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Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

shame on an IGA posted:

This whole thing is Eve Online poo poo, the plan is to link up in Kyiv and make the world's costliest Z O R chain

FC: PutinGodLegend

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Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1499568908202049542?s=20&t=6PdIO0oaG9J7mvYn2z723g

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Marshal Prolapse posted:

The man has a huge set of loving balls. This is the first time he’s been back in his office since invasion.

https://youtu.be/STN4_VmHPzA

Nice touch with the camera cut when he sits down behind his desk.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
https://twitter.com/kaylatausche/status/1503507235389022212?s=20&t=A5cLjUnv5lmo6K4HcA1HJQ

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1504214696303505411?s=20&t=r6YI9CPXUegKW5LckDGNgQ

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Raged posted:

I have a feeling a Polish peacekeeping mission would look a lot different than a US one. Like, kill every Russian that moves different.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's not gonna happen regardless, though the hawks sure are crowin' for it.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
I would die if I tried to deploy a bridge, I know that much

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
Significant NATO policy changes itt

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_193613.htm?selectedLocale=en

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Blind Rasputin posted:

Even more wild was the time when an 18 year old civilian pilot, with little more than simulation training and the help of a Vietnam veteran in the air force reserve, was able to pilot a fully armed and loaded F-16B into Arab airspace to rescue his father. Apparently despite being rejected from the Air Force academy a short while before his father was shot down and captured, this 18 year old kid splashed multiple MiG-23s and destroyed an enemy fuel depot and airfield all before finally landing to pick up his dad. Hell of a story.

You forgot to mention that he made a killer mix-tape for his journey

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
Mysteriously the part of the MiG-23 was played by the Kfir

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

It's just a name that sounds cool and tough and actiony. There's no greater symbolism involved.

The symbolism is MURICA

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

WaltherFeng posted:

Putin being misinformed by his advisors is starting to sound more and more like that scene from the film Der Untergang.

It just goes to show, you get out what you Putin to it

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
Tiny thermal exhaust port right below the main port? Javelin.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Literally a song they might have played, if I know my goth/fetish clubs:

Out with the old war
In with the new
Dressed to the nines
Atomic chic looks so good on you
The zeitgeist trend for a new generation
For a new radiation
And everyone laughs
And everyone laughs

This is the new world
This is your time
Down in the basement
Dancing again
Everybody get ready to sing
When the lights go out
When the lights go out
Come join the party at club vertigo
Move to the searchlight songs
Everybody get ready to clap your hands
When the lights go out
When the lights go out


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z2h4vif7wk

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

Thank you for introing me to VNV. That is some good stuff.

They and a few other artists birthed a whole subgenre in the early 2000s, as other posters have noted. It's good stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurepop

I listen to this song a lot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF5mf4LV7Jw

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Elviscat posted:

I had my first real date at a VNV Nation concert about..... 20 years ago. After getting hooked on it from a Juno Reactor cover on my dad's computer, then getting my date hooked.

I'm surprised to see so many fans ITT, they're not well known outside Germany, still.

Disagree, they're hilariously well-known in very very specific sectors of American society; VNV has countless "everybody to the dancefloor for their Favorite Song" anthems in goth clubs across the US. I've seen them play live six times :v:

Alan Smithee posted:

ngl when I first saw their aesthetic I was like "these guys aren't nazis....right?"

I can see why you'd think so, but thankfully no. The aesthetic is derived from a wider tradition in industrial music that more or less started with Laibach's antifascist culturejamming in the Neue Slowenische Kunst, generalized into a conscious decision by antifascists to pollute or corrupt fascist cultural signifiers by appropriating them - much as a Nazi might appropriate Thor's hammer, say - and then parodying or criticizing fascism through the work in ways that Nazis would find unpalateable. Slavoj Zizek does a terrible job of explaining it here:

https://deterritorium.wordpress.com/2017/08/20/why-are-laibach-and-nsk-not-fascists-by-slavoj-zizek-1993/.

In other words, you don't just have to let Nazis steal your culture or your aesthetic preferences, you can steal it back and make it about being gay and doing crimes. Possibly against the State!

Like, you'd think Rotersand look and sound pretty fashy, but then you listen to the lyrics and it's all

Dancing on the hearts of fascists
Dancing on hot ashes


Strong Burnin' Sherman energy itt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40tDkChvtGA

Elviscat posted:

Ukraine Thread: Russia's doing so bad we're taking about obscure 90's electronic band.
QFT

Kesper North fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Apr 7, 2022

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
I knew Iron Sky would be good when I saw "soundtrack by Laibach"

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Elviscat posted:

I got to meet Ronan Harris when I had to show up 4 hours early to a concert in Seattle because of bus schedules when I was a teen, and he took a smoke break from sound check, circa 2007, he's amazingly friendly and gregarious and willing to make small talk with an awkward teenage fan.

i was almost certainly at the same show lmao

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Elviscat posted:

El Corazón? Are you a 6'6 person with dreadlocks, platform boots and a bustier? Because they're at every VNV show in Seattle, and very recognizable.

No, but I know exactly who you mean.

I would have been a relatively ordinary looking 6' fat dude in black cargo pants and a band t-shirt.

quote:

That was the show with the opening act spraying air freshener in people's faces, where they almost got in a fight with the crowd, lol.

OH MY GOD YES I WAS AT THAT SHOW, THOSE loving ASSHOLES


Their name is Teddy, IIRC

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

RFC2324 posted:

Teddy sounds awesome

Even more extra than you are currently imagining

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Times of Israel is straight up calling this 'the new Auschwitz':

https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-new-auschwitz-russians-accused-of-burning-bodies-to-hide-mariupol-atrocities/

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

bees everywhere posted:

I guess we'll also see a Marshall Plan once this is all over, assuming Ukraine wins. JFC, 21st Century, show some originality!

edit: How did this monkey's paw get in my pocket?

Can you imagine what 2022 would be like if we'd done a Marshall Plan on Russia in 1991

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

A.o.D. posted:

Can you imagine if Russia would have let us do it?

Yes? It's not like we really tried.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Crab Dad posted:

Crimean sea bases are going to leased to the US for a dollar a decade by then end of this war.

The geopolitics of the next decade are gonna be a loving trip and a half

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

I enlisted in the Reagan 80s and we trained expecting to get squashed by the Soviets (I was in the 82nd). Now this...I have almost no words.

DekeThornton posted:

I doubt it. It was a corrupt dictatorship back then as well, with all the same flaws. Just with a different ideological coat of paint.

SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

Prior to the invasion I figured they were at least competent enough to not just fire shells for funsies into evacuation centers with zero military value

I swear to god I'm not a tankie, but what if... just what if... the entire threat of Russia was exaggerated just a teeny tiny bit for political and economic reasons to the benefit of Raytheon et al., and we didn't have to be this poo poo-scared of them the whole time because they were always this hollow

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Alchenar posted:

You should go over to Ukraine and tell them that Russia is a paper tiger and their war isn't such a big deal.

e: like Russia is six weeks into launching the largest conventional war seen in Europe in decades, 'hey they probably aren't a real threat to anyone' is not the take.

We're not Ukraine. Germany and France are not Ukraine. We're part of NATO. All this really tells me though is that they can take on a single European state on their own border and do a lot of damage, yeah. That isn't shocking. But it does kind of put lie to the notion that they could prosecute a "total war" against all of NATO - you know, the scenario we all spent our lives expecting and in some cases training around - without resorting to nuclear weapons. It sure makes Red Dawn scenarios look, frankly, hilariously implausible. It also seems to suggest, based on what we're seeing in Ukraine, they'd have been able to make a mess of Poland but would also probably not be able to advance on western Europe without experiencing logistical collapse.

So why were they touted as such a vast threat to the world when they're obviously really struggling to take a single European state? The obvious answer is, because our intelligence assessments said they were a bigger threat at that time, and that even the best intelligence isn't perfectly accurate. It could also be because the Russian military didn't get completely hollowed out until the post-Cold War period. But we also know that intel estimates can be cherry-picked and inflated, as with the Iraq War.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have 'fought' the Cold War. But we should also ask ourselves how often political inflation of intel estimates has occurred, and maybe do some historical research to try and figure out exactly when and where our estimations of capability departed from reality.

How big a threat is Russia to western Europe now that it has suffered all these losses and can't replace its advanced weapons systems due to sanctions? Can we meaningfully call it a threat to western Europe?

Note: I'm not saying we should stop arming Ukraine - far from it - but again, it seems that is the nuclear arsenal that makes Russia a threat to any peer that doesn't share a border with it, not its conventional military. They are literally displaying right now that they don't have the logistical capability to fight that war, or even bring it to NATO's Cold War borders. So how long has that been true for?

All good points here:

Xakura posted:

Underestimating your enemy is the classic mistake, and military intel and planners are understandably wary of making it.


Cythereal posted:

A common theme in military history is this:

Side 1: They could not possibly be that stupid.

Side 2: Is in fact that stupid.

Even if you have a reason to think Side 2 is in fact that stupid, you do not ever assume or prepare for them being that stupid if you can help it. Because preparing for a competent, well-equipped, well-prepared enemy and then crumpling a paper tiger is an infinitely preferable outcome to preparing for a batch of complete morons and then getting your poo poo wrecked because your intel was wrong.


That Works posted:

Yeah I mean you definitely don't ever want to underestimate there but I do believe exaggerating the threat to get more money sent to the MIC is definitely a thing as well.

I can't find it now but someone linked a scene from a movie I hadn't heard of before and it was basically some Russian operative who was being forcibly interrogated and stated "Russian military isn't a threat, never has been a threat, your entire economy / leadership needs it to be one for them to stay in power" or something like that... anyone remember what that show was? Can't recall for the life of me. It got linked around here early into all this.


Murgos posted:

I'm not sure it would make that much difference in practice. You pretty much have to assume that your opponent will be able to use their published capabilities competently.

Like, history is replete with failed/dead military leadership who dismissed their opponents out of hand because it didn't fit their world view that they could be competent.


Xakura posted:

Underestimating your enemy is the classic mistake, and military intel and planners are understandably wary of making it.


FrozenVent posted:

The bomber gap and missile gaps were 100% this, their conventional capability I think is more of a surprise. That being said I’m sure some people figured it out when they started paying soldiers in potatoes and such.


Arrath posted:

They were, demonstrably, pretty capable circa 1945. The question is, when did they degrade to the poo poo show we see today?

Kesper North fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Apr 8, 2022

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Cythereal posted:

We don't know. Fundamentally, we probably never will. That kind of detailed level of knowledge of Russia, its military, their operations, and their history is probably simply not available and never will be available, not even to Russia itself.

This is an insightful reply. If Putin is getting bad intelligence about the state of his army, chances are good that we are too.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

PookBear posted:

Russia's military would be fairly easy to fix as well. They have the hardware, its just internal rot.

Also a good point; IIRC Ukraine actually did exactly this after Euromaidan and we're seeing the results now.

psydude posted:

The problem is you're posing this question with the benefit of hindsight, which allows you to ignore everything we thought we knew or suspected up until February 24th.

True.

psydude posted:

The systems that Raytheon et al developed were so expensive that they couldn't engage in a "if you build it they will come" Silicon Valley style product development strategy. The MIC has undoubtedly pushed the US to buy expensive poo poo, but the systems we have now are still the result of government issued requirements.

Yeah they just misdeliver so badly on stuff like LCS and the Zumwalts that sometimes I forget the government even issued any requirements.

Kesper North fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Apr 8, 2022

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Tyro posted:

I hate to say it but in hindsight these Team B guys apparently had the wrong idea.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_B

(Mentioned in the six part Behind the Bastards/Dollop crossover on Kissinger that just aired)

Oh, interesting, I didn't know about this. I do have to wonder to what degree the outside experts were influenced by industry, to their detriment. It kinda seems like an opportunity for "regulatory capture" of analysis if the right shills got on the team.

Stravag posted:

Good luck to the couple and i hope it turns out to be more than just an enjoy what we can while we can marriage

I hope so too, but I feel like it's pretty much exactly that for all of us these days.


Bangin'.

At first I thought this was about the fact that the AK is pointed straight at the person in the seat in front of the cameraman.

Kesper North fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Apr 9, 2022

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
Youtube videos taking apart classified Russian military technology, why not

https://twitter.com/UkraineNewsLive/status/1513204186434920451?s=20&t=mtLk7KXlE3UhOdtd7gOY3g

Apparently it uses an off-the-shelf Canon camera.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

BIG HEADLINE posted:

I'm honestly most interested in how they got targeting data, unless the Russians were stupid enough to be operating within visual range of the coastline because "not like they have anything that could threaten the MIGHTY FLAGSHIP OF THE BLACK SEA FLEET, amirite?" :smugissar:

Presumably we have some air, space and undersea assets that can help spot a large surface vessel with powerful radar and radio.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
https://twitter.com/RajaGili/status/1514390065408929793?s=20&t=3E0tCstT9cRq0F5NYS0i_Q

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1514763143892791297?s=20&t=_WDln5nrIG3oPNr2x7Y0rw

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Ship is hosed up, OP

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Soylent Pudding posted:

Going to toss out their that a lot of these cybercrime gangs aren't so much Russian as Russian speaking and have had members from other eastern bloc states. The Conti ransomware gang was one of the first to publicly declare support for Russia. Except it had Ukrainian members who promptly leaked their entire source code, infrastructure map, and years worth of internal communications.

Also notPetya was summer 2017 and was a wormable wiper. It was introduced through a supply chain attack against basically Ukrainian TurboTax. Foreign multinationals like Maersk didn't have good internal segmentation so once it got into their Ukraine offices it jumped to the rest of the worldwide corporate network. https://www.wired.com/story/notpetya-cyberattack-ukraine-russia-code-crashed-the-world/

The powergrid attacks were December 2016 and involved the industroyer malware. An attack by the next gen industroyer malware, industroyer2 was recently blunted: https://www.welivesecurity.com/2022/04/12/industroyer2-industroyer-reloaded/ and https://thehackernews.com/2022/04/russian-hackers-tried-attacking.html.

Also if you want more reading about Russian attacks against the energy sector: https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ncas/alerts/aa22-083a

The Mandiant and Dragos writeups on the new ICS malware toolkit are worth reading, it's pretty neat and it sounds like someone has built a Metasploit-like tool for ICS attacks. I want a copy real bad because it'd be a great learning/teaching tool :negative:

https://www.mandiant.com/resources/incontroller-state-sponsored-ics-tool
https://www.dragos.com/blog/industry-news/chernovite-pipedream-malware-targeting-industrial-control-systems/

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

shame on an IGA posted:

Just gonna throw out there that OMRON specifically plugs "programmable from the edge!" as a key selling feature of their latest line of PLCs.

:wtc:

Fortunately I've never seen any of their kit in the wild, the world runs on Siemens S7.

Ahhh, Siemens:

https://drivesncontrols.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/6736/Siemens_PLC_vulnerability_is_cyber-attackers_92__91holy_grail_92.html

This was last year, but I know very few organizations that actually upgraded their PLCs after this was announced.

I should note that this vulnerability was at least discovered by a firm Siemens retained to improve their products (Claroty), so they are at least trying - but Siemens has by far the most known vulns against its PLCs compared to any other vendor. (This is more a reflection of Siemens ubiquity than inherent product flaws.)

It's also possible that a Siemens module exists for PIPEDREAM already which exploits this, given PIPEDREAM's modular design, but it wasn't in the sample obtained by CISA.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Defenestrategy posted:

Does Metasploit not have ICS modules built in? Never had the need to dig all that deep into what comes pre-loaded.

it does, but it sounds like this tool has some interesting capabilities that aren't in metasploit. admittedly that's just based on the relatively surface level information in the mandiant/dragos briefings, maybe it's literally ripped from metasploit code for all i know

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

TheWeedNumber posted:

That’s hot. Also thank you for the well wishes friends.

Worth noting that these missiles are brand new and of Ukrainian design. This was their first operational use. The Ukrainians also cleverly used a Bayraktar drone to distract the Moskva's crew, who appear to have not even bothered to deploy the systems which would have defended the ship from the missiles before they smacked dead center amidships. They breached the hull at the waterline, set off an ammunition explosion, and likely destroyed the main damage control compartment, which prevented the crew from mounting an effective response to the damage.



The Russians claimed she sank in a storm (in 6 knot winds and calm seas).

Ukraine is also now getting fighter parts and ammunition from NATO, along with a giant heap of other toys including artillery and drones. (Which continue to demonstrate that they have Arrived as a battlefield weapon and that air defense has some catching up to do in this regard).

Russia has failed to take Kyiv and is now focusing on Donbas and the east, laying waste to the city of Mariupol where only a small holdout of Ukrainian forces remains in a steel plant on the edge of town. They have brought the Wagner Group mercenaries to bear and are trying to recruit mercenaries from elsewhere.

Meanwhile, Russia lacks the ability to replace many of the expensive weapons systems it has lost due to sanctions.

Putin insists on pressing on.

Kesper North fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Apr 21, 2022

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Kith posted:

please correct me if i'm having a bad brain moment but did russian troops seriously loving booby-trap children's toys

This isn't even remotely close to new for them

https://www.csmonitor.com/1987/0916/eafgh.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/3sj67z/til_that_the_russians_dropped_boobytrapped_toys/

I can't find any stories, but it seems like something they might have done in Syria too.

And the fact that they're doing it in Ukraine now is well documented:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-russians-are-determined-to-kill-our-civilians-and-children-too-they-booby-trap-teddy-bears-939ndsf35

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Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
how is he going to drop the ISS on us now

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