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Judakel posted:feminism really went sideways the last 10 years. hosed up It's more that people actually started realising the contradictions that had been festering for a long while Kinda feels like for a long while there was a strain of 'girls rule, boys drool' feminism that was dismissed as harmless and funny by people who later wondered where all these frothing hateful terfs came from.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:23
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Xaris posted:the scariest phrase in the english language is 'male feminist' Male feminist TERFs are even funnier because it's even more obvious projection Also the author of that World of Darkness game Beast was a woke rapist and made a game about being a woke rapist and murderer where the 'heroes' who want to kill you for killing and raping are the bad guys
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Nov 19, 2021 06:03
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Ash Crimson posted:It's the same poo poo you hear from terfs; that the inclusion of trans women is intrinsically harmful to cis women; that it's akin to inviting sexual predators in your home In retrospect the whole dialogue of 'x people are inherently sexual predators who will rape your helpless gently caress, 'I'm a man, I can't help it' has literally been the mantra of rapists, philanderers and sexual predators for millennia.
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Nov 19, 2021 15:26
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Some Guy TT posted:third wave feminism was cool because it was mostly talking about what second wave feminism got wrong but fourth wave feminism sucks balls because its just the worst parts of both I dread to ask what fourth wave feminism even is. Guessing it's the worst parts of tumblr feminism breaking containment, and not even getting into the terfs Begun, the terf wars have
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Nov 20, 2021 09:23
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I do remember that a shitload of people stopped using 'intersectionality' and 'privilege' the moment it started breaking out that intersectionality includes class
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Nov 20, 2021 09:52
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Ash Crimson posted:God it's almost as if believing is biological determinism; that biology, genetics and genitals trumps every other consideration is deeply regressive when applied to social issues This is pretty much what they get at yeah Incidentally it's pretty much 100% white people
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Nov 23, 2021 15:58
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It's pretty much exactly along the lines of 'There wouldn't be so much racism if you'd stop talking about race!' They are extremely clumsily trying to shut down avenues for which they are rightly called out on their bigotry.
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Nov 26, 2021 14:53
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Seems to be a theme with terfs of rapidly making up their own pseudoscience and believing it be true at a rate very similar to crystal woo kooks and other alternative medicine types. Has anyone tried to push the horse paste as the cure for being trans
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Nov 27, 2021 12:00
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Peanut President posted:terf talking therapy is just the cop from freakzoid saying "cut it out" hey, at least that cop could get along with freakazoid. and it even worked on the warners.
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Nov 27, 2021 15:41
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There seems to be a tend with progressive movements that once they get successful enough, the opposition realises they can't be open about it anymore, so they just adopt the same language and trappings and clumsily turn it back against them; see also 'Liberals are the REAL racists!' and the general idea that problems weren't real until those troublemakers insisted on talking about them. This unfortunately can be an effective tactic due to  .
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Nov 30, 2021 08:38
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I feel this post explains a LOT.Perestroika posted:Oh yeah, that's absolutely a thing. I remember reading an account from a person who used to be with terfs (I can't recall their name for the life of me, but I think they actually ended up transitioning after getting out), and they detailed how there was a very concerted effort to bring them into that particular movement and focus them on terfing. They'd be invited by terfs to conventions and meetups to give talks about gay rights and feminism, but over time there was a rather unsubtle push to refocus their talks away from that and almost exclusively onto the supposed trans menace. They noted how there was very much a feeling of being handled, being passed back and forth between various contact persons and being pushed go to certain events to be essentially shown off to other would-be terfs.
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Dec 13, 2021 11:46
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Their whole deal is about intrinsic internal aspects, not the outside, as far as I can tell? That being "the male drive to dominate and abuse", which men can suppress long enough to get women in vulnerable positions. Trans women are basically terminators in terf ideology. They are hardcore gender essentialists, yeah.
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Dec 14, 2021 07:44
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'Men can't help being predators' is literally an excuse used by rapists for a long, long time. Their whole worldview taken at face value is incredibly depressing because it's an insistence that things cannot be made better.sleeptalker posted:Technically, "gender is biologically innate and is a good/evil binary" is a position that was considered by some feminists, and it was used to radically envision an idealized matriarchal society. Does seem like there's been a strain of 'girls rule, boys drool' feminism that's been tolerated or dismissed as at worst cute and quirky, letting the innate toxicity fester until it finds an outlet.
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Dec 15, 2021 07:15
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Some Guy TT posted:could it be that the patriarchy is based on hierarchical power structures rather than physical biology and that genitalia is irrelevant to the forces that oppress women? A pretty common theme is that people are trained to ignore and accept existing power structures and instead blame the resulting oppression on ultimately arbitrary factors Especially given how terfs are p universally well-off white people
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Dec 15, 2021 09:26
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Communist Thoughts posted:Iirc she got cancelled for being casually lovely about NBs I think, then doubled down doing a video about it then quit then came back with at least one more video about getting cancelled. Wait a second, how is this not bimbofication
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Jul 12, 2022 05:03
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Southpaugh posted:Linehan is a successful-in-the-90s irish comedy writer. He lives in britain. He and the wife made a pro-choice ad in the run up to the Repeal the 8th (amendment of Bunracht na hEireann, the irish constitution) campaign, which was successful and made abortion legal in Ireland. They got a lot of pats on the back from the pro-choice crowd. So he was a loud feminist voice for a time and well regarded. Between then and now he became extremely online and extremely concerned about trans people, this preceded and presumably instigated the divorce. He's had some kind of mid life crisis or just went off the beam over all this for some reason. Yeah, the divorce came after he went insanely TERF and seems to have been because it's literally all he would talk about even to his wife and kids.
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Jul 13, 2022 07:41
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One More Fat Nerd posted:Everyone reading this already knows, probably, but he's not just divorced from his wife, the trans obsession basically annihilated all his relationships with family and friends. P. Sure he's actively avoided by other terves at this point. Oh yeah. Doesn't help that I imagine he has the stink of 'this could happen to you' the terves think deep down looking at him.
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Jul 13, 2022 14:16
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A lot makes sense when you realise white feminism is just rich white women wanting their turn to own slaves
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Jul 13, 2022 18:44
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One More Fat Nerd posted:I don't think we have the whole "having a family is cheating on your boss" mindset that the Japanese cultivated (and have been trying to stamp out for like a decade+). Our work culture isn't healthy, or family friendly, but Wal-mart doesn't expect 70 hours a week AND 8 hours of weekend bar hopping with your coworkers. 'Trying' seems like a strong word, there.
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Aug 22, 2022 04:31
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More the problem is every aspect of culture and education by default teaches men to be entitled abusive hateful insecure monsters who have no idea how to take care of themselves, and has been for decades at this point. Actually functioning men need to actively seek out alternatives or stumble into them if they're lucky.
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Aug 22, 2022 18:23
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StashAugustine posted:I've read Caliban and it's cool and interesting but IIRC more about the early modern and the crushing of the limited independence women had in medieval agrarianism. In the question I had I'm more interested in early industrial wage labor- how involved women were in that and how it's remembered differently. I'm gonna put some money on "stay at home mothers were a brief petty bourg/labor aristocrat affectation" but I don't have anything to back that up Pretty much everything about the nuclear family is cosplaying petty aristocrats/the middle class so that probably tracks.
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Aug 23, 2022 06:33
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Brain Candy posted:we got here exactly because capital was fine with detonating the patriarchy as it was if more surplus value could be squeezed out. talking about things in terms of personal virtue is almost always a shorthand for accepting capitalist realism There's a reason rainbow capitalism always specifically latches onto the 'aspirational' brand of feminism, anti-racism etc; see also how a lot of liberal feminism comes down to 'now it's OUR turn to own slaves!' It hits a dead end pretty quick with lots of problems like incels it just doesn't have answers to except to use them as scapegoats because its refusal to openly acknowledge class-based power dynamics mean the only option dealing with men with actual power is immediate retreat. There's definitely a vein of immature 'girls rule boys drool' feminism that it shouldn't be surprising has a pipeline to festering TERFism, especially with how much the ol' tumblr spaces were infested with abusers, predators, enablers and grifters.
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Aug 24, 2022 07:08
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I mean, reliable access to therapy and education and a feeling that society actually has a place for you can also help. Like incels crystallised pretty much the same time as the alt-right in the general post-recession hangover of a generation of young white men who'd been promised the world on a silver platter, implicitly and often explicitly, suddenly realised they'd been sold a bad bill of goods, and looking for explanations in mostly the wrong places.
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Aug 24, 2022 09:35
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Some Guy TT posted:it rules that liberals think us tankies are the doomers when the philosophical construct they live their lives around assumes that most people are irredeemable shitheads You talk to a liberal long enough in the right way and they'll basically admit that they believe that it's completely impossible to solve any of the problems they complain the most about, and get real mad when you point it out Or come down to basically refusing to accept any solution that doesn't involve totally owning and punishing all of the people they don't like. Probably don't want to know what happens when you point out this makes them indistinguishable from a fascist. Ghost Leviathan has issued a correction as of 09:48 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 06:02
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Does actually genuinely seem to be an issue that women can be and are subject to the same pressures that produce socially maladjusted, immature and isolated manchildren, and just as prone to malicious and abusive behaviour, entitlement and enthusiastic embrace of whatever bigotry they think they can get away with.
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Aug 29, 2022 11:36
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Communist Thoughts posted:we're on it right now cut off one gender and two more take its place
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Sep 2, 2022 14:42
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War and Pieces posted:The 50's housewife was already on multiple magic pills Some people have tracked the growth of feminist movements to when you couldn't get over the counter amphetamines anymore also lol of course it only acknowledges the existence of middle class white housewives
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Sep 4, 2022 07:16
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Some Guy TT posted:you jest but chastity for men used to be a major first wave feminist ideal they thought such social pressures were the best guard against rape and sexual assault Something to be said for how men were and still are expected to be aggressively hypersexual by default and that being a key part of the terrible stew of toxic masculinity.
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Sep 5, 2022 05:40
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War and Pieces posted:you're just proving their point by posting ogres He ain't the sharpest tool in the shed
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Feb 3, 2023 18:06
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War and Pieces posted:call me nostalgic but I think we could use some good old fashioned man-hating harpies They're called terfs now
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Mar 14, 2023 03:48
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This is what the Vampire's Castle does to ya. When it looks like change might require imagination and effort, give up and run away crying.
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Mar 17, 2023 02:47
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She pretty much figures out from first principles that the TERF argument boils down to TERFs viewing literally everything through their own personal experiences being the only valid ones. And a Pratchett quote comes to mind; 'As soon as you treat people as things to be measured, they don't measure up.' There's a reason the transvestigators all immediately go off the deep end. There's no way they can't.
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Mar 30, 2023 06:43
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Idpol is about an atomised and incoherent understanding of oppression with material conditions and class surgically removed, which ends up basically an excuse to attack almost anyone you want by framing them as part of the oppressor class. Applied to feminism you get 'the patriarchy' consisting of literally all men and thus all men are valid targets you can beat up for clout and to feel good, and never be the bad guy. And obviously you go after the weakest possible targets under the category of 'men' because the ones with actual power and money are scary and might fight back. Of course even that kinda went out of fashion since 2016 ish for various reasons but it's still the mindset at its core, mostly upper class wealthy women aren't going to let go of the framework where they get to be the brave oppressed resistance who can do no wrong, and that's the TERF mindset.
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Aug 22, 2023 07:54
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Basically corporate style 'lean in' white rich women feminism IS feminism plus identity politics, the whole point is that idpol does the exact opposite of what it advertises
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Aug 24, 2023 14:08
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It puts everyone at maximum levels of panic and thus open to what's presented as the only possible solution, subscribing to my Patreon. Also justifies the visible failures of white feminism.
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Aug 25, 2023 01:22
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tokin opposition posted:Out of curiosity, what not-white feminism do you think does so much better? Tossing on more identity markers makes the patreon grifting more and more lucrative. You'd think so but it tends to be a liability thanks to the unexamined prejudices of white feminists and joss whedon male feminists, and their ideological descendants in TERFs, ideally you want disconnected vague identity markers rather than ones actually indelibly tied to your identity, that allow you to cry persecution with the minimum possibility of actual persecution. Black feminists find it a lot easier to understand that being born male does not mean life on easy mode. The overarching problem is again the complete unwillingness and inability to acknowledge material problems and the resulting cartoonish idea of patriarchy that men do not come in different classes or have different problems, that even entertaining the idea that men CAN have problems that are not personal failings is considered irrevocable taint by the Enemy. Again you can probably see how this leads in to TERFism where when you believe in that essentialism of victims and victimisers, anything blurring the lines can only be seen as a form of threat. Even 'toxic masculinity' got abused into uselessness and stripped of its proper meaning of sexist behaviour that harms men, often self-destructively. Basically there was a long period of 'girls rule, boys drool' feminism that was considered cute and harmless and only misogynists could possibly have a problem with it, and then they wonder where all these frothing lunatics about bathrooms came from. There's a also a reason 'Intersectionality' suddenly stopped being used by a lot of people when leftists started saying 'Intersectionality includes class'. e: Also I think kinda goes with a lot of things people on the ground realised about how the last like 30 years have had very little tangible progress despite the successes idpol claimed, mostly revolving entirely around media representation and a handful of designated token minorities; a black president didn't do poo poo for black people and all those strong female characters didn't translate to women actually getting more equal pay or benefits, for example. Hell, losing Roe and affirmative action seem pretty tangible signs that poo poo is actively regressing thanks to unchecked reactionaries and liberal failure. (thanks, RBG!) The bare-minimum facade of the End of History is failing. Ghost Leviathan has issued a correction as of 07:53 on Aug 25, 2023 |
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Aug 25, 2023 07:35
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I'm not sure how much is confirmation bias but also seems like modern feminism from the pop to the academic is also wildly obsessed specifically with incels and the 'manosphere' at the expense of all else, as some mix of scapegoat and schadenfreude, with no apparent interest in anything about men outside of that. (Which is probably one to talk coming from someone posting on a dead gay forum that also treats them as entertainment but at least we're honest about it) It's ultimately just the same poo poo from like a decade ago at this point where it's two sets of nominally opposed grifters in a symbiotic relationship stoking outrage and feeding on the attention they get from each other. Almost seems like they end up a mirror image, men who proudly don't give a poo poo about women's problems and women who proudly don't give a poo poo about men's problems, and both believe this makes them morally and intellectually superior.
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Aug 31, 2023 05:51
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White feminists don't realise feminism without class consciousness is unrecognisable when you've seen feminism that does
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Oct 5, 2023 01:08
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loquacius posted:I read the article again. oh, the author is divorced? you don't say It's all extremely divorced rich white people destroying the world
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Oct 27, 2023 06:35
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Divorced people and people over 60 should not be allowed to write, run for office, or vote. Though understating the effect of loveless marriages, which are unfortunately not only a boomer thing
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Oct 27, 2023 17:44
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