Board Games 5E: I thought I was having fun but it was my brain tricking me

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Board Games 5E: I thought I was having fun but it was my brain tricking me

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Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

I taught my brother Spirit Island yesterday. He loves MTG and Slay the Spire so it was a natural transition for him. Thunderspeaker + Rampant Spread of Green = the most classic 2-player combo.

Also I just got the first two promo spirits and I�m surprised neither of these made it into the original game but BoDaN was included. Both the promo spirits seem way more fun.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2021 18:21

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 05:33

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

HampHamp posted:

The Oceania expansion doesn't add a ton of complexity, and in my opinion it really improves how the game plays. The main reason for this is that it feels much quicker to get an engine up and running - without it, games feel like they end just as you're getting going.

The main changes are a new food type, which acts as a kind of wild type, but also can score points if you use enough of it; the player boards are new and balanced slightly better; and some of the new birds have end game scoring potential. It's not too much to get the hang of, and is 100% worth it if you enjoy the base game.

Seconding. The main thing that Oceania does is remove that initial choke point of spending tons of actions on �gain food� that gets really boring. With Oceania you can start building your engine a little faster. Having more end of round goals and objective cards also helps vary the game a lot.

Also the bird cards are simply the best. Bin chicken supremacy forever.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2022 15:52

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

That�s too bad. At least they irreparably hosed the game up years ago so it doesn�t feel like too much of a loss.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2022 20:03

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

KongGeorgeVII posted:

So it looks like the Spirit Island promo bundle may be coming sooner rather than later. https://www.miniaturemarket.com/gtgsisl-ftfl.html

Darn. Wish I was aware of this before I ordered the original promo spirits a few months ago. What else does it come with? Some more fear cards, a scenario or two, and even more aspects for the original spirits? Are the two newer spirits compatible with the base game or so they rely on new tokens/events that sort of thing?

# ¿ Jan 22, 2022 16:23

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Finally managed to get Pax Pamir 2E to the table with my spouse. To date her heaviest games have been Spirit Island and Root, so I felt somewhat confident except that Pamir definitely has the driest theme of any we play (I mean, I love it, but it's not quite the same as others). Well, she took to it very eagerly and wrecked me the first three games (twice off of the first successful dominance card lol). I love games in spite of the fact that I'm not very good at them. Anyway, thanks to this thread for the rec on Pamir 2E, it rules.

I wonder how many people also assumed that you could only take extra actions off of cards that are in the favored suit. I was combining the idea of a card-based action and a bonus action for the first few games, and so it was a real mind-flip when I realized I had that totally wrong.

edit: please excuse the custom AV that some rear end in a top hat bought for me (I am not the Mel Gibson fan).

# ¿ Jan 24, 2022 23:55

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Am I missing something in Pax Pamir 2E? I�ve lost 3/3 now in a two player game (no Wakhan). In both cases my opponent was threatening victory on the first dominance card, so I switched to the dominant coalition so I could at least profit a little off the dominance card. The trouble is, there�s absolutely no room for error after that. Losing even one more unsuccessful dominance check ends the game. Losing even two unsuccessful checks in a row loses the game. What am I missing here? It seems like losing the first dominance (whether successful or not) shouldn�t put you in such a deep hole. Do I just suck at this game?

I also find that the tabula rasa that occurs after a dominance check still favors the victor since the winner will usually have the bigger court, and so they get to hit the next phase of the game running, whereas second place is just lagging behind with a smaller action economy.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2022 20:16

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Bottom Liner posted:

https://www.gamenerdz.com/spirit-island-jagged-earth

$37 is a crazy deal. This will go fast.

Wow. Thanks. Wasn�t planning on getting JE for a long time but it�ll probably never be this cheap again.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2022 20:38

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

CommonShore posted:

Jagged Earth is great and you should be getting it more or less as soon as you've figured out the base game

I've been waffling on it only because I suck pretty bad as SI (fun as it is), and the higher complexity spirits of JE are a bit intimidating to me. I do well enough with BoDaN and Oceans Hungry Grasp though, so who knows. I just can't grok the game well enough to play many scenarios or adversaries, and my picayune hot take about SI is that the on-card/on-player board text could use an editor sometimes.

edit: Not trying to be a downer, I'm super psyched to buy it. The sheer amount of stuff in it is amazing. Can't wait to try the aspects on the OG spirits.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2022 22:27

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Eraflure posted:

Both spirits in B&C are fun and strong too. Then again, the only spirit I'd call weak is Shadows without any aspect.

That being said, Jagged Earth is the best if you have to choose between the two.

I don�t know. I have really not enjoyed Sharp Fangs. I find Thunderspeaker is a lot more fun in terms of having a spirit that pushes/pulls pieces on the board.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2022 14:52

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Thats great to hear. The tokens in B&C definitely felt tacked on in a way that didn�t feel very integrated. I�m excited to get a stronger tutorial through some of the JE spirits.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2022 15:28

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Mr. Squishy posted:

It's hard to diagnose what (if anything) you're doing wrong, but that's certainly not been my experience of the game. One immediate rule you might have missed is the final scoring being doubled, which is a strat stolen from cheap gameshows to keep things competitive till the end.
I don't necessarily see that an empires favourite will have a larger court - there aren't that many Patriot cards. I guess if you're throwing away a lot of losing patriots when switching sides, that might cause it. But why would you invest so heavily in patriots if you're uncontested? And if your court is composed entirely of patriots, the smart move might be to let that scoring round pass (if you can't claw it back to the non-dominance scoring) and win the next ones.
e: it's very possible for PPam to be not for you, but I've not heard the complaint that the players can get an unshakeable lead. If anything, it's the reverse.

threelemmings posted:

The game is designed in 2p that if one person is able to hold total dominance then yes, they are in an incredibly strong position pointwise. 2p is almost a totally different game then 3p. The more normal scoring will have a first place/second place split of points either due to unsuccessful dominance or a last minute loyalty swap. Either way, when you split points it takes several rounds to secure a win, swap the playing field so that you win where they couldn't compete. In 2p that pace is just faster .

~~However, seeing as you mention switching after scoring~~ (e: I misread, but just apply this to not switching back on reset)... That is dependent on both of your tableaus. If you think dominance was close and could compete again, then staying in your own coalition means you have a better chance of equalizing points or forcing them to swap to you. Everyone on the same coalition means certain cards no longer matter, so it's worth seeing who that disadvantages more. Depending on their cards, swapping means you have to play catch up on influence, so you are often automatically putting yourself behind. That's something I'm more likely to do near the end of the round to secure a second place split as a backup plan. I would only open a round like that if I had assembled a good court that could compete in the political realm and snatch up more influence to force them to change gears from war to politics.

I also don't see how someone winning means they automatically will have a bigger/better court, that comes down to what suits you are playing. If they are placing a lot of blocks for dominance, they are playing military or econ cards, which don't grow your court. If they're econ, your military can destroy the roads. If they're heavily military, then play the political game, gain ownership of regions to tax them directly or assassinate out of the blue suit.

I feel like a lot of the success in pax Pamir is deciding what game to play based off both what you and your opponent have available If you can't beat them head to head with military, each other suit offers strong paths to victory; tax them out of the zero sum economy, assassinate their cards, etc. Flexibility is key.

Edit: I do think in a very extreme head to head game where you only score a few times, winning two rounds in a row is a pretty strong show of dominance and it makes sense to end it there, so I think the point system is doing its job.

Most games I've played 2 or 3p all balanced on the knifes edge. The runaway games usually occurred when someone got some fatal momentum that the other players didn't pivot to in time, especially good economic control of the market row. I and another player had invested heavily in military to win dominance, and my wife just sat on the sidelines and taxed away until we had no money and she just bought Afghanistan, it was amazing.

Just wanted to return to these months old posts and thank the posters for the insight. It's clear I'm only scratching the surface of the strategy in this game. To be concise, what I'm struggling to overcome is that in a 2p game, you can't survive losing even two failed dominance checks in a row, or you'll lose. So if your opponent has even one or two additional cylinders in play, what's to stop them from fairly quickly forcing two unsuccessful dominance checks and ending the game super early? Winning a successful dominance check is usually an indication that the winner had a more robust tableau (I assume). And because an unsuccessful check doesn't reset the court cards or the board state, the person who won the check is already in the lead as they approach the second dominance check of the game. Am I missing some rule, or just playing like a dumb dumb? It just seems awfully unforgiving that you can't survive two unsuccessful dominance checks, and that losing one likely means you'll lose the next one too.

On an unrelated note, I wanted to say that I have been an outspoken skeptic (and occasional critic) of Spirit Island and in particular, Jagged Earth. My criticisms mostly revolved around bad copy-editing and finding the card effects awfully hard to parse sometimes However, Bottom Liner very helpfully pointed out a 50% off deal on JE recently so I gambled and bought it. I'm pleased to report that I was extremely wrong about JE, and I am joining the thread consensus that it's absolutely fantastic. My spouse decided her first play of JE was going to be as Starlight Seeks its Form, which nearly gave me a heart attack, but she managed to assemble a really powerful spirit and we won our first game (and our second). Anyway, I couldn't be more pleased with the expansion and it's dramatically increased my appreciation for the game (and its longevity). Thank you, thread.

edit: Also please no one be offended by my AV. A lovely antisemite bought it for me and I haven't had a chance to change it yet.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2022 23:07

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

I'm a Jew and I think it's fine. As you say, in the context of black culture in America, it's not enough to simply depict black pain and suffering in a historical context (though that's often where Hollywood's focus has been)... black culture is food! Art! Music! Dance! Same with Judaism. Yes, the history of Judaism is one of constant oppression, but that doesn't have to be the defining feature of a Jewish person's identity. And using generic Jewish signifiers isn't inherently anti-semitic.

edit: Like, I appreciate that the BGG poster is asking openly whether "bright yellow colors" and collecting gold is inherently insensitive to Jewish culture but I think they're acting a little too cautiously here. Jews aren't associated with collecting gold, they're associated with collecting interest! They're thinking of leprechauns.

Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Apr 7, 2022

# ¿ Apr 7, 2022 14:37

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Llyranor posted:

Mel Gibson said it's fine

Sorry, it was a custom AV a lovely anti-semite bought for me in another thread when I was criticizing him for talking about Mel Gibson's latest movie. I haven't had a chance to change it to something else.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2022 14:40

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

potatocubed posted:

There's more faff involved than you'd think, but give me the nod and I'll put through a blanking request.

That would be fantastic, thanks so much! And thanks threadmates for alerting me to this.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2022 15:36

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Jedit posted:

They could have used the real story of the Golem of Prague as set dressing and still been OK, if they wanted to. Instead they mention Rabbi Loew, they mention Prague 1584, they mention the golem, but then instead of the pogroms they go on to talk about Loew melting down gold objects and possessing books of "traditional knowledge". So it's even worse than you're making out - it's pretty much openly implied that Loew crafted the golem to go out and "obtain" gold which is then fenced off to fund his Qabalah-reading. You know, exactly the narrative used to justify the historical pogroms. This is beyond tone deaf; it's full on anti-Semitic.

I rescind my earlier comment, I wasn�t aware of any of this. Thanks for the educational point.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2022 18:58

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

He just put up his first designer diary about it on BGG in case you didn�t see it. Not much is known beyond that.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2844889/designer-diary-1-whats-all-then

# ¿ Apr 8, 2022 19:49

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

FulsomFrank posted:

Fuckin lol I thought it was just area. For God's sake. PAX PAMIR IS A NIGHTMARE TO TEACH AND I DREAD IT.

My understanding is you still have to rule the area via tribes in order to extract bribes. Wouldn�t be the first rule I massively screwed up though.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2022 17:07

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

FulsomFrank posted:

Ohhhhh okay, phew wasn't screwing anything up.

I thought you meant if you have more cards connected to a specific region you could hit up bribes.

Right, same confusion here. Phew!

# ¿ Apr 14, 2022 19:48

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Bottom Liner posted:

The first expansion (Riverfolk) is the only essential one. The Otters really complete the base game and make a great replacement for the Vagabond at 4p. The Lizards are a weirder and harder to play faction generally, but slot in well.

If you�re still getting it to the table a lot, then add the Underworld expansion for the new double sided map and new deck, both of which are great. The factions are a side bonus as neither feel essential and one is severely underpowered despite having a fun shell game gimmick.

The latest expansion is the Marauders and is just hitting KS backers delivery so no consensus on that yet. It has two more factions and Hirelings (mini factions you can hire or sway to get new abilities) and Landmarks (map based objectives to fight over). Seems solid so far.

If I can push back on this a little bit, I think that Riverfolk might not be the ideal first expansion. If you have a solid group of players who will definitely be playing quite a bit, I think it's more tenable, but the Otters that Bottom Liner talks about rely really heavily on everyone at the table knowing the cards in the deck very well. I find that the learning process for Root tends to be a) learning your faction and the general rules b) learning the other factions over several games c) learning the deck. For this reason, if you're not likely to play the game with a recurring group, the Otters are going to be severely handicapped because new players tend not to understand in their first games what the value of the cards is.

The second expansion, Underworld, includes one faction that makes 2 player a bit more interesting, two additional maps. The new deck (Exiles and Partisans) is probably the cheapest and best upgrade you can make. The jury is still out on the brand new expansion (Marauders) which is really geared towards making the 2 player game truly feasible.

# ¿ May 11, 2022 14:06

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

That�s stupid as hell. It obviously should�ve been starburst themed.

Edit: Did anyone read Cole Wehrle�s latest designer diary about splitting Arc into two different products? It was an interesting read, but definitely left me a bit worried.

# ¿ May 18, 2022 12:37

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Has anyone received their Riverfolk Hirelings pack for Root? If so, can you tell me what the "3 Tarot Cards" listed on the back of the box are? There was nothing in mine, and Google/BGG/Youtube unboxings are of no help. It's not listed on the component list on the website either: https://ledergames.com/products/root-riverfolk-hirelings-pack

Anyway, Marauders arrived. It's beautiful. Keepers in Iron seem a bit unwieldy, rules-wise, but Lord of the Hundreds looks really clever and fun. Looking forward to finally having some satisfying 2-player play with the hirelings.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2022 02:09

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Dr. Video Games 0069 posted:

They're in the second photo on that link, it's the actual cards for the hirelings. If you bought multiple things on the kickstarter, odds are they're packaged with the other hireling cards.

Oh I see, that dimension card is colloquially called a "tarot". Got it. I'm a dummy. Thank you!

# ¿ Jun 3, 2022 02:23

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Leperflesh posted:

FedEx is actually two companies, because they use a contractor for "FedEx Ground" and that contractor suuuucks. "Regular" FedEx, which you'll get (at a high cost) for any air delivery, is pretty good in that it has union employees, decent tracking, and actually processes insurance quickly. But FedEx Ground will lose (or steal) packages and if you try to fix things, FedEx customer support can't do much because everything is at arm's length.

Wow. That is so interesting. Thanks for sharing that tidbit.

# ¿ Jun 7, 2022 18:07

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Please no more tokens. I can barely deal with strife and badlands

# ¿ Jun 15, 2022 00:03

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

I just finalized by Backerkit order for Arcs. Thanks to the thread for teaching me how to get around Kickstarter. On Backerkit I pledged $100 and have to pay $24 for shipping though? Cmon

# ¿ Jul 18, 2022 01:23

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Very weird value proposition. Why didn�t they just print a new version of the base game with a simplified rule set and some even simpler spirits? This feels like a really weird appendage.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2022 21:48

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

LifeLynx posted:

That's basically what this is.

Not really though. One of the best things about SI is it�s sold at a great price point, and has so much stuff in it that you can play it forever without getting bored. This game has half as many spirits as the base game, no adversaries, no scenarios etc. I totally get that the purpose is to be entry-level, but I just feel like you can find ways to package �entry level� SI into the original game so that when people inevitably graduate from �entry level� they�ve got everything they need to keep playing without having to buy a whole new game.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2022 22:21

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

dwarf74 posted:

Because Jaws of the Lion sold like hot cakes and was wildly successful.

Looks like a similar model.

I�m completely ignorant about that game, so I will cede the argument!

# ¿ Jul 21, 2022 22:37

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Sorry to have to ask this but what does IK stand for?

I too very much appreciate Mayveena�s thoughtful posts in this thread.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2022 23:35

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

I didn�t buy Pax Pamir 2E so my spouse could embarrass me every single time. I would like a refund*

*so I can buy John Company 2E.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2022 02:14

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

swampcow posted:

I knew I had to build but I needed places to build in. There were entire turns where I devoted myself to getting space against just one opponent and I would completely fail. Revolutionaries would blow up one of my spots just at the beginning of their turn and the birds would push lots of warriors and gently caress my poo poo up.

Yeah that frustration you feel is the fairly high learning curve. It's definitely not a game that can be understood after a single play. You'd need multiple plays of each faction before you can start to get into relatively basic strategy. Of course that doesn't have to be your thing, but if the game feels "unfair", that's normal and it's something you overcome with experience.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2022 03:42

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Something Else posted:

At the end of wingspan, you go egg mode. It doesn�t really matter what your board looks like or what�s in your hand. Chances are really good your most profitable move is going egg mode

No idea how playtesting (or the major expansion) didn�t fix this. It�s so boring.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2022 18:28

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

JoeRules posted:

2nd expansion, Oceania, curbs it fairly hard - the new player boards rebalance the values. Which means for me, the new boards are a must, but they are NOT easy to teach to beginners - the colors are muddier and harder to read, and there's significantly more icons.

I don�t find Oceania addresses the final round egg-race at all. I know that like, food is easier to get in the early game but I don�t see how they addressed the final round stuff at all.

It also amazes me how dumb the end round goals can be because of randomization. There�s way too many times that the first or last goal are at the complete wrong point in the game. I regret that I bought the base game and Oceania to appease my spouse but it�s just not an interesting puzzle.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2022 01:24

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Bottom Liner posted:

6 is terrible, not least of all because you�ll end up having like 30 minutes or more between your turns. Root is basically 3-4 only with 4 being much better unless you play very specific faction combos at 3.

5 and above is pretty unplayable. However unlike Bottom Liner I actually think 3 is the sweet spot. 2 and 4 are good too but 3 strikes the best balance for me.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2022 22:00

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Bottom Liner posted:

which is why having the Otters in play makes every faction stronger (and why they're so strong).

Conversely, this is why I never bother playing as Otters, because I�m always playing against people with limited experience who undervalue the cards.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2022 03:19

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Sorry for more Root chat, but what is this? Some crazy new Root thing or is Patrick Leder just borrowing some assets for the development of some other game?

https://twitter.com/PatrickLeder/status/1575633699369992192/photo/1

# ¿ Sep 30, 2022 00:55

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

I�m feeling some fomo and thinking of submitting a late pledge for Shikoku 1889 despite having no one to play with. This would be my first 18xx. The game can apparently accommodate two players but does it actually work at that count? Or do you really need 3+ to have a good experience?

I�m also feeling so envious of everyone in thread who just got JoCo. I couldn�t justify it based on my friend group

# ¿ Oct 13, 2022 23:09

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

FulsomFrank posted:

If you wanted to try it out and see what you think, go to 18xx.games and try a 2P game of it with your victim. My wife and I play on there all the time (or at least used to before we had a kid) and you can get a feel for the system and whether you'll like it or not. Another one you can try is 1846 that even has special 2P rules.

Playing in person is much, much more different though and you cannot discount the tactile benefits of being able to struggle to find the right tile, fiddle with them as you try and upgrade something surrounded by others tiles, and slap down a bunch of certificates into the bank causing your opponent to groan as the stock collapses and they're the sole owner of a soon to be trainless railroad. I admit that sometimes I miss the super simple route calculations that .games provides because goddamn if it doesn't slow down our games.

The previous Grand Trunk release is the best looking of the 18xx's I own by a long shot (the AAG stuff is very clean and simple except for 1860 thanks a lot bud) and Shikoku is shaping up to be lovely too.

Just need Josh to get off his rear end and commit to printing The Old Prince so I can stop trying to figure out how to PNP it.

Very helpful info, thanks! The Shikoku KS did point me to the 18xx online platform but I found it a bit inscrutable without having put much effort in. It really does seem like a fascinating system and nothing else in my collection really overlaps with it. Ah well, I may just add it to Brass, JoCo, Dune, and a few others as games I�ll play in some other life.

On a separate note, had a great game of Spirit Island playing as Many Minds and Grinning Trickster. They are super synergistic with claw tokens (or paw tokens, as I call them). One thing caught my eye though. On the player board for Many Minds it says a fear victory is possible in a way that made that seem unusual and all of a sudden I�m now wondering if people often win by completely clearing the board? Perhaps they just meant it�s possible with Many Minds to exhaust the fear deck, rather than just winning at Terror level 3 as we always do.

Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Oct 15, 2022

# ¿ Oct 15, 2022 16:34

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Hey thanks. I�ve been too timid to start scaling but will take this under advisement.

Ps Volcano and Rampant Spread of Green are insane together

# ¿ Oct 18, 2022 02:25

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 05:33

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

From the Backerkit video it looks like they�ve upped the quality of the spirit panel art, which is nice. Some of the spirits have always had frustratingly mediocre art imho.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2022 20:13

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Board Games 5E: I thought I was having fun but it was my brain tricking me

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