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Who is the last superstar, game changing RB to win a Superbowl? The position is just not as important as QB or elite pass rusher.
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Nov 24, 2021 16:32
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Nodoze posted:You can get productive running backs anywhere, drafting one at #2 over all is stupid For every non QB position that statement stands true. There is nothing that can be said about the hb position that cannot be said about every other position. It's so weird that this one position is the one that everyone wants to moneyball when the difference between an average hb and a truly good hb is immense. Like yes you can get latavius murray pretty much anywhere in the draft most likely do you really think latavius murray is a player who can get defenses to respect your run game and help win meaningful games???
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Nov 24, 2021 16:33
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watching the Ravens this year has definitely helped me the appreciate the value of RBs who are actually good
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Nov 24, 2021 16:34
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Who is the last superstar, game changing RB to win a Superbowl? In the last decade the one's who have made it to a super bowl are: Lynch (won/lost), Rice (won) Gurley (lost) The one's who made it to the conference championship game: Bell, Henry, Kamara, Aaron Jones
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Nov 24, 2021 16:48
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Boo, I wanted discovery https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1463532156379148295 e: not the n/v thread, oh well opposable thumbs.db fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 16:49
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CLOCK KILLING COREY DILLON
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Nov 24, 2021 16:50
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Metapod posted:For every non QB position that statement stands true. There is nothing that can be said about the hb position that cannot be said about every other position. It's so weird that this one position is the one that everyone wants to moneyball when the difference between an average hb and a truly good hb is immense. Like yes you can get latavius murray pretty much anywhere in the draft most likely do you really think latavius murray is a player who can get defenses to respect your run game and help win meaningful games??? it's like people really pay attention to late rounders RB who succeed but for some reason don't do the same for other positions like, Matt Judon was a 5th rounder out of Division II who is a hell of a player so never draft EDGE at #2 I guess
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Nov 24, 2021 17:02
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Who is the last superstar, game changing RB to win a Superbowl? Who’s the last really elite pass rusher to drag his team to a SB win? Bucs were great across the front but Vea is probably the only really elite guy in that group and he’s in the middle, Chiefs had Clark who is great at his peak but not a top 5-10 type guy over his entire career, the Pats churn thru pass rushers, Brandon Graham had the biggest play for the Eagles that wasn’t the Philly special but I don’t think he’s going top 10 in a redraft, etc The Bosas haven’t had playoff success, TJ Watt hasn’t been to a SB, JJ at his peak was the best defensive player I’ve seen play live and couldn’t get there. Von is probably the best example, but that entire defense was really good and that was a a bit of an outlier playoff run If that’s your metric you should only ever draft QB’s in the first round wyoak fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 17:03
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wyoak posted:Who’s the last really elite pass rusher to drag his team to a SB win? Bucs were great across the front but Vea is probably the only really elite guy in that group and he’s in the middle, Chiefs had Clark who is great at his peak but not a top 5-10 type guy over his entire career, the Pats churn thru pass rushers, Brandon Graham had the biggest play for the Eagles that wasn’t the Philly special but I don’t think he’s going top 10 in a redraft, etc If you’re looking at pass rushers, probably Von Miller in 2015, but aside from him that defense has a bunch of other talented guys as well.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:06
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I mean it's more that top drafted RB's are rarely worth it. Saquon Barkley - injured and underperforming since his rookie year. Leonard Fournette - lol Christian McCaffrey - Injured 13 games last year, missed half this year Ezekiel Elliott - Pretty good, went to a team with 1st rounders up and down the OL. Has regressed as they have. Todd Gurley - lol Trent Richardson - double lol CJ Spiller - lol Darren McFadden - nope Adrian Peterson - Hey, here we go. Reggie Bush - nope Ronnie Brown - nope Cedric Benson - nope Cadillac Williams - nope 20 years of top 10 picks and you've got 2 or 3 hits if you want to be kind? Even the desperation of overdrafting Quarterbacks has a higher hit rate and at least you like make and win playoff games if you hit on those guys.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:14
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only take the best players top 5, and maybe top 10, before lesser players are gotten into
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Nov 24, 2021 17:14
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As lol as Gurley is now, he was the main reason (well, McVay) that team got to the SB. If he’s healthy and they manage 14 points that game who knows, you might say the pick was worth it
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Nov 24, 2021 17:18
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Nobody is worth a top-10 pick and teams should just trade back.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:20
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Kalli posted:I mean it's more that top drafted RB's are rarely worth it. And even AP was not enough!
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Nov 24, 2021 17:22
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Quiet Feet posted:Nobody is worth a top-10 pick and teams should just trade back. as the rams learned after todd gurley
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Nov 24, 2021 17:23
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Quiet Feet posted:Nobody is worth a top-10 pick and teams should just trade back. Just keep trading until you have the entire 32 1st round and hope you hit on someone worth their position Or do what the Rams do and never bother with rounds 1 and 2 and keep trading those picks forever
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Nov 24, 2021 17:23
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CMC was worth his draft slot. Objectively, if there was a redraft he would go about where he was taken.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:23
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We drafted Tomlinson at #5 overall and he never made it to a superbowl. Good pick would 100% draft again
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Nov 24, 2021 17:25
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Draft big ol' hosses and make holes you could get any sized running back through.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:25
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:And even AP was not enough! Brett went Full Favre and then he had to deal with the Christian Ponder Ariel Experience (Also the corpse of  and a blown ACL).EDIT: Remember the freeing of Joe Webb? fartknocker fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 17:26
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QB notwithstanding, RB is not really that much different than any other position. I think a big part is people judge RBs almost entirely by highlights and fantasy points, and there are lots of Tyson Williams out there who can move well in the open field and look good in a box score when they get the touches, but on a down-to-down basis in real life they are killing your football team. People hated the Najee pick, but like, with only 1 pick Najee improves your run game way more than a random lineman or whatever. TFF always wants to draft OL 1st, but you know you can also find mid/late round diamond in the rough types like the Pats do all the time with Mike Onwenu, Joe Thuney, Shaq Mason, Marcus Cannon,
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Nov 24, 2021 17:29
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Magicpants posted:QB notwithstanding, RB is not really that much different than any other position. I think a big part is people judge RBs almost entirely by highlights and fantasy points, and there are lots of Tyson Williams out there who can move well in the open field and look good in a box score when they get the touches, but on a down-to-down basis in real life they are killing your football team. Running backs aren't always the best! It's a team effort!
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Nov 24, 2021 17:34
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My view is there are premium positions: QB then pass rushers and tackles, then CB's and WR's, then safeties and TE's, then interior OL, RB's and non-pass rushing LB's. Yeah there can be a prospect so good you're happy to draft them in the top 5 regardless of position, but depressingly, you'd probably be better off with the average 1st round tackle or pass rusher then a 90th percentile RB. And quarterbacks ruin everything. Great team, poo poo QB? You're hosed, Good team, mediocre QB? still pretty hosed.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:38
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Pick 199 should be known as the "Tom Brady Commemorative Pick" and it should be awarded to whoever the top QB remaining is on Mel Kiper's draft board.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:40
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Mystic Stylez posted:it's like people really pay attention to late rounders RB who succeed but for some reason don't do the same for other positions Yeah like the entire job of a hb is to take the ball from behind the LoS and out run/power/maneuver 11 people trying to bring you down and there are people out there who think you shouldn't put proper investment into this position because the draft is insanely random absolutely crazy.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:42
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Wow it's <checks card> Luke Falk!
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Nov 24, 2021 17:42
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wyoak posted:The Bosas haven’t had playoff success Making the super bowl doesn’t count?
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Nov 24, 2021 17:45
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RB isn’t valued as much bc they have the shortest shelf life of any position. Even if you get a world beater they’ll be around for less time than any other position
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Nov 24, 2021 18:00
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Relentlessboredomm posted:RB isn’t valued as much bc they have the shortest shelf life of any position. Even if you get a world beater they’ll be around for less time than any other position I think one thing that will helpfully make cmc unique is that he would be a pretty good slot receiver as is If they make a decision they can move him to wr permanently/primarily
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Nov 24, 2021 18:01
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Kalli posted:And quarterbacks ruin everything. Great team, poo poo QB? You're hosed, Good team, mediocre QB? still pretty hosed. The 2000 Ravens would like a word
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Nov 24, 2021 18:02
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Draft Tight ends. They’re like receivers AND offensive line.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:05
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Freaquency posted:The 2000 Ravens would like a word Exceptions prove the rule
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Nov 24, 2021 18:06
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FizFashizzle posted:If they make a decision they can move him to wr permanently/primarily I remember this being a talking point way back when he was drafted, but I mostly chalked it up to his last name. I mean I'm not really disagreeing with you after having seen his career, just I remember that way back then.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:06
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Relentlessboredomm posted:RB isn’t valued as much bc they have the shortest shelf life of any position. Even if you get a world beater they’ll be around for less time than any other position I think this is the real issue. There’s no developing an RB like there is a QB because by the time they’re good enough - oops, they’re dead. An RB has a season at the same level of year 1 Josh Allen and you might be already looking ahead to the next guy. I also think that judging whether or not a position group is important on if a star at that position won the SB is unfair when Tom Brady has won like 40% of the Super Bowls in recent memory.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:07
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Draft like 5-10 sumo wrestlers
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Nov 24, 2021 18:08
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the sneaky move is to load up on long snappers, they can block like a lineman but also toss the ball kind of like a qb
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Nov 24, 2021 18:08
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Metapod posted:For every non QB position that statement stands true. There is nothing that can be said about the hb position that cannot be said about every other position. It's so weird that this one position is the one that everyone wants to moneyball when the difference between an average hb and a truly good hb is immense. Like yes you can get latavius murray pretty much anywhere in the draft most likely do you really think latavius murray is a player who can get defenses to respect your run game and help win meaningful games??? Respecting the run game isn't a real thing, you don't need a good running game to throw the ball successfully People don't respect running backs anymore because they are literally expendable, like relief pitchers. You ride them to the ground for a couple years and then let them go and have them be someone elses problem. If you hit on a linebacker in the 4th round that turns into a stud you generally don't have to worry about the wheels falling off after three seasons
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Nov 24, 2021 18:10
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That is such an incredibly ignorant thing to say lmfao
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Nov 24, 2021 18:15
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Nodoze posted:Respecting the run game isn't a real thing, you don't need a good running game to throw the ball successfully Wait a minute...
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Nov 24, 2021 18:18
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Gtfo u r ignint
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Nov 24, 2021 18:20
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