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Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

Speaking of which, I was just making the final cuts on a Pako/Haldan deck this morning and would love some feedback. It’s got a pretty heavy landfall package because that seems fun, and because I don’t want it to just be removal.deck. Let me know what you think, and I’d definitely appreciate advice on cuts/swaps/unique synergies that work better in Pako than in most decks. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4Pqu3tOJakGwEQBZPru72A

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Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

Infinite Karma posted:

First thoughts - too many creatures.

...

More value-based landfall like Tireless Provisioner and Tideforce Elemental and Valakut Exploration seem much more useful and fun than the pure haymakers you've got in there now.

...

a bunch of 1-cmc mana dorks and Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl.

...

Also, using more specialized bits of interaction. I like Cleansing Wildfire, for example - it can kill problem lands, but people generally consider it to be fair since they can grab a basic in its place, it cantrips so feels like a win-win, and it's cheap to boot. Normally it might be too specialized for a deck slot, but you draw so many cards, it's okay to have situational cards that are basically throwaways half the time. Fogs are cool and good also, since they're cheap, and having them face-up in the fetch zone really makes people think twice about going big on an attack against you. Rancor is also really, really good - trample is huge on Pako, and it recurs itself if he gets removed somehow.

Thanks! I made a few swaps, how about this?

Removed: Phylath, Saheeli, Uvilda, Etali, Vigor, Rite of Replication, Rattleclaw Mystic, [need 5 more now]

Added: Rancor, Wild Growth, Utopia Sprawl, Tideforce Elemental, Valakut Exploration, Tireless Provisioner, Cleansing Wildfire, Shadow Rift, Fog, Respite, Heroic Intervention

I'm not entirely sure what to fiddle with to get more 1 CMC mana dorks in there - I've found in the past with 3-color commanders that I really want my ramp to try and fix me, and most of the 1-cmc ramp creatures don't do that, plus then I'm inflating my creature count some more.

I know Omnath and Avenger are suboptimal, but I haven't really played with them before so I think I'll leave them in for a game or two, then cut them for something more efficient.

Goldfishing a few hands, it felt like I had too many pieces of interaction that were sitting there dead, and not enough things to actually do, but that's probably a symptom of playing by yourself and not at a table?

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

This looks like a Lathril deck that's mostly about going wide and dropping a big fat overrun effect? Solid way to play it, and my Lathril deck is a hybrid of that and turning the commander sideways to drain the table, so take my advice with a grain of salt. That said.

Possible adds:
Cultivator of blades is really good in Lathril. Immaculate Magistrate goes well with both Lathril and Marwyn. Elvish Warmaster always feels a little slow, but I haven't played much with it. Jagged-scar archers is probably a little weak but gives you a little more defense against fliers. Nath of the Gilt-Leaf is a little off-theme for you but I have found pretty powerful in Lathril. Joraga Warcaller is great.

I've found in Lathril I really want some evasion on my commander to ensure I can get in and make a pile of tokens. So the boring commander protection stuff like Whispersilk Cloak is good, but also some rarer stuff like Fallen Ideal.

Return of the Wildspeaker is nice burst draw in green. Lifecrafter's bestiary is ok card draw too.

Possible cuts:
I'm on the fence about Elvish Clancaller. Good, but you have a fair number of anthem effects and it's probably the second-weakest after Sylvan Anthem. Not sure about Masked Vandal, but it's pretty solid removal. Not sure about Chord of Calling. Who are you tutoring for? Ezuri every game?

I'm a little confused about your price point & preferences for cards, so some info there might help.

Arcturas fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jan 8, 2022

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

I like running 34 lands and 9-10 pieces of ramp (between elves and artifacts). I try to run 8-10 pieces of interaction, probably 6-9 single target and 2-4 wipe. In Lathril some of your elves double as interaction, but my Lathril deck probably runs too few pieces, but it's been ok at a mid power table. There's tons of room to improve it, so dont' trust me. It's just what's been fun.

E: forgot to say, Vorac Battlehorns is a relatively underused piece of equipment that makes Lathril unblockable. Very fun, even if there are probably better ways to get her in.

Arcturas fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jan 8, 2022

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

TheKingslayer posted:

Seeing the elf decks makes me wish Abomination of Llanowar were a slightly better commander. My elf deck started off as that but Lathril just seemed to work way way better so I made the swap. Pretty drat satisfying to fill the table with little dudes.

I run abomination in Lathril because ELFBALL even though it's so underwhelming every time it hits the board. It makes a nice giant blocker but it's just one creature.

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

So just to clarify, if the -1/-1 counters are added one-by-one, the undying creatures will be immortal, but if more than one is added at once, they don’t come back?

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

The Shortest Path posted:

That's the thing, all of the colors get represented pretty broadly, but mostly in a pair with black. You could totally design a set that way but it would be weird.

Totally. I think you’d want to start from that framework, then remove black from almost everything and just accept that most of the fluff has a black bend to it. So tyranids would be mono-G, splash of Gruul? Eldar would be Izzet? Guard feel very Orzhov but could be Boros or just mono-W. Space marines are probably Mardu, they’re just space knights.

Maybe leave the chaos gods that are clearly about sacrificing for power with the black mix? So Nurgle is golgari.

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

An Offer You Can't Refuse seems very strong.

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

Why is the BTB deck not playing Phage?

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

Elysiume posted:

Specifically, Bullies target nonlegendary creature cards and Phage is legendary.

Booooo.

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

I'm a bad player, so can someone explain to me why this is bad but wheels are normally playable? I'm assuming it's because you usually break synergy with wheels either by playing Narset-like effects, reanimation effects, or with effects that do damage when opponents draw/discard?

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

Aranan posted:

Well yeah, I know that. Most of the decks I play do exactly that. I also play in a playgroup full of people who have barely upgraded precon level decks. It's not normally my jam, but they're my friends and I like playing with them so I try to have one or two decks that can play around in that level.

Maybe a Torbran group slug deck, just with lots of low power effects?

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

Sometimes I play an expensive draw spell on a turn where I don't have surplus mana to win instantly, and it's nice to not have to discard down to 7 either because I have board effects that scale off the number of cards in hand or because discarding to 7 would take too long and paralyze the table long enough to be annoying.

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

Eh, I completely disagree, Bust. I get why the current rules work they way they work for hybrid mana, but it's very unintuitive for newer players that aren't focused on rules technicality. You go to a new player and say - here's Commander. You have a commander, and you can only have stuff in your deck of that commander's colors. They say, cool, I have a green commander because my commander costs only green mana to cast, I will only put stuff in the deck for green mana. Then they add a hybrid mana card, assuming they can pay for it only in green, and get in trouble because it has other text on there. That's frustrating and confusing to new folks.

(And yes, I fully understand the technical rule. That color identity is actually about the mana symbols on the card, and that commanders have color identity that includes any "symbol" on their card, not just in their mana cost, and likewise cards have an "identity' that includes any "symbol" on the card, not just in their cost, and this works for everything except the except the exception of extort which even though you have the "symbol" on the card of the other color, it's different because it's a reminder text for reasons. Remember how this is unintuitive and confusing for new players?)

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

I put a craw wurm in every one of my mono-B decks.

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

I really want to build a King Darien deck now, tbh. But I already have Lathril and two go-wide tokens decks based in green might be too much. I bet if I make Darien mostly white and more anthem focused, he’ll feel pretty different.

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

I think Arcane Signet is good for the same reason Command Tower and Exotic Orchard are good-it’s good to have some basic staples for all commander decks that anyone and everyone has access to and aren’t expensive. Like, sure, they’re boring. But they’re boring like the ABUR duals are boring, except actually accessible to the public.

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Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

I would try it with any other color pair but there’s no way any are quite as hilarious.

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