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I’m trying to stop polluting the “what I did today” thread with my updates so I’m moving to a project thread since I’m in for the long haul. Anyone who isn’t familiar with the bike, a quick recap. I bought a 2001 DRZ400S because I wanted a cheap bike to beat around on. Went in with best of intentions but immediately the “cheap” part went out the window. I replaced all swingarm/linkage bearings, brake lines, and a bunch of other stuff. Some vanity, some safety. Finally got the bike running right and rode it for a grand total of one week before putting it away for the season. On a whim I decided to add a kickstarter and that didn’t go well. I didn’t properly align the kickstart idler gear and it slammed forward into the kickstart stopper bolt and grenaded bits of the engine case throughout my clutch cavity. I decided to treat this as a learning opportunity rather than let it get me down. I ultimately have three options now: - Buy a new engine. If I buy a new engine I learn nothing about engine repair. The prices right now are such that for maybe $1000 more I can buy another used, working DRZ. - Tear down and rebuild what I have now. May be doable? I haven’t really torn it down to examine just how destroyed everything is other than a superficial look. I suppose I can’t really do much more to destroy the engine so if I fail at this I’m back to where I started except I dumped a bunch of money into a rebuild attempt. This is where I’m leaning. - Give up on the DRZ and just wait for another to show up in my price range. I can transplant a bunch of good parts onto the new one and be back to where I started for not much more than the cost of an engine on eBay. Anyway I guess this thread is intended to be me cracking the engine and figuring out how feasible option two is. I’m hoping to ping questions off folks to guide me along the way since I’m very much an amateur in this space. So uh.. Stay tuned?
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Nov 11, 2021 21:25
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 16:28 |
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And here’s the first update. I ended up pulling the engine today.  It was mostly easy but I made some very dumb order-of-operations mistakes that made it more difficult, and might make the task of tearing it down very difficult in hindsight. I unbolted everything but forgot two wires: The one that goes to starter, and another that is bolted to the back of the transmission case. Not sure what the second one is, but it ended up being loose and only caught on the frame (grounding cable maybe?) so it was easy to pull, but I had to balance the engine back on the frame while I fumbled for my wrenches to undo the starter cable. After that it came apart well. The bigger problem was that I forgot to undo the chain sprocket while it still had a chain on and was attached to the wheel. I’m not sure how I’m going to torque that off now with the engine off the bike, and I’ll need it off to tear down and inspect the transmission cavity. I can probably try to do some kind of chain wrench but it’s going to be a pain in the dick. So here’s the first good look of the gore from the outside:  Fun fact: Speed hopes don’t make your engine go faster. It doesn’t look great, and I think this case is probably done for, but I’ll throw it open for discussion. Not sure you can repair a giant crack like that? The good news is that the rest of the case seems OK, no other cracks anywhere I can see on the transmission side. I took a superficial look inside the clutch cavity while the engine was still on the bike and it was pretty gnarly — the bolt that held the kickstart stopper was ejected along with the chunk of magnesium case it was screwed into. The other bad situation is that the clutch basket is immobile. As in I can’t turn it in neutral, AND I can’t pull it off the shaft. I suspect there’s metal shards in the bearings and gears, but right now my bigger problems is that I don’t know how to remove it. It won’t lift out like it did previously, so I’m thinking of using a pulley puller but not sure how fragile the clutch basket is. I’ve been told violence is the answer to a lot of DRZ things and that’s fine, I guess at this point I just want to make sure I’m not making things worse. My goal for this weekend is: - Remove the clutch case cover - See if I can remove the clutch basket - Figure out some way to remove the countershaft sprocket - Remove the transmission case cover Might not get everything done but that’s my goal for now.
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Nov 11, 2021 21:36
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That crack can totally be repaired with a TIG welder, but to do it properly you'd be taking the engine apart regardless, so unless you already have the the tools and skills it's probably cheaper to just get a replacement case or engine from the junkyard. (not to mention it sounds like you're going to have to go through the whole system looking for metal chunks anyway). However, I'm sure some guy on the side of the road in Thailand with an acetylene rig would be able to do a miracle job closing it up enough to get you to Bangkok without disassembling anything.
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Nov 11, 2021 21:56
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lol its a drz. delete the failed kicker mod buy jump pack as the starters on these are hella robust scoop the big bits out of the cases, hose off the rest with your favorite spray. Pull the clutch basket and clean the poo poo out of its needle bearings if you care. drz's don't really run pressurized lubrication anyway. The scavenging pump has a screen and so does the lubricating pump. What they don't catch the main filter will. There's squirters for the transmission and the piston, the head is gonna be the most sensitive part of the bike tolerances wise which is why they eat cam journals first with any lubrication problems. jb-weld the hole. put the engine back into the bike brap till it pops lol its a drz. (the cases are matched, replace as a set. throw a +4mm crank in it while you're in there. tig might work but on something oily, likely not)
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Nov 11, 2021 22:19
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cursedshitbox posted:lol its a drz.  It will probably always weep a bit of oil where the crack goes all the way to the mating surface for the side cover, but gently caress it.
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Nov 11, 2021 22:50
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Yee I don’t need the kickstarter at all. I got it because it was a “huh a fun thing I can do on the bike” which ended up being “huh I destroyed the engine” so joke’s on me. Anyway yeah, I guess I could just patch it up. I’m really concerned that my clutch basket/countershaft is immobile in neutral though, so I’m hoping it’s just a bit of metal caught in the gears and not bearings or whatever. Unless someone has a better idea I’m probably going to try to use a flywheel puller on the clutch basket, though I’m not certain it has a “lip” for the puller to grab onto… some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 11, 2021 22:57
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the basket is tied to the primary reduction gearset which is tied to the crankshaft. the hub is what should freeroll in neutral. Pop the side cover off and follow the gears. With the nut off the clutch hub and basket should just pull right out. IIRC you need to do that anyway for the kicker kit. Post pics of the case' internal status too.
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Nov 11, 2021 23:38
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Sorry I guess I should have been clear — previously the basket was easily removable after the nut came off. Now it’s immobile. I can’t pull it off with strength alone. I suspect metal between the reduction gears etc that’s just preventing upward travel.
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Nov 12, 2021 00:31
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broken gear drive from the kicker may be causing binding. pull the gray side cover off and investigate further. This will also give you exposure to the crank nut so you can rock the gears back and forth to unbind whatever is going on inside. I wouldn't put a puller on the clutch basket. Suzuki cast alloys are fragile.
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Nov 12, 2021 01:27
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I’ll pop the gopro on a clamp and crack the cases this weekend to see what’s inside.
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Nov 12, 2021 01:53
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Late to the party but here to say that is easily and cheaply fixed by a man with a TIG, it's nowhere near any of the really load bearing parts of the case. I would not be fussed about bits of metal being everywhere because it barely ran before dying, the chunks will be quite big and stopped by the pump inlet mesh, there just isn't the opportunity for it to get everywhere throughout the engine.
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Nov 12, 2021 09:20
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So I have to investigate the clutch thing anyway, but even if I wanted to TIG patch it I’d probably need to remove the case either way, no? Unless this is a thing that can be welded in-situ at which point I’m just lugging around a heavy engine. Not sure how much a TIG job costs but I can get a right side case for like $150CDN and an entire salvaged lower end case pair for $300CDN on eBay, maybe less if I want to shop around or wait. I can’t imagine a TIG job would cost much less, not that I”m trying to say one decision is better than the other. Agree on large chunks of metal, I haven’t really seen anything super fine yet, only big things that would probably settle. As long as I catch all the big ones I’m fairly confident everything would settle after a quick oil change but obviously something is wrong with the clutch and I guess that’s where I’m kind of putting all my focus and worry right now.
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Nov 12, 2021 13:58
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Google for local welding shops call them up and ask if they can tig a cracked aluminum motorcycle case and how much it costs. They’ll have questions for you to help figure out if it’s doable and at what cost I am the type of person who, if I know a part of the engine fragged, I’m getting every last molecule of crud out before I reassemble it and run it, so I get it if you want to strip it all the way and wash it out, I would do the same even though I know I probably don’t technically have to
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Nov 12, 2021 14:33
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I think that's the kind of person I am too, but also I'm very cognizant of the fact that I'm in this situation because I tried to do something relatively simple and ended up with a big mess. I'm still trying to be optimistic that I can do a rebuild if I can take it nice and slow and methodical, but I'll feel out all my options right now and if I pull the clutch basket and it looks somewhat OK and the transmission isn't locked up I guess I'll take stock of what I do going forward.
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Nov 12, 2021 14:39
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Yeah look at how bad it seems in there. If it’s just big chunks, that’s probably for the better. Like was mentioned above, it didn’t run long, so it didn’t have long to grind those chunks into fine powder
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Nov 12, 2021 14:50
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Martytoof posted:So I have to investigate the clutch thing anyway, but even if I wanted to TIG patch it I’d probably need to remove the case either way, no? Unless this is a thing that can be welded in-situ at which point I’m just lugging around a heavy engine. Depending on how well you can clean the area around the crack inside and out, you might not even have to take the engine apart. If it's a non load-bearing area you don't care about it being particularly strong, so you can just glob a bunch of metal onto the hole and file it flat. You (or the welder) will just need to ensure that the areas around the crack are wire-brushed or sanded to bare metal, and that all the oil on the surface to be welded is removed. It's also good practice to disconnect any electrical components if you haven't already. Or just JB-Weld it like cursedshitbox says. This is exactly what that product is made for E: also you keep saying magnesium but other people say aluminum. Which one is it? Important for the welder to know Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 19:34
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There is no way on this gay earth those cases are made of magnesium. Side covers sure.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:42
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Slavvy posted:There is no way on this gay earth those cases are made of magnesium. Side covers sure. Its this. The case halves are aluminum like the bore and head. The side covers and valve cover are magnesium.
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Nov 12, 2021 20:43
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Oh yeah duh, aluminum it is.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:02
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So, if I'm seeing this right, the crack is contained thusly: And y'all think that's repairable with welding or JB Weld? I'm not saying that with incredulity, because my metalwork experience is limited and engine case work is nonexistent. But if that were my bike, I would look at the size of that crack, the fact that it goes around bends and to the edge of the case and say "Yep, that's entirely hosed. Time for a new case." I have no idea of the pressures inside there or what kind of stress that area of the engine takes.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:02
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Pressure: near zero, like a couple of psi that is immediately belched out of the breather. Stress: gently caress all. That whole volume is only there to accommodate the kickstart gubbins and is otherwise empty. The structure to the rear of the engine is largely in the huge boss that meshes with the swingarm pivot bolt, stresses are transmitted through the internal walls that house the transmission and main bearings. The cracked area is basically a thin roof that doesn't do any work if you don't have a kick starter and, indeed, it is actually super common for that area to break on a bunch of different bikes; my missus' old husky tc250 for example had a crack in that exact area from normal kickstart usage, my kx250 also has a repaired crack in that area.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:19
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Sorry, I'm definitely not a content creator so this is pretty clumsy with a lot of out of focus, umming and awwing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF5BCMIZAbI There's a gear on the underside of the clutch basket that might be a better place to grip with a puller? e: Also just saw that even when I'm trying to turn the basket the centre shaft isn't moving so the grinding is probably just the basket "rotating" on the shaft. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Nov 13, 2021 |
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Nov 13, 2021 16:58
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Cheap flywheel puller seemed to do the trick. Given the amount of shrapnel that came out from between the gears once the clutch basket came free I suspect that it was just that, crap wedged between.   First inspection seems OK but there's some concerning noises when I spin the input shaft. It feels kind of gritty and there's a definite .. gritty noise when I turn it. Is there an easy way to flush the press fit bearing? I'm presuming it's the bearing on this side but I would need to disassemble the top end to get to the transmission to verify anything on that side, I think. So yeah I dunno, doesn't look like a lot of physical damage but maybe there's some bearing damage? Not really best case scenario of "just glides buttery smooth as before" as I was hoping. e: Uh, to be clear I cleared out all the visible particulate from the photos above before I tried to spin/turn/anything. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 23:00
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It will never spin smooth and free because it's turning all those gears on the inside. You can try pumping a bunch of oil into the bearing via an old man oiling can and see if it gets any smoother. If there's no visible damage to the cage I wouldn't worry about it. I would try turning the input by hand and running through all the gears. It will be harder to shift than when the engine is running but you should be able to access all of them, turn them all several revolutions and if you don't feel any lumps or bumps or unevenness it's probably fine.
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Nov 16, 2021 02:08
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Slavvy posted:It will never spin smooth and free because it's turning all those gears on the inside. You can try pumping a bunch of oil into the bearing via an old man oiling can and see if it gets any smoother. If there's no visible damage to the cage I wouldn't worry about it. Do this. If you have access to an air compressor blow some air through the roller balls while spinning the bearing, that'll blow whatever poo poo thats in the races out. these are pretty fault tolerant if you get the big chunks out.
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Nov 16, 2021 03:27
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I’ll see if I can flush it as described. My only concern now was that it feels different and “grittier” than when I spun it before the metal failure, though that is just memory and memory could play tricks. I called around to two shops and both quoted me 200+ to weld this up based on photos AND they wanted me to strip to just the bare case. Honestly I’m leaning toward just jb-welding it if it flushes well. If I was going to put in $200 to weld this AND have to put in effort to remove the case I would just buy a salvage lower end from ebay. If I do end up jb-welding it, obviously clean the areas from oil meticulously, but should I be banging the holes uniform or what? Right now the aluminum clearly spread a little from the impact. I could hammer the bits down a little flatter?
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Nov 16, 2021 04:11
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cursedshitbox posted:Do this. I was gonna say this but with the caveat of don’t hold the bearing in your and and/or don’t get it going too fast if you do. I burned my finger with a skateboard bearing by getting it spinning too fast with a can of air duster. Fucker sounded like a tiny little turbo spooling up all eeeeeEEEEEEEEEE until it got real hot while I’m just giggling at it like a dumbass.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:15
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I’m definitely not going to be pulling the bearing to flush it. I can air it in-situ but if it gets to the point where I need to pull the bearing I am basically just disassembling the engine anyway, at which point I *will* just spring for a new half-case because I’m already doing a ton of work. Though now I really want to run to my shop to spool up a random bearing with the compressor. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 04:21
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Flush bearings, engine etc JB weld the hole (I would try gentle tapping but it's ally so idk) Ride your bike while keeping an eye out for a second hand engine
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Nov 16, 2021 04:39
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Going to put the brakes on this for a little while. May have sourced a lower mileage running engine from a wreck that was written off due to front end damage. Price is within what I'd want to pay to just replace the whole thing and have a spare engine to part out or something. Plus work is starting to pick up so I'm literally just exhausted at the end of the day and honestly a drop-in would be preferable at this point, but I'll try to get some kind of second opinion from someone before I shell out any money. Anyway, up and down with this thing. Probably no updates for a while, not that this thread was really going to take off if the end result was just me jb-welding a case and calling it a day. I do appreciate all the frank feedback though.
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Nov 18, 2021 14:24
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caveat: I have little to no idea what I’m talking about. If you’re gonna JB the hole, is it worthwhile drilling out the ends of the cracks to relieve stresses and stopping them spreading?
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Nov 18, 2021 19:39
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Alternately I mean I could just glob the JB weld on so thick that it’s just a big tumour covering the whole cracked area.
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Nov 18, 2021 23:53
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Machine a new engine out of a solid billet of jb weld
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Nov 19, 2021 03:05
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 16:28 |
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Machine a new engine out of a solid billet of jb weld And call it 'Royal Enfield'
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Nov 19, 2021 04:00
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