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When your opponent stacks the box when you're ripping them up in the running game, it doesn't pull LBs from coverage and open the passing game. Alsowhile Play Action isn't important. It's called Play Action because boi you best be playing if you think it matters. Furthermost,
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Nov 24, 2021 18:20
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The math says running backs don't matter and who knows football better then fellow sleep deprived nerds who never leave their parents basement?
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Nov 24, 2021 18:24
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sweet thursday posted:Thank God you're just a mod for the book barn. Play Action is successful regardless of how effective your running game is. I'm not sure why you think this is such a hot take, there have been plenty of articles written about establishing the run to pass not being a real thing
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Nov 24, 2021 18:26
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the pass sets up the run but you can't run from your passed
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Nov 24, 2021 18:30
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Amazing running backs haven't been relevant since the extinction of the fullback. Defenses are too fast and athletic for running backs to be lockdown world beaters in the nfl. Ironically the best backs this day in age are the big bruisers that batter the poo poo out of defenses because you can't outrun defenses anymore.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:35
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Not going to stand for Frank Gore erasure. Tell Meredith to clear my afternoon, I'm about to get reckless
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Nov 24, 2021 18:37
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Nodoze posted:Play Action is successful regardless of how effective your running game is. Defenses have plays packages for run pass distance and just about any given situation. Making your opponent respect the run is about forcing the opponent to call their run packages their run blitzs etc. When you can force your opponent to play a certain way its much easier to do whatever it is you want to do because you can more easily predict what's going to happen on the other side. This is a very real thing and it's a very powerful thing and it has very little to do with playaction
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Nov 24, 2021 18:38
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sweet thursday posted:
Lmao i do not know why this hit my funny bone so hard but it did
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Nov 24, 2021 18:44
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Eye test is more important than so-called "advanced analytics" change my mind
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Nov 24, 2021 18:46
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Hot Diggity! posted:Eye test is more important than so-called "advanced analytics" change my mind Counterpoint: PFF manages to be worse then everything short of QBR.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:49
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Kalli posted:Counterpoint: PFF manages to be worse then everything short of QBR. because when they say “eye” test they mean it in the literal singular sense. they have to be watching multiple people per play to assign grades to and they only watch each play once (iirc an interview I read) so they can get grades out immediately. so like a guy will have to grade the entire OL based on seeing the game and one look at all 22 and another guy has to grade all the WRs. so each player is only getting .2-.33 of an eye per play.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:06
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Metapod posted:Defenses have plays packages for run pass distance and just about any given situation. Making your opponent respect the run is about forcing the opponent to call their run packages their run blitzs etc. When you can force your opponent to play a certain way its much easier to do whatever it is you want to do because you can more easily predict what's going to happen on the other side. This is a very real thing and it's a very powerful thing and it has very little to do with playaction I understand what you are saying, but the numbers say otherwise. I think it largely comes down to whether you believe in advanced stats or not https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/964205150540877824 Running has it's uses, but it isn't to make passing easier or to be the focal point of your offense.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:15
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A good running game is priceless since it gives you a greater degree of control over the clock. Problem is, that's only useful if you're ahead. 
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Nov 24, 2021 19:17
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sweet thursday posted:Not going to stand for Frank Gore erasure. Tell Meredith to clear my afternoon, I'm about to get reckless  Fullbacks also need to make a comeback.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:20
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I don’t remember who said it probably former Chiefs standout safety Sabby Piscatelli but there are 3 things that can happen when your QB drops back to pass and 2 of them are bad
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Nov 24, 2021 19:23
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Hot Diggity! posted:Eye test is more important than so-called "advanced analytics" change my mind well if you would just crunch the numbers I think youll find that analytics based strategies have been 65% more effective than no strategy at all, ranked no worse than 7th in ERA over the period from 2013-2020 if you exclude the month of January, and then when you stack up the PEMDAS against the EPA its actually been more efficient than knowing the future ahead of time,
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Nov 24, 2021 19:27
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Kalli posted:Counterpoint: PFF manages to be worse then everything short of QBR. That's because they try to turn the eye test into advanced analytics. The eye test is simply "does this player look good." If a player looks good more than not, they're a good player by the eye test. Good players can have bad games. PFF tries to apply that to every single down in a vacuum and make a grade of a player's overall quality based upon that. It's stupid and a waste of everybody's time. The "rule of cool" also has no place in analytics, which makes it pointless.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:29
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fartknocker posted:
linebackers have gotten smaller and fullbacks are more useful than ever right now
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Nov 24, 2021 19:30
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Shinjobi posted:A good running game is priceless since it gives you a greater degree of control over the clock. Remember this gem https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200909210mia.htm
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Nov 24, 2021 19:31
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Nodoze posted:I understand what you are saying, but the numbers say otherwise. I think it largely comes down to whether you believe in advanced stats or not This is based on QBR which is an awful stat
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Nov 24, 2021 19:32
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Sour Diesel posted:linebackers have gotten smaller and fullbacks are more useful than ever right now fullbacks have gotten smaller too though. in fact many positions are suffering from this, look at Kyler Murray
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Nov 24, 2021 19:44
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Asproigerosis posted:Amazing running backs haven't been relevant since the extinction of the fullback. Taylor routinely out runs defenses.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:59
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Pron on VHS posted:I don’t remember who said it probably former Chiefs standout safety Sabby Piscatelli but there are 3 things that can happen when your QB drops back to pass and 2 of them are bad
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Nov 24, 2021 20:01
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Shinjobi posted:A good running game is priceless since it gives you a greater degree of control over the clock. A strong running game is the only way to count out touchdown tom
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Nov 24, 2021 20:22
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I had a chance to go to that game but missed it because of school, and I’ll forever regret that cause it turned out hilarious. The other side of time of possession chat is Super Bowl XXV, but that was also paired with a brilliant defensive game plan that was extremely well executed, and it still barely worked out for a whole bunch of reasons beyond Wide Right.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:23
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At the end of the day breaking off a big run is Cool As Heck and for that reason alone it should stay a part of the game.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:26
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If you think about it all passes less than 10 yards should be illegal
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Nov 24, 2021 20:31
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Asproigerosis posted:If you think about it all passes less than 10 yards should be illegal There should be no "incompletions," if the pass hits the ground it's a fumble.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:34
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Only backwards passes allowed. Rugby, but with helmets.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:41
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Diva Cupcake posted:This is a pretty old football maxim iirc. I read a while back it originated in college back in the 60s or 70s. Woody Hayes is the story I always heard, which would be amusing because he went out because he punched an opposing player for intercepting a pass. (among other things, he was a sweet guy) quote:On December 29, 1978, the Buckeyes played in the Gator Bowl against Clemson. Late in the fourth quarter, Clemson was leading Ohio State 17–15. Freshman quarterback Art Schlichter managed to get Ohio State into field goal range. On third and 5 at the Clemson 24-yard line with 2:30 left and the clock running, Hayes called a pass rather than a run, because Schlichter was having a great game up to that point. Schlichter's next pass was intercepted by Clemson nose guard Charlie Bauman, who returned it toward the Ohio State sideline, where he was run out of bounds. After Bauman stood up facing the OSU sideline Hayes punched him in the throat, triggering a bench-clearing brawl. It could have also been Darrel Royal who was quoted in an article saying it in 1962. He was a longtime Texas coach way back when, but looking it up briefly he seems to attribute him saying it to quoting Hayes. I don't know. It's definitely old though.
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Nov 24, 2021 21:15
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Metapod posted:That is such an incredibly ignorant thing to say lmfao Hey what's Derek Henry up to right now?
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Nov 24, 2021 21:27
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Pron on VHS posted:I don’t remember who said it probably former Chiefs standout safety Sabby Piscatelli but there are 3 things that can happen when your QB drops back to pass and 2 of them are bad this is an old maxim but also dumb bc the same 3 possibilities apply to runs as well - gain - loss/no gain - turnover And honestly if you think about it every offensive play has the same possible outcomes and I’d make it 5 possibilities - gain - no gain - loss - turnover - penalty Relentlessboredomm fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 21:29
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Elite RB's are great, in that they either add pure power to wear out defenses and prevent the defense from focusing on the pass, like Henry and Chubb, or they're basically secondary WR's that give their QB more flexibility in the pass game, like CMC and Kamara. Hell, you want to see the difference an elite RB can make, just compare the Titans offense from before and after Henry went out. Defenses were worried about one person on the offense balling out, and it certainly wasn't loving Tannehill.
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Nov 24, 2021 21:31
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Mega64 posted:Elite RB's are great, in that they either add pure power to wear out defenses and prevent the defense from focusing on the pass, like Henry and Chubb, or they're basically secondary WR's that give their QB more flexibility in the pass game, like CMC and Kamara. All of their WR are hurt. They had to sign a guy off the street to play this weekend
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Nov 24, 2021 21:34
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I don't know what the actual injury rates vs other positions are but it does feel like there's a lot of all-world RBs over the year who get a major leg injury and never get back to that level again.
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Nov 24, 2021 21:35
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Mega64 posted:Elite RB's are great, in that they either add pure power to wear out defenses and prevent the defense from focusing on the pass, like Henry and Chubb, or they're basically secondary WR's that give their QB more flexibility in the pass game, like CMC and Kamara. Ehh there’s honestly not a ton of evidence that they improve the passing game. Their main value is that it’s another tool in your offensive toolkit and when your QB isn’t playing well or just sucks it’s incredibly useful to have any other possible generator of offense.
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Nov 24, 2021 21:37
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Nodoze posted:I understand what you are saying, but the numbers say otherwise. I think it largely comes down to whether you believe in advanced stats or not lol this is total trash
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Nov 24, 2021 21:38
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Ben Baldwin is the most wrong dork since Cian Fahey
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Nov 24, 2021 21:40
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A Team Needs More Than One Good Guy by Ace McNutts is pretty much the first and last book you need to read on the subject of football analytics. It's that good.
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Nov 24, 2021 21:43
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So we’ve decided no running backs in the first round. Good Job everyone
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Nov 24, 2021 21:52
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