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Ash Crimson posted:It's the same poo poo you hear from terfs; that the inclusion of trans women is intrinsically harmful to cis women; that it's akin to inviting sexual predators in your home In retrospect the whole dialogue of 'x people are inherently sexual predators who will rape your helpless gently caress, 'I'm a man, I can't help it' has literally been the mantra of rapists, philanderers and sexual predators for millennia.
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Nov 19, 2021 15:26
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Ghost Leviathan posted:In retrospect the whole dialogue of 'x people are inherently sexual predators who will rape your helpless biological essentialism that says women are victims and men are predators and no amount of cultural or social conditioning can ever change that and it's determined by your sexual organs at birth and nothing else is extremely antifeminist if you ask me, but what do I know, I'm not a terf
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Nov 19, 2021 15:33
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Again; feminism is when you reduce people to their biology and ignore the social part of them, apparently
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Nov 19, 2021 15:35
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https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1461480597973569542
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Nov 19, 2021 17:26
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tokin opposition posted:Janice Raymond got rejected by a trans woman and wrote both a dissertation and a book to cope lmao i'm hoping i can find an actual public source for this so i can cite it in my final paper this semester
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Nov 19, 2021 18:12
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Nov 19, 2021 18:19
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made it 0:01 in
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Nov 19, 2021 18:26
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i admire your restraint when it comes to self harm
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Nov 19, 2021 18:32
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Arivia posted:i'm hoping i can find an actual public source for this so i can cite it in my final paper this semester if you wanna make it in academia it's probably best not to assert the objectively true observation that much of academia is motivated by the petty personal and the brain damage
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Nov 19, 2021 18:45
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vyelkin posted:If all your contributions to this thread are going to be this terrific, then please stop Nobody cares about your opinion or has any idea why you are a mod
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Nov 19, 2021 19:30
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Payment Day posted:Nobody cares about your opinion or has any idea why you are a mod Didn't read
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Nov 19, 2021 20:42
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treating my trans friends like poo poo due to my respect of their gender identity but also my virulent misogyny
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Nov 19, 2021 21:20
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for a non shitpost itt it should be said that like economics, unless it's marxist, feminism is just hot takes and astrology for... well, people who like astrology I got Federici's Revolution at Point Zero a while ago from a Verso ebook sale and thought it was a pretty excellent collection. Keep in mind I'm very dumb but it make me stop and reconsider what the means of production actually means and what the reproduction of labor, especially in terms of literal reproduction, family care, housework, elder care, etc etc, entails. I'd love further marxist feminist recs if you've got em.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:25
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:for a non shitpost itt it should be said that like economics, unless it's marxist, feminism is just hot takes and astrology for... well, people who like astrology Try Nancy Fraser's Justice Interruptus next, it's about finding a way to balance feminist "identity politics" and the class-based criticisms of marxism. Just read it for class this week and it was great.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:35
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third wave feminism was cool because it was mostly talking about what second wave feminism got wrong but fourth wave feminism sucks balls because its just the worst parts of both
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Nov 19, 2021 21:39
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Arivia posted:Try Nancy Fraser's Justice Interruptus next, it's about finding a way to balance feminist "identity politics" and the class-based criticisms of marxism. Just read it for class this week and it was great. just found a pdf of this off google so I'll be throwing this into my queue. thank you!
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Nov 19, 2021 21:45
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Happy International Men's Day
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Nov 19, 2021 21:53
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Some Guy TT posted:third wave feminism was cool because it was mostly talking about what second wave feminism got wrong but fourth wave feminism sucks balls because its just the worst parts of both I dread to ask what fourth wave feminism even is. Guessing it's the worst parts of tumblr feminism breaking containment, and not even getting into the terfs Begun, the terf wars have
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Nov 20, 2021 09:23
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fourth wave sounds very reactionary edit: it appears to be feminism with internet added on
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Nov 20, 2021 09:29
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I dread to ask what fourth wave feminism even is. Guessing it's the worst parts of tumblr feminism breaking containment, and not even getting into the terfs First wave: let us vote* Second wave: let us have jobs* Third wave: let us jerk off Fourth wave: [Tumblr stuff] It's literally Tumblr feminism, there's debate in gender studies circles that it really a distinct wave from 3rd, but the fight really has been lost. The worst part of that kind of thinking is that it starts from a decent grounding in third wave feminisms and then it got telephone gamed into "is it racist to have a black headmate" *White well off cis women only
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Nov 20, 2021 09:50
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I do remember that a shitload of people stopped using 'intersectionality' and 'privilege' the moment it started breaking out that intersectionality includes class
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Nov 20, 2021 09:52
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I do remember that a shitload of people stopped using 'intersectionality' and 'privilege' the moment it started breaking out that intersectionality includes class So I was involved a lot with student government, which fellates those ideas because it lets people well off enough to go to a big fancy school feel oppressed and woke. It was great. I ran the main queer org, got to do organizing, annoyed the hell out of the registar and president pushing for new gender neutral bathrooms and preferred names on class lists. Went well with my gender studies degree. (lol) Shortly before I dropped out, started getting more into socialism and leftism. Started to get tired of it all; wasn't real activism, just making life better for the kind of people who go to college. Our events were boring, tame, more about giving a cishet audience permission to appropriate and neuter of all political value drag culture (I have Views). And so I floated the idea of a low income student org, same board as the gay student org, black org, disability org. Got shot down immediately by the student gov president. The son of a millionaire. Think he works for the state department now, idk. It was too vague, hard to define who was in the group and who wasn't. He hadn't noticed any need for it. And, of course there wasn't any budget for it. Then he left the meeting, can't say for sure if he took the hand me down Ferrari he drove that day, but I choose to believe he did. Dude loved to tell me to take an intersectional approach. In my heart I became a cspam poster that day.
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Nov 20, 2021 10:20
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I do remember that a shitload of people stopped using 'intersectionality' and 'privilege' the moment it started breaking out that intersectionality includes class *record scratch* so, this was the moment I realized something,
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Nov 20, 2021 11:04
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Wish terfs could channel their strange obsession and hatred for trans people into something positive, like shutting the gently caress up
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Nov 20, 2021 11:07
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Ash Crimson posted:Wish terfs could channel their strange obsession and hatred for trans people into something positive, like shutting the gently caress up they could do an Extinction Rebellion thing instead where they all go to jail
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Nov 20, 2021 11:21
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Ash Crimson posted:Wish terfs could channel their strange obsession and hatred for trans people into something positive, like shutting the gently caress up if they could shut up they wouldn't be TERFs
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Nov 20, 2021 14:26
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tokin opposition posted:First wave: let us vote* In my untrained eye, fourth wave is just repackaged 2nd wave + hashtags. Largely driven by 2nd wavers like Hillary and people in that orbit. It mostly concerns itself with shattering the glass ceiling for the upper class women.
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Nov 20, 2021 14:50
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Pingui posted:In my untrained eye, fourth wave is just repackaged 2nd wave + hashtags. Largely driven by 2nd wavers like Hillary and people in that orbit. It mostly concerns itself with shattering the glass ceiling for the upper class women. I can tell that your eye is untrained, yes
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Nov 20, 2021 15:19
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Arivia posted:I can tell that your eye is untrained, yes Yes, that is what I said 
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Nov 20, 2021 15:34
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2nd wave had a lot of biological essentialism in it, like thinking emancipated women would do "women's work" but just wanting care work or education or nursing to be valued more highly, equivalent to fields of work coded as masculine. That biological essentialism is why a lot of 2nd-wavers have become terfs in their old age, because they think being a woman is something innate rather than something culturally constructed, and some of their beliefs reinforce rather than deconstruct patriarchal cultural constructs. the third wave was all about tearing down those cultural constructs and expanding feminism in pretty much every direction: away from white cis middle-class women and towards intersectionality along lines of race, class, gender, sex, based on deconstructing the cultural constructs that try to limit what men and women can and can't do or be. I'm not really sure what 4th wave is, but it's definitely not just repackaged 2nd wave. It's more like 3rd wave on steroids fueled by social media algorithms.
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Nov 20, 2021 15:44
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:for a non shitpost itt it should be said that like economics, unless it's marxist, feminism is just hot takes and astrology for... well, people who like astrology i like The Second Sex as a filthy commie because it's by someone stunningly smart and you can see, by examination in detail, how much of the 'essential' feminine arrises out of conditions and causes psychological changes. which is revelant beyond being the means of social reproduction, which is only part of it ymmv if not a philosophy nerd but it's good
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Nov 20, 2021 15:51
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vyelkin posted:2nd wave had a lot of biological essentialism in it, like thinking emancipated women would do "women's work" but just wanting care work or education or nursing to be valued more highly, equivalent to fields of work coded as masculine. That biological essentialism is why a lot of 2nd-wavers have become terfs in their old age, because they think being a woman is something innate rather than something culturally constructed, and some of their beliefs reinforce rather than deconstruct patriarchal cultural constructs. the third wave was all about tearing down those cultural constructs and expanding feminism in pretty much every direction: away from white cis middle-class women and towards intersectionality along lines of race, class, gender, sex, based on deconstructing the cultural constructs that try to limit what men and women can and can't do or be. It is probably the lack of definition that gets me there and that these things seem largely defined in American terms. From an outside US perspective fourth wave appears heavily enmeshed in Dems vs Reps, with RBG, Hillary (which I understand to be 2nd wavers?) etc. as the ideal. Or maybe that isn't fourth wave at all?
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Nov 20, 2021 15:56
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Pingui posted:It is probably the lack of definition that gets me there and that these things seem largely defined in American terms. From an outside US perspective fourth wave appears heavily enmeshed in Dems vs Reps, with RBG, Hillary (which I understand to be 2nd wavers?) etc. as the ideal. Or maybe that isn't fourth wave at all? Yeah I would call RBG and Hillary 2nd wavers who happen to still be prominent in the 21st-century US because the US is a gerontocracy. If fourth-wave turns out to be a new thing rather than an iteration of third-wave, my understanding is that it's still far too new to be reflected in the upper ranks of institutional power.
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Nov 20, 2021 16:31
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vyelkin posted:Yeah I would call RBG and Hillary 2nd wavers who happen to still be prominent in the 21st-century US because the US is a gerontocracy. If fourth-wave turns out to be a new thing rather than an iteration of third-wave, my understanding is that it's still far too new to be reflected in the upper ranks of institutional power. Kamala’s age and race make her maybe the beneficiary of 3rd wave feminism. AOC for sure.
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Nov 20, 2021 16:37
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I'm not convinced a fourth wave feminism exists or can exist until different material conditions obtain. I think the third wave sentiment is the hegemonic viewpoint of a liberalism that has totally captured the media, politics, and academia of any space concerned with feminism. I mean, even ostensibly leftist spaces and organizations only ever deal with feminism on liberal, third wave feminism's terms that'll take a sociopolitical revolution to change. Fourth wave will be either legitimate Marxist feminism or some sort of bizarro fascist-feminist syncretism that bubbles up out of qanon moms. That said I think that if I'm wrong and a fourth wave does somehow arise while we still have people going to universities and making netflix shows it's going to be that incredibly weird sex-negative thing you see from a lot of the young online ultraleftist crowd. I think that's the only space they have remaining to move in to.
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Nov 20, 2021 17:10
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Fourth wave feminism is when u get a fourth meal at taco bell but don't share your tacos with privileged people
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Nov 20, 2021 17:45
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https://twitter.com/iamlexstylz/status/1462088645540823043
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Nov 21, 2021 04:54
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why did we need an alternative version of incel thats also a racial epithet whose idea was this
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Nov 21, 2021 05:33
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Some Guy TT posted:why did we need an alternative version of incel thats also a racial epithet whose idea was this 
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Nov 21, 2021 07:36
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:some sort of bizarro fascist-feminist syncretism that bubbles up out of qanon moms. this isn't a bad description of terfs/the girlboss cult on this side of the atlantic
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Nov 21, 2021 07:48
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