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WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Reposting this since it's no longer in the thread title:

https://twitter.com/NoJokeChris/status/1311691567195918339

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WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

I could use some help analyzing this loss where I made a lot of blunders but ones that didn't immediately lose material, and I didn't really feel I was losing until I found myself is a really bad position. I'm a pretty bad player but usually my mistakes are more obvious to me.

https://lichess.org/m3zhAfl0

code:
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "1721"]
[BlackElo "1695"]
[ECO "C50"]
[Opening "Italian Game: Giuoco Pianissimo, Normal"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. d3 Bc5 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bh4 a6 7. a3 d6 8. O-O Bg4 9. h3 Bxf3 10. Qxf3 Nd4 11. Qd1 Qd7 12. c3 Ne6 13. Nd2 Nf4 14. Nb3 Ba7 15. Re1 b5 16. Bd5 { 0-1 White resigns. } 0-1

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Esposito posted:

I'm a worse player than you, but just following the best moves at each of the big eval jumps shows why they were bad. h3 means black, who hasn't castled yet, is free to push their h and g pawns, and then has a knight, queen, and rook ready to take advantage of your weakened kingside. Talking Re1 in lieu of another move means you don't give your bishop any escape squares and you're eventually forced to sac it too.

Thanks, I'm way overrated because I don't have many rated correspondence games. I'm probably like 1200 which on chess.com would be like 600/700

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

is there a link to the current tourney? this one seems to link to the previous one or something https://lichess.org/tournament/WMEZdyxr

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

I think where my brain would stop is "oh I see that I could sac the bishop to get that fork, but since they can just move their queen away it's too risky"

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

You can get an approximate idea by looking at the rating distributions for particular formats. It's not going to perfect of course but you can see what the percentile numbers look like:

https://www.chess.com/leaderboard/live
https://lichess.org/stat/rating/distribution/blitz

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

sephiRoth IRA posted:

So do I just start playing blitz until I get good, or books- what does the first month look like?

are you talking about learning chess from scratch?

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Sway Grunt posted:

The uncertainty of whether Magnus will play the WC is kind of unfortunate to be honest, hard to know if this battle for second place is even meaningful in that sense. It would've been better for both players and viewers had he announced his decision prior to the tournament. It's still fun to watch, and I suppose there's a small chance Nepo might not win still, but having that question mark hanging over the tournament just kind of sucks.

maybe, I think it’s super unlikely that Magnus would give up his title to the person he just completely destroyed in the last championship because he’s bored. so any announcement prior to the candidates would make it like any other candidates where 2nd place doesn’t matter

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

I'm really surprised, I would have bet real money that he would still defend the title. But I guess when you are just far and away the best and the competition isn't close, there's nothing to prove really.

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Salt Fish posted:

Naroditsky gave a 20 minute talk about the Magnus situation and his thoughts about it. Unfortunately he did it on the same twitch VOD that he later deleted because he had to perform a dance after losing a bet to the Botez sisters.

what's the summary of his take on it?

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Doctor Malaver posted:

You do, Hand Knit. But it seems a growing number of players and spectators don't. How many people do you know who have the time and the desire to watch 30+ hours of chess during the championship match?

I don't really see why it matters what spectators think. Players, sure if there is a general consensus, but different formats exist for a reason.


totalnewbie posted:

I don't understand why it's necessary to have a single champion for every format. Classical, rapid, and blitz have different required skills (I mean, not THAT different) and so why not have different champions for each format?

I think you can draw a pretty good comparison to cricket. Test cricket is a thing that only people who really like cricket would get into but one-day or 20/20 is much more accessible to the general public. Similarly, not everyone can really get into classical games but rapid or blitz are a lot more accessible. That seems fine.

The skills are similar but certainly not the same. Fabi can play better than a lot of super-GMs in classical but in rapid those same players could crush him.

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Doctor Malaver posted:

I think you'll find most sports organizations disagree.

Which sports organization do you think FIDE is most similar to? Sports leagues make money from licensing and advertising during their televised games and so optimizing for spectators (to some degree) makes sense. FIDE doesn’t really operate that way and I don’t expect them to

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Magnetic North posted:

I'd be super interested to hear how people are managing to cheat with so much scrutiny and live broadcasts. They catch MtG cheaters all the fukken time.

I don't really understand the mechanism either, is it that they are looking at an engine in their phone away from the table or something?

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Is a super-GM getting incorrectly banned on chess.com a thing that happens routinely?

I imagine there are going to be false positives but if you have already been caught cheating one or two times, it's pretty reasonable for people to question future performances. Getting put under the microscope is a pretty natural consequence of cheating in the past, even if there's an element of personal dislike which there also seems to be among the other high level players.

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

all I can really say is I hope we get another PIPI IN YOUR PAMPERS screed from someone

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

https://twitter.com/chess24com/status/1567287375184658435

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

neaden posted:

Oh cool, accusations are proof now, good to know.

Whatever chesscom has is proof enough for them. We don't know what exactly they have but I doubt they are taking this lightly.

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

gret posted:

I seriously doubt Hans would risk cheating in places like Cuba and UAE, all places where he's done pretty well recently in tournaments.

What? He's not going to get arrested

Also trying to apply logic to the mind of a cheater doesn't work, it's a pathology

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Okay if this 19 year old is just totally in the head of Magnus then gently caress it, I'm on his side now

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

TheRat posted:

Isn't he specifically not allowed to say anything due to FIDE rules, meaning this 'silent' protest is the only thing in his power?

Maybe, I couldn't figure out from the FIDE rules whether they penalize for falsely accusing of cheating in a particular event, or just generally, or both. This most recent thing by Magnus is him saying "I don't ever want to play against this guy" through his actions. I think arguably you shouldn't be able to enter tournaments and then quit in bad faith just for that reason.

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

cheaters spotted

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

TheRat posted:

He also revealed that Hans' coach was Maxim Dlugy, who's also been banned for cheating online.

"What was the reason you withdrew from that game?"

"Unfortunately I cannot particularly speak on that but people can draw their own conclusion & they certainly have. I have to say I am very impressed by Niemann's play & I think his mentor Maxim Dlugy must have been doing a great job"


no notes

edit: okay one note that this video was posted on Magnus' own channel, with this thumbnail



I mean come on man. Just say it.

WorldIndustries fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Sep 21, 2022

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

TheRat posted:

He also revealed that Hans' coach was Maxim Dlugy, who's also been banned for cheating online.

I can't find any confirmation that Maxim was actually banned for cheating online

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

cheetah7071 posted:

I feel like the magnus interview was a lot of words that amounted to "my lawyer has advised me not to comment"

that's a smokescreen though, he's saying "yes I resigned the match, but I'm very impressed with Hans' play and how well his coach Maxim prepared him" which anyone with a brain would read as an accusation

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

fisting by many posted:

I read that he gained rating at all USCF tournaments that had real-time video and lost rating at all events that didn't over a span of 19 tournaments.



Assuming this list is true and complete, that would be suspiciously unlikely. If gaining or losing rating is equally probable, the odds of that specific outcome would be 1 in 524,288.

This is bad application of stats because you are inventing a reason for the correlation when other reasons might exist. Like it makes sense he would gain points at the junior open if he's way better than other juniors, but lose points at a world open, so the chance of gain/losing rating is not 50/50 in that case. And generally the more important tournaments with bigger competitors are going to have real time video.

I think Hans is likely to have been or currently be cheating beyond what he already admitted to, but this alone is a bad argument.

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Salt Fish posted:

Hikaru played my clip on his stream today so I'm basically famous now sorry everyone.


was it the artosis clip? i wish i didn't need to subscribe to watch the Hikaru vods

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

lichess is dope and completely free, chess.com is run by crypto-shills

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

The Ninth Layer posted:

Is there really a big epidemic of falsely accused cheaters out there? Pretty much every story related to chess cheating I've heard of, the accused cheater turned out to indeed be cheating, or at least was discovered to be terrible at chess when unable to cheat

There are plenty of false positives from these supposedly hand-checked systems, like the person earlier in the thread. Though I still think their methods are probably sound when applied over enough games and a human double checking.

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

cheetah7071 posted:

While the full 72 page report doesn't seem to be public yet, the WSJ summarizes it as basically "Hans lied about the degree, extent, and time frame of his cheating on our website. You should not take his statements on the matter at face value, and here's why. Here's a few things we hope the otb cheating experts investigate." It seems perfectly in line with what an investigation by chess.com can or should be able to say, to me.

Do we know if it ever going to be public?

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Sub Rosa posted:

Honestly I'm pretty underwhelmed by the report. It does directly contradict Hans in terms of if Hans had cheated in money events, and to a small extent also in terms of frequency. But Hans won two Titled Tuesdays this year! Even with extra attention and scrutiny, they aren't asserting he cheated online post his last ban? I expected more.

well yeah, because if their cheating detection is so good and he cheated after those bans, why didn't they catch him again prior to the current drama? if anything it's the expected result

I still think lying about the extent of cheating you already confessed to is enough to warrant a ban OTB. chess.com is also not a great actor and I don't trust them very much either

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

The most significant thing about the report is the actual list of games they are disclosing, and we'll probably see other pros join Magnus in saying they refuse to play Hans.

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

he should probably explain why he lied about cheating in money games!

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Faust IX posted:

Money changes everything, and Chess.com acquiring Play Magnus Group/etc. kind of casts, you know, reasonable doubt as to whether or not there is a conflict of intest in the form of that $82.9 Million buyout. If my star who I just paid over EIGHTY MILLION DOLLARS for in their branding decides to be, for lack of a better term, butthurt over taking a 19 year old for a chump and not admitting to himself that, you know, he could have legitimately just hosed up, and then refuses to play in any matches with said person, throwing off an entire tournament bracket...

Well, of course you'd want to try and save face, even if you don't have the balls to tell your star player you bought that they should stop that poo poo, because it could be bad for business.

I have nothing but respect for Niemann for taking this and running with it, and kind of making a really good point: it's a game that speaks for itself. There are only 169,518,829,100,544,000,000,000,000,000 ways to play the first ten moves of a game of chess, and you literally have to think like a supercomputer to figure out the pattern as it's going along. It is entirely humanly possible for this to happen, because even if you are studying the board, the opposing player, and attempting to get into their head and plan 5 moves ahead, they're doing the same.

What I'm saying is Magnus Carlsen operating in assembly while Hans Niemann is in C, C#, C++, or any modern day form of coding/computing, and the human brain is nothing but a biological supercomputer to people like these. Hans is just operating on a newer model.

Dude looks, acts, and sounds like a savant who probably has an account here, even.



I don't know about all that

Chesscom is acting about how I'd expect them act even if they didn't have an explicit professional relationship with Magnus

There's nothing opaque about what is going on. Just about everyone hates Hans, Magnus is blackballing Hans in hope that he'll eat a ban from FIDE or just not get invited to stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsikAfMrNQA

I don't really care about Hans, he's a repeat cheater who did lie about his past cheating on the website and in paid events. I wouldn't want to play against someone like that either

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Redmark posted:

My hypothesis is that people rage at chess because of the stereotypical connection with intelligence. So when you lose you feel like you got outsmarted and that stings.
Instead I look at it like any other video game. If I'm in a winning position and hang a piece, that's like playing Street Fighter, dropping a 2-frame link and getting reversal supered by some button masher. It doesn't mean anything other than "lol practice your combos".

for me its a combo of this, plus working really hard in chess to get an advantage and then tossing it away with a blunder is just the worst feeling.

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

they all hate him so much lol

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

And for what it's worth, those pieces are a pretty classic design of the Staunton variety, I usually see them referred to as a "craftsman" set based on another variation that was sold decades ago. You can find many variants, they are largely made in India so you can order directly from some websites for about $200-250 for a good set. Just make sure you get one with a king at least 3.75 inches, pieces for a full sized chess board usually have 4 inch kings.

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

tanglewood1420 posted:


It's kinda crazy that every single piece of advice anyone will give you to improve your chess - tactical exercises, opening prep, endgame practice, puzzles etc - the best chess player ever is like "nah, I'm good I'll just think about chess subconsciously whilst I play tennis with my buddy all afternoon".

It's not like he hasn't studied all of that stuff in the past though, he regularly recalls old historical games published from books and things like that.

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Charles Ingalls posted:

Re: the current thread title, I assume an actual highly competent/prestigious law firm would never allow that absurd language? Regardless of legal merit, it’s just so horrendously poorly written, like a literal child arguing with a teacher. I have no idea how it actually works, but I refuse to believe that actually good and reputable law firms don’t have people whose job it is to improve the actual prose of whatever the client brings in

i think to some degree a lawyer who knows they have no case is probably just going to write it up in the voice their client wants to see. so they're pretty clearly just transposing whatever insane screed Hans or his parents handed them

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WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004

Huxley posted:

OK! Take a stockfish break, go lose to some real people.

Which type should I play?

I wouldn't go any faster than 5 minutes but whatever is your preference is fine. Longer time controls will let you be more thoughtful about your moves which is good, but not everyone has the time for a 30 minute game. As a fellow beginner I also found that playing faster time controls helped get over my fear of playing real opponents because you can just lose and move on.

Also it's great to keep one correspondence game going at a time (the one-day per move format) just to see what it's like with unlimited time to be sure of every move.

I'd also never do any takebacks against computer or real opponents (unless it's with a friend and your/their mouse slipped)

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