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therattle posted:Re leftwing antisemitism, my brother is a very committed Zionist. He, for example, believes that the threat to Jews is far greater from the left than the right (I feel pretty strongly otherwise). He brought up this as an example (and while searching I also found the second example, which is a bit more nuanced): In the first link, was anyone turning up with Turkish or Chinese national symbols? In the second, were any explicitly pro-Turkish or pro-Chinese groups present? To take an example closer to home, there aren't parliamentary groups called Labour Friends of Turkey, China, Saudi Arabia or whomever explicitly lobbying for the Labour Party to foster closer connections with those states. Considering a large part of what LFI does is to deliberately conflate anti-Zionism with antisemitism, of course it's going to generate more pushback, and of course it's going to generate more attention because LFI deliberately want it to. The irony is that some of that pushback & some of that attention is going to lead some people in an antisemitic direction & also create a smokescreen for "wilful" antisemites to say "nuh uh I'm just an antizionist". But I don't think (iirc overwhelmingly non-Jewish) LFI give a gently caress about that. (incidentally I'm also not sure it's possible to be a committed Zionist and not think that the greatest threat to Jewish people comes from the left, since the belief that only Zionism can protect the Jewish people is kind of intrinsic to it & the left absolutely is a bigger threat to Zionism, since the right loving love ethnonationalism & also all the Jews leaving)
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Dec 1, 2021 13:28
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Think how many people those donkeys could feed
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Dec 1, 2021 13:53
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therattle posted:I also think that there can be different good-faith perspectives on whether anti0-Zionism is antisemitic or not. There is a tendency on the left to automatically assume that anyone saying anti-Zionism is antisemitic is acting in bad faith though, which is kind of annoying imo since it just isn't true. Lots of Jews sincerely believe that the only way to protect the Jewish people from *gestures at recorded history* is a Jewish state, meaning that opposing Zionism is opposing the safety of the Jewish people. But frankly it's hard to engage in good faith debate with those people anyway, since why would they want to debate with people they regard as racist against them (& in any event it's essentially an emotional argument, which you pretty much can't debate anyway).
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Dec 1, 2021 14:04
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therattle posted:I would like to see you argue with regard to other forms of racism that it's just lazy dumbasses who don't think sufficiently rather than active racists.
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Dec 1, 2021 14:34
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Borrovan posted:The Venn diagram of active racists & dumbasses who don't think properly is two overlapping circles with no elements in the non-overlapping parts
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Dec 1, 2021 14:37
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Dec 1, 2021 14:40
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EvilHawk posted:Thread, I need your help/advice. A friend of mine has CFS/MS, and has been told by his mother (by text, no less) that she is moving up north and he will not be coming with her. Effectively, he will be made homeless in the next couple of weeks. Fortunately he has a brother (who is also estranged from their mother) in Farnborough who has found a spare room for him around the corner with his fiance's mother-in-law, but we all know stories of how temporary that arrangement can be, particularly with someone who most days is incapable of getting out of bed. This isn't me as a person with legal training talking btw, it's me as a person who did this about 15 years ago, so he should definitely talk to Shelter for advice, this is like their bread and butter. I do have very limited professional experience dealing with homelessness though, & I'm pretty sure there's still legal aid available for housing issues in case the Council deny their obligation to house him, so he needs to get on Universal Credit immediately to make sure he qualifies for legal aid.
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Dec 2, 2021 09:48
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Kin posted:So my other half has just gone into labour and we're gonna be in the hospital from 2 this afternoon going through everything. If you get chucked out of the hospital at any point due to Covid poo poo, clean the house from top to bottom. It needs to be loving spotless when she gets back. Also get her something nice to come home to, like food or flowers or whatever, & make sure you've got everything you need (e.g. lots of caffeine) within arms reach of wherever you intend to stay up all night with the baby whilst your partner sleeps. My daughter's only 10 weeks old, I'm getting all nostalgic remembering bringing her home now, congratulations mate  (e: most of this advice given to me by the older lady who runs the burger van near my work so ymmv, but it went down very well with my partner) Borrovan fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 09:58
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Zalakwe posted:If there is a smoking gun on this I reckon Boris is done, possibly even without one if the by-elections go badly.
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Dec 2, 2021 13:42
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The Perfect Element posted:I don't think that many people will still care about last Christmas tbh. NotJustANumber99 posted:Johnson wasn't even at the party and they can get away with saying all covid restrictions were followed as apparently the legislation used to make the covid rules has an exception for downing street. Which should be more of a "...you loving what?"
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Dec 2, 2021 14:45
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Publishing what essentially amounts to an exit poll of postal voters sounds like the sort of thing that should be illegal imo. It's illegal to talk about the actual postal votes,* or to release "actual" exit polls before the polls close, this is, at best, skeevy as gently caress. *, LAURA!
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Dec 2, 2021 15:04
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When I was looking it up ages ago I found a long BBC article that basically described the situation according to various sources, citing the sources so you can look them up, about half of them turned out to be Zenz-adjacent but the rest looked solid Cba to Google it up but it exists
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Dec 2, 2021 20:52
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kingturnip posted:just get a craniectomy done and start poking around. I'm sure we'll be able to find something
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Dec 3, 2021 09:09
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I'd guess the reasoning is something like: "it shouldn't be possible to get drugs in prison, & people should be able to just quit cold turkey, therefore it isn't possible and people will. Oh btw we're not spending any extra money or changing anything, lalalaa can't hear you ought=is" Kind of thinking you'd expect from average Daily Mail reader, pretty disturbing from Justice Secretary
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Dec 3, 2021 10:41
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e: ^^^ my partner's done a whole bunch of research into the psychology of prison wardens that can be summarised as "Basically They're Just Cunts", wishful thinking imotherattle posted:And I don't know if Human Rights Watch is considered too Western a source. crispix posted:if you take a moment to think about it it's probably not a good idea to ... prison
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Dec 3, 2021 12:13
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Gonzo McFee posted:Also TIL Apex Twin's sister is not only a Labour MP, she's in the Shadow Cabinet. She did a helpful thing once wrt a local pro-Kurd/anti-Turkey campaign a few years ago, other than that I think she's pretty typical Welsh Labour (i.e. soft-left liberal melt but better than the PLP) e: googling it she supported OMOV for Welsh leadership elections back when it was on the table in 2018, which is the measure of A Good 'Un round here imo Borrovan fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 12:28
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therattle posted:(and with the assessment of prison officers. I have always wondered who the hell becomes one, unless people are just desperate for work) The rest of them are just petty vindictive tyrants, the kind of people who just want to push people around & feel superior to them. The ones in charge are the worst, there's a whole culture of rewarding people who go the extra mile in arbitrarily making life lovely for the prisoners. Can't go into any detail as there's very few people with her exact research interests, but trust me it's bad, especially wrt treatment of vulnerable prisoners. It's a bit like the whole self-correcting corollary to ACAB, that in the unlikely event of a good person accidentally becoming a police they either stop being a police or stop being a good person.
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Dec 3, 2021 13:06
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Yeah fair point, but otoh: fully sanctioned plausibly deniable torture, what's not to love
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Dec 3, 2021 13:29
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Jakabite posted:Withdrawals don’t even leave bruises!
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Dec 3, 2021 13:42
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ThomasPaine posted:This is just standard anarchist-ML beef lol, I guess we're not going to resolve the schism on this dead gay comedy forum
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Dec 3, 2021 18:56
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OwlFancier posted:I just think it's a bit silly that all over the world and all across time we have these big hierarchical organizations running countries and corporations and churches and it turns out the people at the top of them use their power to do utterly horrific poo poo literally all the time, and apparently there are still people going "hey now maybe it's just that we have the wrong people in charge, you can't just write off the system" I mean any kind of utopian idealism is inherently just speculation & it's weird for anyone to be absolutely sure that their completely theoretical idea will work unlike every other attempt that's ever been implemented, but it's particularly weird when that ideal is just some variation on the theme of "authoritarianism again but better this time" when scores of other flavours of basically the same thing have been tried, with the same results each time. At least anarchist organising has practical uses in the here & now.
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Dec 3, 2021 19:36
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Guavanaut posted:State bad, alternative worse at present, but state definitely tries to protect itself from having to do any of the things that might make it less bad unless forced. Same often goes for other structures like unions once they get large enough. Idk how feasible that is in the long term, we're only a couple of centuries in at this point but it's looking like "not very"? (disclaimer: I'm drunk, apologies if I was being a dick TP it's been a long day)
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Dec 3, 2021 19:44
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StarkingBarfish posted:Young Labour... good? It's Labour Students that can get to gently caress
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Dec 3, 2021 22:31
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Many congrats to the new-baby-haver, I'd offer some advice but my own little one is kicking off rn so I'll just give you the one & only foolproof strategy guaranteed to work on any baby: Just Wing It All The TimeBobby Deluxe posted:This is always going to be the frustrating thing about discussing capitalism and liberalism vs communism / socialism with anyone. The lib/cap side is always going to keep arguing an idealised fantasy version of their theory and ignoring real world attempts at them failing as not really being lib/cap, and it still being a noble goal. But com/soc of course is always argued in terms of the real world failures (that largely failed because of lib/cap interference or corruption), and then using that as an argument against the theoretical, idealised systems. Bobby Deluxe posted:https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1466870397366845440?t=XstHirDZIgp59DuMQ2k9cA&s=19
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Dec 4, 2021 12:40
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therattle posted:Sounds right but how exactly do you get from 43154 to 35907? Looks right to me seb
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Dec 6, 2021 13:05
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I feel like the problem people have with George Monbiot is in fact nothing to do with George Monbiot at all but in the fact that being a political commentator in this country does not select for knowing anything about politics (I have no opinion on George Monbiot)
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Dec 7, 2021 11:16
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Guavanaut posted:Yeah Brown apologized for calling the racist a racist, the media all gathered round and said that we need to hear the racist's important views, and it turned out they were racist
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Dec 7, 2021 12:23
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sebzilla posted:"I was unaware of the, uhh... gathering that took place in my, in my flat because I actually spent the, ah, entire evening in my bedroom uhhh.... " I just remembered yesterday that he said that & this seemed like a good opportunity to remind everyone.
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Dec 8, 2021 15:17
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I thought he was just a dipshit & any collateral advantage was purely coincidental  keep punching joe posted:Has anyone seen one of Johnson's bus models, does he have an Etsy store?
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Dec 8, 2021 15:27
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Honestly looking forward to hearing what my "I suffered so everyone else should have to as well" Tory voting grandparents make of this. This actually seems like exactly the kind of thing (& the only kind of thing) that could actually get through to that particular type of voter (which I understand comprises about 40% of voters)
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Dec 8, 2021 15:53
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josh04 posted:They're going to become Toby Young Lockdown Skeptics dot Com. Same bloke also happens to be without question the biggest oval office I have ever met. Prolly just coincidence
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Dec 8, 2021 16:32
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I have not
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Dec 8, 2021 16:34
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I also have Northern France parents who usually have a big family Christmas bash, & they decided a month ago that they're noping out & spending Christmas alone this year on account of the fact that the alternative is loving mental. It's tough but just say no imo. (also if your folks are in Brittany there's a good chance I've met them, because expats)
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Dec 8, 2021 19:41
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Someone at Scotland Yard heard about AI not being able to recognise non-white faces, huh
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Dec 8, 2021 20:58
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Wondering how the various hung parliament options fit in. I put Lab/Tory coalition between 3 & 4
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Dec 9, 2021 01:11
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Just gonna set out my difficulties with the "let Labour die" argument - as I understand it, it's: Step one: socialists leave Labour Step two: ??? Step three: Labour dies Step four: ??? Step five: The problem with step 2 is that the reason why Labour is dying (imo) is because of irreconcilable differences between the left & right of the party. The left leaving just means that the right win, Labour becomes the Tory-lite liberal party of the middle classes. They will eventually find corporate backers, most of the unions will stick around to preserve their influence (don't forget that the trade unions nowadays overwhelmingly represent middle class professionals, & the bigger unions have developed perverse incentives to not actually change much in order to preserve their own existence). The party doesn't die, it just sucks harder. The problem with step 4 is that the formation of every major party in UK history has been a major seismic shift. Tories (& Whigs) are (/were) as old as Parliamentary democracy. Liberals were born from the industrial revolution. The Labour Party was born from the foundation of the unions (themselves born from a century of violence). There is literally no example of a major party growing from grass roots (e: forgot about the nationalist parties here, but national independence movements are pretty clearly their own thing). Imo the best that can be hoped for is like a left-UKIP, exerting pressure on the Labour Party. Which, like, cool, I guess, but the Labour Party dying, or going more right wing, directly contradicts that. Personally, I'm still a member, because imo in order for there to be a major left party it has to be the legitimate political wing of the labour movement, which Labour still is, sadly. Right now, Labour happy to kill itself fighting left wing Labour members like me, and if it does that, cool, the unions will need to form a new party I guess, there's our new socialist (or at least unambiguously pro-union) party. I'm not voting for them though lmao. Borrovan fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 13:50
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Hey comrades everyone loves RP group drama right? Got a situation I could use some validation on: Just got a group email from a friend, saying that a very old friend of his (who used to play with us, & then subsequently got into posting a bunch of nazi poo poo on Facebook) is dying or something, misses roleplaying, & would like to join us again. I said he can gently caress right off & there's no way I'm sitting round a table with a loving nazi. Funny thing is the guy who emailed is married to a first gen non white immigrant & finds the nazi poo poo more upsetting than anyone, but he's also got serious anxiety issues & hates conflict & they go way back so ugh whatever I guess. Also seems a bit off since nazi guy (before anyone had ever heard any nazi poo poo from him) is the one who introduced me to most of the group a decade back. But, nonetheless, gently caress that, I'm not doing it. I did right, right?
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Dec 9, 2021 14:16
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Cheers all, I already knew the answer but felt a bit off (although there was no way I was doing otherwise), knew I could count on you lot  NotJustANumber99 posted:Also if you just go no thanks and miss those meetings, or make a fuss and say they shouldn't be happening at all. Convex posted:I'd say attend only if it's an intervention to tell him that being a nazi is terrible and he needs to recant everything before it's too late lmao this was my exact emotional reaction on getting the email
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Dec 9, 2021 14:57
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forkboy84 posted:OK, let's take the counterpoint in equally reductive terms e: also, like, the SCG has as many MPs as literally every party in Parliament apart from the top 3 put together, including all independents. So, "Labour Party that hates socialists" is a bit of an overstatement, that's mainly just the leadership. Not to mention the very many good eggs left in the membership. Borrovan fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 15:43
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:(not that I'm convinced there are any competent persons in a position to take over the tory party leadership) (interestingly the same guy said he was excited about the new Shadow Cabinet because he correctly identifies them as centre-right moderate conservatives, idk if that's a trend but it's a 100% sample of tories whom I have spoken to lately)
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Dec 10, 2021 10:17
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