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DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Batterypowered7 posted:

So I've felt that with deck builders like Legendary, where there's some scheme that you're trying to race while everyone is trying to get their decks sorted, the fewer the players the better. Two players that have had two turns a piece will have better decks than four players that have only had one, and a easier time dealing with the baddies.

Is Arkham similar in that regard? Do fewer players/investigators have an easier time since they can get their boards set up more quickly, or does the flow of the game balance out better with the number of players/investigators?

I haven't played Legendary, but it sounds like they deal with player balance by having each player effectively get 1/N of the turns? Arkham isn't like that at all; instead each player gets all of the turns, and there is N times as much stuff to do in each scenario - the bad things you have to deal with, and the goals you have to accomplish, scale with player count. It plays well with 2 to 4 players/investigators. There are ways that smaller groups have an advantage*, but there is also value to be gained from a larger group with more diverse decks. (I wouldn't recommend 1 player just because of the high variance; if you want to play solo, play 2 investigators simultaneously.)

*gently caress Ancient Evils

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DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
Man, Ariadne's Twine and Pnakotic Manuscripts is fuckin broken.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Orange Devil posted:

More broken than Eon Chart?

I mean, pass every skill check vs. get two extra actions per turn. idk, it's a bit of a tossup. But also, I didn't notice Eon Chart used secrets, holy poo poo. I guess I missed an opportunity to be even more broken.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Orange Devil posted:

Eh, costs actions to use Pnakotic Manuscripts though, unless you're using it just for encounter card protection. Maybe I'm undervalueing it.

Ah, well, it helps to be Daisy.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Anonymous Robot posted:

One of the people I play with asked me to tune up their deck after a couple of disappointing sessions. There were a number of problems with it, but the funniest and most notable one was that they misread Carolyn Fern’s deckbuilding requirements (they understandably missed that Carolyn can take level 0 weapons) so their damage was based on using charisma and churning through as many guard dogs, beat cops, and Brother Xaviers as legally permissible. Sociopath Carolyn!

Ironically, tuning up their deck meant making Carolyn a more expert manipulator: sifting out the less competent allies and adding in cards like Leadership and Stand Together to allow her to leverage fellow investigators instead, and giving her a flask and a machete if all else fails.

Ideally, she would have two copies of shrivelling (she’s currently built for wit+might, but the might part is a bit of a crutch to get her baseline okay with the machete whereas her wit is extremely strong) but Jim is still clutching the last level 0 copy of that at present.

sounds like they built a Tommy Muldoon deck on accident. But my real question is why are they trying to build Carolyn Fern as a damage dealer when she has 4 intellect and access to seeker cards?

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
Get yourself some Charisma, Peter Sylvestre, and Jessica Hyde, so that you never die. Five of Pentacles after that. Then stack as much trauma as you want. Calvin's weakness is secretly kinda good to draw, early in the campaign, until you have ~3 of each trauma, since that sorta sets you up without having to find an enemy to hurt you. I would prioritize getting mental trauma first, since that lets you contribute to getting clues in the early game before any enemies show up.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Nebrilos posted:

-Combining dream diary and Amanda Sharp lets you draw more cards and have high stats

Dream Diary triggers after Amanda Sharpe, so you can only do it once per two rounds (if you forego half of your dream diary triggers). Is that better than just holding some sort of investigation tool instead, putting more good skills in your deck, and spending your xp elsewhere? idk, it might be, but it's certainly a weird interaction.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
I've played Harvey a bit and enjoyed doing shenanigans with Forbidden Tome and a 12-card hand. I wouldn't say that it's great, but it is good enough to be viable. You can cram a lot of card draw in a Seeker deck. And it's easy to soak the 2-4 damage from the weakness if you use the damage version of Forbidden Tome (I had one of each from Shrewd Analysis) and you pack some allies who you don't mind dying like Research Librarian.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

KPC_Mammon posted:

Most people I know even go so far as to draw three weaknesses, set one aside, and then pick one of the other two at random.

The house rule my playgroup usually uses is similar, but draw 4, set two aside, random from the remaining two. It really cuts down on the high-variance "my weakness screws over my entire deck strategy" problems that you can have, e.g. getting Amnesia in your Harvey Huge Hand deck, or Doomed in your Patrice deck. Yeah it's technically cheating to make the game easier on average, but it's a co-op game and we don't give a poo poo.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
Personally I love Hawk-Eye Folding Camera. Once it gets going, it's very powerful, and if you have any checkless clue-getting, then it's especially easy to set up. Often scenarios start with a location or two that have low shroud anyway, and Daisy has base 5 book, so you'll be fine.

With Jenny being a dedicated fighter and Carolyn packing Shriveling, you probably don't need to worry about evasion.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
Hell yes Arcane Research and Down the Rabbit Hole synergies confirmed.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Orange Devil posted:

So anyway, as a class of cards these are interesting for mulligans. If you take 1 Dilemma in your deck, you can guarantee not getting it into your opening hand by forfeiting your mulligan if you do not start with it in hand, or mulliganing it if you do. Forfeiting the mulligan is a rather steep cost though. If you take more than 1 Dilemma in your deck and you draw one of them in your opening hand, you can not guarantee not mulliganing into another. These cards are fully dead if you get them in your hand, which is also a steep cost if it happens in your opening hand.

Other than the 2nd copy of a Tarot card and Emergency Cache when you don't need money, we haven't had cards that could be fully dead yet have we?

So this type of card has the potential to be "pay 2xp, reduce your starting hand size by 1" or "pay 2xp, you may no longer mulligan". Which doesn't feel like it is worth the benefit of the best case scenario of Heed the Dream.

I am confused - why are we giving up our mulligan just to stop this from being in our opening hand? Do we have some reason to think that Revelation doesn't trigger in opening hands?

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
My first thought is seekers, since seekers have almost all the enters-play ability allies. Specifically my first thought was Jeremiah Kirby, but unfortunately this and Calling in Favors are odd and the other enters-play allies are even. Hmm.

Comedy option: Priest of Two Faiths in a Bless-based Wendy Adams deck.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
Ghastly Possession seems really good even in generic, non-doomy mystics. It even can get grabbed by Arcane Initiate.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Nephthys posted:

Rules question: I'm running Norman Withers through Dream Eaters and I have his weakness on the top of my deck, that says I can't interact with my deck in any way except to discard the weakness. I draw a swarming enemy where I'm supposed to use my cards from my deck as swarming enemies. Does the swarming keyword just fail and no card go under it?

Also, Livre d'Eibon can't swap weaknesses, right? That would be overpowered, right?

I would say that The Harbinger does stop swarm; it's a weird accidental benefit, but the wording seems pretty clear to me.

And Livre d'Eibon can't swap a weakness that's on top of your deck, because it's either The Harbinger or something you should have already drawn via Norman's forced ability. I believe that it can swap a weakness from your hand to the deck, which would then force you to re-draw it. So if you have The Tower or something, you can use Livre d'Eibon as a card-draw engine, I guess, so long as you have that weakness in hand.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
Just the other day my playgroup was lamenting how there aren't any Survivors who can investigate well. Well, that's fixed now.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Golden Bee posted:

Lockpicks or thieves kit Wendy? Magic Patrice? Failure Stella?

Ashcan Pete too. Yeah, there are some survivors who can do a hybrid/support type role that includes some investigating, but what I meant was that Darrell is the first one who can be the main dedicated investigator. The sort of character who could hold their own in a 2-player team with Mark Harrigan or Nathaniel Cho or something. All of the options before Darrell can't really get more than 1-2 clues per round, at most, and some of them also struggle with high-shroud locations.

It just stood out to us because every other color has at least one good dedicated investigator. Even Guardian, the class focused on fighting, has Carolyn Fern.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
The huge nerf to Crisis of Identity is fuckin awesome. gonna build so many Lola decks now.

Lmao at the Cyclopean Hammer nerf. I don't think it'll be particularly noticeable. I was hoping the taboo list would give me a good reason not to take it in every guardian deck forever.

Also, just finished an Edge of the Earth campaign where one player was playing cursey alternate-Wendy and we had max frost tokens, and another player had Voice of Ra and Ritual Candles. . . really coulda used those mutations a bit sooner.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

CitizenKeen posted:

Each player can buy the Investigator boxes but the table can split the cost of the [campaign] box.

90% of the time, two core sets plus one of each investigator box is plenty for an entire table of four people, because mostly people's decks don't overlap cards (with the exception of a few staples from the core set). so you don't need every player to buy their own set of investigator cards, either.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Nebrilos posted:

If I get Interwoven Ink on The Raven Quill, and attach The Raven Quill to Old Tome of Lore, and that Old Tome of Lore is on Abigail Foreman, can I use Old Tome of Lore myself, then use Abigail's reaction ability to use Old Tome of Lore again, and then use Interwoven Ink (reacting to the second Old Tome of Lore activation) to ready Abigail and then use's Abigail's reaction ability to react to the 2nd usage of Old Tome of Lore to use it again, in order to use Old Tome of Lore 3 times per turn for only 1 action?

I don't think so. There is only one instance of "resolving a -> ability on the attached tome" for Abigail to trigger off of, and reaction abilities are limited to triggering once per event. This is because Abigail does not repeat the "-> ability on the attached tome," only the "effects" of that ability (the stuff after the colon, which does not include the "->" part that makes Abigail trigger). So Abigail doesn't trigger herself, even if you could resolve Raven Quill in between, which is another timing question that I don't know the answer to.

I could be wrong, though. It's a super confusing interaction.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
Here's another rules question: if you're playing Vincent Lee, whose deckbuilding has 0-3 seeker and 0-5 "heals damage", can you use Shrewd Analysis to upgrade 2x Strange Solution to 2x Restorative Concoction for 4xp? Shrewd Analysis says "from among the eligible options (you must still meet all deckbuilding restrictions)." It's a little unclear but to me it seems that if only one version is allowed by deckbuilding then it's the only "eligible" option to be randomed from.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
Also it's limited to 1 per deck.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
For player cards, you can just lump each class's cards together sorted by xp cost and type; that's pretty much good enough. My friend who owns this game in our group has a big two-column box with all the player cards in there, with print-on-demand dividers that you can get somewhere on the internet I assume, but the dividers aren't super necessary, especially when your collection is still relatively small. You do not need to sort player cards based on which campaign box/scenario pack they came in; you can use any player card in any campaign, and you'll want them all together for deckbuilding purposes.

Encounter cards, you have the cards associated with each scenario, plus the non-scenario-specific "generic" encounter sets for each campaign, plus the base game generic sets (i.e. Ancient Evils, etc.) which are included in many scenarios. So the way my friend has it, the base game sets are in one pile at the front, then each campaign is separated out with the non-specific sets in a pile first, then the campaign scenarios divided up, then the next campaign's generic sets, and so on. You really don't need a divider for each generic encounter set because they are generally only 2-6 cards; you can just thumb through a pile of ~30 cards and pick out the ones you need for a given scenario. For each scenario, you'll have the scenario card (with the chaos token effects), the act/agenda decks, some locations, whatever scenario-specific encounter cards there are, and any other scenario-specific stuff in one big pile; all of those things should use the same scenario set symbol (for example, scenario 1-A of The Dunwich Legacy, Extracurricular Activity, has a bubbling erlenmeyer flask as its symbol).

When setting up for each scenario, you first check the setup instructions and fish out the encounter sets that you need. First, the scenario itself, with its scenario card, act/agenda decks, locations, and whatever else. Then, you pull out that campaign's generic sets and thumb through for the ones you need for that scenario. Then, you pull out the base game generic sets and thumb through for those (if applicable; not every scenario uses base game sets). The only tricky bit here is that the scenario setup instructions will not tell you which encounter sets are from that campaign box and which ones are from the base game; after a little while you'll get used to recognizing the symbols of the base game sets. Once that's all assembled, you can put the box away and proceed with the rest of the setup instructions.

Also, be aware that ArkhamDB exists for searching up cards and checking for rules clarifications and such.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
Father Mateo is a mediocre character, even with the 5xp. His main ability is a once-per-game trigger - a really good one, but still low-impact when averaged over 12-15 rounds or whatever that a typical scenario might take. His elder sign is really good, too, but again not a hugely impactful thing. He's not a completely bad character, though; 5xp can go a long way. I don't think his deckbuilding is bad (even without the Blessed stuff from Innsmouth); I find all-mystic deckbuilding ok after playing Jacqueline Fine a few times. But I would say he's less powerful than, say, Marie Lambeau or Luke Robinson, spellcasters with 4 willpower but actual good and useful abilities, and all of the above are less powerful than any 5-willpower mystic. Ultimately, he's down in the D tier with Jim Culver. That's not to say you shouldn't play as him - there are no characters in Arkham that are so bad they're unplayable (with one possible exception). My friends and I have won or nearly won campaigns that include every character, I'm pretty sure, with maybe one exception.

These are not sorted within the tier, but here's a quick and dirty tier list of my opinions on characters:

https://tiermaker.com/create/arkham-horror-the-card-game--investigator-tier-list-715138

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Orange Devil posted:

I cant take your list seriously given Bob and Monterey Jacks positions tbh

please explain to me why they're good because in my experience Monterey Jack seems like Trish/Ursula but with bad deckbuilding and a worse ability, and Bob Jenkins doesn't do anything particularly useful past turn 3 of the scenario (apart from level up into a big money deck, but any rogue can do that so he's not special).

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
So I'm doing my 4th-ish playthrough of The Scarlet Keys, and I did Marrakesh for the first time. It loving sucks.

Why is the objective basically 100% fighting? There's a million enemies, they all need to die or else they hunt civilians, and advancing the act is primarily "do a million damage to an enemy that heals itself constantly." Myself and the other main clue-getter on the team spent much of the scenario with basically nothing to do. Yeah we can rescue civilians (and we did) but that's a huge action sink and doesn't advance the main goal and doesn't help the fighters who were struggling to survive and deal damage effectively. The scenario has Grasping Hands and the Cornered treachery that also does physical damage, and then a boss that does 2 damage (maybe 3 with that one attachment) and is quite hard to evade. And DJ Khalid shows up and does another 2 damage attack while the fighters are locked down fighting Amaranth. And the tablet token's effect is "take 1 damage or kill a civilian." So the whole scenario just feels like a damage race. In the end, we got 3 xp (1 for Amaranth and 2 for rescuing civilians) and two out of four characters got physical trauma. One of the trauma was from the tablet token on the very last shot against Amaranth, where we had exactly 1 more civilian saved than dead, and Tommy Muldoon decided he'd rather get defeated than lose out on the 2xp.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
So with the addition of Parallel Ashcan Pete and his Replacement cards, there are now four cards in the game with type "Instrument." For a long time one of my friends has been low-key obsessed with noted terrible card, Flute of the Outer Gods, and after playing in a campaign that happened to have both Patrice and Jim in it, he'd suggested that we need to form a proper band as soon as they release a fourth instrument. And then, just a couple months later, it happened! So we decided to get the band back together last night. Patrice Hathaway on violin, Jim Culver on trumpet, Ashcan Pete on guitar, and Amina Zidane (for some reason) on flute - a godawful band composition imo. Also a godawful arkham composition; you may note how there's 2.5 mystics and 1.5 survivors, so we had to be very careful about not stepping on one another's toes while deckbuilding (or else having to print out proxies for things). And we had no one who was particularly good at evading or doing intellect checks; fortunately Patrice's spring-loaded Pocket Multi Tool and Granny Orne (3) helped shore up those.

We put the Blues Brothers soundtrack on, and went on a road trip tour to get the band together, i.e. we played a standalone session of Horror in High Gear (scenario 5 of The Innsmouth Conspiracy). The Chicago PD and Illinois nazis were played by fish-cultists and Carrie Fisher was replaced with a giant tentacle monster. We were exactly as successful as the Blues Brothers in that we also got to our destination with zero time to spare and a huge pile of enemies on our tail. Unfortunately, the band never quite fully materialized because Flute of the Outer Toot was literally the bottom card of Amina Zidane's deck.

Parallel Ashcan Pete, with at least 7xp in Makeshift Trap, is incredibly broken. You get the 3 damage explosion, the ability to add or subtract 1 time, and the ability to play it at an adjacent location. There is a player action window in between the hunter enemies move step and the enemy attacks step, so during that window you use the guitar to shunt whatever monster is giving you trouble into the bomb adjacent. You maybe get a resource or a horror heal too. At end of round, it takes 3 damage. Parallel Pete's ability lets you recycle it and repeat this plan every single round. Pretty loving good! The Terror of Devil Reef was a bit of a struggle after getting some unfortunate pulls of the "if you fail, hunter enemies move" token, but once we were able to evade it and drive away, I dropped two Makeshift Traps on it to stun it, and from that point on we were far enough ahead of the spawning enemies that the rest of the mission was a cakewalk (except that our time was beginning to run out). I think Horror in High Gear in particular was a fantastic scenario for this deck in general.

I also put Grievous Wounds, "Fool me once. . .", and Barricade in the deck to go with Parallel Pete's ability, but only ever used "Fool me once. . .", and only used the ability on it once. As a meta consideration for the Malfunction treachery, I put in Alter Fate, but I never got to do the combo of Alter Fate-ing a Malfunction and using "Fool me once. . ." to cancel the next Malfunction. And I brought Timeworn Brand and some +fist allies to supplement my enemy-handling, but I never had to use it. Honestly, the entire deck is just Makeshift Trap. It's so loving good. Might be some trouble in campaign mode as I'm not sure how well you can kill enemies prior to getting 7xp, but if you take In the Thick of It and Refine, you can theoretically set up us the bomb for 4xp on scenario 1, so maybe it's ok.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Cicadalek posted:

So I have a rules question that I couldn't find any definitive answer for through Google. If you try and draw from an empty deck, then you shuffle in your discard pile and take the horror. What happens when you discard from an empty deck? This came up in a game we were playing, specifically this Circle Undone location card.

I had 4 cards left in my deck, so if I trigger an effect that tells me to discard 5 or more, what happens? We ended up just saying it's treated the same as drawing, so I decided to trigger the 10 card option and discarded 4, shuffled in the discard, then discarded 6. (I was also Yorick playing Short Supply so this seemed appropriate).

I can also see an argument for triggering the effect but only discarding as many cards as you have left in the deck. But I couldn't find any rule that specified it either way.

The rulebook does not mention reshuffling your discard into deck for any reason other than drawing. Additionally, this FAQ entry:

FAQ posted:

Q: As Lola Hayes, what role do I switch to if I resolve Crisis of Identity and the discarded card is a multi-class card? What happens if my deck is empty and no card is discarded?
A: If the discarded card is a multi-class card, you may choose which of those classes to switch your role to. If no card is discarded, your role stays the same and is not switched.

implies that discarding does not reshuffle.

So for that location, if you have 4 cards in your deck, I would say you can't activate it because you can't pay the cost, and even if you could, it wouldn't do anything because the effect depends on at least 5 cards having been discarded.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Golden Bee posted:

When you pay a cost from the encounter deck, it’s generally the most you can. Same as if Ally took five damage from snakebite but only had two HP.

Revelation and forced abilities don't have "costs"; when you're forced to suffer a bad effect, you do as much of it as you can (as in your Snakebite example). The encounter card Cicadalek linked is a location and it has a triggered ability on it. A triggered ability (abilities formatted as "cost: effect") can't happen if the cost isn't fully paid; at least, that's my interpretation of the following passage from the rules:

rules reference posted:

Some triggered card abilities are presented in a “cost: effect” construct. In such a construct, the aspect preceding the colon indicates the ability costs that must be paid and any triggering conditions that must be met to trigger the ability.

(bolding mine)

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
New FAQ and Taboo list

Some notable taboo changes: Deserved nerfs to Runic Axe, Shed a Light, and Research Notes. David Renfield and Jeremiah Kirby are free of their chains, as well as Higher Education, Streetwise, and Scrapper. Pathfinder down to +1 chained xp. Persuasion and Interrogate work on nonhumans, yay. Daredevil nerfed; classic case of "there's a gamebreaking combo? Better nerf the rogue card". Trish nerfed to not auto-evade elites. Geared Up apparently needed a nerf for some reason. And the most WTF change of all, a massive nerf to Power Word, which now requires a willpower 3 test to use, loses Mercy, and requires 1XP to use Cower.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
It's mostly worth using if you play a lot. You get used to just remembering. It's handy to have a printout of the taboo list though.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Anonymous Robot posted:

The Arkham Cards app also offers a taboo lookup for any given card you’re viewing.

I don’t play with the taboo list because, as you’ve identified, it’s cumbersome. It also generally disempowers cards rather than powers them up, and I don’t need any help losing Arkham Horror.

That being said, if I felt like I had to take Milan Christopher in every deck possible and it was keeping me from trying other allies, I might glance at the taboo and just house rule that card. But I’m not there yet.

They've recently been doing a better job of making the taboo list not just nerfs. There are quite a few taboos that power up cards, now, including some that really open up options for cards that were basically unplayable before (e.g. Telescopic Sight). Personally I like the taboo list because it lowers the gap between "optimal" deckbuilding and "fun/creative" deckbuilding, so it feels less bad to get experimental with your deckbuilding. I would never want to go back to the old Key of Ys, for example, which for a while was in every single campaign because it's simply too good not to take.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

LifeLynx posted:

Wow these are more heavy-handed than usual; I wonder if the change in designers changed taboo philosophy also.

The main one that feels heavy-handed is Power Word. It makes sense that they wanted to introduce risk and reward to a card that otherwise doesn't have it, but goddamn. It already took a ton of XP and actions to make it good, and now you also have to invest in willpower boosts and/or spend more actions to make up for failures. Also RIP Carolyn Fern and Vincent Lee Power Word builds. I have a hard time imagining anyone in my playgroup ever playing it, now.

Daredevil (0) also I suppose feels kinda heavy-handed, but that card already sucked except in game-breaking combos, so it doesn't feel like anything was lost. (when the gently caress are they just going to taboo Wendy's Amulet already)

Rythian posted:

It also ends up buffing some stuff making it playable! Scroll of Secrets, Telescoic Sight and all the 'symbol' cards are some standouts.

When I was searching my mind for what cards got buffs that turned them from unplayable to playable, I somehow forgot Scroll of Secrets! Pretty good card with the taboo, absolute dogshit without it.

Also of note: Signum Crucis is still kind of mediocre even at 0xp but it's playable in certain decks. Springfield M1903 and Lola Hayes's mutations are cool too.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Golden Bee posted:

They did taboo Wendy’s amulet. Events that enter play still go back into deck instead of you discard. No more infinite hiding spaces or tripwires.

Well that's technically an errata not a taboo, and it basically fixes an oversight in the rules. Wendy's Amulet is still broken as hell, and has caused multiple rounds of errata/taboo, now including Daredevil, without ever really addressing the core of the problem. Which is that Wendy's Amulet lets you control what you draw, and draw the same events over and over again. For example, 2x Easy Mark gets you infinite money in a single action if you have the Amulet and an empty deck.

I wouldn't mind (my playgroup almost never plays the same deck twice anyway), except that it bothers me when it affects the taboo list. Daredevil+Yaotl was an easy, consistent way of emptying her deck without suffering her signature weakness, but it was hardly the only one, and you can still do hella broken poo poo if you can do it another way, so it's not really solving the problem definitively. And I think it's a shame that the single most broken card in the game is causing taboos that gently caress over Winnifred Habbamock instead of addressing the actual problem. Daredevil was a pretty bad card except in specifically Winnifred or Wendy, now it's a really bad card even in Winnifred. Why must she suffer for Wendy's sins?

This is probably not the sort of taboo that they're likely to make, but something like tacking on "Forced - If your deck has 5 or fewer cards in it, take 1 horror and shuffle your discard pile into your deck" would cut out the insane combo potential while still retaining most of the "fair" functioning of the amulet.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Nion posted:

The way I understand it, failing by 3 would still be 1 instance of 3 damage, because there is no point in time where you have failed by the first point but haven't yet failed by the second or third point. For Diana's weakness, on the other hand, there is technically a point in time where you have chosen to take a horror for the first card under her but haven't yet chosen to take a horror for the second or third card, thus it's 3 instances of 1 damage.

Ubik_Lives posted:

Yeah, it’s if you get to choose between two or more options, each choice is a different instance. If you get hit for a determined amount, you get hit for one instance of that amount.

Primpod is referring to a thing where you choose between two or more options. Treachery effects such as Inexplicable Cold, which says "Test agility (4). For each point you fail by, you must either choose and discard 1 card from your play area or from your hand, or take 1 damage." The wording for how the choices are made is pretty much identical to Terrible Secret. You make a series of choices, one for every point failed; for Terrible Secret, you make a series of choices, one for every card beneath Diana Stanley.

faq posted:

Whether an effect is a “single cumulative effect” or “separate effects” depends on whether the effect forces the investigator to make a choice.

This seems to pretty clearly include Inexplicable Cold as well as Terrible Secret.

What I am now particularly worried about is stuff like Terror Unleashed, which says "take X damage or horror, divided as you wish". If X=2, for example, is that 2 separate choices between "1 damage" or "1 horror", or one "single cumulative effect" chosen from among "2 damage", "2 horror", or "1 damage and 1 horror"?

I think I'm going to say that the ruling specifically applies to things that say "for each [thing], [choice]" and not to things like Terror Unleashed, but it's not exactly clear.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
I'm mostly concerned about "I've had worse. . ." which is one of my favorite cards for any character with 0-2+ Guardian access.

Fortunately from a few searches on arkhamdb it seems like it's not really going to affect that many things; things that say "for each [thing] either [x] or [y]" are pretty few and far between unless you're playing Diana Stanley. But when it does matter, it's going to feel bad.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
A friend of mine is fond of using Act of Desperation to throw his lightsaber (enchanted blade) so he can pretend to be darth vader.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
That is correct; the only thing an exhausted card can't do is be exhausted again as a cost.

Akachi can, for example, use Angered Spirits to exhaust Shrivelling, moving one of its charges to Angered Spirits, and then use Shrivelling to attack an enemy in the same round, because Shrivelling's attack action does not require exhausting. Contrariwise, if she uses Angered Spirits to exhaust Suggestion and move a charge from it to Angered Spirits, she can no longer activate Suggestion's -> ability, since it has "exhaust Suggestion" in the cost.

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
The advanced trumpet is much stronger but is that worth having a weakness that's quite likely to blast you for 5 damage and 5 horror all at once? That's a tall order to soak.

Parallel-Front-Jim doesn't seem very appealing to me. What is so good that you need to put more charges on it? Most spells, you'd rather just be Akachi and have 5 base brainpower. The curse-spells (armageddon etc.) don't need this ability to get charges back, either.

Parallel-Back-Jim is where the good stuff is, probably. Gotta theorycraft a bit on what his 9 ghost friends should be. And you gotta prepare to deal with that extra bonus weakness; maybe have Stray Cats in the main deck. Hmm, it says it may be evaded "as if it were engaged with you"; that means String of Curses works, right? You can also put Patrice's best friend Miss Doyle in your ghost deck, but good luck getting it at the right time together with the weakness AND not getting stuck with Augur. And I definitely wouldn't play Parallel-Back-Jim with the Advanced trumpet/rhapsody - you already need to be prepared to soak extra to deal with the flipping of The Beyond. Still, even with all the drawbacks, the raw power of having free allies sounds good to me.

*Meat Loaf voice* One out of three ain't bad. :confuoot:

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DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Ubik_Lives posted:

Actually, I think we both misread the card. It’s a non-bless, non-elder sign symbol token. So all the bad symbols. So it might hit you for two or three damage and horror, but unlikely to be near the full five.

Oh jeez, you're right I missed that word. That's way less bad than I thought. Still very dangerous in some campaigns, and I would rate it as still pretty unplayable if your group uses curses a lot. After doing the math, I don't think my general conclusion changes much.

A standard bag, e.g. Dunwich, has 17 tokens, including 6 non-elder-sign symbols (two skulls, cultist, tablet, squid, tentacle). Here's the odds:
  • 0 damage: (11 choose 5) / (17 choose 5) = 7.47%
  • 1 damage: (6 choose 1)*(11 choose 4) / (17 choose 5) = 32.00%
  • 2 damage: (6 choose 2)*(11 choose 3) / (17 choose 5) = 40.00%
  • 3 damage: (6 choose 3)*(11 choose 2) / (17 choose 5) = 17.78%
  • 4 damage: (6 choose 4)*(11 choose 1) / (17 choose 5) = 2.67%
  • 5 damage: (6 choose 5) / (17 choose 5) = 0.10%
I would want to be prepared to take at least 3 damage and 3 horror at all times. That's a pretty tall ask, but doable. Even then, you might get blasted for 4, which is a loving lot.

The situation gets much worse if there are just a couple more symbols. Let's say you've just played Faustian Bargain, and there are now two curses added to that bag. Or, maybe you've got two frost tokens in EotE, or maybe you're in Innsmouth where you just get that many cultists/tablets/squids.
  • 0 damage: (11 choose 5) / (19 choose 5) = 3.97%
  • 1 damage: (8 choose 1)*(11 choose 4) / (19 choose 5) = 22.70%
  • 2 damage: (8 choose 2)*(11 choose 3) / (19 choose 5) = 39.73%
  • 3 damage: (8 choose 3)*(11 choose 2) / (19 choose 5) = 26.49%
  • 4 damage: (8 choose 4)*(11 choose 1) / (19 choose 5) = 6.62%
  • 5 damage: (8 choose 5) / (19 choose 5) = 0.48%
Pretty significantly worse. It's getting to the point where I'd want to be prepared to soak at least 4, or I would be desperately wanting to add bless tokens (which normally suck rear end and aren't worth your time) to dilute the draw. That's getting to the point where your deckbuilding (and the deckbuilding of your friends, who can't rely on curse token cards) is going to be severely warped just for the privilege of playing this improved trumpet.

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