden does not want to do this good thing. So it gets set up to be triangulated away.
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Nov 5, 2021 16:04
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Mellow Seas posted:Yeah I think this is fair. (It'll be interesting to see how much polling for Dems/Biden rebounds if/when the spending bills are passed.) I obviously think Democrats should spend more, and the shaving down of the bills (although they are still quite large) isn't helping them at all. But the divide between who does and who doesn't benefit from a program like student loan forgiveness is just at a particularly fraught fault line in American politics right now, and I think that's worth taking into account. Which is why people think the Democrats should also do other good things, too. This isn't hard.
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Nov 5, 2021 17:21
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Deteriorata posted:The BBB is Biden's agenda, WTF are you talking about. The progressive caucus are the only ones standing up for it. Yes but it's the part being set up to fail by conservative dems. They will push Bif and if it passes kill BBB instantly
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Nov 5, 2021 23:44
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Going to lol if the progressives go for it. Going to lmao at what is then done to BBB. This is inspired by post below but I'm just remembering that no promises made to Jayapal are enforceable on the Senate. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 02:25
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Probably the people obsessed with cash in hand are so because of the society that requires it to survive that they were born into. Really makes you think.
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Nov 7, 2021 18:43
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Edit- wait that's not the right one
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Nov 8, 2021 21:09
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The reason that post was probed is that it was shadowboxing with a vague sense of what one "side" of the thread thinks. This is kind of funny in light of the post directly responding to each point also being probated. I don't think anyone is arguing that there is a silent majority of leftists, but that there are lots of non-voters who might vote for someone who fought to get them stuff. I agree with that assessment. The poll results from moms4Northkin don't really prove anything either way on this issue, since they made it very clear that they had a particular issue outside of the scope of that argument.
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Nov 9, 2021 17:06
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Lots of members of that caucus aren't actually progressive. In before "yes they are, who are you to gatekeep"
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Nov 10, 2021 16:07
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I'm sure the judge is a chud but things like "you can't say someone is a victim without establishing legally whether they were victimized, which is this intent of this trial" are perfectly ordinary and in other circumstances we'd be outraged if it was allowed.
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Nov 10, 2021 19:27
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Angry_Ed posted:Yeah but the judge/defense had no problem calling the victims arsonists, looters, rioters, etc. TheIncredulousHulk posted:Not to put too fine a point on it but the legal system is fake bullshit and that's key to understanding all this 
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Nov 10, 2021 19:42
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Is this IPAD the same screen the police detective originally viewed it on or verified to be the same? This is bonkers.
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Nov 10, 2021 23:38
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hobbez posted:He was assaulted first. That’s why he has a right to self defense. You push me, I shoot you. That's justice!
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Nov 12, 2021 05:12
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TheDisreputableDog posted:The medic he shot was armed.
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Nov 12, 2021 14:10
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Probably it was explicitly forbidden by the judge, like all other evidence against him.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:19
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FlamingLiberal posted:That’s not in the judge’s purview Who has the authority to stop him?
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Nov 12, 2021 15:31
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FlamingLiberal posted:Judges don’t determine charges So? The judge here is ordering the prosecution not to talk about all kinds of relevant evidence and I don't see how he could be prevented from doing more of that if needed
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Nov 12, 2021 16:23
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Hey, you can gently caress the Hell off with that "especially male" bullshit. Women and non-binary people are just as alienated by modern society as men if not more so. That's not really what the post said. Toxic masculinity is a factor.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:44
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Rosalind posted:I reside in AOC's district. Thanks thread for reminding me to call her office to thank her for doing a decent job in the face of so many calls for her to do terminally online twitter performative junk that would gain nothing and might backfire tremendously all the while facing death threats and insults from the right. Don't forget to ask when she's going to push a vote on Medicare for all like she promised
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Nov 12, 2021 22:34
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Doesn't matter how aggressive Bernie is if they don't have the numbers. The system is set up to ensure that they never do.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:02
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Part of the theoretical fixing of the Democratic party so they can do good things requires finding out which ones of them aren't actually all that interested in doing them. No one's pretending it will be an overnight groundswell to toss the bums out, but forcing votes gets them on the record. Breaking a campaign promise for nothing doesn't get it done.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:13
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Epic High Five posted:Well I know for sure that nothing I send will ever be read but that's because all my reps are absentee chuds and I'm much better served staying off their radar entirely It's a meaningless goal post that only gets brought up as an excuse to dismiss arguments
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Nov 12, 2021 23:24
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idiotsavant posted:Iirc he was such a gigantic rear end in a top hat to the members of his own party that he exploded any previous consensus or working relationships that might have helped get the bill passed. He tied the hostage down to the train tracks and shot them dead before the train even came ‘round the bend. Which is pretty on-brand for internet leftists tbh That's the narrative the OP was talking about! Apparently it's very rude to make centrists vote down actually left laws.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:12
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Do they support passing it, or putting it through regular process?
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Nov 13, 2021 00:48
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What about him forcing the vote made you so angry you constructed this grand narrative about his secret intentions?
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Nov 13, 2021 00:58
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Why were all the local unions upset at Carter for doing that? Did they say? Do you have info?
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Nov 13, 2021 01:24
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Posting about "ought"s, when you want to post about "is"s, is neither shutting nor shouting you down or you still wouldn't be here posting multiple paragraphs about how everyone is silencing you. Not saying this to attack anyone but to say that we should be able to have both of these conversations at the same time without getting mad at each other. I don't think electoralism works. Calling me lazy seems like a dodge to not engage the issue. It's also been repeatedly discussed that there are other things we encourage people doing so it seems like you're not actually bothering to take in other people's posts about the issue. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Nov 13, 2021 |
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Nov 13, 2021 17:16
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It's implicitly a defense of Biden going along with the court order to explain how "gosh there's just nothing else he can do" when there are very obviously all sorts of creative bullshit he could do. We've been through this before. It'll be called Trumpian to do the right thing in a creatively legal way. But the most obvious explanation is that Biden isn't particularly concerned about doing the right thing here.
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Nov 13, 2021 17:31
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socialsecurity posted:using it as an excuse those shut down and shout out people Post some examples of this? It's come up a couple of times and it feels like that "I'm being silenced" cartoon
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Nov 13, 2021 17:55
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socialsecurity posted:This is a perfect example, did I say there wasn't or that people shouldn't be active in other ways or did you go out of your way to pretend I was making a different point then I was in order to stifle discussion. It was clearly responsive. You did the same thing, bolded below, and then cry out for mod intervention ( when srice shifts the topic back. socialsecurity posted:If you don't think it's worth discussing politics because it doesn't matter or whatever why even post here? Srice never said this. Srice posted:There are more ways to engage with politics than ju going to the voting booth every few years to push a button, simple as that. Srice wants to discuss politics ,even though they don't believe in electoralism.
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Nov 13, 2021 18:22
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Main Paineframe posted:Ultimately, the left as a political movement does not have sufficient public support in the US. It's failed to engage and mobilize a broad range of working-class folks nationwide. The question isn't what the left should do on Capitol Hill, and the question isn't what kinds of political strategies the Democratic Party should pursue. The question is why haven't the leftist candidates been marching at the head of a populist political movement with wide public support? Why has the left failed to overcome obstacles that are far smaller than the ones the leftists of a century ago were facing? When leftists start winning, centrists start collaborating with the right to undermine them. Most voters are also ideological capitalists even if they call themselves left, in no small part because of said undermining. There are lots of voters who would support a Bernie type if the rest of the party enthusiastically backed him but vote "strategically" how the party guides them to instead. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Nov 14, 2021 |
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Nov 14, 2021 21:07
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